Death by a thousand foiled terror plots.

[Philosoraptor]

One sure fire and cheap way of keeping the terror of nine eleven rolling on forever is to have constant, repetitive terror alerts, in the form of foiled Al Qaeda plots. And of course dozens of suspicious packages and airport shut downs and delays.

It's cheap, it's effective, and it prolongs our collective terror. How many foiled terror plots have there been since bush 'took' office? The latest one from Germany, the one in Miami last year, the liquid bomb scare in London, these little terrors keep us nervous and jittery and constantly reminded that we are being kept safe by our political daddies.

Of course some of them might be real, but most of them are made of less than whole cloth. And we know that our government and it's media outlets would definitely lie to us to control us, we know they exaggerate, embellish, and engage in outright unbelievable shit every day, and like the boys who cried wolf one time too many, it's beginning to have the opposite effect, instead of screaming we are yawning.

Sure, there will be more terror down the road, and if it's possible to foil a plot by god foil it then, but more and more people are beginning to realize that we are all being played like chumps.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. I think people are kind of "9/11-TERRA"'ed out at this point.

Regardless of how dumb or sheeplike many people are, these kind of tactics still only have limited usefulness. Even if they're inclined to believe the shrub and go along with this stuff, the gut just doesn't respond the same way 6 years and 932 fake/"just averted in the nick of time" terror plots later.

[Socal31]

2. Hmmmmm....

I dont think the government is making up all of these plots. Believe it or not, extremeist Muslims (note the extreme part) really dont like anyone who doesnt think exactly like them, especially us...

That being said, of course sh*t like the Padilla case is a joke. They made a whole spectacle of a guy with some drawings in his trunk. But I still dont mind a proactive Law Enforcement.

Bush is out in a little over a year. Hopefully the Democratic admin. that follows will take a softer aproach on foreign policy, but still go after the true threats. We can be "safe" without being a bully. But, if you think just because we get Obama elected, true terrorists will stop plotting against the US, your naïveté is seeping through your skin!

[Philosoraptor]

3. Yes, I'm naive alright.

I know that all the terrorists are in Iraq and that if we don't kill all the Iraqis the whole nation of terrorists will simply fly back with the troops when we turn tail.

[Socal31]

4. Point?

The Syrians and Persians fighting us in Iraq right now are not the true "terrorists."

Everyone knows Iraq had nothing to do with fighting terrorism, no matter how much Bush sent his cronies to tell us Saddam had nuclear material. Its actually made things 50X worse. I am talking about the terrorists responsible for WTC 1, WTC 2, U.S.S. Cole, Bali, etc. Bush didnt make these threats, and they wont go away with a dem administration.

[Philosoraptor]

5. If a Dem is elected there will be another horrible attack.

Then the repubs will leap on this as proof that only they can make us safe. Of course I'd be delighted if actual terror plots are foiled, but the dozen or so since nine eleven have been proven to be overblown hysteria, amplified by our 'press'.

If a government tells constant lies, one starts to not believe a fucking word they say after a while is my point.

[dave_p]

6. Syrians and Persians?

Huh? Where are you getting this from?

Nope, most of the people fighting the US in Iraq are Iraqis opposing a criminal occupation.

There are foreign fighters - hardly any of them Syrian or Iranian - but they tend to prefer the post-invasion jihadi groups that spend most of their time killing Iraqis.

[RC]

7. Our government is not as pure and lily white in these matters as you

seem to think. The US government has been up to its neck meddling in the Middle East since WWII and South America to site only 2 of way too many. What makes anyone think the situtions you sited are any different?

[bluerum]

8. The US got interested in the ME when it became understood that the

industrial revolution would be fueled by oil. IMO this idea took hold in the collective consciousness of the political and industrial elites just prior to WWI.

Again IMO, the US and the international OIL and banking industries (Standard Oil at the time) were complicit in fomenting political division and strife on the ground in the ME at that time.

[Socal31]

13. Did I say that?

I dont remember saying anything about the gov. being "lily white". That is more hyperbole....

Basically you give anyone shit who says anything less then "the USA never does anything right, and anything bad that happens, we deserve it," thinking they must be some closet-neo who's dining with Bush & Rove tonight.....

But im new here, so I guess ill try not to start too many arguments my first week! Carry-on.!

[rasputin1952]

11. I find this a bit troublesome...

"But I still dont mind a proactive Law Enforcement.", every time LE gets proactive, we wind up closer to a state that ensures a police state in the long run. LE needs to deal w/crime, not speculation. The FBI does a pretty good job most of the time, but local LE can turn into a nightmare pretty quickly. If they run out of "terrorist suspects", everyone becomes a suspect, it is imperative ot keep 'something' going to ensure increased funding.

[Socal31]

14. Good point...

I guess I meant proactive, as in not flat out retarded. Like if suspicious men get flying lessons but arent wanting to learn to land, I would just hope that would set off some alarm bells this time. I definatly didnt mean any more loss of civil liberties, or cops doing random searches, or getting more access to our lives like our friends in GB.

[rasputin1952]

16. Yep...If I were a flight instuctor, I'd seriously question why

someone would want to know just how to fly, it makes no sense not to know how to TO/Land; that alone should have set off sirens and bells. I'm still wondering just how they explained that away...:shrug:

BTW...Welcome to DU...:hi:

[Philosoraptor]

18. It was a distraction. 'Hi, I'd like to learn to fly but not land please'.

If anyone actually believed that someone would actually say that in a flight class is bizarre, but the deception apparently worked. If a man actually intended to do that, he'd be instantly suspicious and would have blown his cover. But if a man wanted to be seen asking this ridiculous question, to leave the impression that Arab men were asking this bizarre question right before the attacks, It starts to make sense.

Don't automatically buy every thing you read or hear.

[slowry]

9. Foiled or manufactured? n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. Foiled Plots-NO new "tools" required

Although our "friends" on the Right seem to think, judging by their constant invective, that we on the Left don't take the terrorist threat "seriously", I would dare them to compare Clinton's record on combating terrorism with Reagan, Bush I, or Bush II (although, to be fair, Reagan and Bush I didn't have to deal with the issue quite as much). Of course, our "friends" on the Right don't actually hesitate to do so at every convenient opportunity but I haven't heard ANY of them give Clinton ANY credit for his aggressive (which was considered "obsessive" back then) counter-terrorism efforts or his ability to bring perpetrators and would-be perpetrators to justice WITHOUT the use of some of the "tools" that Bush claims is now necessary to fight terrorism (but which the Right was adamantly opposed to giving HIM). While some of the plots that have come to light over the years since 9/11 MIGHT have been legitimate and lest we make light of them, it should be repeated over and over again that NONE of these "foiled" plots have been reported to have been "foiled" by the use of any of the extraordinary "tools" that Bush sought and received following 9/11. Most of them seem to have relied on good old fashioned intelligence and police work (just as Kerry suggested), as well as, in this most recent case, a citizen doing their civic duty to report something that he felt was disturbing and potentially dangerous.

[reprehensor]

12. Then there's the "un-foiled" ones.

I posted a new piece by Nafeez Ahmed on one of the 7/7 bombers who had been identified 6 months prior to 7/7;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=281013&mesg_id=281013

But the 7/7 plot proceeded unaffected.

Ahmed has also done good investigative work on the impossibility of the earlier "Liquid Bomb Plot" as presented by British Intel.

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2006/09/ex-uk-intel-official-says-liquid.html

In my opinion, western intelligence services are NOT doing everything possible to stop "terrorism", but rather, monitor, influence, and even direct the operations of radicals, (Islamists, the US "Patriot" movement, etc.), in a manner that causes acts of "terror", or mitigates the effect.

This includes Canada;
http://www.911blogger.com/node/3710

"...the Canadian "Terror Cell" was thoroughly infiltrated with moles up to and including the leadership level."


Finally there is the case of Ali Mohamed. Peter Lance calls him a "Triple Agent", I call him a Western Intel asset, protected by a variety of governmental agencies, now apparently living under the witness protection program in the US;

http://www.911blogger.com/node/3219

Unfortunately, I think this cynical manipulation, and duplicity in regard to their assets is going to result in either;

a) A "foiled" nuke attack.

b) A "successful" nuke attack, that: i) Results in the total dissolution of the Constitution and a true dictatorship, or ii) The black-op is conducted under Democratic rule, and is covered up like 9/11, and a de facto Right-Wing dictatorship ensues.

[IChing]

15. I usually look at the hidden news dumps that occur

during these "alerts" not saying there is nothing happening, but
usually they hold on to these "plots" and release them
at convenient times when something is a foul and revealing with
the administrations' own unsuitable behavior.

[cooolandrew]

17. Work on getting as many senators elected as possible, with enough seats ....

... the WH won't matter.