Some tips for saving some of that $3 gasoline

[karlrschneider]

You can save a lot of gas without buying a hybrid!

A few simple tips: (Maybe everyone knows this but maybe not)


Always remember, EVERY time you step on the brake, you are converting
usable (kinetic) energy into heat. Plan ahead. Let the car slow down using gravity instead of using the pedal when possible. When you need to turn a corner, get off the gas a little sooner before you get to it.
Don't be in a hurry to get "up to speed" after a stop unless it's necessary. Pretend there's an egg between your foot and the accelerator pedal and you don't want to break it.

Slow down. If you're going 10 miles to somewhere, it takes 10 minutes to get there at 60 MPH. Going 50 MPH will save you about 85 seconds and in most cars will use about 8% more fuel. (The road from where I live up to the highway is a couple miles, the speed limit is 45 which is what I drive. Almost every day somebody will pass me at 60 and when I get to the highway they are almost always sitting there waiting for traffic - they used up a few ounces of gas to 'beat me' to the intersection and end up gaining about 15 feet.)

Make sure your tires are properly inflated! Many people don't have any idea how much gas underinflated tires will waste!

Don't "warm up" your car, letting it sit stationary unless you absolutely have to. It is actually 'better' for the engine to start off driving slowly right away, and a non-moving car is a total waste of fuel.

If you're in a traffic jam, try to leave a bit -more- room between the vehicle ahead of you and yourself and watch what's going on 3 or 4 cars ahead, NOT just the one directly in front! With a bit of practice, you can often 'creep' without jamming on the gas OR the brake both of which are big fuel-wasting actions.

[tabasco]

1. All true. Slowing down really saves a lot.

My car uses almost twice as much gas at 65 than it does between 50-55, over long trips.

I drive like Grandma Moses these days and it is much safer that way too.

[karlrschneider]

3. I can't afford a brand new 'fuel efficient' car but I drive my old one to maximize

my MPG figures. It's really quite simple to do! :D

[dysfunctional press]

2. $5 gal. is about the price where i'll start changing my driving habits.

we're not there yet.

[karlrschneider]

5. Why not wait until it's $10 a gallon?

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

65. that might work for you...but $5.00 is the amount where i'll have to make changes.

:hi:

[Fridays Child]

4. Also, I've read that, anytime you think you'll idle for more than 15 seconds...

...you're better off turning off the car. Is that true? If so, it seems that going into stores, as opposed to going through the drive-thrus, would save fuel.

[karlrschneider]

7. Yes, that's mostly true, although 15 seconds is a bit marginal...

I would put the 'break even' point at more like at least 30 seconds...or up to 1 minute. (It takes a bit extra fuel to start the engine than it would burn in 15 seconds....usually.)

[orleans]

23. i put up a thread the other day with a few links in it

and read that it was wasteful to turn your car off if you're sitting for only a minute.

check out these websites for more ideas:
http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/gas_savers /
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml
http://www.howtoadvice.com/savinggas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x844266

[karlrschneider]

25. Thanks! I missed your thread. I put mine up just out of the blue after filling up

my old Honda today and wrote some things off the top of my head. :D

Good job.

[IDemo]

60. Once more for shutting down at stoplights

Not at every light, but if it's going to be a noticeable wait (and you're confident your vehicle has no starting 'issues').

The 'ten second rule' seems to be the most commonly accepted, but for older, non fuel-injected vehicles, it may be up to a minute.

http://maine.sierraclub.org/cap_join.htm
http://consumerist.com/consumer/cars/get-30-more-miles-per-tank-turn-off-engine-if-idling-more-than-10-seconds-248099.php

[tammywammy]

10. Or if I'm at the bank drive thru

I just turn off my car.

[stevedeshazer]

6. Good tips

My sled is an '85 Accord with 250 K.

I go really easy on it, and just got 36 mpg on my latest tank.

Defensive driving is the key; look a hundred yards ahead and anticipate instead of accelerating full-bore to the next stoplight and jamming on the brakes.

Drive 65 instead of 75 or even less on the freeways when you can.

Fossil fuel is a finite resource.

[karlrschneider]

9. Yep, Steve...I drive my old '82 Civic as much as I can (not long trips)

but for sure locally. I've gotten as many as 42 MPG with it. It has some chassis problems so I don't take it a long way from home but it sure helps out with 'errands'.
;-)

[gilpo]

61. Grampa always gets there (n/t)

[slackmaster]

8. I see vehicles with underinflated tires all the time

It's one of my numerous driving pet peeves.

[tom_paine]

11. K & R for good advice that's difficult to follow. However...

I will try to incorporate some of your stuff if I can ease up, but I STRONGLY DISAGREE with your final point about the traffic.

NOTE: I just thought of a fantastic way to save gas a little bit at a time, as with your methods which is NO RUBBERNECKING ACCIDENTS. Speed up as you are going past (albeit using the gradual technique described by the OP), if possible, but DO NOT slow down and gawk, for that very much drastically reduces traffic flow thereby wasting gas.

Here's my take on it, and (sadly) I have the equivalent of a Masters in trafficology having spent 3 years daily on one of the very worst traffic routes on the East Coast. There are so many of them on the coast that it is difficult to really call any of them "worst" they are ALL pretty much sooooo bad.

Anyway, you speak of watching 4 cars ahead. I was so interested in observing herd traffic patterns that I almost always looked as far ahead as I could see to study how people moved and reacted, what slowed traffic (thus wasting more gas) and sped traffic along.

I hate to say it, but the traffic strategy you devised if practiced by most everyone, would slow traffic to a brutal crawl. Here's why, IMHO. Statistically, in every group of people so large as the 5,000 or so in many traffic jams, there will be at least one jerk. We all take turns being this jerk (and if you think you haven't taken your turn, too, then you are wrong. EVERYONE has taken at least one turn at it, the difference is how often do we take our turn and do we seek the turn out.

My point is that traffic is abruptly disrupted many times by agitated people making quick lane changes or confused drivers hesitating and disrupting the traffic flow.

In the face of this reality, the "slow roll" is simply impossible to maintain in the face of a two lane to one lane reduction, rubbernecker stop or an accident. Even in traffic that is only volume-produced it is the same, only less pronounced.

Think of traffic as a great accordion or an inchworm. In both cases, the speed at which the music is played or an earthworm moves depends on how fast the segments contract and let go. Slow down the movement of the segments and the "organism" slows at double the pace.

Ok, so I postulate that while your anti-gas-wastage move you speak of in your last paragraph works in theory, in practice it slows traffic to a crawl, wasting twice the gas it intends to save.

In my opinion based on years of careful observation.

I am proud to say I have been almost wholly traffic-free for eight years now!

[karlrschneider]

13. I do understant the 'inch-worm' mentality and will admit the solution won't work

unless a majority of drivers adopt the 'look-ahead' approach. Sure, there will often be the jerk who can't keep up with the program but wouldn't it be an improvement if many or most would? I lived in Tampa for 17 years and endured countless hours on I4 and I275 in the 'accordian' situation. (One reason I never want to again live in a big city...my now local town has exactly 4 stoplights.) But when I was in the traffic jams, it WAS possible for just me alone to minimize the fuel waste I described by doing exactly what I suggested...yes it was a small contribution to economy but isn't that better than nothing at all?

For technical reasons, I must respectfully disagree with your contention that a "crawl" is less efficient (overall) than
the typical stop and go scenario that's generally in place. I can put together a pretty decent energy analysis to demonstrate my claim if you want but that will take some time.
:-)

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. I suck at math, but disagree with your opinion that the "crawl" is less efficient than "stop and go"

I drive two highways in so. cal. every day to get to work: the 73 (toll road) and the 55. I make SURE that I leave enough space between me and the car ahead that I never have to come to a complete stop. It doesn't ALWAYS work, but I'd say that 90% of the time I coast for a few yards before lightly getting back into the gas. I always watch behind me because of how dense the traffic is and I notice that sometimes I even STOP the inchworm and no one behind me has to come to a complete stop.

If that doesn't save gas over coming to a complete stop on a road designed to be traveled at 55-70 mph I'll eat my Dodger cap.

[karlrschneider]

21. Uh, you just agreed with me...(?)

Maybe I'm confused. It does happen. :D

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. My Bad! See what happens when I rely on the Evelyn Woodhead School of Speed Reading n/t

[karlrschneider]

34. LOL....it's all cool.

;-)

[rusty_parts2001]

12. its 1973 all over again

Same tips, still good though.

[karlrschneider]

14. I figured somebody would remember the egg thing.

:-)

but as you say, still good. I remember the 73 lines too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Excellent Post. I'd like to add STOP PATRONIZING DRIVE-THRU FAST FOOD

Across the street from my office are a Del-Taco, a McDonald's, and a Jack-in-the-Box. I haven't actually counted, but I'd guess-timate that 150 cars spend an average of 8 minutes idling while they wait for their food. That's just during LUNCH.

Think of the gas BANNING drive-thru fast food would save. Think of the pounds of fat humans who live in this country wouldn't have on their bodies if they had to actually get out of their cars and WALK INTO THE RESTAURANT.

[karlrschneider]

17. Well, I'm not sure banning them is a great idea but your point is damn well taken.

And you'll piss off a lot of fat people by calling them fat...that's a popcorn moment here at DU. It isn't politically correct. ;-)

Here in Oklahoma there are a lot of "SONIC" drive-ins...we park, and a real actual human brings the food out to the car which isn't running. What an amazing concept, huh?

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Oh, I'm a "Pleasantly Plump" person, and I'm sorry for being insensitive.

My Great-Grandparents lived in Midwest City. Every year it was our vacation destination. I was lucky enough to have them into my twenties. I spent lots of summers looking straight up into the eyes of pilots landing at Tinker Field.

I LOVE SONIC!

Again, I apologize for being insensitive.

[karlrschneider]

22. Woah, I didn't detect a scintilla of insensitivity!

No harm, no foul! :D

It's all good.

[Nicole]

50. Banning drive-thru is not a good idea.

Not all of us using drive thrus are carrying around extra pounds of fat.

There are many disabled people who use them. I use them a couple of times a week myself. However on the days I can walk into the restaurant I do. Those of us who can't easily walk everyday usually take advantage of the days we can & enjoy doing it. On the days we can't, we often use a drive thru.

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Nicole, ever hear of the "Law of Unintended Consequences"?

Since nearly every fast food establishment in town already has a drive-thru window, how about we put the blue paint that denotes handicapped access at the beginning of the drive-thru lanes and reserve them for people with placards? I'm down with that all day.

Gosh I wish I would have used different words to make my point earlier. In my mind, there was a dramatic pause between "pounts of fat", and "humans". Fat and humans weren't meant to be included in the same way.

I'm more than happy to get out of my car if I can't resist the urge to have an In & Out Burger.

[Nicole]

53. The only problem with that is

that the genie is already out of the bottle. As you noted, nearly all of the fast food places have drive thru windows. While the blue paint would be a wonderful thing for people with placards, I think there would be LOTS of people who would protest that. You wouldn't believe the amount of rude comments I've been on the receiving end of now when I use the handicapped parking. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if I also got "special treatment" at the burger joint.

Maybe your idea of banning drive thrus is a better option after all. :)

[bullwinkle428]

55. I NEVER use the drive-thru!! I'm not a big fast-food consumer

to begin with, but I do often grab an Egg McMuffin at McDonald's if I'm making a fairly long drive early in the morning. Most of the time, there are at least 7 or 8 cars lined up in the drive-thru, and I'll just park and run inside, noting the position of the car that would have been directly in front of me had I chosen drive-thru. A good 90% of the time, I've got my little bag of food and am getting to my car well before that car has gotten to the food window! I'm on to their little "time-saving" scam... :rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. I do exactly the same thing and get the same result. n/t

[MadHound]

16. All good points, however I do have one quibble

And that is about letting a car warm up. You can get by with hopping in, starting the car and going in warm weather. However if you do that in cold weather you are going to cause damage to your engine. With lower temperatures oil becomes more viscous and takes longer to initially lubricate your engine fully. Thus if you start a cold car and go, you are risking some serious friction problems, ones that can damage your engine. I hate to say it, but your best bet in winter is to indeed let your car warm up five-ten minutes depending on the temperature outside.

[karlrschneider]

19. Sorry but you are mistaken.

It is FAR better to drive away slowly right away. Unless the oil pump in your engine is malfunctioning, you have all the lubrication you need within 30 seconds. Please understand I would never make claims unless I knew what I was talking about. I have some bona fides which a lot of DUers know and which I won't bring up here. If you feel the need to verify them, feel free to DUmail or email me at [e-mail]
(I lived in and flew planes from central Minnesota where temps often got to minus 30F...I actually do have knowledge about this) :D

[MadHound]

24. I have to respectfully disagree

I've been working on various types of engines, small to large, gas and diesel, for well over thirty five years now, and know what I'm speaking about. If you really want to put this to the test, you can come over to my place this winter. We'll take a test car, yank the head and meaure the cylinders, pistons and rings with a micrometer. After buttoning everything up we'll let it sit out on a cold night, fire it up and and go the next morning, then yank the head and remeasure. I'm willing to do all of this if you're willing to bet a large sum of money to pay for my time and effort on this however.

Oh, and another thing, cold starts in cold weather is also hard on transmissions, especially manual ones, for the same reason.

[karlrschneider]

26. Measuring the internal parts of the engine is meaningless.

The WORST case is if everything is absolutely in "spec" with minimum clearances (which aren't optimal as you must know if you're an engine expert.)

I don't get what point you're trying to make here...any engine that has sat overnight will have bare cylinders and minimal or no lubrication (the radial in my PT22 airplane is an exception at least concerning the ones at the bottom)...point being that a typical car engine starts up dry. Duh. If you don't have oil pressure within 15 to 30 seconds, something isn't working right.

And how do you propose to 'warm up' a manual transmission besides USING it? Let the engine run for half an hour and let the heat seep into it? And, "another thing"...an automatic transmission is WAY more susceptible to cold than a manual ever could be. Remind me to not bring a car to your shop for diagnosis.

[MadHound]

30. Sorry, but you just gave yourself away with that first line

You are essentially advocating for "slop" a factor that American cars are notorious far. Sure, it is easier to do the dirty work on them, but they don't perform as well. Besides, if having everything meeting the specs is so bad, why do so many professional drivers insist that their vehicles meet all the specs?

But I wasn't neccessarily advocating that everything be in spec, I'm simply telling you that if you were to measure the cylinder walls, pistons and rings after a cold start on a cold day, you will find that there has been abnormal wear.

And yes, you will have the oil pump distributing oil as soon as the engine is started, but since the oil is so much more viscous at lower temperatures, it will not distribute evenly, hence causing unneeded wear.

And you are halfway right on the tranny issue. Letting the car warm for five or ten minutes, depending on the temperature, does allow some warmth seep into the gear box and lessen the viscosity there. But you are also correct in that movement also helps. However you are absolutely wrong on the issue of automatics being more suseptible to cold than manuals.

But again, the main point is engine wear. Starting a cold engine and driving it immediately will cause unneeded wear and tear on your engine. If you don't believe me, fine, it's your car that your destroying. But the proof is in the measurements. Auto makers, mechanics and engineers have all found that it is best to let the car warm for a few minutes. If you wish to be penny wise, go ahead and drive the cold car engine. However you will be being pound foolish.

Don't believe me, fine, I really don't care. Just trying to pass on some information, but sadly it seems that everytime I wish to do that with you, you feel the need for some unknown reason to try and slap me down as being wrong, even though I'm in my area of expertise. Why you do this, I don't know, but frankly I find it rude as hell and an annoyance. What the fuck did I do to you to make you wish to be so contrary?

[karlrschneider]

33. You're right. I have absolutely no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

I'm just a graduate aeronautical engineer with obviously no knowledge of how a motor works. You didn't do the fuck anything to make me contrary, I was just trying to be helpful. I'm terribly sorry that pisses you off. How about a few references to all those "auto makers, mechanics and engineers" who have "found it's best to let the car warm up"?

Can you produce any? I'm not being a prick, I'm asking a question. Put up or shut up.

By the way, how does idling ameliorate the "uneven wear" you mention? Can't you see that oil UNDER PRESSURE is a more effective lubrication? Oh, maybe you're accustomed to cars with electric oil pumps. Gee, I can't think of any.
:eyes:

[MadHound]

38. You know what, screw it!

Yeah, I can provide you with links, quotes and all that, but fuck it. You obviously took offense at somebody who is an experienced mechanic contradicting your oh so wise opinion, no matter how respectfully it was done, so you fucking decided to unload. Fuck it. You want the knowledge, you go find it. Go ask around at your local auto mechanics next time. Or hell, just go fucking google the damn shit. Like I said, I did just that and have a fine page of references here, but fuck it, you're not willing to listen, you just want to jump all over my case because somehow, someway you think that I pissed in your Wheaties:grr:

Look pal, you may be some great god aeronautical engineer, but you aren't the only one around here with multiple advanced degrees and a deep well of knowledge. If you can't except that, tough shit. So go ahead, fucking keep driving your car without a warm up, I don't give a fucking rats ass anymore, since it won't be me paying for the ring job or getting my cylinders ground.

Fuck, try to be informative and nice around here and look what fucking happens:grr:

Good night.

[karlrschneider]

40. Per your suggestion, I except it.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Nitey nite, Goober.

[here_is_to_hope]

64. Im with you on this one....I drive a

VW, air cooled and no way in hell would I fire it up and drive off. Same with my old Volvo's.
John Muir (the VW guru) always said..."start her up, taker a minute to roll a smoke and get it pulling real good" before you hustle off. In a brand new car I was going to trade off in a year? Maybe I would fire it up and go, but anything I am keeping (which is everything these days) gets the utmost care.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Normal Oil Pressure is achieved in about 10 seconds after the engine makes its first revolution

If I'm not mistaken. Ask me to look it up, and I will, but Oil Pressure is what's important, not engine temperature.

[MadHound]

36. Normal oil pressure is indeed achieved, however

The oil is still much more viscous, and thus doens't fully lubricate all of the parts it needs to until it warms up to around room temp or so. This generally takes five-ten minutes depending on the temperature.

If you take off right away, all you are doing is causing improperly lubricated parts to work at higher rpms, thus causing them more damage. I truly wish I had a scanner handy, as I have a number of engine manuals, both old and new, showing the exact sort of wear that happens when you do this.

[karlrschneider]

37. I wonder if you actually know what the true purpose of engine lubrication is.

So I have a question for you: Why isn't water as useful as oil as an engine lubricant?

[MadHound]

39. I wonder if you actually know what you're talking about too

Then again, no, I don't wonder about that at all.:eyes:

[karlrschneider]

41. So you don't even know? What a surprise.

...

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. No No No No No... Lubrication is about putting a substance between two surfaces

to decrease friction and to prevent them from coming in contact with each other thus preventing wear also.

It doesn't matter what the temperature of the viscous liquid that keeps the two metal surfaces apart is. It keeps them apart.

I've built a few VW engines from scratch, from the crankshaft out. When I'm finished putting them together, setting the timing/points/valve clearances... I pull the coil wire and crank the motor for about twenty seconds, while watching the oil pressure guage. When it gets to about 30psi, I plug the coil wire back in and fire that mutha up.

[karlrschneider]

47. More specifically, to prevent metal-to-metal contact.

Which you obviously grasp. It's an engineering concept that madhound doesn't seem to understand or at least refuses to address. I really don't know what his agenda amounts to....
:eyes:

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. One of my favorite phrases: Conversation Lubrication

It doesn't actually prevent mind-to-mind contact... It just postpones it til tomorrow morning.

[bullwinkle428]

56. I use a synthetic blend motor oil for that reason -

-20°F is not that unusual for mid-winter in Iowa!

[LSK]

57. that would be the case only for extreme cases of cold

If its 20 or higher, you can pretty much go in about 30 seconds.

[AlCzervik]

27. i drive a stick shift so i try and get into the highest gear as soon as possible

without being heavy on the pedal and then i try and stay there.

[karlrschneider]

28. There's nothing wrong with that but whichever gear you're in is unimportant.

In -real- cold weather, 90 wt. gear oil is pretty much glue anyway...just getting the shafts rotating is enough. :-)

[AlCzervik]

29. thats the one thing i don't miss about living in Boston--cold starts.

the coldest it gets here in the winter mornings is about 35f and even thats unusual. And my car stays in the garage, anothing thing i didn't have in Ma., oh the joys of having a garage!

[unkachuck]

35. very good points....

....may I add another?....everytime I go to the pump I get the shit scared out of me....I never know what will happen next or how my economic life will be threatened....obviously, we're dealing with a group of economic terrorists....

....so why not write, call, email your politicians to have the oil companies put on the terrorists-list and have the officals of these companies arrested as terrorists....

....the government could then freeze and seizes their illegal assets and take control of this criminal industry in the name of National Security!!....

....I for one, would sleep much better at night....

[DemoTex]

42. Meanwhile, I do all of the above in my little Prius.

I recently did a 400+ mile R/T to mid-Georgia in the Prius, and averaged 51.2 MPG.

[karlrschneider]

43. And I'm embarrassed...I did a r/t to Denver on Tuesday and got 9 mpg.

In a borrowed 310. Talk about conflicted....:eyes:

[DemoTex]

44. Wish I could borrow a C-310! Even a C-210!

But that's a dream .. the Prius is a reality. It reminds me so much of the Airbus 319/320/321! Drive-by-wire .. push-button-start.

[karlrschneider]

46. So glad to see you back online Mac! Hah, well, I've always been in the

lower echelon of aviation...unlike you I never got to drive the big iron, but I do have, even yet and amazingly, friends who still trust me, the old phart, to ascend in their craft. :D

(I'm still negotiating to buy the 310 I used to fly for Senator Coburn's daddy. We're getting close to an agreement!)

[DemoTex]

48. What model C-310?

I once flew one of the old straight-tailed 310s.

BTW: My abscess is still healing but it is still a beooootch! Looks like surgery #1 next Wednesday.

[karlrschneider]

54. It's a 310P, made in 69 I believe...5715M

Haven't seen it in years so I'll need to catch a ride up to Seattle if and when we get serious. :-)

I put about 3500 hours on it in the 70s. I looked at a Q model but I don't much like that rear 'skylight' window they
started putting in them with that model. Keepin' fingers crossed for your surg.
ks

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. Is there a possibility that in the long run, the Prius might save gas but hurt the environment?

I read an article that said the nickel mine Toyota buys it's nickel from caused the end of all life for miles around in Sudbury, Ontario, and that it's shipped around the world during different processes and everywhere it's refined or handled it leaves behind toxic heavy metal pollution.

I don't quite know the politics that drive Central Connecticut State University but here's a link:

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

[bullwinkle428]

58. Another tip - change out the air filter at least once a year!

A very simple procedure that any car owner can take care of themselves, as a dirty filter restricts airflow into the engine decreasing it's efficiency. Replacement filters run about $10-15 for the typical vehicle, so we're not talking significant bucks either.

Just find the air box under the hood, remove the cover, pull out the old filter, brush & vacuum out any dirt and bugs that have accumulated, drop in the new filter, replace the air box cover, and you're ready to go!

I've also had some success with fuel treatments - essentially just a mixture of petroleum distillates that you dump into the fuel tank and break down the buildup in the fuel injectors, but this is a function of how much detergent is in the fuel. If your gas is clean, you probably won't notice much of a difference...

[KT2000]

59. Does putting the car in neutral

save gas, such as in a waiting situation?
Anyone know?

[freeplessinseattle]

63. I was embarassed today bc I had overinflated tires

Was told this by the oil change guy, he said I had about 55 lbs of pressure and 35 is ideal, over or under that gas mileage is reduced. I rarely measure my tire pressure bc I'm lazy and just figured as long as I fill the tires now and then I'm ok.

'course that really gave him the green light to try to upsell me on all kinds of things, some of which I'm sure I do need, but since I set myself up to look like a clueless chick I'll see if I can get a friend to replace my serpetine belt or whatever.