Picking up the medical bill for my older brother...

[GSLevel9]

So my older brother is 50-ish and self employed and has been hurt by the economy. He has no medical insurance and is a bit overweight and bp pushing like 160/110... he knows he should be at the doctor's office like yesterday but has been putting it off for a couple years. I worry about him. So after some brotherly brow-beating he's going to the doctor's office and I'm picking up the bill in "trade" for him helping me this weekend change the brakes on my car.

It's just sad that there's still no easy way for someone to walk into a clinic and walk out with bp meds for $30...

[handmade34]

1. everyone needs a sibling like you

thanks... no excuse in this country for not having universal care.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. +1000

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. X2

[GSLevel9]

6. blush...

thanks.

But you know... I'd SETTLE for government run local clinics offering free service for anyone off the street with non-emergency related medical issues. How many women DON'T get annual OB/GYN exams and end up with issues down there? How many MEN don't get PROSTATE exams and end up with problems down THERE? I have Russian relatives and let me tell you how it works. Each region of the city has a clinic or two or three... you show ID that you live in the district and they treat you for a small fee. Contrary to popular belief, it's NOT free anymore. For example... an MRI will cost about $25... maybe 800 rubles. And SHOCKINGLY... when you go see a Russian doctor, he/she sits down and talks to you for maybe 20-30 minutes asking how's mom and pops, how you're feeling, etc... there's no BONUS for seeing 100 patients a day. They come to your house, too...

Health Care doesn't have to be FREE, but FAIR. So an MRI machine costs $100,000 and over it's life it takes 100,000 images so that's $1 per image and the operator makes $50/hr and it takes 15 minutes operate... so shouldn't an MRI cost about $14?

[MedicalAdmin]

24. Good points. One correction.

Your math is good but you need to double the cost of $14 to account for overhead expenses like rent, utilities, phones, booking, support staff, etc. So the MRI should cost about $28 per image (or slightly over a hundred for a series of 4 like they do with back injuries). And of course one should also factor in maintenance and capital depreciation for figuring out cost of replacement/upgrade. Let's round it up to about $35 per image. That's still pretty inexpensive.

Of course the highly efficient US (non) system charges about $500 - $1500 for that service. Lots of profit there.

[MadMaddie]

49. Perhaps they should use the rule of "Immenent Domain"

to acquire property for clinics. The clinics would then be rented out at low fees and managed utility prices.

How many empty WalMart Warehouses are across the country especially in smaller communities? These buildings would be perfect for public use.

[handmade34]

32. TNSTAAFL

free is a misconception for those who don't want to understand...

Bernie Sanders is a strong proponent of local health clinics and Vermont's small community health centers were wonderful as I was raising my kids in Vermont.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=40052117-86ad-40fd-ac1c-f55a72929a44

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Mimosa]

2. Some of us thought HCR was supposed to fix this.

*SAD*

[RKP5637]

4. Yeah, a lot of people are going to fall through the cracks I fear... n/t

[RKP5637]

3. He's so very very lucky to have you! n/t

[asdjrocky]

7. I can't even think about going to the doctor.

Good on you for helping your brother.

[GSLevel9]

8. the least I can do...

but I'll still never forgive him for putting NAIR in my shampoo bottle that one year...

:D

[asdjrocky]

11. Lol, live and learn.

Welcome to DU, by the way :hi:!

[madmax]

21. LOL

Welcome to DU :hi: You're a good man Charlie Brown :hug:

[XOKCowboy]

9. Me neither....

and I've got a knee that needs help. If I can't walk I can't work. Not sure what to do.

[MedicalAdmin]

26. Take a "vacation" to Canada and have a "fall"

They will treat you.

Of course that is VERY illegal.

[XOKCowboy]

38. I was in Toronto last June.

I thought about what might have been if it'd happened in Canada. Still pisses me off that I've probably paid over a quarter million dollars in "health insurance" during my working years. Of course I was healthy then. All that money paid for a few visits for the flu and a broken collar bone. When I was laid off and had to go freelance all that went away. I couldn't afford COBRA (before the Obama subsidies) and things were fine for a few years. Then the knee popped and every thing changed.

I might have to pack up and move back to Oklahoma so my Indian tribe can treat me. Depending on the damage I might have to file for disability. I've already told my clients I can't accept any jobs in the near future. Luckily I have a family to go back to. We'll see how it goes.

Yep the US has the best medical care money can buy.

[asdjrocky]

28. I know it dosen't help, but you're not alone. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

25. I haven't seen a doctor in about 5 years.

And I manage a medical office. I just can't afford the insurance.

[jeve]

10. Its not that hard to see a doctor

I don't understand why it is so hard to see a doctor for blood pressure.
All you do is look in your local yellow papers. Find a local family practice or internal medicine physician. Call the office. Tell them " I don't have insurance, how much is a visit going to cost me?" If you have the money make an appt. If you don't tell them what you can afford and see if they will see you. Go in, see the doctor for the set price. Tell the doctor I need the cheapest meds for my problem. Get meds at Walmart, Target, or some other pharmacy that sells 3 month supply of generics for $10. Done. Simple. I don't see what is so hard about this. Jeve

[GSLevel9]

I know the answer.

A doctor will charge about $75-$90 for an office visit... and with the meds... what's that, $100?

That's a month's electric bill for him, or a week's food for his family. He's a proud man, he'll take care of wife and kid's before he spends $100 on his own health.

[Skittles]

13. LOLOL

are you fucking kidding? :rofl:

[GSLevel9]

14. are you rofl'ing because of the 3 week wait for an appt.

or at the other "tests" the doc will want to run that month because of the incentive program the local lab is running? You know... send us 100 CHEMPANEL A's in July and get 36 Holes at Fair Oaks Golf Course?

[Skittles]

18. you know it, GS

OMG these trolls are as delusional as their dittomasters :o

[MedicalAdmin]

29. I have never seen that happen.

Of course what you describe is ILLEGAL and against professional ethics. The way doctors do it is invest in the labs they refer to. That's legal.

[XOKCowboy]

15. Try offering a chicken! I hear doctors like them.

Now for the hard decision. Live, frozen or rotisserie grilled... I guess for surgery it better be free range.

[Skittles]

19. I've heard that doctors taste like chicken

I've never had one though

[GSLevel9]

22. hehehe...

:rofl:

[MedicalAdmin]

30. Chicken - no.

Doctors, like all humans, taste like pork. With enough BBQ sauce and enough slow cooking, even Cheney could be choked down.

[XOKCowboy]

36. I'd be afraid of biting into an electrode...

Like a quail (or lawyer) you didn't get all the buckshot out of. Really though until you kill his nukular heart he's still toxic. :evilgrin:

[Webster Green]

23. Thanks for only posting twice in 15 months!

That was good of you! :hi:

[handmade34]

33. what planet are you from? n/t

[firedupdem]

40. Huh? You can't even make an appointment without insurance!

You make it sounds so easy. You couldn't be serious!

[McCamy Taylor]

42. You are kidding, right? I am a doctor. If a new patient walks in with high blood pressure

he is going to need a complete history and physical. He will need lab to check his kidneys and cholesterol and blood sugar and to screen for anemia. He will need an EKG and maybe even a chest x-ray. His bill will be in the hundreds of dollars before he is finished. Could be as high as $1000. And that does not include the recommended preventive screens for things like colon cancer.

Sure, he can get drugs for $4 at Wal-Mart. But he will have to come in several times to titrate the drugs. And once he is stabilized, he will need to follow up every 3 months. If his cholesterol is high (as it will likely be) he will need more medication and more blood work to follow up on that. And with two cardiac risk factors and his age, his doctor will probably recommend an exercise stress test.

This is not even "high end" medicine. This is bare minimum health care.

[w8liftinglady]

43. exactly-I'm an RN who ran a BIG MICU for years..we had lots of kids with

hypertensive crisis...i'm talking 20-25 years old who couldn't go to the doc,let alone afford the multiple meds.Our medical system sucks...wait until they're near death in the ER-then we'll fix 'em.

[a la izquierda]

50. umm, there's also a thing called a pre-existing condition...

if you don't have insurance. my husband couldn't see for a week out of one eye, but we were afraid to go to the doctor.
don't be so condescending.

[Tsiyu]

62. No, it's not hard to "see" a doctor

as long as you have your eyesight.

Getting a doctor to "see" you when you are uninsured and broke is very, very, very hard these days.




Poor means POOR.

Maybe you have never been poor.

Go out and meet some poor people.

Come back here when you've done that.



And while you're out there, ask yourself why the "greatest nation in the entire universe" can't provide its citizens with something as moral, as humane, as intelligent, and as conservatively cost-effective as basic modern health care.

We sure can kill people expensively, though. I guess that's what makes us so great....

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. I get mine for less than $30

Rite Aid here has a low income program for generics. And my local Doc charges $25 for an office visit.... still, my BP hovers around 200/140 and the meds I'm getting don't work!

[Juche]

46. How old are you?

BP of 200/140 is pretty dangerous. I thought my 150/90 was bad, and I'm only in my 30s.

[Cronus Protagonist]

51. 50

I know it's bad, and that's why I'm trying to do something about it. So far I've tried three drugs and I'm losing weight and exercising. Doing all I can. The drugs continue to do nothing.

[crim son]

16. Your brother is lucky. I know, because my sister pays for one of my meds.

I don't have eighty bucks a month for the only antidepressant that has worked for me, but my sister stepped in and saved my butt. She has also offered to pay for health insurance if I want, but I will not let her do that. Lucky us, eh?

[Mimosa]

17. There's that gap between medicaid and trying to be independent

This HCR bill screwed the people who aren't in abject poverty.

[crim son]

31. EXACTLY.

Same with the employment stuff. I got divorced in the middle of our economic meltdown. I had been a housewife for almost two decades, and never went without health insurance. My father was a physician... I didn't even understand that some people weren't so fortunate as I. Anyway, I am unable to find employment because there are twenty candidates ahead of me who actually have experience for the job being offered, and I cannot afford to insure myself, not even the catastrophic type insurance. It's crazy! I have two kids living with me who are still insured under their father's plan, thank the deity. I'm about to apply for medicare but I don't believe I will qualify because I have a chunk of money in a retirement fund (which I cannot touch). So I'm screwed. It's been a real eye-opener for me, and I have helped to inform the other people in my family and those with whom I hobnob... I was living in a fantasy world, and so are they. Honestly, most upper middle class people haven't got a clue how close they are to impoverishment. They should be made to understand.

I'll shut up now!

[Mimosa]

53. "middle class people haven't got a clue"

I've known families like that. Thet turn liberal when they see no way up or out. Yet the liberal system offers nothing. If you can't find a job you are a loser. The only other way to survive is to have a disability you never wanted.

[crim son]

59. That isn't what I'm saying.

I was/am liberal and so was/is my ex husband, and we acted on it in all the ways other staunch liberal DUers act upon it. I come from a well-to-do background and though my parents were conservative, they raised four children who are all liberals (interestingly, because of the values my parents instilled... I know, it sounds like a contradiction). My extended family is all very comfortably well off or better, and they are all liberal. My point is that despite this, they don't understand how quickly and easily one can go from comfort to penury. I believer there is an underlying belief that "only some people" are subject to that sort of terrible luck, and that they are exempt. It isn't a malicious belief, it is a naive one - a stupid one, if you will. I didn't "turn" liberal, but I was suddenly thrust into the struggle which only strengthened my liberal beliefs.

I so often hear DUers revile anybody who is fortunate enough to live well, and it's a shame and it's a mistake. Perhaps your post wasn't intended to sound derisive, but it did. It does us no real good to look down on people who learn too late, through suffering.

You are absolutely right. The liberal system offers nothing to most average people. I wonder if that doesn't go part way to explaining why people choose conservatism: conservatives at least believe that by their own energies they will rise in society. Hope springs eternal and all that. Sad, really.

[GSLevel9]

20. so your pills are $80.

Lets just say that's for 90 pills (3 a day)

About a dollar a pill. Let's say one of those fancy multi million dollar machines can make 100,000 pills per hour and 100,000 pills would only be a few pounds of raw medicine...

WHERE does that $$ go?

The PharmaCO will say COST of development, cost of mfg and marketing with a small profit.

But other countries mfg the same meds for a fraction of the cost.

I refuse to believe that when I go to the doctor for a sinus infection... the Doctor say's "there's this new anti-biotic that's very effective and I'd like you to try it" and I take the script to the Pharmacy and it's $300... is that a coincidence? Why didn't he give me 2008's "best" anti-biotic that's now $30?

The medical system in the US will NEVER be FAIR until the profit motive is GONE.

[crim son]

27. Agreed, although I don't believe "fairness" is something our system strives for

no matter what we are led to believe. Let me add that I only use the generic version of this medication. If I were using the real thing you can add at least another forty bucks to that price.

[handmade34]

34. fairness is a marketing gimmick

in the business world... money trumps the general welfare, oh, probably, 99% of the time

[crim son]

61. Indeed.

It's very disturbing when people refuse to acknowledge this.

[Warpy]

35. The cost is also the extensive QC that goes into

making sure that the right amount of stuff is in every pill because too much of a targeted poison can make you sicker or even kill you and too little won't do a thing for you. Then there's the cost of keeping something over 500 different items on the shelves at the pharmacy, all stuff with a limited time to be used. If it expires, the pharmacy has to eat the cost.

However, it's true that medications in the US are a total ripoff. The only strategies uninsured people have are to order from Canada or to present the doc with the lists of cheap drugs from Wally's, Target, and Costco and tell him that's the formulary. If nothing on it will treat you, you're SOL because you can't afford the expensive stuff.

Most docs have been willing to work with me. Pharmacies, not so much.

[Juche]

47. Use pharmacychecker.com

That is a good website to browse pharmacy prices. Some different pharmacies charge 4x or more for the same drug. It is absurd.

But most drugs on the market have generics or similar drugs in the same or different class exist that have generics. So a person should hopefully almost always be able to find something affordable.

[XOKCowboy]

37. Advertising for one thing. Outright bribery for another...

I've worked at those intimate Pharma dinner/presentations. Always at the finest restaurants or resorts. $200 steaks, $500 bottles of wine all to hear about the newest drug on the market. That's small stuff though when you consider the cruises, resort vacations and research "grants" Big Pharma spreads between doctors and hospital admins.

Also we're the only nation that allows those "ask your doctor about" commercials. I agree the medical system will never be fair as long as there is a profit motive.

[w8liftinglady]

56. I am on blood thinning shots until my pills take effect-200.00/week

-Lovenox 0.8mg/ml-1400/week without insurance...a literal crock of shit...totally based on profit.My doc was completely unaware it was so expensive...he was shocked,and said...that's why I have trouble getting folks to comply...

[XOKCowboy]

39. Welcome to DU...

I think you'll like it here. You seem to have a good bleeding liberal heart. :)

[McCamy Taylor]

41. Guess what? "Affordable" Health Care will not help your brother.

He will have to play $1250 for the privilege of paying a deductible of several thousand dollars before his new insurance will even kick in.

Your brother needs Medicare. He needs single payer.

[Juche]

48. Medicare for all wont fix everything

It'll help (medicare for all will cut $400 billion out of medical costs), but we are still going to have by far the most expensive system on earth.

Abuse of the profit motive (attempting to sell people the most expensive treatments possible even if they don't work better), doctors who do unnecessary tests to avoid being sued, lack of low cost care outlets, huge amounts of waste, etc. all eat up a big part of medical care. You need to fix that along with single payer to make our system sustainable.

In some countries like the UK teams of medical professionals investigate the cheapest, safest, most effective treatments and promote them. In the US private companies promote the most expensive treatments, even if they don't work better than cheaper alternatives.

[dflprincess]

57. Take the for profit middle man out of the mix and we'll save a bundle

United Health Group just reported net income of $1.12 billion for the 2nd quarter for doing nothing but standing between its policy holders and health care.

And, a single payer system may cut back on the number of lawsuits. If people don't have to worry about future medical bills they may accept that sometimes the doctor can do everything right and something still goes wrong.

[Cronus Protagonist]

52. I need it too - the Insurance Reform Law costs me and I'm not able to pay it

Let them jail me or fine me. They can't get any money out of me. I need to pay for my docs and meds in order to live, and there ain't nothing left over to pay the insurance companies or the government fines.

[Juche]

45. I got charged $130 for a consult to get BP meds

With a NP, not even an MD. It was pathetic. And many want you to keep coming back at least once a month, not realizing that visits which can cost $130 to refill a $4 prescription is idiotic.

Some walk in clinics are affordable though. But it depends.

[Mimosa]

54. HCR did nothing to help us. n/t

[Historic NY]

55. Get the generic BP meds or have him join a free BP lowering monitoring program

ask the Dr its usually free for 1 yr with checkups and meds.

[dflprincess]

58. I'm in the same boat

My younger brother (and only sibling) is dealing with lung cancer. He's used up all his PTO and FMLA so he's lost his job and I'm picking up the COBRA. Fortunately, his income is low enough that the hospital/clinic system he's using will pick up any deductibles.

I went out the "healthcare".gov to see if he'd qualify for one of the high risk plans and discovered the site should actually be called "overpricedhealthinsurance".gov. To begin with, he doesn't qualify because of he has COBRA and, even if he did, the monthly cost would be nearly 3x the COBRA payment.

[Name removed]

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