Did I ever tell y'all the story about Mormons baptizing my ( Southern Baptist ) Dad posthumously?

[AzDar]

Believe it or not, they did.
When I met my now-Hubby in 1994, my Dad had just been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. Pops was told in January of 1994
that he MIGHT have 3 months to live.
He fought like a tiger until August.

Although I had just met David (a longtime non-practicing Mormon)at that time, he was by my side in an absolutely remarkable way; he carried my Dad from room to room, and even helped arrange medical treatments not covered by Dad's insurance.
Now, David comes from a very well-respected family of Mormons here in Arizona, and they were so incredibly warm and supportive (I don't have much family here of my own),that I'm grateful to this day.

Fast-forward to 2000. David and I have married, and have a little boy. I am vehemently non-religious, and my Mormon In-Laws seem to tolerate my views quite well. I let my Mother-In-Law take my son to the Temple to teach him about their religion on the condition that they not, at any time, express to him that the LDS Church is superior to any other church. It seems to work...
That is, until one Father's day.
I was lamenting the loss of my Dad, and my 5-year-old says "it's okay, Mom, you're going to see Grandpa again in the Celestial Kingdom."
"Whaaat?" says I.
"Grandma and Grandpa told me that you were so upset when Grandpa died, that they thought it would be a good idea to make sure you'd see him again, so they baptized him for you."
And so, after a few hysterical, then furious, phone calls, I determined that they indeed, had held some sort of ceremony during which my Dad (who thought Mormonism a cult) was 'made' a Mormon shortly after David and I were married.
Turns out it isn't uncommon.

I was so appalled and angry that I didn't speak to them for over a year. Think about it:
this is a religion whose members are so thoroughly self-righteous, that they feel comfortable baptizing people without that person's knowledge or consent; after all, they are the 'one, true Church' and damn it, that means THEY KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU. Just a little something to think about before next year's election.
'President Romney'...the very thought makes my head hurt.
By the way,I suspect they might've Mormonized me without permission, but I've been afraid to ask without paramedics standing by.

[matcom]

1. I'm so sorry. We lived in Salt Lake for a while

the do this to (rightfully) claim they are the fastest growing religion.

they steal souls without asking.

I'm sorry.

[AzDar]

2. The hubris is unbelievable! I have a feeling my Dad would laugh his ass

off, but STILL....

[matcom]

4. oh you can bet he is laughing right now

he is reading this and cannot WAIT for the replies!

:hug:

[benddem]

45. they baptized my grandfather

and the only time he went to church was for his funeral. I asked the people at the LDS church, "What if he didn't want to be baptized?" Oh they answered..."He could say no." Up in heaven I guess where everyone walks around in the body they had on earth and I guess they think he could just say "No."
It really is a strange religion.

[tammywammy]

5. I don't think they steal souls

Because, after I die, let's say they baptize me. I'll never truly Mormon, because I don't believe in the golden plates and such.

I think maybe in their minds they have converted them, but if you're baptized but never follow the faith how can you be Mormon?

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Heh heh. Soul lifting. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Is that true? I mean, do you know for a fact that Mormonism

is "the fastest growing religion" simply because they're baptising all these dead people?

If so, :rofl:

Here I thought it was all those boys on bicycles, two by two, making converts.

[tammywammy]

3. Yeah

They baptize like 20 names at a time. It's very strange. Apparently they think if they baptize them, then it give the person a choice after death to learn the truth and become Mormon.

What's most unsettling, is that they were "baptizing" Jews that died in the Holocaust, until it was found out and they stopped.

They have an underground space where they store the millions of names.

I think a lot of Mormonism is strange, but this is the strangest.

[AzDar]

11. That is why when I see Mitt's plastic-like head on the teevee, I can't help but ponder

what Joe and Josephine Middle-America will think when they find out the finer points of his religion.

[tammywammy]

16. I've read a bit on Mormonism

It's interesting, but it's not like I'll be converting, ever.

And it's not just the finding golden plates that I find strange, but all the little things...like only wearing white in the temple, baptizing the dead, etc.

But considering that I'm Christian (Methodist), I can see how believing that someone rose from the dead is strange too. :)

[Frustratedlady]

35. What do the gold plates mean?

I know a little about Mormonism, but not that much. That phrase threw me.

[tammywammy]

38. That's where the book of Mormon came from

An angel came down and told Smith where the plates were hidden. Eventually he went and was allowed to get them and translated them. That became the Book of Mormon. That's the jist of the story.

[Frustratedlady]

42. Thank you for the explanation.

I know just enough about Mormons to be dangerous.

[havocmom]

76. Tell 'em the angel's name. That's the part I like

:bounce:

[MADem]

29. Most folks fixate on the underwear -- I believe they call them "temple garments"

They're the oddest looking things...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

53. They're called "garmies" in slang. Supposed to protect you from harm.

And you're supposed to wear them ALL THE TIME under your undies,except when bathing or having sex. Must be hell in the heat in Utah.

[ithacan]

60. even stranger is this:

they believe god is a being who used to be a physical person, and who now rules over Earth, but also that each Mormon, when they die, will get their own planet to rule over...

[havocmom]

77. Promises of control...

But, if everyone gets their own planet to rule, and you have baptized just about everyone anyone could name, who do you get to be the boss of?

Just never could follow the logic of it all.

[SmokingJacket]

6. But if you don't believe in it, so what?

Apparently the reason the LDS church is so into genealogy is so they posthumously baptize ALL the dead people. They're not taking anyone's soul -- unless the person gives it to them.

They can go ahead and "baptize" me if they want. It won't do a thing for me, though.

[AzDar]

15. It's the aspect of self-righteousness that alarms me. How apeshit

would they (Mormons) go if they found out that they were posthumously being 'baptized' into Islam? Or Buddhism?

[madeline_con]

74. Maybe you should mention you could do that to them.

:evilgrin:

[peacetalksforall]

7. THEY NEVER ASK PERMISSION! Unless they have to take books and

documents away for photographing and recording from formal depositories. They have nerve that is unforgiving. They go all over the world and copy all the records they can access to - unsuspecting caretakers of all kinds. Then 'bless' the souls and elevate them.

[Donnachaidh]

8. They do that ALL the time -- why do you think they gather records

worldwide? It ain't out of the goodness of their hearts. They believe they have the right to baptize by proxy, and have been working on it for DECADES.

Not too long ago, a group of Holocaust survivors had to take them to court, to have a group of holocaust victims *un-baptized* from the Mormon Church. They had to be SUED to do this.

I personally hope my relatives who have been baptized by proxy burns their celestial heaven to the ground. They fought long and hard to practice the religion of their choice. If there is a celestial heaven, they may rue the day they snapped up my folks. :evilgrin:

[murielm99]

9. I'm not surprised about the baptism.

But Mormons aren't the only ones who think they are the one true church, and who think they know what is best for you. I have born-again parents. They know by now that if they thump their Bibles at me, they won't see me again for a long time. And I am not anti-religious. I am a liberal Christian, United Methodist.

Some years ago, a friend of mine went to the Mormons for some genealogy research. Apparently they keep very good genealogical records. They baptized her dead relatives, and she was furious when she found out. I understand that now they promise not to do that when people go to them for genealogy research. But I wonder...

[tammywammy]

12. Well, it's not like anyone will know if they're really not doing it

Non-Mormons aren't allowed in the Temple.


They do keep great genealogical records though, and of course, the baptism is part of the reason.

[Critters2]

39. Baptism is the entirety of the reason. nt

[Donnachaidh]

17. they promise LOTS of things -- but refuse to show non-Mormons

records that are SEALED in the Temple. THAT is where the promise ends, and the lies are found.

[AzDar]

23. Exactly. Most religions hold themselves to be the 'one, true' religion.

There aren't any others, though, to my knowledge, who deign to 'induct' people without their consent.
That demonstrates a whole different level of disrespect for other religions, imnsho.

[canetoad]

10. Several years back

when the Mormons launched their huge internet geneaology database, I heard the real reason behind their exhaustive interest in family history was an intent to retro-baptise every person who has lived. Don't know if this 100% accurate or an urban legend. Nothing I could find on Snopes.

[annabanana]

57. self delete

[rug]

13. That's terrible. I'll make a novena for you.

[AzDar]

24. Thank you. Can't have my soul, though...I think the LDS have dibs.

:rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

14. They've baptized millions of Holocaust victims too.

I wonder if they did the Mountain Meadows victims, too?

[tammywammy]

20. Hum, that is something to think about

Since LDS tends to shy away from that event. Baptising them would have to be an ultra-secret.

[iverglas]

54. They've apparently stopped that

http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon43.html
(2001)

...The Mormon Church agreed to remove hundreds of names of Jewish luminaries from its genealogical records last month after they were spotted by a keen-eyed researcher.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center was alerted to the problem by Helen Radkey, a Salt Lake City genealogist, who found Jewish names in the Church's database including Moshe Dayan, the Israeli war hero; Golda Meir, Israel's first female prime minister; Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism; and Holocaust victim Anne Frank and more than a dozen of her relatives.

"They did not get baptized when they were alive and they had a choice, and doing so after they are dead is beyond the ethical bounds," said Aaron Breitbart, a researcher with the Wiesenthal centre. "They are also showing a tremendous insensitivity to the living."

... Jewish groups first approached the Church in 1995, demanding that Jews be removed. As a result of the agreement, the Church no longer includes the names of Jewish Holocaust victims in its genealogy databases unless they are submitted by a direct descendant.

Jewish groups have also complained about how wide the Church casts its net looking for lost souls. People baptized into the faith include Adolf Hitler and his henchmen Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler, all of whom have been removed from the Church's files.

A Mormon's own salvation depends on doing this, for their own ancestors, is the thing.

I've run into family trees on genealogy websites (see my post below) that included ancestors of mine, so I'm distantly related to the person who made the tree. Normally, I would contact them and exchange info -- but when I see the notation on the tree that the ancestor in question has been baptized Mormon, I click on by.

[peacetalksforall]

18. I get so upset about this that I explode - I wish I hadn't read this thread.

After several years of knowing this it still angers me and go off the wall. It's got to be the number 1, 2 or 3 ultimate form of invsion of privacy and soul history. Here I go - I'm furious - again. Talk about arrogant and imposing and outright thievery of justice and history. They might as well rewrite the obitutaries and rename the cemetaries. I gotta read something else.

[uppityperson]

22. What I hate is people waving their hands without asking, "fixing" my aura

seriously. I don't believe they do anything, but the intrusion pisses me off. Get out of my space.

[knitter4democracy]

61. That happened to me once.

He didn't ask permission, and it totally creeped me out.

[Chovexani]

69. That -is- an intrusion

I've been a practicing Witch for going on 11 years, and think people who do that are appalling and not true healers (and I think most of the folks in the Astro group would back me up on this one). One of the cardinal rules of any kind of energy work is that you have the person's permission first.

A true healer doesn't interfere with a person's will.

[lynne]

19. I'm into genealogy -

- and can tell you that the LDS baptizing everyone is very common. It doesn't matter what religion the person is or even if they've already been baptized - they do it anyway. BTW - the LDS ancestor records are rotten. Bad research and wrong family information so they're baptizing the wrong people anyway! Anyone into family history, stay away from the LDS Family Files if you really want to find your ancestors!

[dragonlady]

43. Mormon records are a great source of primary records

They have filmed things like parish records in churches around the world, so you can trace your ancestors back through the generations. Also their collection of records like censuses, ship passengers, and citizenship applications is extremely helpful. If these films weren't indexed and available to borrow from their collection, you'd likely never see them. And I've never heard one word of proselytizing when I've gone to the local LDS church to do research.

That said, it is creepy to think that they are baptizing people without their knowledge. I think they sincerely believe they are doing a mitzvah, but it should stop.

[lynne]

50. Oh, yes, the primary records are great -

- it's the Family Files contributed by members that are not to be trusted. Also, they will not correct the Family File errors even with documented primary evidence. This just perpetuates the incorrect data as other researchers pick it up and spread the bad files like wildfire.

[uppityperson]

21. Being of the opinion that each of us can only baptize yourself, still can see your upset

I think that we can each be baptized by our own selves. It is an individual's decision and choice to make, there is no "one right way" to do it, and it means different things to different people. If anyone wants to do whatever over my dead body (respectfully) and it makes them feel better, whatever. It is not me, I am me.

That said, I can see the anger at the self righteousness. However, I truly do not believe that someone baptizing me will affect me in any manner.

[peacetalksforall]

25. Do you think they sold their data to Poindexter to populate the

database? What a mothrlode for the right wing contingent who want to use databases to control the world.

[NNadir]

26. On the other hand, it didn't hurt your dad.

My opposition to Romney has nothing to do with him being a Mormon. It has everything to do with him being a Republican.

Harry Reid, I believe, is a Mormon.

I am an atheist, and my children are atheists, but we don't push the matter with our religious family, many members of whom are fine people. What's the point? They pray around us and for us all the time. So what? I'm glad they love me enough to care for me in their own ways. If I die and they have a religious funeral for me, it wouldn't mean a hill of beans, because frankly, I'd be dead.

I believe that your husband's family treated your father with respect and love and caring when he was alive. Surely that is worth something. If I were in a position to give you advice, it would be this: Forgive and forget and tolerate. Tell your son your views, but expect him to develop the skill to think for himself. That is far more important than any religion.

[tammywammy]

28. Yes, Reid is Mormon n/t

[Solo_in_MD]

31. But a non serious one...

[tammywammy]

32. But, he does still classify himself as Mormon

So he hasn't given it up entirely. :)

[Hamlette]

34. I beg to differ, Reid is a serious mormon

he's anti abortion and religious. Mormons come in many flavors, some more wing nutty than others. I live in Utah and have known liberal Democrats who are mormons and very good people (Hi Mike!)

[SoCalDem]

47. My youngest son is a bit miffed that we did NOT have him baptized as a baby

I was raised Catholic, and could have had him baptized in a snap of a finger, but chose not to impose religion upon him..and wouldn't you know it..he's marrying a girl from a VERY Catholic family and now he'll have to attend "classes"..:rofl:

He's willing to do it for her, but he's kind of wishing we had baptized him as a baby :)

[NNadir]

49. That's amusing.

I had my oldest son baptised to placate my family, but not my youngest.

To the oldest baptised I had to attend church for several months. I really tried, and there were even one or two sermons that were interesting, but overall it was an insufferable experience. They were always hitting me up for money.

I just couldn't do it the second time out. If my oldest grows up and wants to marry into some religion, it's his problem, not mine.

My father was able to get married in a Catholic church without being baptised, but he had been baptised in another Christian church. (My step mother was a very devout widow.) My father converted to Catholicism on his death bed, and I was very happy he did this, because it gave my stepmother great peace. Since she was a loving wife, I felt she deserved as much.

[MADem]

27. That's what the Jews were griping about.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/12/10/baptizing.the.dead.ap/

They try to make it as though they're doing the dead a "favor." I find it reprehensible, and I frankly think they deserve a beating for doing it:

Mormons believe proxy baptisms give those in the afterlife the option of joining the religion. It's primarily intended to offer salvation to the ancestors of Mormons, but many others are included.

Baptisms for the dead are performed inside Mormon temples, with a church member immersed in water in place of the deceased person. Names of the deceased are gathered by church members from genealogy records as well as death and governmental documents from around the world.

"For Latter-day Saints, the practice of proxy baptism is a means of expressing love and concern for those who have preceded us. It is a freewill offering," Bills said. ...Independent researcher Helen Radkey, who prepared a report for Michel, is certain the agreement has been broken. In her research of the church's extensive genealogical database, she found at least 20,000 Jews -- some of whom died in Nazi concentration camps -- were baptized after they died.

"There shouldn't be one single death camp record in those files," Radkey said.

Radkey has been researching Jews included in the Mormon databases since 1999, when she found Anne Frank and her extended family listed as being baptized.

And how's THIS for Moxie???

Also among those baptized posthumously by the church, according to Radkey's research: Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha.

[kineneb]

64. if there is an afterlife

the Buddha has got to laughing his ass off... like getting dipped in some water, by proxy could affect someone's karma...

seems to fail the "right understanding" and "right action" of the Eightfold Path...

[Solo_in_MD]

30. Do you still allow you inlaws religious access to your child?

I would have shunned them for what they are clearly injecting into his head

[AzDar]

40. No, I don't. Our relationship is rather awkward now, and that's unfortunate

for everyone involved. Ahhhh, religion..the great uniter, huh?

[Hamlette]

33. according to mormon doctrine you aren't supposed to baptise the dead without

permission from a direct descendant. Apparently your inlaws told the church they had your permission (or, perhaps worse, your sons permission.) I'd be more mad that they misrepresented that they had permission to baptise your dad than that they did baptise him.

[tammywammy]

36. I doubt the decendants of

Anne Frank said she could be baptized.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. Joan d'Arc had no direct descendants and would certainly not be

pleased at being baptized a Mormon as she was a Catholic and is in fact Saint Joan d'Arc. I'm picturing her leading an army to Salt Lake City.

:evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

41. I'm skeptical about them asking permission for the thousands and

thousands of names they have collected (probably millions but I doubt we can get accurate numbers so I'll stick with "thousands and thousands.")

I'm glad they have a rule that requires them to get family permission to do proxy baptisms but wonder how closely it's followed. They gather names of dead people from many sources and I can't imagine that they can find all their families to ask permission or that they even try. Perhaps you were raised in the LDS and know more about this.

I have always assumed that the Mormons have baptised me and all my family, which is funny, nice that they care, and annoying as hell all at once.

I'd be happier about them baptizing everybody they can if I were convinced they'd share their food in case of disaster. (They all store a one to three year supply of food for their own family.)

[Hamlette]

51. it was very controversial with the holocaust baptisms

the church said they would be more careful. They were caught again and said they would purge their records and be more careful of baptising anyone with a "Jewish name."

I was raised here in Utah but not as a mormon. I do have cousins who are Mormon (the black sheep). When my aunt died the mormon cousins asked her kids if they could do a proxy baptism and were told no. I don't think they did it.

The doctrine is confusing on the issue to say the least. The mormons say if you didn't know about mormonism (were born before it was "invented") you need to be baptised by proxy or you can't get to the highest kingdom of heaven. But if you did have a chance to convert during your life and didn't, proxy won't help but they still want to baptise those of us who knew about it and rejected it all our lives.

I've hardened on the issue as I've gotten older.

[DemBones DemBones]

68. I read about that when it happened. . . Jehovah's Witnesses have

a similar view that if you didn't know about the Witnesses, there's a loophole for you. Of course, they believe that only 144,000 get to be with Jesus in Heaven (all of them Witnesses, of course, and all places already taken) while the rest of the Witnesses will inherit "Paradise Earth."

The rest of us will have our flesh fall off and our eyeballs rot while we're walking around, among other joyful event.

They have all this gory stuff in their books for children (I have personally thrown two of these gift books away) and if you happen to have Witness neighbors and let your kids play with theirs, they'll be glad to read them these stories.

:grr:

[nini]

A cousin of mine went from being a Catholic to a Mormon

He baptised everyone who came before him. My paternal grandparents are most likely spinning in their graves as they were devout Catholics.

It's an odd practice but then he did get some great geneology records :D

[Donnachaidh]

62. They probably didn't even try -- here's HOW

They can get off that *permission* bit by just stating that the person asking for the baptism is a direct descendant. Nowhere in there rules is there ANY rule that they must seek out ALL living descendants. They just need ONE, and a genealogical search will show that one connection.

I have a family line that broke off and became Mormoms. They have been doing the family connection so that they can baptise the entire line. I have asked them for copies of their research where we join, but have never gotten copies, just a lot of foot dragging and excuses. I'm pretty much convinced that they don't want to give me the info because they have already submitted my ancestry for the sealing.

[havocmom]

75. My cousin gave the OK for my uncle and my dad, neither of whom would have been in favor

If someone wanted to be baptized they could have had it done (unless died in infancy). The very thought of some idiot descendant approving of a posthumous baptism is horrible. The theory that it matters is ludicrous.

It might have tickled some Mormon cleric that my cousin was so intent on pleasing his new wife that he had a pair of agnostics baptized after they were dead (the ONLY way it would have happened, I guaranteed) but I doubt any deity would take it as a legitimate contract! And if it is possible for the shades to haunt the living, I hope my uncle and father are making Idiot Cousin's life a circus!

Free will? If you are baptizing after death, aren't you blaspheming the allegedly god-given gift of free will, direct descendant or no.

[Critters2]

37. They did the same thing to my Grandmother

She was so committed to her Disciples of Christ heritage that she had prepared communion for worship the day before she died. That had been her "job" at church since my father was a child. And she did it right to the end--at the age of 88. She took great pride in the fact that her granfather had been baptized by Barton Stone, one of the founders of the Disciples church. She would no more have chosen to be a Mormon than I'd be a Repug.

Yet, some neighbors of hers submitted her name to someone at the temple in Nauvoo, and she's been "baptized". This infuriates me, because it is so disrespectful of her faith and her choice.

Of course, when I'm rational I know it means nothing. But I do find it disrespectful, of a woman who was deserving of nothing but respect.

[Sydnie]

48. When my mother passed away in 2001, my aunt ( a mormon)

pushed all of her kids out of the way and took over the arrangements for her funeral. No matter what we said, she was going to do things her way. She ended up arranging for a mormon funeral for my mother who was no more a mormon than she was a circus clown! We were not allowed to have any input into anything, not the service, not the published death notices .... nothing!

As a child I was often sent to spend weeks with her over the summer and attended her church with her because, well, I was never given a choice, I just was told I had to so I did. At the time, the church was located in a building next to my uncles gas station. I think he owned the building and rented it to the church, then donated the money as part of his 10% commitment to the church!

At one point my brother was staying with them as well. He met a girl at my aunt's church and over the course of the summer he allowed them to baptize him in the church. When the girl and the summer were over, so was his interest in my aunt's church. I am sure that when he passed away in 2005, although my aunt was told not to attend the funeral or even visit the funeral home at all due to her total disregard for us when our mother died, she must have had a prayer service for him at her church all the same.

Imagine how many of us have been "saved" by being listed in the rolls that are being kept in the tunnels in Utah?

As for me, I could never get past the "magic underwear" (yes, that's what I called it even back then to her face) with a straight face so she knew that she could never win me over the way she did my brother. If there hadn't been a girl involved, she never would have gotten to him either.

As I learned about their church as a child, I shut down to it completely once I understood just how racist they really were. Frankly, it made me sick to even think about it. I stopped spending summers with her after that ... bet that had something to do with it, don't you?

[iverglas]

52. my former church extracted an agreement from them *not* to do this

That was the United Church of Canada, and I suspect other churches have done the same thing. Really, how could the Mormons actually refuse such a request? "Our members do not wish to be baptized in your church after they die"; "Fuck off". Wouldn't look really good on them.

So I figure I'm protected, even though I've been an atheist since I was old enough to think straight, since I was christened in the UCC as a baby. ;)

Hey, there's an idea. If your spouse wants your kids to be baptized in some religion and you don't want any part of the whole horrible religion thing, go along with it. At least it will keep them out of the Mormons' clutches for eternity!

The danged thing about this is how Mormons have taken over the genealogy biz. They are mad for family history, because they posthumously baptize every ancestor they dig up (as it were). So along the way, they have built up huge resources that are, of course, useful for anyone else doing genealogy. They own the Ancestry network of websites and databases (transcribed census and birth/marriage/death records from public records), and their familyhistory.org and physical archives are huge. So if you're into genealogy research, you love 'em and hate 'em.

What's hilarious, and beyond annoying to people like me who use them, are some of the errors in their databases. The transcribers are at fault for many of them -- many just nonsense, but many others mistranscribed as obscenities. Mercy Fucker, a young women who allegedly lived in 19th century England, is my favourite of them. I am also fond of Francis Pukes Montoger, who allegedly lived on the island of Jersey. (Nimrod Squelch, on the other hand, was a real person.)

The seriously annoying one is probably a result of their software rather than transcriber error: every time the male head of household was absent from the home on census night, and the first name that appears on the household record is a woman listed as "wife", she is attached to the closest male head of household preceding her, and her and her children's surname is ignored (so no descendant paying Ancestry for access is likely ever to find them by searching the database). Men (including my great-grandfather, in one census database) end up with two or three wives and multiple children in two or three households. Apparently Mormonism was much more common in 19th century England than anyone would have imagined!

Anyhow, yes: what your in-laws did was appallingly disrespectful. But they'd never see it that way, obviously. Kinda like people who tell us atheists they're praying for us, and think they're being kind.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

55. Do NOT give your full name, or full names of your relatives, to ANY Mormon.

I had a Jewish friend who used to live in Phoenix. She said the Mormons bugged her and her sisters for the names of their deceased ancestors so they could baptise them by proxy. This was long before the Jewish lawsuit. It annoyed her.

It would annoy me too!!! :grr:

[Ilsa]

56. Hey AzDar, I am so sorry they put you through this. It is bad enough

to deal with grief, but to have the problems compounded by their insensitivity is obscene.

I get your point about Romney. I wouldn't vote for him anyway, but I have to say that I don't know if I could vote for a Dem who is Mormon. I guess it sounds bigoted, but I know too much about Mormonism (from ex-Mormons) and how superior they think their religion is. I couldn't trust a Mormon lead this country fairly.

[AzDar]

65. Thanks, Ilsa. I couldn't vote for a Dem who was LDS either. It's an

all-encompassing religion that permeates the lives of it's adherents, making it impossible ( I think) to separate Church Doctrine from everyday life.
Mitt Romney scares me specifically because he seems to be trying awfully hard to sell his I-may-be-a-Mormon-but-it-means-nothing-move-along-nothing-to-see-here shtick.
Thankfully, he's a buffoon and seems to trip over himself quite a bit...

[Ilsa]

58. There are some ex-mormon websites out there. They explain all

of the weird cultish things they do, including the veil ceremony and the one with the poncho where you are naked under it. They believe men become gods after in heaven and that there are celestial marriages. I think the practice of baptizig people after death and against their wishes is arrogant.

[DemBones DemBones]

67. They are really interesting to read, especially about

weddings in the Temple and how scared the women were about being bathed and dressed by total strangers and then sitting in a room full of other brides and their grooms, all dressed in weird clothes where I guess they were prayed over. As I recall, the young women (and probably the men) are told nothing about what's going to go on.

It made my memory of ordinary wedding jitters seem really pleasant!

[Ilsa]

71. That is probably why they indoctrinate them very young about

how great it is to have a temple wedding and celestial marriage -- to overcome the disgust over invasion of personal boundaries perpetrated in the joining and wedding ceremonies.

[Dorian Gray]

59. Eh...

I know it might feel like a violation to you (and to many others), but I can't get my knickers knotted up over it. I don't believe in Mormonism, and I don't believe that their baptism is valid. I was baptized in the Catholic Church, so if they were to baptize me posthumously, it would mean nothing. They don't actually go digging your body up and dunking it into water. (Which I would find a GROSS violation.) To me, it means nothing, so I guess I don't have a problem with the practice at all.

[nealmhughes]

66. Well, to fight fire with fire, I had a whole bottle of 04 Ravenswood Cab and a big slab of bread,

earlier this evening, the Cab was right on the review, nice little bottle for $10 and the bread was fantastic, a great challah, but I digress, so I decided ex post facto, that it was a communion service dedicated to the repose of the souls of Mr. and Mrs. and Mrs. and Mrs. and Mrs. and Mrs. . . etc. Joseph Smith!

[Hekate]

70. You may have to figure out something else to do with your son on Sundays.

You may have to figure out something else to do with your son on Sundays. When I was seven or eight I tagged along with fundie neighbors until my mom found out the church had prayed over me because my parents >gasp< drank alcohol. :rofl: for the Demon Rum! After that mom just made sure I was too busy to go to church with them.

As for the Mormons, that's what those massive geneological records are all about: "enrolling the world".

The Jews objected pretty vehemently, and I can't say I blame them.

I think it's kind of goofy, but as long as they don't go around "updating" the records used for research I don't care. My ancestors were mostly Roman Catholic, with an Irish Quaker thrown in for seasoning, and it WOULD be offensive if the records were amended with whiteout, but as far as I know they don't go that far.

Good luck!

Hekate

[Ilsa]

73. I tend to agree with you, Hekate, on your first recommendation:

the indoctrination starts young and they are trying to get his brain into a mindset he won' be able toeasily shake off later. They'll tell him his mother is wrong about all of this stuff, and if he gets the cultish support of enough friends and pressure from family, he'll have a rough time, emotionally, with getting out, I bet. But my prognostications are just guesses. Anything can happen.

[madeline_con]

72. Does that really make him a Mormon, though?

That is, in the eyes of anyone who isn't?

Think of it as a moment when someone says they'll put you on their paryer list, for example, and you may be an atheist. Does their magic spell really do any harm, or good, in your eyes?


I can understand your fury. At the same time, it was done to make THEM feel better, not for you.

There is one thing: Does your son bewlieve that without that, he'd never see your father again? Does he believe he'll not see you "in the Kingdom" if this is not done to you?

It sounds like they DID make their religion seem superior to all others, even in your son's eyes.


Happy Mother's Day. :)

[TheCentepedeShoes]

78. My mom and her second husband

did this to my late Dad and her dad. Both were raised S. Baptist, Dad having become pretty much non-religious, Granddad a deacon in his church.
That's who they were. Neither were ill-informed on the spiritual options available, as my Mom claimed they must have been to not have become Mormons on their own. Mom saw it as doing them some big "favor" that they could opt out of later. I see it as a denial of their reality, their authenticity and not respecting who they are. I'm big on people finding their own center, whether a spiritual component is involved or not. Mom has always been big on control, so I see this more about her need to feel in charge of others' destiny.