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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:26 PM
Original message
I'm about as left wing as you can get around these parts, of course we can do better as Dems
But frankly, I'm not buying all of the "Obama is as bad as the other guy" bull that I see all the time.

And the reason is pretty simple: I've never expected President Obama to do it all alone.

He can only do so much, and even that so much has limits. He can't enact laws, for that he needs Congress. So, if Congress drops the ball, which it frequently has, because the Democrats are following fifteen different agendas and Republicans are using every obstructionist trick in the book, how in the hell can Obama succeed (100% of the time as some us are apt to demand)? And don't get me started on the courts. OH boy.

President Obama doesn't own the media. It's the corporations that does and they have their own agendas. They're working overtime to distract and deceive, in order to affect or destroy popular support for Obama's efforts, which have the potential to change the existing economic structure. If that structure had collapsed, things would be much worse than they already are now, we all know that. If it were possible to prevent a collapse and yet reform the system to a more community based process, in lieu of the current corporatized apparatus, why didn't the media express those kind of solutions as a whole? The reason is simple: Because, the owners of the media depend on the corporatized apparatus, so they went along with triage without reformation. They'd be cutting their own throats if there was a well informed electorate demanding that Congress and the White House reorganize the economy. Without that demand, there is no political clout to reorganize. Save first, fix later has to be the way to go for now.

Besides, most Americans feel that they're are entitled to be pissed off at the Government, whether it's constructive or not. And there are people who object to everything, merely because they feel entitled to be obstinate. The media and the politicians play these people like a card game all time. This is just obfuscation to muddy the waters, sow doubt, mistrust and anger. It makes people unreasonable. How would you like to try and govern a nation full of unreasonable people? I know that I wouldn't. Yet, President Obama is keeping his head about him under those conditions... Give him some credit, will ya?

The American political system was designed to be slow and arduous. Bush cut through a lot of Red tape to enact his own agenda. And many here rightly called him on it. Such red tape cutting is an anathema to President Obama, because he believes in the proper processes of doing government, and unfortunately that means that he has to continue and defend some previously enacted policies. All presidents have had to put up with this kind of crap. Two years in office is not long enough to reverse every wrong made by Bush. Especially, with a lack of necessary political clout, and also especially for someone who believes in following the rules. Wait a while, whatever your concern is... He should get to it, if he can.

Yes, Obama makes wrong decisions. He's human. He knows he's not perfect, frankly if anyone else didn't know this, I don't know what planet they're living on. When considering the alternative, I think that we do ourselves a favor by cutting him a little slack. That doesn't mean that we have to follow along like little automatons, not at all. It means that we have to educate ourselves on how the system actually works. And it works when he is afforded some added momentum to help him make better decisions. Of course, there's going to be resistance. He's the head Chef, and too many cooks spoil the soup. So when people pout and complain that they want to take their marbles and go home because your feelings are hurt, first off I call into question their maturity level and I declare that this is no way to get the job done. You want to get results? ELECT A MORE LIBERAL CONGRESS.

Yes, there are too many things that haven't either been addressed or the solutions are less than perfect. Well, I really don't understand how ANYTHING can be expected to be perfect with the initial manifestation. That's why things are amended over time. That's the way the process works. Guess what, A MORE LIBERAL CONGRESS is just what we all need to fix those problems and the imperfect solutions in the long run. That takes work, not a magic wand.

And lastly, I know that a lot of people think that he's let us down. I'm not one of those people. He has done a lot for this country to make to make things better. He's won some and he's lost some. He has stood tall and he has stumbled some as well. And yet, he has done so very much while he was very much ALONE with no one else in his corner.

So, you won't hear me saying that Obama has let us down. Because, when I don't see as many as he needs of us to back him up, like both those missing out of Congress and the regular, angry guy on the street, all I can say is that WE HAVE LET HIM DOWN.

Our focus should be on keeping the batshit crazy GOP from regaining power. Now is not the time to be Debbie Downers and let down the one guy who has the responsibility of standing between them and us.

Yes, I know that I just pissed some of you off.

So, what else is new?





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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Right
for the next 6 months the Dems are the best. The GOP can eat shit.

Come December, back on the attack.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree with that attitude wholeheartedly
This is a constant struggle.

And yet, we can't afford to lose sight of the big picture.

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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Did you read the OP, because no where are they saying we shouldn't attack now.
Just, that the criticism needs to be valid.

The OP is correct. Obama is human, not perfect, and can't do it all on his own. He needs to be treated that way; especially by those on the left.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. My, what a sensible post.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting that. Seriously.
I disagree with President Obama in some areas. I don't think he has pushed hard enough on GLBT issues, for example. I wish he'd take another hard look at Afghanistan and see that, no matter how long we're there, it will revert back to a fractured nation, dominated by sectarian and tribal conflicts.

I agree with you that there is much he is unable to do, due to a sluggish, frightened Congress. Now, that's something we can do something about in this election year. I sincerly hope we will, but it's going to take a lot of grunt work from us to break through the apathy and turn out Democratic voters in numbers high enough to move Congress in our direction.

So, thank you very much for posting. You're absolutely right. We may not agree 100% on every issue, but we certainly can agree that we cannot let the Republicans regain control. Down that road is disaster.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. One of the most honest and sensible posts I've ever read on DU.
:hi:
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. so true, now im happy with these bus tracks on my face
much different than being rolled over by repubs.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Do you think you would be less screwed with Bible Barbie and
Grandpa McCain in office?

Really?
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. *crickets*
That should answer your question.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. See my reply #30
if you're not too busy with your *crickets*.. whatever
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. God forbid I want a true progressive or a man of the people
you're the one who's talkin bout mccain, not me.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. You didnt even come close to answering the question.
But frankly, I didnt expect you to.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. You don't come close to...
well, i can't really say the rest now can i. needless to say you are on my ignore list now.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Ah, can't answer, so ignore. The pattern continues.
I can't say I'm shocked.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Voltaire was wrong, sometimes you do need to point out the obvioius
The obvious in this case is that it wasn't the choice we were offered.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well said, Sir
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. There was also overstatement of the problem with Clinton.
The thing is, Obama is, and Clinton was, immensely better than GOP presidents, not to even note the vast improvement over the worst of them, Dubya.

The problem is that we don't just need adequate, not even good. The times call out for exceptional. And, unfortunately, Obama has not proved to be that.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ok, point taken: He's no FDR
We've got him for at least the next two years. And it seems like he needs to be pushed at times.

But he's what we have to work with.

The strategy should be centered around making him better.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Few people today know all that much about FDR.
Fewer still would bother to learn. Not everything about FDR was perfect, either. Mind you, I'm certainly not old enough to remember him, but...
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. "all I can say is that WE HAVE LET HIM DOWN" - ?
Are you saying that we as the Democratic base "have let him down"?? How so?? In what way??



"And yet, he has done so very much while he was very much ALONE with no one else in his corner." How in the world was he "very much ALONE with no one else in his corner"???


I'm completely perplexed by this post.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You need to brush up on newspeak
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. When the teabaggers marched on Washington, where were we?
When he said that he felt that Afghanistan was the proper war to fight during the campaign, why didn't we all convince him otherwise?

When we needed to succeed in removing the Blue Dogs during the primaries, why didn't we all GOTV and stand together?

Frankly, I'm prefer winning solutions, rather than excuses.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. Better yet, when the teabaggers marched on Washington,
where WAS our Democratic Party leadership?

.."Removing the Blue Dogs during the Primaries?"
We tried.
The White House was campaigning FOR them.
(SEE:Blanche Lincoln (Blue Dog, AR)

Obama and Bill Clinton campaigning FOR vehemently Anti-LABOR Blue Dog Lincoln really pulled back the curtain for me.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Right on all counts
The problem as I see it is that we didn't make the party leadership listen to us.

For that, we need to do a much better job.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Here's how ,,,
We already know that the GOP is against anything Obama does. So he starts with about a 40% AGAINST position on anything he attempts. They scream he is doing too much.

So then ... Obama drives a stake in the ground on some issue. And then between 5% and 15% of the left screams that he is not going far enough, and they too are AGAINST whatever he proposed.

The media COMBINES the 40% from the right, and the 5-15% from the left, and declares that most people think he's doing too much. Sheep in the middle, slide over to AGAINST whatever it is.

The cowardly Dems in Congress balk. And Obama has to compromise even further to even get them on board.

I'd contrast that with this scenario ... if we all supported his initial positions more, we'd be giving him room to move further LEFT. To push for MORE.

But we knee-jerk ... or maybe knee-cap ... is a better analogy.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. This is *exactly* how. nt
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. Damn fine post! n/t
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Thanks ... we spend so much time fighting "us" ...
Our "leaders" see us a fickle ... they can't count on us to be with them when things are hard and when some compromise is needed. So they start out tentative, get beat up from both sides, and then compromise from there.

What the Dems and Obama need are CLEAR victories, with the Left cheering the incremental gains. If we want them to be bold, then we need them to taste victory.

But we are like kids in the back of the car on a long trip ... "are we there yet, are we there yet ... stop touching me ... you're on my side of the car ... its MY turn" ... blah blah blah ...

We can not win the war if we don't win the battles.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Not as bad" makes a piss-poor campaign slogan and for some of us it's No Sale.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thank you. Right on the money.
I'm getting a little tired myself of watching an allegedly Democratic site taking turns sucker punching Obama. Talk about self defeating fuckwittery.

Good post.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. Of course Obama is nearly perfect compared with the right.
Anyone who doesn't see this is muddleheaded and wrong. Our ENEMY is the right wing. We need to soundly defeat them and win the public ideological discourse. We cannot sit back idly and expect elected officials to legislate change - we must continuously demand it from all venues. Political spontaneity will tend to push things to the right - let's face it, this is a reactionary, patriarchal, imperialist country with a legacy of oppression and bloodshed. We progressives are the underdogs and will be for many decades to come. Obama may not be a real progressive, but that's fine! He's not a fascist and will help pave the way for even better changes down the road. Increment by increment, this country WILL be transformed, not in 4 or 8 years, but in a century or more.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Agreed on all points
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. Righteous rant, Mr. Scorpio.
K&R :kick:
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Your OP really sums up how I feel as well.
K & R :thumbsup:
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. I disagee with your post, including the subject line. n/t
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Exactly
Thanks for proving one of my points!
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. You're welcome.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:26 PM
Original message
Anytime!
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. I disagree with the whole thing as well
I do not consider the OP to be nearly as liberal as many of us, and i have read a LOT of his threads. I can't post my real message about this cause the mods just keep deleteing it. ah glad to see censorship live and well at DU - all cause i talked about Obama screwing us. :crazy:
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. That would be why...
my post was a simple subject line.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Frankly, I could have gone all Chomsky on here
But in the long run, I have to speak as I see how the game is actually played.


By the way, if you want to challenge my liberal bona fides on a point by point basis, have at me.

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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
29. Excellent post!
:thumbsup:

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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. How has Obama fought and pressured Congress? I remember him saying "Baucus is my man,"
while they held hands or hugged, or something.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. A little enlightenment for you, when you have time to read it....
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

119 to 19. That's really pretty good for any president.
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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
53. So you're saying you don't even think Congress has been obstructing?
Obama is doing a reasonably fine job keeping his campaign promises, and Congress is pretty much in step?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Sure, and LBJ-like intimidation move might have gotten better results
Or even something that TR would have done...

But it would be silly to expect something like that from Obama, who pretty damn good at speaking softly. Consensus building and all that rot. Pure politics on his part.

But frankly, I rather have the well informed masses carry the big stick. Better results that way.

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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. But the "bully pulpit" is for motivating regular people to stand up and demand more.
If the President himself isn't calling for pressure on Congress to support an issue he campaigned on, what are the rest of us going to do?

I don't expect him to get his way all the time, and it's fine for him to speak softly. But Max Baucus is not going to enact Obama's campaign promises for him.

I love that old English "D", by the way!
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
40. Yeah he's a real stand up guy ...
using YOU to excuse his failure.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. What failure? He's got 119 plusses to offset the 19 "failures"
That's a damn good tally in any presidential estimation.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. Plus 82 "stalled" and 245 "in the works."
The next interesting bit would be to go through and see what *kinds* of promises get kept, broken, stalled, "in the works," etc.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Bush had his helpers too ...
and they were batshit crazy also.

Your point is to piss off those who aren't. How Very Sad of You.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. The folks who are pissed off at me are probably already pissed off at Obama too
They all have their reasons why.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. Good Rant...Nominated.... I just really hate
The Senate and hold them responsible for the stagnation of the nation.


I include many Democratic Senators along with all of the Republican Senators
in that disgust. I think it is an archaic rich man's institution

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bingo!
And guess what, they love their slow-as-molasses style and will protect it at all costs.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. One thing I find facinating tho in regards to some on DU and the congress
Is how during the bush years the blue dogs was reviled for often siding with the republicans and as such helping them pass things

During Obama's presidency so far the blue dogs are still reviled(for being what they are) but Obama is the one getting the vast majority of the blame(which in my eyes ignores the fact that the blue dogs are still doing quite well in obstructing and aiding the republicans)


One of your points tho is quite vital, elect a more liberal congress as that is the only way to get most the issues solved the way people here on DU wants(I disagree with those attacking Obama for supporting some of the blue dogs tho, a president almost always(if not always)supports the one currently holding the seat if only because not doing so would cause some severe havoc with party loyalty and coherency in congress(did that make sense?))
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Blue Dogs are Congress .. DLC is Senate for the most part
For the most Pelosi has bypass the Blue Dogs and done her fair share of the fight but the Senate DLCers are another matter. Pelosi should have not clean the table on Bush's sins and I will never forgive them for not doing it.

Obama wasn't my first or second choice but he was my third coming after Dennis and Gore.
The Senate is the bottle neck on anything progressive and Obama knows that and everything ends up so watered down out of the Senate that the oil barons still rise to the top.

Now about the Supreme Court............ Don't get me started unless he increases the number of judges because we are still fucked if he doesn't.


Obama is a good president dealing with the assholes he knows and knew he always would have to deal with.... but for pete's sake.

Bring the troops home
NOW

Start a works program to rebuild this nation.. for solar, wind, high speed trains, intercity trains, redo the grid, and get the overly corporate influence out our government by breaking up the massive conglomerates like Teddy Roosevelt did.

Its a big order, I know, but it can be done.

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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. Excellent post. Most of the primaries are over right now.
... which means we have many, many Democrats trying to hold onto their seats. The alternatives to those Dems are not other liberals at the moment -- they are people who make even the most vilified Democratic senators and representatives look like Ralph Nader.

A lot of us might need to look back at what happened in 2008 after "General Discussion: Primaries" turned into "General Discussion: Presidential". One of the oldest rules here is that after the primary this bandwidth is not to be used to work for the party nominee's defeat.... but even in 2008 we were allowed one week to vent and get everything out of our systems. Perhaps because the state primaries are so spread out it's been hard to define the exact time when things change from "primary mode" to "campaign mode", and these debates are part of that process.

But when it comes down to it, we are guests in a Democratic home, and our hosts don't like to pay for us to trash our party's nominees. While Obama may not be directly in a campaign himself, midterm elections are often a referendum on the President. The overwhelming landslide of Republican victories in 1994 was only possible because they turned it into a referendum on Clinton. There's going to be enough right-wingers and tea party people hating on Obama already.... we don't need to contribute to another 1994 because we are so impatient after 8 years of Republican rule to see progress made by leaps and bounds. Sometimes it'll be baby steps. But it IS progress, and we really don't need to sabotage it.

Kick and Recommend.
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