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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:40 PM
Original message
US Healthcare vs the rest of the world

<snip>

First let’s take a look at the very young. How well does the US health care system take care of children and mothers, both before and after birth? The following table gives a few indicators:
______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
Notes: Infant mortality rates from OECD, showing 2001 data; other data from the WHO, showing data for the year 2000.

The US does worst, or tied for worst, in every measure. The US health care system simply does not do a very good job in caring for the very young.

So how about the elderly? The following table gives details about the length and quality of life that senior citizens can receive in developed countries around the world.

_________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________
Note: Data from year 2001. Source: WHO.

Not only is the US’s life expectancy at or near the bottom of the industrialized world, but Americans spend more of their shorter lives in poor health (as defined by the WHO).
<snip>


http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/04/performance-of-us-health-care-system.html


<snip>

Meanwhile, according to author Terry Boychuk, the rest of the industrialized world, including many developing countries like Mexico, Korea, and India, viscerally understood that "private insurance would cover all necessary hospital procedures and services; and that even minimal protection beyond the reach of the poor, the working poor, and those with the most serious health problems." 1 Today, over half the family bankruptcies filed every year in the United States are directly related to medical expenses, and a recent study shows that 75 percent of those are filed by people with health insurance.2

The United States spends far more per capita on health care than any comparable country. In fact, the gap is so enormous that a recent University of California, San Francisco, study estimates that the United States would save over $161 billion every year in paperwork alone if it switched to a singlepayer system like Canada’s.3 These billions of dollars are not abstract amounts deducted from government budgets; they come directly out of the pockets of people who are sick.

The year 2000 marked the beginning of a crucial period, when international trade rules, economic theory, and political action had begun to fully reflect the belief in the superiority of private, as opposed to public, management, especially in the United States. By that year the U.S. health care system had undergone what has been called "the health management organization revolution." U.S. government figures show that medical care costs have spiked since 2000, with total spending on prescriptions nearly doubling. 4
<snip>



http://www.yesmagazine.com/article.asp?ID=1503
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Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Living in Japan here - if they tell you "there will be lines, no choice of doctors..."
They are LYING. With my US HMO, I had to wait forever in waiting rooms, even with an appointment because US doctors always overbook, my portion of the premium was HUGE and I had the choice of VERY FEW doctors under the HMO.


Here in Japan, you can go to ANY DOCTOR, WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT with practically NO WAIT TIME, great sevice, low copays.

I would NEVER want to go back to the US HORRIBLE System, NEVER!
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. if we could only be so lucky as you
that is what we have to be working toward
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. But, but...
Edited on Thu May-10-07 08:31 PM by warren pease
They tell us that universal single payer would kill freedom of choice... in sharp contrast to the current system, which only kills actual people and leaves those sacred free market pieties intact.

As if anyone in his or her right mind gives a damn about ideology while they’re busy dying on a urine-soaked, feces-stained mattress because they exceeded their lifetime benefits cap and couldn’t afford a hospital bed where they might get treatment, or even a hospice where they might at least die with dignity.

These days, the only way to assure quality health care in America is to have lots and lots of money. Simply put, in America, because of the high cost of access to quality health care, the rich tend to heal and the poor tend to die.

A study released in May 2002 by the Minnesota-based research firm Institute of Medicine documents the obvious: Approximately 18,000 Americans die each year because they lack the basic medical coverage necessary to get proper health care. Only in America is lack of private health insurance treated as a capital crime.

Meanwhile, CEOs at the top 15 managed care companies made an aggregate $63.3 million in salary alone in 2001. They, along with eight additional high-level execs at these same companies, held stock options worth $109 million at the end of 2001. Doesn't that just warm your market-driven heart?

In a more enlightened time and place, these profiteering vampires would be rounded up and clapped in stocks in the public square, where the citizenry would pelt them with rotten vegetables for a week, then run them out of town on a rail, after first tarring and feathering them. Here, though, they're regarded as titans of industry and testimonials to the American way of market-driven medicine.

And maybe the sickest thing of all: Through pensions and money market accounts and IRAs and brokerage accounts and 401-Ks, nearly all Americans with some kind of savings have a piece of the action. That's the true genius of the American health care system; it co-opts and corrupts everything it touches, and makes each of us complicit in our own demise.

See you in the great hereafter, although the longevity stats suggest I'll be there for quite a few years before you arrive.


wp
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Brilliant analysis! Absolutely brilliant. Who says money can't buy health? In the US it can.
Edited on Thu May-10-07 09:34 PM by BrklynLiberal
:thumbsup: :applause:
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Yep, here in Kiev....
You can find doctors who run series of tests, instead of giving you a slip of paper and sending you to a pharmacy. And they still do house calls !!!

Have a friend here in Kiev from Canada too, and likes the health care here better too. According to her, many Canadian doctors take the "slip of paper" route over running tests too.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. slips of paper
According to her, many Canadian doctors take the "slip of paper" route over running tests too.

That's interesting -- doctors running their own tests. I'm genuinely curious. I get those slips of paper (in Canada) all the time. They send me to one of the numerous labs in town for various tests: a blood chemistry set at one lab, which also does electrocardiograms or whatever those things are, a mammogram and chest x-ray at another. An MRI and the like requires a hospital appointment. I don't really know how most of those could be done in a doctor's office.

The labs, like the doctors, are private enterprises, and their fees for services covered by the public plan are fixed and paid by the plan directly.

(Hmm, maybe "slip of paper" was referring to prescriptions. I find doctors here generally order tests whenever they're indicated, rather than just prescribing.)

I did have a client once (me ex-immigration lawyer) whose proposal, for immigrating to Canada as a self-employed person from the US, was to set up a business training and equipping doctors to do simple blood tests in-office. The equipment involved something centrifugal, but other than that I don't recall what the specific testing a doctor could do was.


Anyhow -- I once again want to congratulate DUers on the depth and breadth of their understanding of and appreciation for the concept of universal single public payer healthcare. Five years ago, this just wasn't the case. You folks have informed yourselves and one another (well, shucks, we Canadians have helped a bit) to an admirable extent.

For anyone looking for info about the Cdn system designed for readers in the US, I like this site:
http://www.newrules.org/equity/CNhealthcare.html
(articles in left-hand column)

This thread has some links:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1942277&mesg_id=1942277
but unfortunately the one to "collected health care topics" at DU seems to be dead.


You people are doing a great job. I hope you can drag your party along with you. Of all the political issues around, this is one of the most important to ordinary people, and one that people do get in their gut. That's what you've got on your side, to counter the people with lies and lots of money to spread them.

My hope arises from almost pure altruism, of course -- although the fact is that your system continues to be a threat to ours as long as it is what it is now. The profit-making US health insurers have long been poised at the border waiting for a chink in the single-payer system that free trade would allow them to climb through.

(Footnote to acknowledge that there are lots of chinks in the system already, since it mainly doesn't cover prescription drugs and dental, in particular.)

Keep spreading those facts, and good luck!

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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's time.
Universal Single Payer Health Care is the only sensible choice. We are LONG overdue.

Great post BrklynLiberal. Thanks.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. TYVM. It is something that upsets me to no end.
Edited on Thu May-10-07 09:36 PM by BrklynLiberal
They hypocrisy and downright lies of Big Pharma and the rest of those who have a ve$ted intere$t in the current system is sickening.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Economist on health care in France:
May 20, 2004

FRENCH HEALTHCARE....The Economist provides a capsule summary of healthcare in France:

Its hospitals gleam. Waiting-lists are non-existent. Doctors still make home visits. Life expectancy is two years longer than average for the western world.

....For the patient, the French health system is still a joy. Same-day appointments can be made easily; if one doctor's advice displeases, you can consult another, a habit known as nomadisme médical. Individual hospital rooms are the norm. Specialists can be consulted without referral. And while the patient pays up front, almost all the money is reimbursed, either through the public insurance system or a top-up private policy.

For family doctors too, liberty prevails. They are self-employed, can set up a practice where they like, prescribe what they like, and are paid per consultation. As the health ministry's own diagnosis put it recently: "The French system offers more freedom than any other in the world."

And despite the Economist's scary headline, which proclaims that "crisis looms," the French system provides this service to everyone in the country and does it for less than half the cost per person of the U.S. Even if they decide to raise taxes to cover a growing deficit in their healthcare fund (the subject of the Economist's article) their costs will still be less than half ours per person.

Now, there are undoubtedly drawbacks to the French system. They probably have fewer high-tech machines than we do, and the comparative cost figures may be skewed by the American love of elective procedures. Still, there would have to be a lot of drawbacks to make their system less attractive than ours.

So why not adopt it? Well, that would be socialized medicine. Can't have that, can we? After all, everyone knows that when you socialize something it automatically declines slowly into anarchy and uselessness. Right?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Distressing to know patients pay up front!
I didn't know that---still would stop poor people from getting care.

sigh... it's always something.

Other than that, the French health care system is #1.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. But WOW, is it PROFITABLE!
Ask Bill Frist. Ask Jeb about his new job at Tenet.

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kdmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Just looked up the Jeb Bush thing
That asshole makes the same amount in 2 days at Tenet that I make in a whole year. THAT'S why our healthcare SUCKS.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. And those are the U.S. averages
Edited on Thu May-10-07 07:56 PM by MountainLaurel
If you look at the figures for particular areas, say the east-of-Anacostia areas of Washington, D.C. or the former coal-mining towns in West Virginia, you'll find that places like Angola and Bangladesh come out ahead in terms of indicators like infant mortality.

Averaging those locales in with places where the rich have personal physicians and receive "concierge service" does not provide an accurate picture of healthcare in the U.S.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great post! We need UHC urgently!
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not to mention the toll on the American psyche
If you get seriously ill in America and you don't happen to be rich, you're basically screwed.
With that prospect hanging over them, no wonder so many people are bitter and desperate.
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. singlepayer health care is the only reasonable option..........
Edited on Thu May-10-07 09:32 PM by RedEarth
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. HR 676 Read it, understand it, promote it. We will get Universal SinglePayer
Health Care when we all DEMAND it, and not a moment sooner.

Is your Representative a co-sponsor? If not, start applying pressure!

H.R.676
Title: To provide for comprehensive health insurance coverage for all United States residents, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Conyers, John, Jr. (introduced 1/24/2007) Cosponsors (70)
Latest Major Action: 2/2/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Health.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COSPONSORS(70), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)
Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 1/24/2007 Rep Baldwin, Tammy - 1/24/2007
Rep Brady, Robert A. - 2/27/2007 Rep Brown, Corrine - 4/17/2007
Rep Carson, Julia - 1/24/2007 Rep Christensen, Donna M. - 1/24/2007
Rep Clarke, Yvette D. - 2/16/2007 Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 1/24/2007
Rep Cohen, Steve - 2/7/2007 Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 1/24/2007
Rep Davis, Danny K. - 1/24/2007 Rep Delahunt, William D. - 2/12/2007
Rep Doyle, Michael F. - 3/21/2007 Rep Ellison, Keith - 1/24/2007
Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 1/24/2007 Rep Farr, Sam - 1/24/2007
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 1/24/2007 Rep Filner, Bob - 1/24/2007
Rep Frank, Barney - 3/7/2007 Rep Green, Al - 1/24/2007
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. - 1/24/2007 Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 1/24/2007
Rep Hare, Phil - 4/30/2007 Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 1/29/2007
Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. - 1/24/2007 Rep Honda, Michael M. - 1/24/2007
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 1/24/2007 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 1/24/2007
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice - 1/24/2007 Rep Johnson, Henry C. "Hank," Jr. - 2/13/2007
Rep Kaptur, Marcy - 2/12/2007 Rep Kildee, Dale E. - 4/17/2007
Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. - 1/24/2007 Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 1/24/2007
Rep Lee, Barbara - 1/24/2007 Rep Lewis, John - 1/24/2007
Rep Loebsack, David - 1/24/2007 Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 1/29/2007
Rep McDermott, Jim - 1/24/2007 Rep McGovern, James P. - 1/24/2007
Rep McNulty, Michael R. - 1/24/2007 Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 1/24/2007
Rep Miller, George - 1/24/2007 Rep Moore, Gwen - 1/24/2007
Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 1/29/2007 Rep Napolitano, Grace F. - 2/27/2007
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 3/21/2007 Rep Olver, John W. - 2/16/2007
Rep Pastor, Ed - 1/24/2007 Rep Payne, Donald M. - 1/24/2007
Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 1/24/2007 Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 1/24/2007
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 2/6/2007 Rep Ryan, Tim - 5/8/2007
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. - 4/23/2007 Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 4/17/2007
Rep Scott, Robert C. - 1/24/2007 Rep Serrano, Jose E. - 2/7/2007
Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 2/12/2007 Rep Sutton, Betty - 3/27/2007
Rep Towns, Edolphus - 1/24/2007 Rep Udall, Tom - 2/27/2007
Rep Waters, Maxine - 1/29/2007 Rep Watson, Diane E. - 1/24/2007
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 1/24/2007 Rep Welch, Peter - 5/3/2007
Rep Wexler, Robert - 1/24/2007 Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 1/24/2007
Rep Wynn, Albert Russell - 1/24/2007 Rep Yarmuth, John A. - 2/27/2007


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR00676:@@@P
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. So happy to see Jerrold Nadler's name up there.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Great! Give him a big THANKS!!
That's why I posted that.... :hi:

Now, you can feel sorry for those of us who have someone like....

..............

(shhhhh)


tancredo.....


:cry:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. oy. So sorry. Hope it is only temporary.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Short video explaining SinglePayer
http://www.grahamazon.com/sp/whatissinglepayer.php

Share this with everyone, and lets get people a bit more knowledgeable!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. MUST SEE! I've seen it before; the word needs to get out about this video.
I'd recommend this post if I could; this is a great video and needs to be spread far and wide.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Be my guest, and do the spreading! Start a thread with just the video.
It gets very frustrating that we have such a good resource so easily available, and few people have actually seen it, or share it with others.

:shrug:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Done!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. Thanks! I think you got a few more to watch it!
:bounce:

BTW, have a date for the Prom?

:rofl:
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Brilliant! Simplest, most ingenious analogy I've seen on single-payer.
Thanks for the link. I joined the organization to read the posts, but unfortunately there aren't any yet. Maybe I'll have the honor of the first post.

And I'll pass this on to all the people I usually bore with this stuff.


Thanks again for finding this site and posting the link.


wp
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Your a bunch of communists!
There is a place for government and a place for the market. This is not the place! :sarcasm:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. ANYONE watch the short video in #13???
No comment on it?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. yes!
It's good. Email it to people. That's my comment!

I'll think I'll email it to my annoying new-found long-lost distant cousin in Ohio. (Our great-grandmothers were sisters in Northamptonshire -- I've discovered genealogy, and a humongous number of long-lost distant cousins.) She works in the health care system. And the other day she sent me this piece of shit:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp

-- not the snopes article, but the original vicious racist right-wing screed, falsely attributed to Robin Williams, whose genuine quote was actually mocking the vicious racist right-wing assholes who think things like that, and they didn't get it. Anyhow, I'd finally had enough, after tying for months to gently tell her that we didn't really agree on things and it would be better if we followed that "no religion or politics at the dinner table" rule, and I sent an email back, not just debunking it, but using the words vicious and racist and right-wing a few times. Haven't heard from her since ...

It's good. Email it to people!

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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. Single-payer vs. universal "coverage"
It's important to understand the difference, and to note that Kucinich is the only candidate pushing for single-payer. The rest are all talking about some variant on the idea of "universal coverage," which is just code for the continued involvement of the for-profit insurance industry and of for-profit hospital chains. We need "universal access," not universal coverage, and single-payer is the most cost-effective and fair way to produce universal access. Single-payer has the following characteristics:

One nation, one payer.

Everybody in, nobody out.

No exclusion or penalties for pre-existing conditions.

No bills from the doctor.

No bills from the hospital.

No deductibles.

No co-pays.

No in network.

No out of network.

No corporate profits.

No threat of bankruptcy from health bills.


Anything that doesn't meet these criteria is not single-payer. And expanded or universal "coverage" will almost certainly fail simply because it invites the single most destructive element in the current mess -- for-profit insurance carriers and medical centers -- to play a role in any new "reforms." That's insane simply because any plan that includes these money sucking parasites will by definition carry the seeds of its own destruction.

They may play nice at first, promising to mend their rapacious ways and keep costs down, but once they're inside, they'll revert to form. And that shouldn't surprise anyone; that's exactly they way they're supposed to act. The only legal requirement for an American for-profit public company is to make a continual best effort to maximize shareholder equity. That's it, and it's enforced by the threat of shareholder lawsuits -- and there are literally tens of thousands of such suits filed annually -- alleging that a given public company in which they hold stock violated this legal requirement by not doing everything possible to boost the stock price. So even if these bastards wanted to act like decent corporate citizens -- unlikely, but I suppose not 100 percent impossible -- they could only do so if they could also demonstrate that those actions helped inflate the value of its outstanding shares.

So... beware of the phrase "universal coverage." Also be very skeptical when some pol talks about "affordable coverage," since "affordable" is in the wallet of the beholder, and there are many millions of Americans for whom nothing is affordable anymore. The first and most important question to ask there is, "define affordable." I predict a deafening silence, followed by something that sounds like Porky Pig on helium.

So, as usual, the truth is only visible after translating the "positioning" garbage and looking closely at the nature of the plan hiding behind the happy talk. And believe me, you don't want "coverage" in any shape or form. It's only another version of the same hideous scam, and will continue to produce the same shameful statistics discussed in the OP.

For more information on this and just about anything else you can think of related to universal access, single-payer systems, case studies of American heartbreaks and international success stories, and a lot, lot more, go to the Physicians for a National Health Program web site. They're at:

http://www.pnhp.org/


wp

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. One correction. HR676 is CONYER'S bill--DK is a co-sponsor.
Edwards is very close in what he proposes, and, I believe, is "convinceable". He listens well. ^_^
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Yeah, I noticed that in another post in this thread ...
But didn't Kucinich also have his own bill specifying single-payer? I thought I remembered he had introduced something like that, but I could easily be mistaken. And if Edwards dumps his universal coverage rhetoric and starts promoting single-payer, I'll defect to his camp immediately.

I'm a very strong Kucinich supporter -- even gave him money, which is rare for me. He's the only one running who mirrors my points of view on almost all my hot-button issues. But I also realize he's unfortunately "unelectable," in large part because he's at least within shouting distance of most of my political views, which begin at Chomsky and Zinn and take a left from there.

But that's not even what he'll be criticized for: it's going to be his height, his hair, his "un-presidential" demeanor, and all the other usual crap the political handicappers blather about so that they don't ever have to confront an actual issue.

So at least Edwards is being taken a bit more seriously by these fools. I really don't have much use for Hillary or Obama. I love Gravel, but he's even more unelectable than DK. Of the rest, I think Edwards would be the easiest to support. I actually think he's a decent guy, although that may just mean he's a PR genius. But I'll take my chances with him, and better yet if he does in fact come around to single-payer.


wp
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. No, Kucinich claims to have a health care bill. It's HR676. That's Conyer's bill.
Glad to hear what you said about Edwards. Since he's much more likely to have influence than Dennis, here's the deal: it's up to ALL of us to push Edwards towards HR676!!! I does listen to people, which is more than we can say for some of the others.

As far as that goes, there are now two threads here on Universal Singlepayer health care. You don't notice either one of them getting much interest.

People SAY they're concerned about health care, but my experience in working for a local health care organization and what I see on DU doesn't bear that out.

So, it's up to us.

Are we serious about it or not?

Do we call and write our Reps and do everything we can to get them to sign on as co-sponsors to HR676?

Do we do everything we can to educate others about HR 676, including using the video I posted?

Do we push Edwards?

How serious are we about it?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. "universal, single public payer"

Those are the four words to remember!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. HR 676 would be the other words. ^_^
:hi: :toast: :hi:
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. okay, you made me look
I get antsy just looking at the bizarro things that pass for health insurance progresses in the US, but I went looking for this one. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00676:">HR 676

... well, it's relatively short, as laws go.


"medically necessary services" -- nice. Copied straight from the Canada Health Act. ;)

Compare and contrast, if you like:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-6/whole.html

These are the five pillars of the Canadian law:
7. In order that a province may qualify for a full cash contribution referred to in section 5 for a fiscal year, the health care insurance plan of the province must, throughout the fiscal year, satisfy the criteria described in sections 8 to 12 respecting the following matters:
(a) public administration;
(b) comprehensiveness;
(c) universality;
(d) portability; and
(e) accessibility.


But huh! y'know what? The phrase "all medically necessary services" doesn't actually appear in our Act. I didn't know that. It just appears 18,600+ times on a search of google.ca. ;)

I'm a little worn out today to be scrutinizing all of its ins and outs, but it looks damned good.

Are there any criticisms of it - from a progressive perspective?

For planning ahead purposes, here's the site to find progressive critique of the Canadian system:
http://www.healthcoalition.ca/






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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Hey! You looked! ^_^ Now, if you can just get 'Murkins to look!
:hi:

Seriously, thanks for reading through it, and making the comparison. Given that you're Canadian, it wasn't necessary, but I give you props for taking the time! Maybe at some point you'll have occasion to tell some 'Murkins what you learned from it.

I'm no expert, but from what I know, the Canadian system isn't perfect, and I tell people it's not the best one to be comparing. Certainly no slam to you, as it's much better than what the USians are willing to do for their country. :)

As for criticisms of HR676--- I'm not aware of any, although certainly it is also not perfect. I know that the physicians (www.pnhp.org) are the certainly in favor of HR676, and I was doing a lot of volunteer effort for www.healthcareforallcolorado.org and that is the model they favor.

For *my* tastes, I think it doesn't include enough. While doing the volunteer effort, I spoke at length with a woman who is Canadian, and worked for over 10 years to get midwifery included in the Canadian system. She was very clear that it's Much Better to get everything you want included to begin with, rather than to try to add it in later.

Given that, I think alternative medicine, massage, dental, and all sorts of other things should be included. Western medicine doesn't do all that is necessary for health, and health should be the goal.

I've been learning what Indians in the US are doing with wellness centers, and it is, indeed, very impressive, and should be a model for what the rest of the US can do with health care.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. Until we cut out the parasitic middlemen, meaning the
insurance companies, for profit health care corporations and control and contain the very powerful PHARMA industries, we will not have meaningful health care reform in this country ever. We will still pay the highest rate per person for mediocre or no health care while those parasites reap profits and rosy Wall Street figures.

Listening to Senator Bernie Sanders this morning on Thom Hartmann, he said the PHARMA lobby in Washington is so powerful that they have never lost a fight anytime a Congressional representative tried to introduce meaningful legislation in this regard. I don't know how we are going to break them.

I'm feeling very discouraged right now.
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