What if we had been successful in Iraq?

[Quixote1818]

I was thinking about this last night and came to several conclusions. I believe, if we had been successful in Iraq Bush would have been 100 times more dangerous and in the long run our nation would have gone back-wards about 150 years. Bush would REALLY believe he was chosen by God and the nutty, religious right wing of the Republican Party would have gained much more power. It might have been the beginning of a true Christian theocracy! Bush would have used his success to grab more and more power and attacked more Middle East Countries! He would still be spying on Democrats and had more ability to fix elections. The corruption in the Republican party would be OUT OF CONTROL! Bush would have been drunk with the power and he would have been nuttier than EVER! It might have been the beginning of the end of the United States as we know it.

Lets face it, Bush attacking Iraq was a lose, lose situation for everyone no matter what the outcome! Thats my take anyway. The second 9/11 happened Bush was destined to FUCK up everything he touched! We simply had the worst person possible in office to handle 9/11.

[William769]

1. successful in Iraq?

In what universe?

[ribrepin]

2. I think you are spot on

I do know that we would have been in Iran by now. This was bound to happen, * wouldn't have stopped invading countries until he had his ass handed to him.

It may still be the end of America as we know it, Dork and Dick still don't get that we will never bend Iraq to our will.

[Amonester]

3. Good points, but in my (very) humble opinion, bu$che & co have...

succeeded beyond their wettest dream$ (so far, and they're not "done" yet...), if you look at the documented "facts" of exactly WHO they "work" for (the have's and the have-more's).

But I understand most people have a hard time admitting they've been screwn all that time (and have no "real" power, as they don't live on "K-, and Wall-" street, to overthrow the corpo-f....$t mob).

[bigtree]

4. It would be like getting pregnant after a rape

[trumad]

5. I said it once before--- I'm glad we weren't.

[Raven]

6. Probably never would have happened given what idiots these

people are but if Bush had been successful in Iraq, there would probably have been less deaths. Having said that, I hate to say that we sould be thankful that he wasn't successful because he would have taken on Iran (and still may) and on and on and on. I guess we have our brave, dead soldiers to thank for helping to stop this man...certainly not our politicians!

[Kelly Rupert]

7. It would have been fucking fantastic.

If the stated goals had been achieved, it would have been wonderful. Iraq would have been a stable, functional democracy; a land where human rights flourished. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan would have instituted systematic democratic reforms. North Korea, sensing its time was next, would have laid down its nuclear plans. The Palestinians would elect a representative government with a primary interest in peace and reconciliation, as would have the Israelis, now that the nations around the two were totally committed to peace.

I dunno. I think that might be worth Bush having a larger ego.

[bigtree]

8. and if we all clapped our hands

tinkerbell wouldn't die

[Kelly Rupert]

9. Since the stated hypothetical was

"what if the Iraq plan succeeded," and since that was the neocon prediction beforehand, I don't really see what's wrong here. Obviously it wasn't going to happen, but the OP asked "what if it did?" And the obvious answer is a far better world.

[bigtree]

13. the 'plan' was a ruse, a lie, a fantasy laced with jingoistic predictions of 'success'

but, go on . . . don't let me wake you from your dream

[Kelly Rupert]

21. Not my dream. PNAC's.

I'm surprised you can't dissociate "Person explaining what the neocon fantasy was" and "person believing in the neocon fantasy."

[WinkyDink]

10. "Successful" meaning WHAT? Taking over, installing a puppet "government",

stealing the oil/resources??

I'd say we pretty near "succeeded", except for the fact the people HATE US and will NEVER stop killing our soldiers.

[liberal N proud]

11. Success? What would have been success in Iraq?

Since the war was waged over lies of weapons of mass destruction, the true reason for the attack has never been shared publicly.
So we don't even know how bu$h and co. would define success.

I suspect for bu$h and Cheney, success would have been full control of the oil. They didn't get that and they are now going to make us pay with higher gas prices.

Success was not on the table when we attacked Iraq.

[Double T]

12. dictators are never successful in the end and bushco will be no different...........

there is no way for him to spin his way out of the disastrous mess he and his fellow neocon henchmen have created.

[youngdem]

14. If we had 'won', whatever that would look like, we would be waist deep in Iran

[Warren Stupidity]

15. They have been very successful.

I think that the cabal has met at least 90% of its goals in Iraq. They've moved their mesopotamian base from saudi arabia to Iraq. They've kept the Iraqi oil off the market for another six years. They've laid the foundations for an attack on Iran with military bases and forces on either side of that nation, and a huge fleet in the gulf. They have made certain that their 'long war' will not end anytime soon. They have drained that hideous surplus right out of our treasury and straight into their pockets.

In what respect have they not been successful? Do you really think they thought there were WMD in Iraq? Did you really think that they thought there was any connection between the Saddam regime and the saudi agent bin laden? Do you believe that they really thought that the Iraqi people would welcome them with flowers and that peace and democracy would break out? I don't.

[baldguy]

16. Take the neocons at their word: They HAVE been successful in Iraq.

And in America, too. Death; chaos; both the Saudis and Iranians looking over their shoulder; the second largest oil exporter no longer exports oil; Halliburton, Carlysle, Blackwater and the other corporate oligarchs get unimaginably huge govt contracts for doing practically nothing; multiple trillions of dollars have been transfered from the poor & the middle class to the uber-rich; dissenters face persecution, public ridicule from major media outlets and in some cases criminal prosecution; neocon voting machine manufacturers have taken over the election process in the majority of districts ... And they've been able to install loyal Bushies in key govt positions to ensure permanent Republican control of America.

Unless we fight back.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

17. I assume by "successful" you mean "things went easily" or were a "cakewalk", i.e.

the Iraqis never really fought back, there were only a few hundred U.S. deaths with 40K soldiers patrolling the country in complete control, with a puppet government sanctioning the U.S. siphoning off billions in oil money into the U.S. treasury and the pockets of Republican oil execs, and the total costs were less than a hundred billion.

I've thought about this a lot. Human nature being what it is, most Americans would still be on the Bush bandwagon big time, and the minority Democrats would probably be too timid to offer any real opposition to the steady march to dictatorship. All the machinery (voting machines, U.S. attorneys, and the rest) for insuring permanent one party Republican rule would be installed without any scrutiny or publicity.

This is no doubt what Rove and Bush were shooting for when they decided to do this. They got the first part of their agenda (Republican congress majority, cowed everyone for a while), but their manifest incompetence both with respect to Iraq and Katrina revealed them and stripped them of their support, steadily downhill for them since.

They're still trying to win through cheating the electoral process, though.

In other words I basically agree with your premise. It's scary, and the story isn't over yet.

[Greyhound]

18. We have been successful in Iraq, probably beyond the expectations of the architects

of this crime against humanity.

The entire region is destabilized, the price of oil has tripled, oil company profits have set new records every quarter since arbusto's_® coup was carried out, the US treasury is completely depleted and our future is mortgaged to the hilt.

We are reviled everywhere in the world, The Constitution has been rendered impotent, the electorate is so divided that consensus not even attempted anymore, the sheeple are willing to surrender and and all of their rights just to relieve the pain for a little while.

What else could they have ever hoped for?

[porphyrian]

19. If WE were successful, there would have been no Iraq.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and so far, this administration has been successful - we haven't even slowed them down.

[DFW]

20. What would have constituted "successful?"

Even assuming the impossible: Iraq would have turned into
a secular oil-rich version of Switzerland with money and
peace and ethnic harmony all around, then what?

The theocracies and dictatorships that surround Iraq would
have looked on in panic as their way of life (and control
of their respective elites) would have looked on in abject
panic and seen us as their worst enemies.

We STILL would not be in Iran. We would be financing their
opposition, as we are now, but we would not march in there.
Republicans are essentially cowards. They do not start shooting
at people they know would shoot back (their big miscalculation in
Iraq--where WAS that goddamned cakewalk, anyway?). Iran would
shoot back. North Korea would shoot back. Even if we did turn
Iraq into the Switzerland of Mesopotamia, the surrounding countries
would be having none of it, and any incursion into Iran or North
Korea would have meant tens of thousands of American deaths a year.
No administration would have survived that one, no matter HOW many
flags they manage to wave.

Bush had a free ride after Sept. 11th. Instead of growing into
something he never was, he stayed the phony he always was. There
was no way a team with their incompetence and corruption was going
to be "successful" at anything other than that which they already
knew how to do: lie, steal, and lie about it some more--which indeed
they did.