I realize that this is terribly "incorrect" politically and will undoubtedly indelibly

[Atticus]

brand me as a knuckle-dragger, but there really ARE people out there who are willing an able to destroy you and me and the only thing holding them in check, temporarily, is the nagging suspicion that some of us aren't the cliched pacifists we're supposed to be and may, in fact, hand them their ass if they start something.

It may be my "wrong side of the tracks" mentality coming to the surface, but it literally makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck to watch pus-bags like Breitbart and Limbaugh and Beck launch despicably false and malicious attacks against good people simply to capture a news cycle or two and throw some red meat to the Klansmen wannabes that make up the majority of the GOP's storm troopers nowadays.

It has been quite a while ago, but such offensive behavior was once addressed with a three-foot length of sawmill oak and several well-puncuated "If you EVER do that again---" warnings.

NO, I'm not advocating this type of response, but I am saying that strong emotions are being stirred and they are not all on the Teabagger side of the aisle. I will not seek confrontation, but I will not run from it, I will not "go quietly" and I will leave marks.

[supernova]

1. right there with you

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. You are of course right

but there is more to this, than just knuckle dragers. The Department of Truth is in full force and one reason they get away with it is... those who should... no, not you or me... we don't have the real power to use the metaphorical piece of wood... chose not to do that.


Oh and from now on, the propaganda machine has to be called by their rightful name, the INGSOC's Department of Truth... PERIOD!

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength."
"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past"

That is what we are dealing with. NO, not the fiction, the reality of it.

[Warpy]

3. My own inclination is to be a pacifist

but I know that real change often doesn't happen until violence breaks out, that totally peaceful demonstrations might shame a power structure into silence for a while, but it's only when that power structure starts to react violently, whether or not they're met with violence, that change starts to happen.

I've learned that lesson in a life full of desperate people trying to change things and I hate having to learn that lesson.

[Electric Monk]

4. Hello agent Mike, wherever (whoever) you are.

ibtl

[BrklynLiberal]

5. well said. How many times must we be victimized by the same crap?

[socialist_n_TN]

6. Once again Atticus, you and I agree

I will NOT be bullied and I WILL defend myself if attacked. And guess what? This is one old leftie that knows how to do so.

To any Teabagger out there feeling his oats, you MIGHT beat my ass and you might NOT, but either way, you WILL pay for the privilidge of trying.

[MadMaddie]

7. Shirley Sherod is showing us the way

She is not backing down from Faux and Breitbastardbart, she is going toe to toe with them and calling a spade a spade.

Her truth is our truth and they have picked the wrong woman.

[Atticus]

8. She has been very impressive. She refused to "go quietly" and has turned this

back on the scumbags who thought a black woman in her sixties would be an "easy" victim.

[peacebird]

11. She has been amazing!

[Electric Monk]

10. Ironic choice of words considering the subject matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade#cite_note-0

[MadMaddie]

12. There are multiple definitions

It's pretty obvious I was referring to the following

<snip>
To "call a spade a spade" is to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity or embarrassing nature. Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1913) defines it as

“ To be outspoken, blunt, even to the point of rudeness; to call things by their proper names without any "beating about the bush".
<snip>

[madmax]

9. k&r

[mitchtv]

13. thanks for that

I'm from NYC. I don't get intimidated easily. I stand my ground and speak my mind

[struggle4progress]

14. Although I am probably not an absolute pacifist, I would remark that

nonviolence is an extremely good technique in many circumstances

I would also remark that, although there might be some truth to the saying Power comes from the barrel of a gun, the actual dynamics of power is society are usually not that crude: political power is constructed from thousands of small interactions, some so minor at the individual level that we do not notice them

Clausewitz famously said, that war is politics conducted by other means -- but, as is often the case, the saying can be fruitfully inverted, and we might learn something useful by saying instead, Politics is war conducted by other means

The bottom line is this: Our results will be continuous with our methods, and an intelligent analysis can be much more effective than a gun or a 2x4 in many situations -- especially if the analysis has been well-polished in practice so that it really reflects circumstances and if it is easily said and easily heard and easily understood. Against a significant and prepared opposition, even tyrants with great armies will experience some difficulty

[Atticus]

15. That was well said---eloquent even---and I respect it. However, I seem

to be encountering more and more situations which are not among the "many" in which "an intelligent analysis can be much more effective.

Well-reasoned analysis, no matter how "well polished", is spectacularly ineffective when offered in response to a beery drawl promising to "Fuck you up real bad, you punk-ass liberal faggot!"

[struggle4progress]

16. Well, I can't tell you what to do, but I'll share some of my guidelines:

(1) I only converse with people when there's a prospect for making progress. If there's no prospect for progress, I'm politely changing the topic and bowing out.
(2) People generally aren't persuaded by anybody who argues with them, so I don't argue with people, unless there's an audience that I might persuade
(3) I try not to engage with people itching for a fight. If somebody's calling me something like "punk-ass liberal faggot" -- and I heard stuff like that a lot in my hippie days -- then the first defense is not to react. Another defense is an off-the-wall reaction they don't expect ("I think it's gonna rain"). People itching for a fight generally have some sort of predictable engagement script: the trick is not to play into the script at all. They're looking for a reaction as the cue for the next move in their script. I'm not aware that they're talking to me; I'm not aware that they're insulting me; I'm involved in something else, and they're not registering with me
(4) Anger and fear and excitement are all contagious: staying cool cool cool works wonders
(5) Potentially bad situations I meander purposefully away from

Of course, the analyses I suggested in my previous post were not meant as advice for barfights: they are meant as part of a coherent political organizing strategy for winning against the noisy rightwing thugs who want to "take back the country" so we can all be happy racist xenophobic gaybashers like we were in the golden age of America

[voteearlyvoteoften]

17. Alan Grayson got it right

"I punch back" Kick ass!

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. My first instinct is pacifism.

However, my father's family were Molly McGuires, and they were more effective.

[arbusto_baboso]

19. Sometimes the peace-loving man has to fight for what he wants.

And when those of us who are slow to anger and violence are finally roused to it, the thugs and bullies of this world wind up shaking in terror!

[truedelphi]

20. Even as a ten year old, I used to wonder why the heck Anne Frank's family

Didn't have a gun.

And once Bush got in, I realized there is only one real way that can guarantee that I am not taken out of my house "quietly" in the middle of the night.

[readmoreoften]

21. If they do gain power and consolidate their thugs and send them into the streets.

Then we will absolutely have people on our side willing to meet them there and win. This already happens on a smaller scale: radicals already do get out in the streets to fight the Klan and the Minutemen.

[eleny]

22. As Mike Malloy asserts, Beck would like to start a war...

.... because he's a killer at heart. He just doesn't want to be in the battle. He just wants to start one. Chaos serves people like Beck and Rush et al.

[tabasco]

23. I'm an Airborne Ranger and I'll kick the fuckers' asses.

Reich wingers are generally a bunch of fat fucks who couldn't make it through basic training or crybaby draft dodgers like Limpbaugh.

[WillyT]

24. Yep...

I haven't evolved to Pacifist quite yet...

:evilfrown:

K & R !!!

:hi:

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Unfortunately, the only way to stop a bully from bullying you is to leave him

with a bloody nose. On the other hand, you can also try to avoid them at all cost. It's the Wax off part of the Wax on, Wax off philosophy.

[mikeSchmuckabee]

26. I'm in.

It's about time someone said it.