Barack's Sister Souljah Moment? (Obama bombs in Detroit speech)

[Herman Munster]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18620352/site/newsweek/

This week, Sen. Barack Obama attempted to fuel his presidential run with a scalding speech to the Detroit Economic Club, castigating Motown's big wheels for driving our dependence on foreign oil. "For years, while foreign competitors were investing in more fuel-efficient technology for their vehicles, American automakers were spending their time investing in bigger, faster cars," Obama told an audience stunned into silence after greeting him with a standing ovation."Whenever an attempt was made to raise our fuel efficiency standards, the auto companies would lobby furiously against it, spending millions to prevent the very reform that could've saved their industry. Even as they've shed thousands of jobs and billions in profits over the last few years, they've continued to reward failure with lucrative bonuses for CEOs."

What played as an act of courage in the rest of the country, is being seen as political suicide here in Detroit. "People were looking for so much more from Barack Obama," Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick told me. "He left a lot to be desired with that message." Kilpatrick, who introduced Obama to that thunderous ovation, met with him privately afterward and told him he missed an opportunity to woo Michigan voters by addressing their concerns about soaring health-care costs and fair trade. "As president, he needs to say what he would do to stand up for these other issues," says Kilpatrick, "instead of just slamming these companies for their fuel efficiency." And while it once might have seemed a slam dunk that one the nation's leading African-American mayors would endorse Obama, Kilpatrick makes it clear that he's not nearly ready to do that. "I'm not going to disengage from him simply because of one speech," Kilpatrick said. "But he needs to work on that message."

Kilpatrick is kind, though, compared to what others in Detroit are saying. "Sen. Obama embarrassed himself in Detroit with his lack of understanding of the problems facing the automobile industry, and what it will really take to fix them," the conservative-leaning Detroit News said in an editorial beside a political cartoon mocking Obama for criticizing a Detroit SUV that turns out to be a Toyota Land Cruiser. During his speech, the auto execs in the crowd—and there were many—began muttering that he didn't know what he was talking about. (One factual gaffe getting a lot of traction is Obama's assertion that Japanese cars average 45mpg, when the actual mileage is closer 30mpg). "It was definitely uncomfortable," says Eric Foster, a Detroit political consultant who sat near tables full of auto execs. "The mood lightened when he took on the oil industry."

[Kagemusha]

1. I guess Obama's finished then. Nice knowing you, Obama.

Fat lady has sung.

[JDPriestly]

2. Obama has not done his homework.

He is not ready to run for president. Edwards is ahead of him on this.

[bluestateguy]

3. I'm telling you this guy is not ready for prime time yet

And we can't afford to have a candidate on the general election campaign trial making rookie mistakes. The stakes are too high for that. Has this guy every had a real contest in any of his campaigns? And I'm not talking about races for the Illinois Senate. That does not count. It's minor league and is scant preparation for a presidential run against Karl Rove's stormtroopers. Otherwise, he beat the psychotic Alan Keyes in 2004. Wow, I'm in awe.

In about 10-15 years this guy could be an attractive candidate, but he's green.

[edwardsfeingold08]

29. What rookie mistake?

This article seems like a one sided hit piece. All of our candidates are going to endure these types of articles. It has nothing to do with experience. It has to do with the D next to his name.

[Colobo]

34. Maybe you don't like that Obama is doing so well in terms of polls and funds

Well, that's life. Deal with it. :)

[carpe diem]

4. a little FYI if anyone's interested in facts...

From Media Matters:


Chicago Tribune columnist fueled right-wing bloggers on false accusation against Obama
Summary: Columnist Jim Mateja wrote that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "has more homework to do" and "should a fact-checker" because Obama stated that "Japanese cars now getting an average of 45 miles to the gallon." In fact, a report from the Pew Center on Global Climate Change stated that the 2002 average fleet fuel economy value in Japan was 46.3 miles per gallon.

In his May 10 Chicago Tribune column, Jim Mateja wrote that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "has more homework to do" and "should a fact-checker" because Obama stated that "Japanese cars now getting an average of 45 miles to the gallon." Mateja asserted that Japan does not "mandate fuel-economy standards" and quoted a Toyota representative in the United States saying, "No carmaker gets 45 m.p.g." However, as Hotline associate editor Marc Ambinder wrote in a May 11 weblog post, "Obama was right." Ambinder cited the Pew Center on Global Climate Change's December 2004 "Comparison of Passenger Vehicle Fuel Economy and GHG Emission Standards Around the World," which stated that "he European Union (EU) and Japan have the most stringent standards" on fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions. The report also stated that, according to the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association, the 2002 average fleet fuel economy value in Japan was 46.3 miles per gallon. More recently, on March 21, Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) asked former Vice President Al Gore at a House hearing if he supported an "increase like they have in Japan, that's over 45 miles per gallon?" Mateja's falsehood about Obama's claim was picked up, uncorrected, in the conservative blogosphere:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705110009?f=h_latest




and btw, Clinton WON after his Sister Souljah performance, remember?

[Herman Munster]

5. that's besides the point

You don't go into someone's city and trash their major employer like that. It's rude and obnoxious.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Right. He should kiss the asses of THE major source of pollution, and be like all the rest.

It's refreshing to think that there might actually be one politician who isn't a whore to industry.

:headbang: :applause:

[carpe diem]

11. says who, and why the hell not if they deserve it...nt

[Herman Munster]

13. there's something called being respectful

If someone invites you into their house, and then you proceed to trash the drapes and carpet and kitchen countertops to them, I'd say you were an asshole!

[MadBadger]

14. So lets say Nancy Pelosi goes to the WH.

Is she supposed to say nothing and pretend everything is wonderful?

[Herman Munster]

16. not a fair comparison

Detroit (the city) is 80% black and has been in economic decline for 50 years. African Americans were excited about him coming and he proceeds to diss their one big major industry that allows many African Americans to have middle class lives.

Edwards or Clinton would never have done a bone-headed thing like this. Or any of the other democrats.

[Telly Savalas]

23. The reason Detroit's been in economic decline is because of poor decisions

by a bunch of rich white guys. Obama presented a plan which offers billions of dollars to the industry as part of program to get it back on track.

The right-wing talking points you posted omitted this fact.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. What middle class life? Ever seen "Roger and Me"???

Michael Moore's first movie about mass layoffs from the Buick Plant in Flint, Michigan?? Thirty thousand jobs lost, and the city a ghost town?

[carpe diem]

19. also, another perspective from the SAME link in original post...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18620352/site/newsweek/page/2/

...Among the chattering classes in America's car capital, Obama's speech quickly became known as his "Sister Souljah moment." Just as Bill Clinton once tried to show he wasn't beholden to the black vote by criticizing the controversial rapper back in 1992, Obama was now showing he wasn't the typical Midwestern Democrat, kowtowing to Big Labor and Big Factory Bosses. "This was a cheap political stunt," snapped one Detroit auto exec. "He wanted to generate headlines that 'Obama goes in and talks tough to Detroit'."

That's exactly what he did, too. And that plays well in the rest of the country. Detroit's reflexive defensiveness on boosting gas mileage goes over like sand in the gears in a country struggling with $3 a gallon gas (and worrying it will go to $4). The fact is Japanese automakers do lead in hybrids and fuel-efficient crossover models, while Detroit remains too dependent on big SUVs and trucks. Sure, American automakers are now working on new mileage misers, but they are playing catch-up. That's why the Detroit Three combined lost more than $16 billion last year, while Toyota earned a record $14 billion and surpassed GM as the world's largest automaker. "I would love it if Detroit would stop being defensive," says auto analyst Peter DeLorenzo, whose inbox filled with hate mail after he wrote a blog supporting Obama's call to action on fuel economy. "There's tremendous negativity toward Detroit among consumers and a lot of it is self-inflicted."

[edwardsfeingold08]

35. It's not close to the same thing.

If my boss drives my company into the ground and someone comes to my house and has negative words about my boss's incompetence, that is not disrespectful to me. That means the person is concerned about me and not pandering to my boss. That is a good quality in my opinion.

What I read of this speech makes me like Obama more.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. oh nonsense

he was absolutely right. So you'd object someone going to Dover, Delaware and speaking out against banks, or Hartford, Connecticut and speaking out against Insurance Companies?

You like to post smears and that's the extent of your arguments.

[Buzz Clik]

6. Great post. Interesting that we have to combat swiftboating by DUers.

[enough]

18. Agreed, I would like to k&r that post.

[tabasco]

22. Yes that is interesting. You just need to read the subject line and

you pretty much know from whom it originates.

Obama told the truth.

Anyone who condemns telling the truth in politics as "rude" is an idiot.

[edwardsfeingold08]

38. Agreed. It's sickening.

DUers seem to love to parrot right wing hit pieces as much as the neanderthals on free republic.

This article is obviously a slanted hit piece.

[sanskritwarrior]

41. Awesome

it's now swiftboating to point out that insulting the number one employer in a state we have to win is not a good idea......

God deliver us from the zealots of the left and the right..........

:eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

49. I'm not a big fan of those who repeat bullshit without a filter, left or right.

[Igel]

48. I'm not sure of his definition of 'car'.

My 4-door Chevy Cavalier weighs in at around 3900 lbs. It gets about the mpg that the Japanese 2010 standards dictate. This is somewhat of a problem.

Going from the basis of Obama's statement (http://www.pewclimate.org/docUploads/Fuel%20Economy%20and%20GHG%20Standards%5F010605%5F110719%2Epdf, p. 12-13), a vast number of Japanese cars weigh significantly less than that.

"Assuming no change in the vehicle mix, these targets imply a 23 percent improvement in 2010 in gasoline passenger vehicle fuel economy and a 14 percent improvement in diesel fuel economy compared with the 1995 fleet average of 14.6 km/L. According to the
Japanese government, this improvement will result in an average fleet fuel economy of Japanese vehicles of 35.5 mpg21 by 2010. The regulations include penalties if the targets are not met, but these penalties are very small. Furthermore, the majority of vehicles sold in Japan in 2002 were already in compliance with the 2010 standards."

(Footnote 21 points out a possible discrepancy between the accompanying chart and the number cited; the 35.5 mph figure is not what US tests would yield.)

It's likely that the US could easily match the Japanese figures: The savings would come not by using more of the energy in the gasoline, but by simply reducing the size of the car. I already feel like I'm risky my family taking my Cavalier out in traffic with big rigs. But probably half of the Japanese vehicles are lighter than my car, and some are more than a ton lighter.

[Bucky]

8. If Michigan wanted to matter in this election, they would have moved their primary up to January....

...you know, like everyone else.

[alarimer]

9. He is absolutely right

And it is long past time someone called these automakers on their stupidity and avarice. It is at least partially the autmakers' fault we are in the fix we are in. They were a major obstacle in developing decent mass transit in many cities.

Good for him. Now, I hope he has a plan for forcing automakers into improving the fuel efficiency of their vehicles. And also for increasing funding for mass transportation everywhere.

[illinoisprogressive]

10. actually he didn't. That was one reporters take. The others said he was well received.

[illinoisprogressive]

12. also, look who posted this. Munster is a clinton supporter.

[Sherman A1]

I seem to recall

some guy named Gore, saying something about the era of the internal combustion engine being over, but perhaps I digress.... The facts might have been off a tad bit on the mileage, but Obama and Gore are both right on the issue.

[WinkyDink]

15. It's not so much this; it's that the gaffes/blunders are adding up.

Didn't he just say "10,000 died" in Kansas?

[MadBadger]

17. So I shouldnt vote for him because of that?

[carpe diem]

21. this was not a gaffe or a blunder...

he was right

[Telly Savalas]

26. I'm pretty sure he said 20 million died.

I won't provide a link to back my assertion though.

[MadBadger]

27. No, he said 10,000.

[nolabels]

60. The measurement of how people die seems ignored.......

except by insurance actuaries. A slow death by opportunistic bacteria in some dreary hospital or being swept away by a tornado or slain on the streets of Baghdad doesn't make anyone more dead.

So the speech writer shorthanded the ten-thousand left homeless with the number dead and Obama read it and made a gaffe. The difference is that a guy like * could say ten-thousand died and it would be true :shrug:

[Blackhatjack]

20. One bad speech will not kill Obama's Campaign, and more is to be expected...

We should be slow to criticize Obama as he 'learns the ropes' and makes a misstep or two.

No political candidate comes out of the box without making a few mistakes.

The key will be if he learns from them, and makes sure he does not repeat them.

It will only help Republicans in the General Election if we begin attacking other Democratic candidates.

[papau]

25. I agree - Obama gets more impressive as a speaker every day - his positions don't

excite me - since he has only the energy proposal and that one includes coal gasification that is not one of my plus marks - but he is by far our best speaker and may well win the nomination based on his ability to inspire others.

And the less experienced person has beaten the more experience for the last 50 years.

The idea that calling for higher CAFE in Detroit is a screw-up is nonsense, IMO.

The policy called for is too weak is my opinion - but I will wait to all his policy cards are on the table - or it becomes obvious that his current "all options are on the table" is a con job as to policy position and that there will be no pre-election specific details on future policy coming from him.

[Blackhatjack]

59. I think you make some excellent points .....

and I think there is absolutely no way any Democratic Candidate will win the Nomination without giving specifics to back up their policies and programs they intend to implement if elected.

I do disagree with you on point. I think John Edwards is the best speaker on the stump that Democrats have to offer. And I believe he is the most intelligent, and a quicker study than the other candidates. But that is just my opinion.

I for one hope they all do well, and that we field a Nominee that that leads a Democratic Landslide all the way down the ticket.

[Canuckistanian]

24. Am I missing something? What did he say wrong?

Look, we all know that Detroit makes big gas guzzlers. But who says they have to? Is it a law in Detroit or something?

Obama was criticizing the management of the big car makers, not the workers themselves.

How does making more fuel-efficient vehicles hurt Detroit?

If they get on the ball, they just might be number one again.

[Colobo]

28. You wish, Munster... you wish...

[Windy]

30. I live in the Detroit area...and Obama is right

The Detroit auto industries better start making changes. Toyota moved up for two reasons.. Quality and Fuel economy! Also, detroits designs over the last decade or so have stayed in a slump. No innovative thinking. the same boxy suvs. And why all the Suvs? GM is discontinuing the Rendevous, which is a small size suv and replacing it with the Enclave, which while it is a beautiful car, is a gas hog! Another large SUV. Ford's new vehicles? Boxes. No style.

And also, a recent consumer reports article made clear that if you want to buy a car in america, don't buy from the big 3!! They build their cars overseas! Get a toyota, they're built the US as well as a lot of honda products!

I'm not saying that trade equity isn't important, it is, but if you build a quality product, you will get buyers. Additionally, the big three have been hurt by sky rocketing health care costs for retiree's. They receive full health care benefits from the day of retirement until they die. I believe that Obama has offered a plan for health care reform that will assist all corporations in the US. Now lets see if the American car companies will move their manufacturing back to Michigan if we have some sort of universal health care instituted. My bet? Nope. They would still have to pay the workers here a living wage and I doubt seriously if they will forego paying chinese and mexican workers 3 dollars per hour to pay american workers enough to live on!!

Nothing Obama said was incorrect!! Sometimes medicine is difficult to swallow. I wouldn't be very thrilled with Obama if he bent over for the auto companies. I prefer a bit of honesty, not trying to please everyone whether its the right thing to do or not!!! Some of our dem candidates to just that. That's precisely why we are in Iraq right now!!!

WE DESERVE BETTER!!! GOOD FOR OBAMA!!

[hatrack]

31. Obama is right on target - Detroit relied on Testosterone Shitwagons for decades . . .

. . . and now they're not selling, and the Big Three don't have anything but shit-eating grins on the shelf to deal with the problem.

Along those lines, two items in the news yesterday caught my eye. One was GM ending production of its two hybrid pickup trucks, and the other was Bob Lutz bragging - bragging - about the new rear-wheel drive models GM's going to start producing. THAT'S GM's answer to $3.50 gasoline? Rear-wheel drive?

What fucking year is it, 1973?

[FrenchieCat]

32. Ooooh! Thanks Mr. Keith Naughton for you and Newsweek

making sure to print "what I should Know" in order for me to make an "informed" decision.

Funny thing is that the Editorial is a hit piece and the small fact is that Barack Obama is correct in reference to what he said.

How does this happen?

[nam78_two]

33. I completely agree with Sen. Obama on this one

As for Kwame Kilpatrick-the only reason I have ever found for voting for him in the past is that he is a Democrat.

[Kelly Rupert]

36. Obama was totally, utterly correct.

Sorry Detroit didn't want to hear it.

[OHdem10]

37. Thank God, Someone has the guts to speak "truth to power"

Perhaps if some of our other Senators, Congressment, Leaders
had given Detroit a jolt a few years back--we just might
not be in the shape we are in now in this country.

[Colobo]

39. I guess some people over here like panderers better

Too bad Obama is a stand up guy.

[Raskolnik]

40. Somebody help me out: What the fuck does Sister Souljah have to do with this?

Did she and Professor Griff make a speech to Detroit automakers that I don't remember?

[JVS]

56. nothing. and it sounds like a poor use of the tern

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment

[dave_p]

42. What's he meant to do, praise gas-guzzling?

He urged innovation & competition on fuel efficiency as a way forward. No, I guess "the auto execs in the crowd" didn't want to hear that. Screw 'em. I think their workers would rather have a viable mass product.

[madfloridian]

43. It's the top story at Media Matters.

It is kind of thing I have been griping about this week. Where are the left bloggers when a Democrat needs defense??

They have yet to say that Brownback vindicated Dean and Sebelius. I have been griping about that.

They should be covering Obama's back on this. Are they?

There's a big story about Rahm at Kos, but I offhand did not see a defense of Obama.

That is why the right beats the heck out of us.

[Connie_Corleone]

44. Here is the Media Matters link that debunks this article.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705110009?f=h_top

It would be nice if so-called Democrats do their homework before posting articles that bash our Democratic candidates.

[Colobo]

45. Obama is at the middle of

1) A inevitable candidate who just realized she is not inevitable

and

2) A candidate who is way behind and is not gaining any grounds.

Add to that the attacks from Republicans who fear him... it's a tough spot to be at...

[Quixote1818]

50. Thanks for that. The Mods should lock this thread since this article

has been debunked as Right Wing propaganda by Media Matters.

[earthlover]

46. Have democrats lost their soul?

It used to be that Democrats would support people like Al Gore when he talked about global warming. We even thought good gas mileage was a good thing. Something Detroit should strive for. But now we are in a primary race and all bets are off.

Oh well, so much for priciple....

Now a Democratic candidate can say this same thing....to a Michigan audience.....and it shows how inexperienced he is, what a mistake this was, maybe he isn't ready for the big show....? WTF?

HUH?

So what is he supposed to do? What is he supposed to say?

If what Obama had said was not true, it would have been a mistake. Would Clinton or Edwards say such a thing? Doncha think it is insulting to Clinton and Edwards to suggest that they would NOT?

I am glad Obama had the guts to say the truth.

I suppose this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama never says anything controversial, he is too packaged, too middle of the road. SARC

I think it is high time Democrats TRY to remember what we as Democrats stand for. We DO stand for better gas mileage in cars, better environmental policies by Detroit, fighting global warming, etc....DON'T WE? So why would we flip flop from this goal? What Obama said was right. I guess only Obama supporters will stand with him on this...the rest will side with those who think making gas guzzeling behemoths is good for Detroit and good for the USA? Or attack Obama for supporting Democratic goals? OMG.....

[Quixote1818]

47. Sounded like a great speech! Did I miss something? nt

[TwilightGardener]

51. Anybody who stands up and tells people what they DON'T want

to hear, to their faces, even though it's the truth (Detroit hasn't been making fuel-efficient cars? Is this even controversial?) is going to get a smack-down, especially if that group is powerful. He made a brave and responsible speech. I'm proud of him.

[rucky]

53. All the had to do was talk about offshoring. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. Bwahahahaha! OUCH! 'TRUTH TO POWER' HURTS, EH? Suck it up people! What he said is TRUE!

DEAL with it! Or better yet....Bring back the electric car! Sounds to me like Obama has seen the movie..."Who Killed the Electric Car?" and told it like it is. The U.S. auto industry had their chance with the electric car and chose to be on the side of BIG OIL and POLLUTION. They dug their own graves. Obama just let them know we know what went down. AND don't get me started on the CEO salaries!:grr:

[Gold Metal Flake]

55. Well, Herman, you've been massively owned in your own thread.

I am fucking laughing.

[Colobo]

57. LOL!