The Democrats could have created a multi-decade dynasty

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

If they had had the integrity and strength and leadership to investigate and prosecute the multitudinous crimes that occurred under W.

They chose not to. They preferred that we all look forward and not back - just forget about all those transgressions and assaults on the Constitution and the civil liberties of all Americans.

If and when the Dems lose the majorities to their cranky and contentious traditional foes, the Republicans, they will find no similar reluctance to deploy subpoenas and institute Congressional investigations to disrupt the Democratic process and finish off a Democratic administration.

[Clovis Sangrail]

1. they done f**ked up /nt

[babylonsister]

2. Sure they could have, while the banks failed and the country

fell into a deep depression. Who would have cared while they were begging for food on soup lines and living in tent cities? It's still far from even fair for a lot of people, yet this should have been #1 on their agenda?

Sorry, I disagree. Reality does bite.

[zipplewrath]

3. False Dichotomy

Those weren't the only two choices by far. There were many scenarios that could have been pursued, some more audacious than others. The basic reason, I suspect, that the democrats had little interest in turning over much of that dirt, was that there were democrats buried under there too.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. Y'know, everybody says that, but there's actually very little to it

Think about how many corrupt Democrats have been uncovered with corrupt Republicans, and under the same circumstances -- they are certainly there, but only in small numbers. The Republicans are by far the overachievers in corruption.

My own theory is that Democrats know that there is a great amount of hysterical (irrational, crowd-propagated) timidity, and they can count on exactly NO support if they go out on a limb. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Our complaining about testicles, spines, and pink tutus really can't change that. The Republicans have a much more aggressive political culture.

Timid men are typically kept honest by fear. Aggressive men will push the limits as far as they can to see what they can get away with. That explains it a lot better . But it just doesn't let us fix the damage.

--d!

[zipplewrath]

22. These will be in the leadership

The problem here is that many of the names will be in leadership positions. Committee Chairs, and potentially the speaker herself. And then there are the folks in the White House that may have blood on their hands.

[Bandit]

15. Some people are able to chew gum and walk at the same time.

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

17. If you're suggesting this admin hasn't been full

throttle since they got in, I have a different opinion. I think they've been dancing as fast as they can to stay ahead of all the potential mine fields the boosh regime left in their wake. And then there are the hcr and finreg legislation they've been tackling.

I don't even think it's a question of walking and chewing gum.

[The Green Manalishi]

24. Respectfully, please tell me how

vigorously investigating, arresting and prosecuting those responsible for the financial meltdown would cause a depression?

And repealing DADT with one swift pen stroke on day one?

And declaring victory and coming home from Afghanistan and Iraq?


I do not see how these things, all of which were and are eminently accomplishable, would cause or even contribute to a depression.

Thanks.

[babylonsister]

26. Were you not paying attention? This country was headed

for a depression with or without an investigation, and we're still not out of the woods. Without TARP and the stimulus, we'd have no doubt gone down that rosy path, all thanks to idiot son. I wish he/they would be investigated, but Obama's plate was overflowing primarily because of the previous admin.

[OHdem10]

4. When Republicans get control, Issa is salivating for subpoena

power. He has said he will make charges against Administration.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

5. That's exactly my point. nt

[cali]

6. I doubt it. You forget how divided this country is.

[Lost4words]

7. This is so true, how could they get it so wrong!

they are so high on their own sucess, they cant see the forest for the trees.

[cali]

12. hypotheticals aren't fact.

[liberal N proud]

8. They could have destroyed the GOP forever

I think that is what they were afraid of. Then they would have had to be responsible adults.

[cali]

13. and you know this how?

[Jim Sagle]

19. Cut the bullshit. We ALL know this but some of us won't face it.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

10. Clinton did the same thing.

Lost History: Reagan-Bush Crime Syndicate

And the failure to prosecute means the traitors walk free and most Americans forget.

It's like a pattern or something.

[Donnachaidh]

28. They not only walk free, those who refused to prosecute them become BFFE!

Every time I see Clinton with Bush I my involuntary gagging kicks in.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Short Attenions Spans...

While I am all for a complete investigation of all the crimes of the previous regime and still believe they should be investigated and held accountable, but I never expected President Obama to do it nor even wanted him to. When he took office our economy, thanks to the booooosh regime, had tanked and the problems this administration has faced have been a full time and a half job. Since day one, this administration has been in react mode as one bombshell after another explodes. While they have handled some problems in ways I am not satisfied with, their priority has been to deal with the immediate problems rather than trying to go back and spend lots of time and money prosecuting the boooosh criminals.

Then I've never felt our judicial and political system could ever do a thorough job in investigating. These weren't just crimes against the people...these were crimes against humanity...the place where the world court should be taking the lead. The fact that no one, except for one judge in Spain have tried to look into these crimes, shows how little the world outside US borders seem to care about these crimes. If the world doesn't care, why should our government?

If the Democrats lose their majorities its due to their own timidity to tackle the power bases of the past regime...the banksters, the oil companies, insurance companies and so on. Prosecutions, especially failed ones, would have been not only a major distraction away from more serious matters but would have also hurt this administration and leglisative.

[ThomWV]

18. If the world doesn't care, why should our government?"

I think there is a good reason for 'our government' to care. We are our Government, it is nothing but 'we the people' and the crimes of the Bush years are a cancer upon us and its still here within us. If we can not isolate and remove it then you can bet it will be the death of us. The crimes of the Bush years continue to this day.

[KharmaTrain]

23. Can You Truly Examine Yourself???

The problem of "we the people" is that our government is inherently going to protect and preserve its own power, influence and history. Our legislative and judiciary are so politicized these days that true self investigation is all but impossible as its sure to step on the toes of some vested interest. Yes, our system is that corrupt that its now incapable of simple investigations into obvious fraud and corruption...where lawyers and money trump "we the people". The boooosh cancer was not the cause of the disease...a century of imperialism and materialism can be pointed to, what we saw was it metasizing and so widespread the illness is now considered the norm.

Yes, the booosh crimes continue and that's been a major problem for this current administration but there's no political will by anyone...legislative, administrative, judicial or the "fifth estate" to demand any accountability. Everything is so surface that when its outta sight its out of mind. It's why I've long held that the crimes of the boooosh era were best served in the world court where the true ramifacations of the crimes can be presented and away from the influence and filters of our own corrupt system. Unfortunately seems like all systems are corrupt...

Cheers...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

27. So you're just giving up on internal justice within the US?

Not that I don't understand your pessimism - (Citizens United has all but had me lying prostrate on the floor with a cloth on my face since it came out.) But I don't hang any hope on world courts - that would have already by now if it was going to happen. The British internal look at Iraq might pick up some steam. Tony Blair deserves a seat at the defense table right next to Bush and Cheney since the Brit buy-in gave an air of plausibility to the fake war for security.

But even so, even I, cynic that I am, believe that real reforms within our own country are possible. The only problem is that things have to get really really really bad before a complacent, ignorant and media manipulated population shakes themselves out of their stupor.

And that's the cue for the Deficit Commission to enter from stage right.

[KharmaTrain]

30. The Need To Preserve Power...

Unfortunately it hasn't gotten bad enough for people to work together on fixing problems...instead we are getting more polarized. All sides from the extreme right to left are entrenched in their own "realities" that shun any true compromise and have made all parts of our government dysfunctional. Citizens United only affects the political part, our judicial system has been corrupted by nearly 30 years of Raygun and boooosh appointed toadies who put business ahead of public interst and political gain ahead of true, non-partisan justice. The corruption of the DOJ under Fredo Gonzalez was the low point in this country and there are still plenty of leftovers that have made Holder walk on eggshells rather than launch investigations and prosecutions unless it's so overwhelming he's forced to. In some way I think he's still shellshock from the 90s when he was Janet Reno's top aide and had to endure one GOOP and corporate media witch hunt after another.

I wish real reforms are possible but we live in a very provincial world where priorities don't mesh and there are no simple solutions. What's important in an east coast urban setting isn't the same as someone in the south or west. Our non-stop campaign machine and the media that feeds from it thrive on division...wedges and this has led to a country that not only feels selective outrage, it feels entitled to it. There's very little long term thinking or planning anymore...just quick fixes that score political points.

It appears this country is going to need a refresher on how destructive and inept the rushpublicans are as this administration and many Democrats continue to be reactive rather than proactive.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. The Dems chose political expediency

as their sole excuse. Investigating and prosecuting the crimes of the Bush administration would be . . . messy and protracted, so let's just not do it. I honestly think it is just pathetic when people say that it would divert them from addressing more pressing issues. There AREN'T more pressing issues.

I also have to believe that governments (or at least functional ones) can do 2 things at once. Yes, the financial crisis was important - does anyone believe that it would not have been addressed while other investigations were ongoing? Does anyone believe that investigations would have put at risk Republican co-operation in legislating? Notice how they didn't co-operate with anything anyway, SO NOTHING WAS GAINED by issuing the Get Out Of Jail Free Card.

They (Dems) weren't up to the responsibility that was given to them as protectors and guardians of the Constitution, not to mention the entire moral ethos of the country, not to mention the concept of Rule of Law. I think they were gutless and conscienceless. I still do. I always will.

I will chuckle cynically once again when they find themselves on the receiving end of a deployment of power that they refused to use. Will I have sympathy? No. None.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

21. I imagine holding hearings in the setting of a bankrupt and failed nation

would have made for great theater, but not very good governing

[slipslidingaway]

25. knr nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. But..but...they are soooo busy. Funding lost wars, "reforming" social security,"compromising"...

busting unions, protecting the banks and insurance companies, appointing Republicans, and fighting off the pesky Left.

[glitch]

31. They aren't running the show.

Control the money supply you control the economy, control the economy you control the politicians.

Blame the Fed and those who run it, they are either holding the economy and "our" politicians hostage OR they are holding our economy hostage with the help of "their" politicians.

Either way, they run the place.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

33. They should have investigated everything.

From illegal wiretapping to torture. There should have been a thorough investigation into the faulty reasoning of invading Iraq. And there should have been a far more thorough investigation into the causes of the financial meltdown. Hell, they should have reopened an investigation into events leading up to 9/11.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

34. I hear this line of attack on the Dems here and elsewhere

However, I can't help but feel that it is simply much more complicated than President Obama and the Democrats not aggressively investigating and potentially prosecuting Bush, Cheney, and other members of their (mis-)administration. While I personally agree that every last one of those miscreants should be punished (and relegated to their own special place in hell) for what they did while in office, I have come to accept the fact that it is not likely to happen anytime soon (if ever), mostly because there is pretty much no way that the things that REALLY need to get done will get done, particularly considering how difficult it is already to just get the BASIC things done anymore- with practically every piece of legislation and procedural vote requiring 60 votes to get through because of the GOP's successful corruption of the filibuster. I hate it, it sucks, and it's not what really needs to happen but practical realities MUST come first IMHO. While it is almost certain that Bush, Cheney, and the rest of their (mis-)administration will never be seriously held accountable for their actions, the second best thing that can come of their misdeeds is that our leaders henceforth repudiate and reverse the decisions, policies, and philosophy that underpinned the Bush/Cheney (mis-)administration and, bit by bit, that seems to be what President Obama and the Democrats have done so far. There is plenty more work to be done on this and the Republicans will continue to attempt to drag us back into the muck but we seem to be headed back into the light under President Obama and the Democrats.
Also, I take issue with the assertion that the Republicans are enjoying a significant resurgence or "renaissance." They have some wind in their sails because of the "teabaggers", a rotten economy that is hurting Democratic incumbents by extension, and lots of enablers within the corporate media but, assuming the polls are accurate, people in general, aren't necessarily loving the Republicans much moreso than they did in 2006 and 2008 and the "teabaggers" have been somewhat of a "mixed blessing" for the GOP insofar as they have made some of their more likely gains in Congress much less so due to the extremism of many of the candidates. There are either a bunch of teabaggers running for office as the official GOP candidate or the more "mainstream" candidates are furiously trying to pander to them in order to win the primary and/or general election.
Rumors of the GOP's demise were also quite exaggerated after the last election and they will continue to win elections here and there no matter what (particularly in the south) but their electoral and demographic base is shrinking compared to the Democratic Party and the more they embrace the "teabaggers" and fundie freakazoids the more they will ultimately squeeze the moderates out of their party and narrow their electoral base further. The Democratic Party is poised for a long-term ascendancy- at which point it will probably branch off as well- but it's arguable as to whether prosecuting Buscho would have further accelerated the Republican Party's inevitable decline.