5 Arrested - Argument over crying baby sparks Mother's Day brawl in restaurant

[RamboLiberal]

I always get a kick out of these kind of stories. And while I can sympathize with the parents, I empathize with the woman who complained about the screaming baby. Mother Nature sure gave infants vocal cords that can drive a sane person crazy and too many parents just ignore it in public places.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070514/NEWS03/70514002

Thelma Oliver said she thought it was a good idea to take her mother, Linda Oliver, out for Mother’s Day yesterday with her father, Clarence.

The Oliver family, though, found themselves fending off punches and thrown tables and chairs at the Golden Corral restaurant, 5730 Opportunity Dr., yesterday afternoon, which could go down as The Great Toledo Mother’s Day Brawl.

About 10 Toledo Police units responded to the melee with an estimated 15 people involved inside the restaurant. Five people were arrested and six people were hurt, including four who were taken to hospitals for minor injuries.

“I couldn’t believe it,” Thelma Oliver said. “This is supposed to be Mother’s Day. It’s just a crying shame.”

The incident started shortly before 3:30 p.m. in the crowded, buffet-style restaurant near Alexis Road and Lewis Avenue. Sgt. Lee Kikolski said it appeared that two women in the restaurant had words over a child, which ignited the fight.

[eleny]

1. The irony being that Mom's Day was originally a day initiated for peace

[Ilsa]

12. peace and an opportunity for women to leave their homes and

do social work. At least, Anna Jarvis' mother, Anna Jarvis, had envisioned that as "Mothers Day", if I remember correctly.

[Philosoraptor]

63. Imagine the horror if it had been Arbor Day!

[misanthrope]

72. No, it wasn't. It was spawned by greeting card companies...

...Just joking. It wasn't actually created by retailers but it didn't take too long for them to usurp it.

NPR story on Mother's Day and the Jarvis clan

[eleny]

101. Yeah, things get fuzzy over the decades!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Holiday fun!

:woohoo:

[Philosoraptor]

64. It's a family tradition here.

If any young'n's EVER dares to go all screamy out here we just git that riot started quicker 'n' you can slap a infant.

[TahitiNut]

125. Well, it does take a village.

:silly:

[MADem]

178. Thanks for that laugh!!!!

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

183. DU: So many straight lines and ...

... so little bandwidth. :dunce:


:evilgrin:

[Horse with no Name]

3. There is something VERY ironic

about a Mother's Day brawl that started over a crying infant. You would think as a mother...

[blondeatlast]

4. Golden Corral has crayons and kid's menus. Not exactly the place for

for a quiet, elegant meal and actually, quite appropriate for a young mom with a baby for Mother's Day.

I can't muster much sympathy for the "victim" of the crying baby, sorry.

[RamboLiberal]

7. I think they also get a big Senior Citizen contingent too

Since Ohio has banned smoking in restaurants maybe they ought to convert to kids/no kids sections. :evilgrin:

[RamboLiberal]

10. Dupe

[jilln]

14. But people should be able to eat without hearing constant screaming

The article says the woman was asked repeatedly to stop the screaming. If she couldn't, the normal thing to do is to take the child outside until s/he calms down. And it was the child's mom who threw the first punch. So yeah, I have more sympathy for the victim.

[blondeatlast]

16. And we're off!

:rofl:

Sorry, kid's menus and crayons mean that isn't the place for a quiet, elegant meal, IMHO.

[qanda]

27. I'm sorry

As annoying as it is to hear kids screaming, I would have punched that woman too if she hollered at my baby like that. The considerate thing to do would have been for the mother to take the child outside or whatever, but perhaps the woman could have asked a manager to approach the woman instead of taking it upon herself to be that nasty to a baby.

[jilln]

30. True, they were both at fault

But punching her was way out of line. And I still think people should be able to eat in a restaurant, even a kid-friendly one, without hearing constant screaming. Say I brought a guide dog in there and he barked nonstop for 30 minutes. I bet everyone saying we should listen to the kid scream would have a problem with the dog barking.

[RamboLiberal]

46. I've never seen a service dog misbehave in public

Amazing how a dog is smarter than many parents - and I'm not talking about toddlers but those parents who let their kids over age 6+ misbehave in public situations.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

118. Jill's got a point though.

The rotten parents who let the kid scream would be pissed as hell if it was somebody else's kid.

[gollygee]

120. I was thinking the same thing

The people I know who would let their kids scream in a restaurant are the ones who would get most upset and rude if someone else's kid was screaming in a restaurant.

[Clark2008]

204. Sorry - I'd stand up for my baby against a heckler, too.

Yes, it would be polite to take the baby out, but NO ONE has the right to scream at an infant. The infant can't understand you anyway.

--> Mother of an 8-year-old (today, as a matter of fact, is his B-Day) and a soon-to-be born "screamer." :)

[jilln]

209. Where did anyone say you shouldn't stand up for a child?

But refusing to acknowledge disruptive behavior is not standing up for the child, it's standing up for your right to be obnoxious and annoy everyone around you.

And yeah, if someone screams at your kid you have the right to respond. That doesn't mean by punching though.

[woo me with science]

158. Would you seriously have punched her? nt

[qanda]

175. I'm not sure

My kids are older now (9 and 10). But strange things happen to mothers when it comes to protecting their young.

[woo me with science]

181. I appreciate your honesty,

and I agree that protection of one's child can make people contemplate doing outrageous things.

I just was a little shocked at that part of your comment, and it made me think of a little theory I have had in my head about public brawls and violence. I think it has to do with a change of rules in people's minds that has taken place over the last decade or two.

People now consider it justified to act aggressively, even in public, if they feel the other person deserves it. Behaviors that were once completely unacceptable in public are acted out by people who would never consider themselves to be rude people, because they feel righteous and offended about something.

It is a fact of life that people are going to behave like jerks. Letting a baby scream in a restaurant is jerkish. Screaming at a baby is also jerkish. But IMO neither warrants violence or even the threat of violence. It used to be that people would walk away rather than behave that way in public. Nowadays people feel justified in all sorts of behaviors if they believe they are punishing someone else for having behaved badly FIRST. Everyone feels righteous in their own tantrums, because they are just responding to someone else who behaved worse, first.

I think people need a re-education that some behaviors just are not acceptable in public NO MATTER WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DID, and that you need to WALK AWAY (or contact the manager, or contact police if it is that bad...) rather than engaging in vigilante punishment of rudeness.

Just my little pet peeve assessment of what is going on these days.

[qanda]

196. You are so right

And it's easy to say what I would have done. Perhaps I should have said what I would have felt like doing. There are many times that anger boils up inside of me, but I have yet to act out aggressively towards anyone. When it comes to my children, I do feel differently about how I defend them. I have never hit anyone for messing with my kids, but I'm not sure how I would have reacted if someone yelled at my children while they were still babies.

[woo me with science]

245. I think protecting my kids

is probably the one area where I would have doubts about my self-control, too.

Thanks.

[Madspirit]

76. It's a FAMILY restaurant

If the lady wanted to be some place without crying babies she shouldn't have gone to a FAMILY restaurant and there is NO excuse for her yelling at the infant. She should have yelled at the mom if she really thought yelling was appropriate behavior. ...and the mom should not have thrown a punch. These people sound rather uncivilized all the way around. Oh yeah and the woman should have gone to the restaurant manager and complained.
Lee

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. Heh.

I'll agree that the woman shouting at the baby was rude, inappropriate, immature, and uncivilized.

But I won't go so far as to say she didn't have a good excuse.

:D

[jilln]

182. Adults are family members too. (nt)

[Madspirit]

246. Wow...astute

Yes, yes they are. Adults are family members too. When a restaurant promotes itself as "Family" do you really think they mean "Adults Only"? I want you to look me straight in the eyes when you answer.

No one wants their meal interrupted by a crying baby but I would probably have felt sorry for the mom. If I was in a really nerve-ending mood, I would have left or asked the management to move me. There is no...NEVER...under no circumstances...EVER a reason to yell at a baby. Not your own and not someone else's.
Lee

[jilln]

275. Sarcastically calling me stupid does not make it less true.

My point was that at a "family" restaurant, there are people there without babies. People with babies do not have a monopoly on family events. It is pretty clear from the article how irritating the baby was. Everyone has a right to go to ANY restaurant and expect NOT to be sitting next to a constantly screaming child. Yes, occasional noise is to be expected, but not constant screaming. Search the posts carefully and I believe you will not see one instance of anyone defending yelling at a child. That does not, however, give people with children the right to let them behave this way, baby or not.

By the way, if YOU were more "astute" and understood English correctly, you would realize that "Adults are family members TOO" implies AS WELL AS babies, not INSTEAD of babies. Therefore, your entire sarcastic, rude first paragraph was completely unnecessary as well as not... astute.

[Madspirit]

309. ...and still

NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO YELL AT A BABY. Why didn't the moronic sensitive soul take it to the management. NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO YELL AT A BABY...not their own, not someone else's. It is abusive and crappy and took any sympathy I may have had for Ms. Sensitive and disolved it.
Lee

[jilln]

317. NO ONE IS ARGUING IT'S OK TO YELL AT A BABY!

Geez, this must be how talking points get started, between the "It's not OK to yell at a baby" and "quiet, elegant restaurants".

All I'm saying is that people have a right to eat in ANY restaurant without NONSTOP screaming and that it's not OK to hit someone over this, in addition to that it's not OK to yell at a baby!!! It's ALL bad behavior, no matter how many times you try to insist the screaming baby has more rights than anyone else in the place.

[Madspirit]

318. I never said she had more rights

Almost all my posts have been about how uncool it is to yell at a baby. This woman could have gone to the management.
Lee

[LostinVA]

288. Agreed -- it's Golden Corral, not Spago

[flyarm]

i was just in a store 2 days ago..and CHILD SCREAMED AND SCREAMED AND SCREAMED..

THE CHILD WAS THROWING A TEMPER TANTRUM.. and screaming at the top of her lungs..totally out of control..

i know i said under my breath numerous time..enough already..and i was just hearing this going on..screaming so out of control..it was beginning to make me angry..at the mom..or dad..not the child..

then i walked around the store enjoying my day... minding my own business and walked into the mom and child..well the child was on the floor , had kicked off stuff from a counter and was literally throwing a horrible fit..on the floor turning purple..and just screaming..nothing was wrong with the child it was just a nasty temper tantrum..

and the mother was shopping and just ingoring the child...

i just lifted my arms ..and said..well mom ..you just ruined my joy of shopping..and i walked and exited the store..i had listened to it for over 20 minutes..and i was exhausted listening to this nonsence.It was giving me a stomach ache and a headache..

so the store had their merchandise destroyed , they lost me and i bet a whole lot of other shoppers..

and the mother..well she was an ignorant idiot..since she didn't know enough to pick up her child ..and take her home..and do what ever she does to control her child..which seemed to be nothing!

sorry ..but i raised my kids..and i will not tolerate others ignorance..
.......... they are not a "joy to the world" when the parents are ignorant and think little johnny and jane are a blessing to the world screaming and misbahaving!!

parents..the word means responsibility over one's child!!..and not punishing others because you think you are a parent..having kids does not make one a parent..parenting does... and others should not have to pay the consequences that you are not !!

when mine screamed or misbehaved..to the car they went and home we went..i never believed others had to enjoy the misbehaviour my kid might have periodically!! or a temper tantrum..sometimes kids just belong home...

go ahead and flame me..but i am damn sick and tired of parents today that think everyone should have to endure their child's misbehaviour/ running around in restaurants,or stores ... screaming uncontrollably , picking stuff off others tables..( yes i have endured that, not happily) ..and the parents ignorance!

I am now of the group of adults that see's little kids at a table..and i tell the waiter leading me near ..no thanks ..give me another table please!! and not near little kids!!..or i leave..
sorry but until people control their kids and make them behave..that is how i feel about it!!..i will not sit to eat with a pit in my stomach,.or shop getting a headache listening to children out of control!

fly

[lse7581011]

146. Agree 100%!

Don't seat me in the kiddie section! If I'd wanted them I would have had them!

[fudge stripe cookays]

190. Thank you!

If parents refuse to control their children, I have no problem with telling them to be quiet myself.

If a parent gets pissed at me, I point out the obvious. I don't want to listen to your fucking kid. It's why I don't have them. Take them outside, or give them a freaking pacifier or something.

[Clark2008]

205. Well, you know something - you could always leave.

Instead of yelling at the kid or the parents. Take your money elsewhere.

[flyarm]

207. i have had to leave more times than i have fingers and toes because of ignorant parents!

i don't blame the children..i blame ignorant inconsiderate parents!

and why should i leave my nice day out, my nice dinner or lunch out for someone's parenting ignorance??????

i pay my way..why should it be destroyed by assholes who don't know enough to take a tired child home, or a child who is having a mischievous day, or a child who was never taught manners??????????

bullshit..now i get will not tolerate it any longer..i used to be overly nice ..and now not so!!
i have had it paying and having my meal..or my nice day destroyed by ignuts who have no business being parents because they don't give a rats ass how many people they are disturbing or making miserable by them ignoring their children.. who are out of control..!!

i will not leave anymore..now i get loud and not so nice!

[fudge stripe cookays]

213. Yeah?

Most people are far happier to see the inconsiderate parent and screaming brat leave than a fellow diner experiencing the same thing they are. I've had enough meals ruined by assholes, thanks. It's THEIR turn.

Nice try.

[EnviroBat]

295. YES!

:applause:

[ProudDad]

215. The woman with the noisy kid

is the offender in this situation and as such has the responsibility to do something useful about it.

My heart goes out to the woman who was trying to enjoy her meal and was physically attacked for her trouble.

There's NEVER an excuse for a physical attack like this.

Although, I would have talked to the manager and DEMANDED that this woman and her noise be removed from the restaurant.

If the manager didn't remove the source of the irritation I would have left WITHOUT PAYING...

[flyarm]

261. me too ..that is how i feel now ..no more will i leave with an upset stomach

because some assholes think it is cute for their kids to come to my table and take what they wish..or play under "my feet"..or scream and make my night out miserable..

while the parents tune it out and ignore it..

i have called a mgr over and loudly told them, in no uncertain terms, move me and move me now.. away from this annoyance!..hoping to at least embarrass the parents into responsibility..doesn't work..they just stay damn ignorant and selfish!

but on the other hand..i will commend a family that the children are well behaved and pleasant to be in a restaurant with..i make a point of telling the children what a delight they are and telling the children their parents should be very very proud of them.

but the number i have commended is very few and far between!!

and i live in a resort area..i have seen it all!!

i have gotten where i can hardly stand to go out during tourist season!!

my husband and i have discussed..what are these children going to be like as teens and young adults..will they be as ignorant as their parents..most likely..what a world we have ahead of us!!

seems rules are for everyone else now a days...at my pool there is a huge sign..huge..no children in diapers or not potty trained..are allowed in the pool..period..no exceptions.

now i am talking a huge sign on the wall next to the community pool..yesterday i saw 4 babies taken into the pool with diapers!!

and one 3 yr old still in diapers!!...i know he was three,because he told me he was 3,while splashing me..and he had one of those pull on diapers on!

i went out to the mgr and had them thrown out..

why are the rules for everyone but the person breaking the rules?? everyone of them that were thrown out had the nerve to argue..and get pissy...

please spare me!!

fly

[TahitiNut]

300. You and me both, PD.

Now ... tell me ... did your daughter act up in public??? Inquiring minds want to know. :evilgrin:


:rofl: :rofl:

[TommyO]

314. Why should somebody, other than the screaming kid and oblivious parent, leave?

[truedelphi]

197. I had a neighbor liek that. Her kid would emit these

High pitched sounds every single fifteen minutes all day long.

At the time I was working nights. I finally complained to the mother and asked her if she couldn't do anything about it. (We are talking about a seven year old by the way - not a colic-y infant.)
She explained that her child had a learning disability and that I would just have to develop the patience that she had! (Not developpmentally disabled - but a learning disability!)

Learning disability my foot. In my day if I had ever shrieked like that just once I would have been taken to the woodshed. In my son's era, he would have gotten a time-out.

I really pity school teachers living through these times.

[salin]

273. I was kicked in the back by a two year old (or there abouts) throughout

my nephews graduation from high school (in gymnasium seating). I kept scooting from one side to another to try to avoid kicks from the squirming kid (seated in a parent's lap). And finally turned around to just look at the family. At that point the parent finally reacted, took the kid outside until he settled down. At the end of the ceremony the other parent appologized to me. All was fine. No screaming needed and no punches thrown. Just a little patience and empathy (it was a two year old kid, I got that and the kicks weren't intentional - the kid was squirming) on my part, but when it was a wee too constant my turning around sent the message and the parents were responsive.

There is too little civility these days. So many situations could be handled much better.

[EnviroBat]

294. Agree 100%!

That crap pisses me off. Parents today act as if they are entitled to cause obnoxious situations in public. Well, aren't they precious. They decided to have kids, and with that comes a level of social responsibility to not subject the rest of us to their children's temper-tantrum bullshit. I've heard kids screaming as if someone were tearing their arms off. I know my mother never put up with that shit, and when I did act like that she would take my ass out! I know kids don't know how to express themselves, and every little thing is 100 X bigger to them than it is for grown-ups, (most of them any way), but that shit gives me an Ulcer when I'm out, trying to enjoy a quiet meal, (that ain't cheap). Or when I'm trying to see a movie, or shop. Shit, just have the courtesy to take that screaming bundle of joy OUT SIDE!

[ScreamingMeemie]

320. Want a quiet meal?

Eat at home.

[WinkyDink]

21. Nobody used the word "elegant".

[AnneD]

24. I am all for peaceful dining....

but I wouldn't look for it at Golden Coral at Mother's Day, or anywhere on Mother's day for that reason. Now if I was at Ruth's Chris Steak House and there was a bawling kid I would be pissed and talk to the Manager.

I was once a single Mom with a little kid. We went to kid friendly places when she 3-5 (like Chinese and Mexican). When she could show me her best manners-we went to better places. From 5 on, she had better manners than most adults. She also became interested in china, crystal, and silverware too. It would freak sales people out when I would walk into a china shop with a 6yo, but she knew to look with her eyes and not her fingers....and she loved to look at the patterns and the other spark-ly pretties.

As a parent you shouldn't be afraid to take them into grownup situations....but only after they have been prepared and you are comfortable that they can handle it. Of course you have give up a few things, like eating at a nice restaurant when you have babies...it's called being a responsible parent.

[Beaverhausen]

28. the mother threw the first punch

the "victim" of the crying baby is also the victim of the baby's mother.

[Clark2008]

202. Same here.

It's not like it was a fancy French restaurant where the staff expects couples and older patrons.

Geesch.

[The Gunslinger]

219. Exactly. It is a kid friendly place, I would expect crying babies there on Mother's Day

And those who get physically violent over a crying baby are truly the infantile ones. Crying babies may be annoying at times, but we were all babies once.

[Scout]

251. "we were all babies once"

so the fuck what? when i was a baby, IF my parents could even afford to take me out to a restaurant, if i had screamed they would have quieted me or taken me outside instead of disturbing everyone else in the place

there is a difference between crying and screaming

the same went for when we were older ... if we were taken to a restaurant, even a "family friendly" one, we were taught to behave and if we didn't we were punished

[The Gunslinger]

311. ok you were the one that didnt make noise

I'm sure you were also taught not to go screaming at babies who aren't your own. Common sense and life experience tell me that if I go to a Golden corral(which I do, I have kids) there might be loud children there. I agree the mother should have taken the kid outside, but that doesn't always happen. I can handle the babies at Golden Corrall, now the roach on my table the last time I went, thats a different story.

[badgerpup]

260. We've got a Golden Corral here...

...we refer to it affectionately as 'The Pig Trough.'
It's one of those all-you-can-eat places, and while the selection is pretty decent, it is NOT the place to go for a 'quiet and elegant' meal.

It's the place to go when you're hungry as hell, or you have a teenager with you and s/he is hungry as hell, or you can't make up your mind what you're in the mood for but what ever it is, you want LOTS because you're hungry as hell...you get my point.

[MADem]

5. Jesus Christ on a bicycle!!!!!!!!!

....The sergeant said witnesses told him Christine Lewandowski, 56, repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo to quiet her 1-year-old child, who was sitting in a high chair and screaming.

When the infant continued to scream, Ms. Lewandowski shouted at the baby to “shut up,” Sergeant Kikolski said.

That’s when Ms. Harris lunged at Ms. Lewandowski and began punching the woman, the sergeant said.
Other people joined in the fight, which lasted “maybe 10 minutes,” Sergeant Kikolski said.

“It was a big exchange,” Sergeant Kikolski. “It seemed like everyone wanted to get their licks in, or it could have possibly been they were trying to break up the fight.”

Chairs and tables were thrown as the fight participants quickly grew out of control and restaurant managers called police......


:rofl:

[Ilsa]

15. Yeah, shouting at 1 year old babies really works well, doesn't it?

I would have tried to help the woman with the crying baby, not make the mother more upset. If she had screamed at my baby, I probably would have told her to fuck off, and let her try to throw the first punch.

Anyway. I suspect ms. lewandowski had some issues when she walked into the restaurant if she's at screaming point over a crying baby.

[blondeatlast]

19. Especially a clearly family-themed restaurant.

I mean, high chairs, crayons, and kid menus are sure tip-offs to a lovely, quiet, elegant meal well-prepared. :eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. God Bless America.

We've all wanted to do it at some point in our lives.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6zSmT1lbUFA

[Philosoraptor]

65. I'd have shoved a pork rib in the kid's yap.

[ProudDad]

222. "repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo

to quiet her 1-year-old child who was sitting in a high chair and screaming."

SHE SHOULD TAKE THE FUCKING NOISE OUT OF THE RESTAURANT!!! To let the noise scream is to say a monumental "FUCK YOU" to everyone trying to eat there.

I have "issues" if some little crap machine is SCREAMING WHILE I'M TRYING TO EAT food I'm paying good money for. "Family restaurant" doesn't mean noisy, nasty environment to pay to have food in (unless it's chucky cheese! Now THAT'S a zoo!)

[LostinVA]

289. Shouting at an INFANT also seems a bit psycho to me

It wasn't a bratty five-year-old tearing around the restaurant, it was an infant.

[lumberjack_jeff]

104. Right on, Mom!

If you yell at someone's infant to shut up, you get what you deserve. A righteous ass-kickin'.

[TahitiNut]

131. Well, of course! It's far more AEROBIC than taking the screaming brat outside.

:eyes:

Jeezuz! Heaven forbid that mommy inconvenience HERSELF and take the kid outside until it screams itself out. Just let the entire restaurant suffer and then physically attack someone for their 10th, 12th, or 20th complaint about the kid's behavior.

Where the hell was the management? Just because kids are welcome doesn't mean all of their behavior has to be tolerated. I love kids and certainly have wide tolerance for them cutting up ... but their screaming interminably just isn't something one inflicts on others.

[lumberjack_jeff]

236. A) we don't know how much noise - not enough to attract mgt attention, apparently.

B) we do know that a nearby grownup screamed at the infant to shut up.
C) we do know that the parent reacted exactly as a normal parent would.

The fact that the management wasn't involved suggests that the screaming wasn't a significant problem - except for the, uh, victim.

[Scout]

253. you're saying that a parent is justified in physically attacking

someone who shouts "shut up" to their kid?

there's something wrong with you if you think that is ok

[lumberjack_jeff]

271. Yes.

There is something wrong with you if you would not intervene when someone verbally assaults your infant.

But since you think I'm unique - that there's something wrong with me - I suggest an experiment; try it on someone's baby sometime and report back.

Perhaps you'll be well situated to offer some insights on the poor state of emergency room care while you're making your report.

[Scout]

284. I suggest YOU assault someone who simply shouts at your child...

and see about how criminal assault charges work.

There is something wrong with you if you think physical assault is a proper response to anything verbal.

[lumberjack_jeff]

306. This wasn't a child, it was an infant.

An infant is not capable of responding to a verbal assault. It is up to his/her parents to do it.

One who fails to defend their baby is a shitty parent.

There is something wrong with you if you think physical assault is a proper response to anything verbal.

Few people really believe that. If they say it, what they really mean is that a verbal assault on one's baby, unlike verbal attacks based on one's race, gender or orientation, isn't worth getting so worked up about.

I disagree. I'm capable of taking slings and arrows. I am incapable of allowing those slings and arrows to be directed at my infant.

I'm not unusual. Report back, let us know how it goes. Parents have a different appraisal of the worth of babies than you appear to.

[TommyO]

315. It was the baby's responsibility to handle the screaming, not ignore it, period!

[Cha]

268. Yeah, don't they throw

kids and their parents off of airplanes for that kind of behavior?

I remember when our kids were young and screaming in restaurants..they would get their little butts carted off so they didn't disturb other people who were there to enjoy their food.

[Crabby Appleton]

6. nothin like a good mother's day brawl. nt

[Philosoraptor]

66. And the big father's day massacre is coming to a trough near you.

[momster]

262. Father's Day Massacres Take Place

at Sporting Venues. Coaches attacking dads, dads yelling at kids, everybody's hitting the Ump...take me out of the Ballgame.

[Art_from_Ark]

270. Now that was funny

Happy Father's Day!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. A symptom of the divide and paralyze strategy of the GOP

wherein our nation is being torn asunder? The stresses from this regime are exposing many cracks in our foundation.

[merh]

9. At least they weren't at the Olive Garden

and thank god no one was nursing the baby in public :eyes:

[blondeatlast]

13. No corn flakes on the chicken, either. nt

[stillcool]

11. yikes...

snap, crackle, and pop, or short-fuse to no-fuse.

[KansDem]

17. I wondered what ever happened to the "barroom brawls" I saw in westerns as a child...

Now I know...

[MADem]

23. Wouldn't you love to see video of that fracas? I'll bet there were some real roundhouse punches

thrown...we know that tables and chairs went a-sailing!!!

[Marrah_G]

18. I will never understand the nastiness of some people.

I've somehow managed to get to 36 without ever instigating a fight or punching anyone.... why is this so difficult for some humans?

[kestrel91316]

20. i was hanging out at out local Borders Books yesterday, just having a nice

Sunday afternoon browse, should have been NICE AND PEACEFUL, a good environment for reading..........this couple with two kids comes in and the toddler (on a leash) was pitching a fit the likes of which I haven't seen nearly twenty years (since the folks that got thrown off the airplane due to their unruly toddler at Christmas). We are talking MAJOR screaming and yelling and hitting and kicking and running around in the store. the mother thought the solution was to pick up this kid (which made her scream worse and fight harder) and WALK SLOWLY UP AND DOWN EVERY SINGLE AISLE IN THE STORE, forcing everyone else to have to listen to it up close and personal. She insisted on following me upstairs into the cookbook section and parading her around up there, too. I wanted to hit them both.

PARENTS: If your child is creating a major disturbance like this, go outside with them, or GO HOME. And get a babysitter next time.

I prefer the Victorian approach. Children did not go out in public until they could conduct themselves like civilized human beings.

[WinkyDink]

22. Ha! MY Borders plays LOUD music and the Cafe' employees therefore SHOUT their conversations.

I guess they think book-lovers value high-decibel environments.

[seabeyond]

44. since it has been nearly twenty years, i would assume MOST parents

are aware of this and this is certainly an unusual that a parent or child would behave this way. barnes and nobles was and still is my kids favorite place to hang out. behaving as well if not better than most adults. even at two.

[LisaL]

55. At least in the store you could get out.

I was on the plane and the baby with a couple next to me was crying on top of his/her lungs non-stop.
No escape.

[Lasher]

322. Being on a plane near a screaming baby is my worst nightmare.

Yesterday I had a root canal. It was more enjoyable that being stuck on a flight having to listen to a screaming baby. Parents can't take the baby and leave. You can't leave. You just suffer. I would gouge my eardrums out but these days they won't let me carry anything on the plane that could be used to accomplish this.

I have noticed that some parents modify their child's schedule a little in attempts to make the trip uneventful. A good tactic is to give the child their bottle just after the plane takes off. After feeding the little feller often sleeps for the rest of the flight.

[flvegan]

25. And if just ONE person there had a Concealed Carry License...

this would have all been over before it escalated.




Do I really need the sarcasm smilie?

[ManiacJoe]

98. Interesting set of assumptions you make.

What makes you believe that there were none there?

All of the CCW folks I know would have simply left or sat back and watched the show (then happily report it all to the cops).

[EnviroBat]

296. Exactly...

:thumbsup:

But I guess all of us around here with a CCW are "lunatics".

[JVS]

115. Justice would have been served

[proud2BlibKansan]

292. Deaths on Mother's Day

That's a lovely thought.

:sarcasm:

[valerief]

26. I remember when parents didn't bring children under six to a restaurant.

Those were the days!

[MADem]

191. I came from a large family, and when we went out to eat, it was "best behavior" or ELSE.

We policed each other, too. It would never occur to us to misbehave. We practiced that quaint concept called 'manners' even in the privacy of our own home! If a young one fussed, that's what pacifiers were for!

[valerief]

280. We were too poor for restaurants. I didn't go to one until I was a teenager. nt

[MADem]

283. We weren't rolling in dough either, but when you're in a travelling military family

you change locations every few years, so we got many opportunities to try out our home manners in a commercial environment! And misbehaving just wasn't an option.

[damntexdem]

29. Holy Toledo!

It just had to be said.

[Ian David]

31. Dear Bill O'Reilly... please help us win The War Against Mother's Day! n/t

[entanglement]

32. “It was a big exchange” “It seemed like everyone wanted to get their licks in”

"thrown tables and chairs..." :rofl:

[EnviroBat]

313. Everybody was Kung-Fu fightin'! n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

33. um, you don't yell "SHUT UP" at my child.

I don't know what I would have done but that would have upset me for sure.

[nosmokes]

56. then please don't allow your precious spawn to ruin the dining experience of

lots of other people. i realise that you probably aren't guilty of such a thing, but for the rest of us who don't dote on your little one and believe his or her shit don't stink, as others have said, after a minute or two of non-stop wailing at the top of their lungs it's time to give the rest of us a break. thanks.

[blondeatlast]

70. Here's a suggestion--avoid, at all costs, restaurants with crayons, high chairs, and kid's menus

at the "maitre'd's" stand. Especially on, well, um, MOTHER'S Day?!

Last I looked, GC had all of the above.

:eyes:

[Beaverhausen]

79. Newflash- crayons are offered to keep the child's attention - they aren't a license to scream

yes, this was a family restaurant. That doesn't mean children are allowed to scream non-stop.

[blondeatlast]

84. But if that kind of thing annoys you that much, find another restaurant.

Seriously--it's a freaking Golden Corral, not Ruth's Chris. You have a choice.

[Beaverhausen]

100. Jesus Christ- screaming in any restaurant is NOT COOL!

That mother should have taken the child outside to calm down - the same way 99% of mothers do.

Why are you defending this mother who let her child scream for so long?

And as someone else posted, for most families, it isn't a choice between the local diner or Ruth's Chris whatever. Families go where they can afford to go. Just because a restaurant is inexpensive, that doesn't mean children shouldn't be made to behave.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

130. There's family friendly restaurants...

and then there's screaming kid friendly restaurants. Like, I suppose, Chucky Cheese. Or that walled off playground section of McDonalds.

I haven't been to this "Golden Corral" place, but I'll assume it's like the former.

[gollygee]

136. I would take a screaming baby out of those places too

Loud kids are OK at those places obviously, but screaming babies? Maybe if they cry you could try to settle them for a few minutes, but if that didn't work, I'd still take them out. There's actually a biological response to a screaming baby. Babies are helpless and people respond that strongly to that particular sound because it forces us instinctively to do something about the baby. We evolved to hate the sound of a screaming baby because if we were OK with it babies once upon a time would starve or something. It's a bigger deal than other kinds of kid noise in my opinion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

143. OK, I should have said screaming kids.

OK, OK, shouting kids. And in a large room full of shouting kids I doubt a colicky baby's going to draw any complaints.

[gollygee]

150. Probably not as much

but seeing a screaming baby not being attended to drives me crazy. I keep thinking, "can't you see that baby needs something!" I want to walk the baby around and soothe it or something. But I certainly don't want to scream at it. I don't understand how someone could blame the baby. :(

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

154. Ah, I see what you mean.

Barring it's not a public place wherein the parent isn't being rude to other customers, and I see a baby screaming and the parent isn't doing anything to feed, change, burp, etc. the baby, then I assume the parent's got a case of colic on his/her hand and I've got nothing but sympathy.

[treestar]

301. That's a good point

Then we ask why the mother was putting up with it herself. Interesting. You'd have thought she'd have been the first to do something about it.

And taking the kid out is logical, because the kid's not happy in there.

[JVS]

119. Oh, so only people with big money should expect not to have kids scream in their ears?

[fudge stripe cookays]

Um newsflash...some people can't AFFORD Ruth's Chris!

And the woman was taking her MOTHER out for Mother's Day. Perhaps her parents really ENJOY Golden Corral!

Just because they don't use Limoges on the tables doesn't mean we wanna hear your fucking kid scream its head off. Get it?

She asked her nicely SEVERAL times. What was she supposed to do exactly? She paid for her meal too. She should have been able to enjoy it.

[gollygee]

199. She asked nicely?

I agree that the mom should have taken the baby out until he/she settled, but I am not under the impression that anyone at any time was nice in this situation. It sounds like they were both pretty awful.

What she *should* have done was to tell the manager to ask the woman to take the crying baby out until the baby settled.

[Scout]

256. "She asked nicely?"

The sergeant said witnesses told him Christine Lewandowski, 56, repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo to quiet her 1-year-old child, who was sitting in a high chair and screaming.

When the infant continued to scream, Ms. Lewandowski shouted at the baby to “shut up,” Sergeant Kikolski said.

That’s when Ms. Harris lunged at Ms. Lewandowski and began punching the woman, the sergeant said.

[gollygee]

272. Nowhere there does it say she asked *nicely*

They both sound like they're in the wrong to me. Maybe she asked rudely every single time and that's why the mother didn't respond? I don't know.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

244. Not everyone can afford Ruth's Chris.

I know people for whom even going to golden corral is stretching their budget. It's all about doing what you can afford... and if GC is what you can afford... there's an expectation that there are kids there... but there's no reason why it needs to be turned into romper room. It's all about respecting your fellow diners... on both ends.

[nosmokes]

86. crayons aren't a license for bad manners

and there are other families there who may not be able to afford to go someplace else or who aldo have kids that manage to use the crayons w/o spoiling the meal of everyone else in the joint. no one is saying your kid can't be a kid - i'm not especting perfect silence. but when the kid screams nonstop for more than a minute that's the cut-off. that's when someone needs to pu the little windbag and go outside. sit in the car if it's too cold/hot/rainy. but just because your kid is outta sorts doesn't give you a right to ruin my meal.period. it's your kid and your responsibility.

[blondeatlast]

89. But they are a BIG clue. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. They're a big clue kids will be in the restaurant.

Your kid screaming is a BIG clue that you need to do something about your kid.

[toddaa]

83. What, pray tell, is the dining experience of the Golden Corral like

I suspect the kid was doing everyone a favor by distracting them from the brownish lumps of food like substances on their plates.

[woo me with science]

161. lol. nt

[LisaL]

186. It's all you can eat buffet.

At least the one around here is.

[momster]

263. They Do have Good Fresh Rolls

but the rest of the food is your basic School Cafeteria staples. Some places have steak but it's not cooked to order. It's a good place to take a picky child because they have everything a kid will eat. Mostly, however, it's for older people on a restricted budget because you can eat a whole lot for very little coin. At least, that's who I used to see in there when I had a small, picky child -- she was never a screamer though, even as a baby.

[EnviroBat]

297. It's about 2 steps above a prison mess hall...

But there are no signs which read "Screaming Babies Welcome!"

[toddaa]

308. Prison mess halls welcome screaming babies?

Doesn't that violate the 8th Amendment?

[EnviroBat]

312. Do you mean there's still a constitution?

I thought Bush did away with that pesky document already...

[JVS]

116. If you don't want it to happen, don't create the situation. Shut the kid up

[Catherine Vincent]

203. I would try my best to quiet my child.

Or I would take him/her outside. But if someone yelled "SHUT UP" before I was able to do that, I would probably curse at them to STFU themselves.

[ProudDad]

223. I wouldn't have yelled "shut up" at your child

I would have simply had the manager eject you and your child from the premises.

On Edit: but I'm sure you wouldn't have subjected the rest of us to the child's screaming. :hi:

[Catherine Vincent]

243. Oh really now?

And I would be waiting for you outside. :hi:

[ProudDad]

269. Ah

"And I would be waiting for you outside."

Well that explains why your kid was screaming...the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :hi:

[KansDem]

34. Looks like the restaurant should be renamed the "Golden Gloves Corral." (nt)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Punchin Her In The Face Was A Bit Too Far. I Would've Given Her Fair Warning First.

If I was the mother, I would've first said something like "Listen you miserable bitch... If you ever tell my kid to shut up again I'm gonna fly over this table and you're gonna be sorry. Now turn around, eat your fuckin dinner and shut the fuck up".

At least give her ample warning that her continued action can result in aggressive behavior. That way she can make an educated decision as to whether or not she wants to push the envelope to that level.

But in the absence of prior warning or escalation, just jumpin up and poundin her in the face was taking it a bit too far.

[LisaL]

37. There is nothing I hate more than parents who bring

their crying, annoying brats with them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. And I Care Why?

I really don't, ya know.

[KAZ]

212. But you will get to know me right quick, tough guy, if you...

... get in my face after NOT quieting your screaming brat. And I'm sure the "shut up" was for the stupid parents, not the kid. While 1-2 minutes of shrieking is certainly understandable, after that, a good parent will remove the child for some quiet time. IMHO, shut your fucking kid up, or stay the fuck home.

Sorry OMC. As a DINK, I have very little tolerance for lousy parenting.

[Name removed]

225. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

230. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[blondeatlast]

48. To restaurants that offer crayons and kids menus... the very nerve...

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

139. The crayons are BRIBES to keep the kid pacified - NOT a license to scream.

They're a clue! The clue is "Keep your kid civilized. Here's help."

[JVS]

152. Yes. Crayons are to keep kids quiet. This means short bursts of noise...

are probably tolerable, but let's keep things reasonable people.

[Dervill Crow]

57. Then you probably don't go to many restaurants that supply crayons to their patrons.

Maybe the sitter had to spend Mother's Day with her own mom. Maybe some act of god/dess prevented naptime and a normally well-behaved child is embodying the devil incarnate.

What I wonder is what the mother was doing. I can understand her being angry if someone told her child to shut up, but what I can't understand is why she didn't take effective action to quiet the kid before it escalated to that.

I had a pretty shitty Mother's Day myself, but at least no one had to go to hospital. :rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. There's nothing I have less sympathy for than people

Who feel that other people's children ruin their life experience.

Am I overstating? Hmm...

No, no I'm not, there's no one I have less sympathy for.

[Dastard Stepchild]

133. I couldn't agree more :)

I never thought I was particularly gifted in my ability to tune out the very minor irritations of life, but it must be a rare and wonderful treasure indeed to not have a fussy child ruin my dining experience.
:)

[LisaL]

189. Why should people who are trying to eat be subjected to

someone else' crying baby? I have no sympathy for parents with those crying babies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

250. Because they are patrons too.

If you go to a family restaurant, you'll see kids. If that is inconsistent with the upscale experience you're looking for, choose a place that doesn't say "family restaurant" in 8" tall letters on the front.

[ProudDad]

226. Cool

Then let me know when and where you're eating out next and I'll bring along a trumpet to blow in your freakin' ear while you're trying to eat...

Okay?

[lumberjack_jeff]

239. Sure.

Then I'll choose:
a) ask the management to request that you desist, or
b) yell at you, since your analogy relies upon the presumption that you have as little self-control as a one-year-old, to shut up.

If I choose to do the latter, I'm prepared to take responsiblity for the resulting brawl.

[shrike]

291. Let me know. I'll join you.

Bring along my niece's conga drums. Maybe we'll make a combo.

[Madspirit]

113. Then DON'T

If you don't want to hear kids don't go to a restaurant that is specifically a FAMILY restaurant. ...and the lady, IF she felt a need to complain, should have complained to the management and asked for another seat. She absolutely had NO right to yell at that BABY.
What kind of freak would yell at a BABY.
Lee

[TommyO]

316. Maybe the person that's sick and tired of parents not taking responsibility

for their screaming spawn, after repeatedly asking them to handle the situation.

[CBGLuthier]

123. really?

In the entire world? Nothing you hate MORE.

You like Hitler more than a parent with a crying baby?

Bush?

Child murderer rapists.

See, personally, there is nothing I hate more than hyperbole. :-)

[porque no]

40. Oooooooh, scary.

You sound really tough, are you really tough?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. What In The World Are You Talking About?

You're just being silly willy. :crazy:

[porque no]

42. You talk pretty tough

just wondering if you are really tough, or do you just talk tough.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. Both. But Both Are Irrelevant To This Discussion. You Are Just Being Really Silly.

I mean, you're treating this like some 'tough guy wannabe' discussion when that's like soooooooooo not the context of this thread. It's about an event that ALREADY happened. The woman ALREADY hauled off and beat the shit out of the other one. It's in the pasttttttt already. I'm just saying that she should have given her fair warning first, via 'talking tough', in order to give her the head's up that if she continued she was about to get pummeled. That's opposed to going straight to the pummeling part, since she did.

Since we're talking about an ACTUAL event that ACTUALLY happened, with the 'tough' part ALREADY having had taken place, you're entire insinuated accusation is monumentally silly and enough to make me laugh out loud at its absurdity.

Like I said; so silly willy. :crazy:

[porque no]

50. You're initial statement was ridiculous, so I thought

I might try to find out where it came from. Obviously it came from you being such a tough guy/girl. You are apparently an all around tough guy/girl, now I know, not just a tough talker, but tough.

I really liked this part:

"I would've first said something like "Listen you miserable bitch... If you ever tell my kid to shut up again I'm gonna fly over this table and you're gonna be sorry. Now turn around, eat your fuckin dinner and shut the fuck up"."

That is some tough talk.

and this:

"At least give her ample warning that her continued action can result in aggressive behavior"

Is that ample warning that you are going to assault her?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. Since You Haven't Addressed It, What About The Statement Was Ridiculous?

I find it to be perfectly fine.

As far as your 'tough guy' insinuation, it really is quite silly. See, if this had been a thread referencing a story in which a woman confronted another woman, and the other woman turned away timidly, and I responded with "fuck that, she shouldn't have walked away, she shoulda pummeled the livin shit out of her" blah blah blah, then I could begin to see even the slightest bit of logical credibility to the insinuation. But no; that's not in fact what this thread is referencing now is it. Instead, it was about a woman who DID do something tough, and I simply gave the advice that she shoulda started off doing something LESS tough prior to doing the tough thing she ALREADY did. So to turn around and insinuate that I was acting like a 'tough guy' because I advised she shoulda done something LESS tough to start with, is one of the most monumentally silly responses to a post of mine I've ever seen. I hope you understand the distinction, but if ya don't, ahhhhh well. :rofl:

[porque no]

59. Silly, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly, I'm just being so silly.

Your imaginary confrontation where you tell an older woman that she better "shut the fuck up and eat her fuckin' meal or you're gonna fly across this table blah blah blah blah blah" or whatever it was, I found to be ridiculous. Sue me.

The young mother was waaaaaay out of line and should spend a little time in the clinker. Regardless of how tough one is, or thinks one is, it is against the law to assault someone for trying to get some peace at their meal, even if she did yell at your precious screamer.

The mother should have taken her child out of the restaurant after the initial complaint, until the child felt better and had calmed down. You instead, chose to humor us with your imaginary, mui, mui, macho routine. Ridiculous. Hopefully, no one takes it as an example of what to do in a similar situation.

Silly me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. .....

:boring:

[Forkboy]

127. I'll take "Just talk" for $100 Alex.

[Madspirit]

121. He's a Dad

...and no one should yell at a BABY. The lady who yelled at the baby was a FREAK.
Lee

[Dervill Crow]

45. I like your more reasoned approach.

:rofl:

[flvegan]

69. Assault is always the best measure.

Ample warning that her "action" (speech) can result in (your) aggressive behavior. Yeah, okay. That's much better.

I'd have told you, in this scenario that I'd be happy to once you learned to be a proper parent in public and quieted your child down or left if you couldn't.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. You Either Don't Have Kids Or Had One Rare Enough To Not Cry In Restaurants.

Either way, your expectation of what makes one a 'proper parent' in public is way misguided.

First of all, this was a family restaurant.

Second of all, there was no mention in the article as to how long the kid was screaming. Was it five minutes? Ten minutes? A half hour? An hour? Was it constant? Was it intermittent? Was it short lived but repeated? Do you know any of the answers to these questions? What exactly is the 'proper' time limit one should be allowed to soothe their child in a FAMILY restaurant before realizing it to be now the 'proper parenting' thing to do to leave? Just what is that threshold? Was that threshold met? Are you just making judgments based on utter ignorance to fact just to make a point that could be completely wrong and misguided?

Way I see it, prior to the whole pounding the bitch in the face thing the other woman may not have done a thing wrong. What I DO know; however, is that looking a stranger's baby in the eyes and screaming at it to 'SHUT UP' is disgraceful and wrong ALWAYS.

[flvegan]

88. What you miss is

I didn't say anything about the kid. What I said was that your reaction would have been not only stupid, but criminal. Don't try to rationalize your shitty response.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

153. So What You're Saying's That I Zinged Ya Good With The Logical Challenge And That Now You Are Forced

to abandon your latter premise altogether, while deflecting back to the former, in an attempt to act as if the latter premise never existed? Ok, I'll let ya get away with that and will just take that as an agreement between us that I did in fact make damn good points that caused you to realize the latter position was probably a bit rushed in judgment.

As far as the 'criminal' aspect of the premise, well you're absolutely right. Actually doing what I said in real life would be absolutely immature, irrational, dramatic and criminal. But let it be known that one shouldn't set their expectations so high to think that if they scream at my one year old to his face telling him to shut up, that I'm going to react in a rational and polite manner.

Hey, nobody's perfect. But I am honest.

[flvegan]

159. No, what I'm saying

is that you missed the point and are just digging a bigger hole.

You zinged nobody. You made an irrational post that suggested you'd act in a criminal, nonsensical manner.

Your points are shit. "Going over the table" after somebody? Brilliant. As the aggressor, better be damn good and sure that your intended victim won't pummel the shit outta you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

166. If Ya Say So, But I Disagree. In Fact, Could You Point Out Exactly Where

these points are that I'm missing or how I'm missing them? Cause the way I see it, I've addressed EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM quite plainly and bluntly. All I see is you again backtracking from the one point you had made and deflecting from it as if you hadn't said it, when you did. But it's not like I'm just focusing on that one point you made that I decimated with sound logical argument, since I in fact DID address your other points as well. So if you want to keep claiming there's some point I'm missing when I've in fact addressed them all, go for it dude. But I'd love to see ya defend that premise with actual fact. :hi:

[flvegan]

179. Yes, all about you.

At least you're consistent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

185. With All Due Respect Bub, It Was You Who Made It About Me.

Prior to that, I was merely offering my opinion like every other single person in this thread was. But if it makes you feel internally satisfied somehow to resort to personal attack as opposed to recognizing the context of the discussion and the fact that I addressed your points masterfully to the point of your avoidance of them, then go for it! :hi:

[flvegan]

187. Check again.

[Scout]

192. "I Zinged Ya Good With The Logical Challenge "

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JVS]

195. Maybe this should become a DU stock-phrase

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

135. Have you got kids?

"You Either Don't Have Kids Or Had One Rare Enough To Not Cry In Restaurants."

I'm only asking, but I can't imagine anybody who's raised an infant, and think there'd be such a thing as an infant of the latter variety.

Because any infant is going to scream, the difference is that good parents well mannered adults, while they probably drown out their kids at home, are going to take their screaming kids outside when they're in public.

*emphasis added because this has nothing to do with responsible parenting, but being a polite member of society.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

145. Please Read The Post Again And See If You Can Reply Better To It This Time.

Obviously, the latter part of the opening sentiment was meant as a not likely (hence the word rare, in this case meaning highly unlikely as opposed to say, raw meat) so your addressing as such, as if that were a surprise somehow, is a bit perplexing.

But what struck me as odd even more is how you repeated the same previous point about being 'proper parents' while failing to address or answer any of the questions I put forth about that. Now why did you just conveniently ignore the entire return premise and the questions I issued as a challenge? Is it because you couldn't or because you know I made a valid point and don't want to have to acknowledge that? Just kinda weird that you replied to my post by first restating the obvious and then secondly by re-issuing a previous point made by somebody else that I already tore apart logically, as if that whole reply on my part had never taken place. Really quite strange.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

151. Your subject line was so absurd, I simply had to ask.

Absent an answer, I'll once again assume "no."

As for your questions, OK:

"Second of all (first of all, yes, it's a family restaurant. So what? That's no reason for this mother to be an asshole), there was no mention in the article as to how long the kid was screaming. Was it five minutes? Ten minutes? A half hour? An hour? Was it constant? Was it intermittent? Was it short lived but repeated? Do you know any of the answers to these questions? What exactly is the 'proper' time limit one should be allowed to soothe their child in a FAMILY restaurant before realizing it to be now the 'proper parenting' thing to do to leave? Just what is that threshold? Was that threshold met? Are you just making judgments based on utter ignorance to fact just to make a point that could be completely wrong and misguided?"

Well that's all very subjective. Which makes it irrelevant. However long it was, it was enough to piss off the other customers, and that means it was long enough that the mother should have done something.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

156. Actually The Subject Line Looks Pretty Spot On Really.

You still haven't said why it's absurd, but whatever.

As far as your declaration that my questions are subjective and irrelevant, that's just silly on its face. They couldn't possibly be more relevant to the premise put forth in which they were directed. Furthermore, you said it was long enough to piss off the other customers. Customers? Where was it shown in the article that there was more than one? Can you point that out to me or are you just making that up? In addition, are you really taking such a silly logical road to declare my questions as being subjective yet having the audacity to think you can declare that the bar of 'long enough' is set by the time it takes for ANY one person to get pissed? Holy cow! :rofl: Talk about subjective. If the baby cried for 30 seconds and that was enough to piss the woman off, you truly consider that as being too long to wait for the mother to have left the restaurant? Are you actually serious? :rofl:

And yes, I have two amazing boys who are my life, 21 months and 3 1/2 years. I'd ask ya if you had any kids but I'm almost scared of what your answer would be, so I'll refrain.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

157. It might be over your head. No big deal.

"If the baby cried for 30 seconds and that was enough to piss the woman off, you truly consider that as being too long to wait for the mother to have left the restaurant? Are you actually serious?"

Do you actually believe this woman got pissed off after 30 seconds of a crying baby? Are you serious?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

162. I Believe It Is You, Good Sir, Who Might Be Missing The Point.

Unless you can tell me how long is too long or some direct reference as to how long it ACTUALLY had been, then your entire point is subjective and rhetorical and you have no technical basis to stand on.

Like my original point was to begin with: You can't call the woman an 'improper parent' because we simply DON'T KNOW how long it had been, what she had been trying or if she technically had been at any fault (prior to the beating, of course LOL). What we DO know, is that some miserable piece of garbage woman turned to a one year old's face and screamed at it to SHUT UP. So I can say factually that the latter woman is a piece of miserable garbage, while we can't just the former woman (prior to her actions of beating, anyway) due to lack of facts.

So feel free to keep repeating that it is going over my head, but I believe it is you, good sir, who has completely failed to see the point.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

167. Well, gee whiz OMC.

Maybe if the assault victim had yelled at the baby shortly after it started screaming, then maybe you'd have a point.

And maybe I'm the queen of the sugarplum fairies.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

171. You're Still Avoiding The Issue.

How long is too long? Are there any facts as to how long it was? Is there any guideline as to what too long is until one is no longer a proper parent? Since this was the context I was responding to and the context in which you chose to jump into, in your absence of being able to actually answer those questions directly without deflective sarcasm is that then logical sign that I was right in my response to begin with and your objection was without merit? :hi:

[Scout]

259. "turned to a one year old's face and screamed at it to SHUT UP"

find me that quote from the article please?

The sergeant said witnesses told him Christine Lewandowski, 56, repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo to quiet her 1-year-old child, who was sitting in a high chair and screaming.

When the infant continued to scream, Ms. Lewandowski shouted at the baby to “shut up,” Sergeant Kikolski said.

That’s when Ms. Harris lunged at Ms. Lewandowski and began punching the woman, the sergeant said.

doesn't say she "turned to a one year old's face and screamed at it"

for all we know she was still sitting at her table ... perhaps that's why the infant's piece of garbage mother had to lunge at her in order to begin punching her

[ProudDad]

232. I've been to dozens of "family restaurants"

I have never been subjected to the level of abuse that this article indicates.

I HAVE been there with my kid who would be taken outside if she acted up too much.

I HAVE been there with my grandkid who would be taken outside by my considerate daughter if he acted up too much.

I HAVE seen dozens of other folks take their kids outside or go home when they acted up too much.

The woman who ignores her kid after being repeatedly asked to do something about the noise and then physically attacks the victim of her disinterest is the one with a problem.

"What I DO know; however, is that looking a stranger's baby in the eyes and screaming at it to 'SHUT UP' is disgraceful and wrong ALWAYS."

I agree, I would have had the management throw them out. If they wouldn't throw them out, I'd call the cops and report a breach of the peace.

[lumberjack_jeff]

108. No. The fair warning is when I put down my utensils.

If I were in Mom's shoes, the time it takes for me to set down my fork and get out of my chair - about 5 microseconds - is all the warning anyone who screams at my 1-year old gets.

[JVS]

124. WE'RE TAKING THIS TO THE MAT!

[Scout]

194. omc's profile comment

"It's all about integrity, respect, honesty, decency, open mindedness, fairness, and genuine desire to wish good upon all. That is why I'm a liberal."


hmmmmm, curious conflict, no?

[JVS]

198. In my house the motto is "It's all about being dilligent, day in and day out."

We got that from Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII or IX. Koei wisdom never dies.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

206. It Is. Ya Don't Scream At A Stranger's One Year Old Baby To Shut Up.

And don't mind me if I laugh my ass off at the once again showing of the weakest argument one can make as to yet again attempt to use my profile line as fodder for argument, as if it is relevant to this discussion somehow. It cracks my ass up when I see it used that way, as if that made the person smart somehow! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[KAZ]

233. OMC shows he's a tough guy to the 56 year old woman.

Classy.

[Moochy]

241. Mucho Mas ITG!

[Catherine Vincent]

249. That may not be classy but there are a lot of folks around that

would say exactly what OMC said to the woman. I have to confess that one of those folks would be one of my siblings. She's just like that. We are totally opposite. She is one of those people that get all upset if someone does something wrong with one of her grandkids. She'll go up to the school and make a scene. Her daugher doesn't tell her anything anymore. She is also one of those drivers that do not let others in front of her, she's practically a fourth of a inch from the bumper in front of her just so she won't let anyone in front... and she is constantly flipping the bird to other bad drivers. Once she had cut someone off on the freeway and the guy followed her when she existed to the service road and they were cursing at each other when they were at the stop light. This went on for a few minutes and eventually they went their separate ways. She was talking like this with my mother in the car. I tell her all the time she shouldn't behave that way when she is driving because people are allowed to have guns in their cars now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

258. Actually, I Didn't. But Nice Try.

It was advisement to the woman who assaulted her. I said nothing more than that it was unfair for her to lunge at her and assault her without having at least given her fair indication that things could escalate to that degree. So your attempt to spin this as I'm the one who assaulted her is monumentally silly. :crazy:

[FourScore]

36. Ahh! Quality family time! n/t

[RB TexLa]

39. I can't believe we haven't seen the following statements

There is nothing more beautiful than a screaming baby

A baby screaming is natural

A picture of Hugo Chavez calmly talking alongside a screaming baby

You were once a baby too

[slackmaster]

54. An armed baby is a polite baby

:argh:

[seabeyond]

77. but a 56 yr old woman screamin at a 1 yr old is REALLY mature

rollin eyes.

woman sittin terrific example for how we want our children to grow up and interact with each other, ...

[Philosoraptor]

78. I would only add that shitty smelling babies are beautiful too.

[nam78_two]

91. LOL.nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. I wonder how many daytime talk shows are rushing to book this crew now?

They sound like the perfect sort of guest for that type of show.

[derby378]

51. "GET SOME, GRANDMA! GET SOME!"

I am in utter shock. This, my friends, is George W. Bush's America.

[joshcryer]

52. We should ban crying babies next!

[Philosoraptor]

71. I think they should be made silent genetically.

You can arrange for special pills to take while pregnant to ensure a silent baby that doesn't develop speech till they're 12.

[blondie58]

112. sure, NOW you tell me!

But after 12 isn't much better. I say that being the mother of a snotty nosed selfish little sixteen year old.

I sure can't wait until she becomes human again.

[ProudDad]

234. I've got GOOD NEWS

You've only got about 14 years to go!!!

(Just kidding -- you only have about 5 years, 6 max, depending on the breaks.)

It was Mark Twain who said, "I used to think my father was such a boob when I was 16. By the time I was twenty, I was amazed at how much he'd learned in four short years!"

[joshcryer]

170. I know you're joking but that'd mess up their speech development. :P

Kids are fun and interesting. If I see a crying baby next to me I'll quiet it just by talking.

[AlCzervik]

58. "Shoot out at the Golden Corral!" yeehaw.

[Philosoraptor]

61. With Wyatt Burp and Doc Hollandaise.

Sorry.

[AlCzervik]

62. Well played.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Philosoraptor]

60. I git the same dam way when nairs too much got dam oregano!

[Philosoraptor]

67. Maybe all these screaming republican babies should go enlist.

Instead of being a public nuisance.

[lpbk2713]

74. You aint heard nuthin yet ....

Just wait till January '08.

:thumbsup:

[Philosoraptor]

73. Will that be screaming babies, or non screaming babies?

Non screaming babies please, (no honey we're in a hurry), oh, either section is fine.

[blondeatlast]

80. This is WAY funnier than the Lounge thread on the topic!

Kudos, GDers! :rofl:

[Philosoraptor]

82. Yes but they have TONS of funny cat pics.

[blondeatlast]

92. Please remove.

I kill myself sometimes! :rofl:

[Philosoraptor]

95. Good God don't bring 'please remove' over here!

[blondeatlast]

...

:spank:

[Philosoraptor]

81. Hey lady, in 5 minutes my kid will be quiet but you'll still be ugly!

[blondeatlast]

87. Edit: reply misdirected. nt

[ProudDad]

235. In 5 minutes the management will

have thrown your ass out of here and you'll still have to listen to that shit...

[breakaleg]

85. If they wanted quiet, they should have sprung for a nicer restaurant than a "buffet" or family one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. Oh, sure, blame the victim.

:rofl:

[breakaleg]

93. The same victim that yelled at a 1 year old to "shut up". She started it and the mother

was defending her child. As any good parent would have.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. Hey, if she didn't want her kid getting told to shut up...

she should have been a good parent and kept the little brat at home.

:shrug:

[Philosoraptor]

96. I've never met a 1 yr. old that wasn't a complete selfish brat.

Including my self of course.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. I never met a parent...

that didn't take their kid outside, to the bathroom, lobby, etc. when they were at a restaurant, movie, etc. when they started screaming. At least not the complete selfish brat parents.

:thumbsup:

[Codeine]

265. Fine. Leave 'em at home.

I didn't create all these repellent little crotch droppings, why should I be forced to interact with them?

[gollygee]

276. The same reason you have to interact with any other people

they're part of society. If you don't want to be part of society, then you can choose to stay home.

If babies are screaming in a restaurant, they should be taken outside until they settle down. But there is no reason why babies should be kept home all the time just because you don't like them.

[breakaleg]

103. "little brat"? Your opinion in this case has about as much value as those two words. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. Hey, it's your argument.

The whole "blame the victim" thing.

:rofl:

[breakaleg]

109. calling a baby a little brat - that's all you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

114. Yeah, but blaming the victim's all you.

"calling a baby a little brat - that's all you."

I, as it turned out, was being facetious.

You?

[breakaleg]

134. When she yelled at a one year old, she ceased to be the victim and became the instigator.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

137. Hence "blaming the victim."

That's like saying a woman instigated rape by wearing skimpy clothing. I don't meant to a hard analogy for such a silly story, but that's usually when people blame the victim.

If anybody instigated anything, it's this asshole who didn't take her kid outside.

[gollygee]

138. The ultimate victim here is the baby

both a victim of being screamed at by a stranger (scary for a baby) and a victim of needing his/her mother's attention (hence the screaming) and apparently being ignored.

[JVS]

129. or shut the baby up herself like the lady had asked

[ProudDad]

237. Riiiiiiggggghhhhhttttt....

"The sergeant said witnesses told him Christine Lewandowski, 56, repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo to quiet her 1-year-old child, who was sitting in a high chair and screaming."

REPEATEDLY ASKED and the "mother" ignored her pleas. Hardly a "good parent".

[Beaverhausen]

102. Maybe they couldn't afford a "nicer" restaurant

The mother of the screaming child should have quieted her child or taken it outside. Period.

[LostinVA]

293. They are nicer places than the Golden Corral that are cheaper than the GC

Seriously. My nephew loved that place when he was younger. It's horrible. A Chuck E. Cheese is calmer and has better food. For real.

[shrike]

285. "Nicer" restaurants get them, too. Try FIVE screaming kids

Over the course of an entire meal. And four parents, talking louder and louder because, of course, the kids are getting louder and louder. Happened to us.

Nobody should punch anybody, of course. It's possible that some people get so fed up with parents (a small minority, btw) who feel their children should be allowed to anything they want because they're "kids."
(BTW, should kids be allowed to misbehave just because the
Again, violence is never appropriate. DH and I suffered through the meal (we were right next to these people) because we felt so sorry for our waitress; she looked to be about eighteen, and not only were the kids screaming but their parents turned out to be patrons from hell. We've decided that if it happens again, we will talk to the manager.

Funny thing was, there about five other families on this particular day (it was an upscale Italian place with plenty of things kids like.) They looked as unhappy as we felt, even the kids. Nobody likes to eat dinner in a relatively small space, with all that noise.

[AndyA]

97. The fault lies with the mother of the screaming child

She does not have the right to disrupt the entire restaurant with her child's loud screaming, regardless of what type of establishment it is. Just because you go to a cheap place means you have to put up with anything others dining in the restaurant want to inflict upon you? BULLSHIT.

Everyone else there has the right to eat their food and enjoy the occasion in peace, after all, they are paying for their meal, so they shouldn't have to tolerate bad behavior on the part of other patrons or their children.

I had a similar incident happen to me once, although it didn't break out in a fight. This kid was a couple of years old, and was allowed to run around the restaurant unsupervised, stand and walk around the corner booth his family was sitting in (with street shoes on, good for the upholstery!)

From time to time, he would just shreik as loud as he could. That would be followed by yelling and screaming. The mother was oblivious to any of this activity, just sat there eating and talking to others in her party. At no point did anyone at that table do anything to address this child's behavior.

I gave the mother a couple of dirty looks, hoping she'd get the hint and TAKE CARE OF HER CHILD. But she didn't, she just returned them. All over the restaurant, people were looking at that table because the kid was so noisy.

Finally, I asked the waiter to have the manager stop by the table. I asked him to do something about the unruly child, and he said it was against restaurant policy. :wow: My conversation with the manager was not missed by the mother.

At that point, I looked over at the mother and she said something to the effect that I should just "shut the f*ck up, g*ddamned f*ggot!"

We decided it was time to leave, and I got up and walked over to the table where I told the woman, "Now I understand why everyone hates white trash so much. And make no mistake, EVERYONE in this restaurant right now hates you and your ill-mannered child."

She acted like she was going to get up, and I told her if she did, I would knock the ever lovin' * out of her, because she was no lady. Her husband/brother/boyfriend/cousin/trick was a scrawny little thing, and I told him he would be much better off without such a c*nt for a wife/sister/girlfriend/cousin/trick.

And that was the end of that. I would normally never confront anyone in that manner, but when all else fails, sometimes you just have to take action.

The restaurant did not charge us for our meal, and the manager apologized to us on our way out. I contacted the corporate offices the following day, and that policy, if it ever existed, has been changed.

[breakaleg]

105. So, you threatened to beat the shit out of because "SHE" was no lady? hmmm.....

[AndyA]

274. I guess you had to be there to understand how bad it really was.

And no, she was no lady. Not even close.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

111. It was her fault twice over.

1. She should have taken the kid outside, especially after asked. But that's just manners.

2. She started the actual criminal assault. That's above and beyond just bad manners.

[JVS]

132. I salute you!

And from experience I can tell you that her husband/ boyfriend/ cousine etc. wasn't going to do shit. I have noticed that when half of a couple is acting like an ass, the other half is usually reluctant to come to their aid.

[frankenforpres]

278. good for you

i dont blame the child, i blame the parents

STAY HOME. Get a sitter. If you cant afford a sitter. STAY HOME

[gollygee]

106. Stupid, stupid, stupid people

If your baby screams in a restaurant, you take the baby out to the lobby. Or to the car. Someplace else. I don't think *she* should have as it was Mother's Day and she should have been able to finish her dinner - I think it was the dad's job in this instance. My husband and I used to take turns, but on Mother's Day, it would have been him. Of course, we would NEVER NEVER NEVER have had Mother's Day dinner at the Golden Corral. Anyway, the baby should have been out of there. And I don't care how down-market the place is. A little bit of noise isn't a big deal at a family place, and those kinds of places are loud enough that you don't hear a bit of noise anyway. But screaming? I don't care if you're at McDonald's, you take a screaming baby away from everyone else.

But, no matter how pissed off you are, never never never scream at a baby. It isn't the baby's fault. Yell at the mom. Contact the management. I don't care what you do, don't scream at the baby.

And then, physical violence isn't a good way to deal with these kinds of situations either.

So they're both stupid as sin.

[TahitiNut]

142. Agreed.

[jazzjunkysue]

227. The presecution rests, your honor. It's called "Take Out."

And it was designed for families with babies.

Agree whole-heartedly.

If you don't want your own dinner interrupted by your own screaming baby,

don't go out in public with one.

Bring dinner home for a couple of years until the kid grows up a little. And if it's not a holiday, get a friggin' sitter.

[Matsubara]

117. Ah the Golden Corral...

a classier feeding trough there never has been...

[Philosoraptor]

128. It's the Great Crying Baby/Mother's Day restaurant brawl flamewar thread!

The horror, the horror.....will it be locked or nominated for the DUzy Awards?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

140. Neither.

You'll notice Jeff wisely picks his nominees from threads that actually involve politics.

:rofl:

[Philosoraptor]

149. I see it as screaming Sunnis and Shrieking Shiites.

Insurgent bystanders, poor management at the top, no clear exit strategy, there's politics if you really look for it.

[blondeatlast]

160. some people say Halliburton owns Golden Corral, too.

Cheney still claims never to have said it, though.

:rofl:

[Blue_Tires]

141. I'm not saying I'd yell "shut up" to a screaming one-year-old

but I damn sure understand the sentiment:silly: :crazy: :nuke: :yoiks:

Only in America...the only way this story could have been better was if it happened on a plane:evilgrin:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

147. There's two kinds of people in this world.

The kind that admit they understand the sentiment, and the kind who won't.

:rofl:

On a plane is the only time I don't have an urge to through the offender out the door.

[gollygee]

148. On an airplane though

If your kid starts screaming, you have NO WHERE to go. I'm afraid I've had that happen. I did absolutely everything I could think of, including nursing in public, to get her to shut up and she just wouldn't for what felt like ages. People seemed really understanding, but probably because I was obviously trying to stop it. But to see a mother ignore it is particularly maddening, not just because it's annoying but because the baby so obviously needs tending to if he/she is screaming.

[FloridaJudy]

193. Agreed

Oh my goodness, I've been there! Crying babies on airplanes are actually very understandable: their routine has been upset, they've likely missed their regular nap, and their parents have been distracted with frantically trying to make connections without losing any vital objects. In addition, the changes in air pressure hurt the kiddos' ears. Crying actually affords them some relief.

Traveling with infants and toddlers is pure hell - I've done it. As a former neo-natal nurse, I've learned to tune out other folks crying offspring, once I've determined the kid isn't hungry, scared or in grievous pain. All others are advised to pack ear plugs. I believe it was Robert Benchley who remarked that there were two modes of travel: first class, and with children.

As to the restaurant incident, I see two people acting extremely childishly, and I don't include the one-year-old (that's pretty much normal at that age). First, the mother - or other family - of the crying baby should have tried to calm it down. If that didn't work, then taking the kid outside would have been the polite thing to do.

And the woman who screamed at the infant showed total lack of self-control. Yelling at a screaming baby to shut up is guaranteed to make the kid even more hysterical. Faced with this situation, I would have politely complained to the management. If they refused to handle the situation, I would have asked for a take-out container and walked out.

Both parties were at fault. I think they deserve to share the Barbara Bush "Rotten Mother of the Year" award.

[aikoaiko]

144. If I can't control my kid within 5 minutes, I'm out the door with him.

In fact, it just happened today. I squirmed at first, whined, and then screamed. I dropped the money on the table and left.

[breakaleg]

155. As am I. But when I hear a baby scream like that, I feel sympathy for the mother and the baby.

Babies are unpredictable.

[Codeine]

266. And that's why babies

don't belong out in public. Keep the little poop-factory where the only people forced to deal with it are the people that spawned it.

[1620rock]

163. The mother should have pinched the child and really gave it...

...something to cry about.

[Withywindle]

164. I'm a cold and evil woman.

I have no sympathy for any of the major players in this situation. It's just schadenfreuderiffic. :rofl:

[blondeatlast]

168. Say that three times fast (while I write it down!)

:rofl:

[Missy Vixen]

165. The moral of this story

If you don't want to hear shrieking babies, go to a restaurant that does not feature high chairs, crayons or a child's menu.

Part Two: When your favorite upscale restaurant decides to allow a five-year-old's birthday party during your husband's expen$ive birthday meal, stop going to the restaurant. We haven't darkened their doors in the past two years. There's plenty of other establishments more than happy to offer an excellent (and peaceful,) meal instead.

Julie

[lonestarnot]

169. OMG.

If that doesn't take the cake and eat it. :rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

172. "the crowded, buffet-style restaurant"

Well, there's your answer....

:rofl:

I know, I know. I'm a horrible snob, and elitist asshole, etc. Yes. I'm a horrible, elitist snob who doesn't get into fistfights with random people on Mother's Day. That's me!

[RedCappedBandit]

173. If that baby had a gun, everyone would have kept their mouths shut.

Woops, wrong thread!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

174. I have a 14 month old

When she starts getting fussy in a public place, we pick her up and leave that place.

Whoever leaves a screaming baby in a high chair - even in this no account "buffet-style restaurant" (an oxymoron) - is an asshole, and a rude motherfucker.

Now, on to the real purpose of this post. Look at my sweetie pie! Look at her!

[TahitiNut]

184. She's darling! Absolutely.

And I'll bet she "does her job" keeping y'all on your toes. (I like kids that "do their job.")

:silly: I wish I were a parent so I could be a grandparent and drive my kids bonkers by messing with their kids' minds.
:evilgrin:

[DesertRat]

188. Aww, she's adorable!!

I agree with you. When my children were babies, I ate many meals holding one on my lap, or dh and I would take turns eating while the other walked out to the lobby or outside with the baby.

It's insane and cruel to everyone, including the baby, to leave the child screaming in a high chair.

[alcibiades_mystery]

229. We take turns eating

That's exactly right.

Actually, she doesn't really get fussy any more, so we've been able to go out more. When she was smaller, and she would get extremely fussy, we took turns.

Nobody else chose to have a screaming baby right then. We didn't feel that it was right to choose for them, especially when they're spending their hard-earned money.

[truedelphi]

200. Ooh- Aah! A perfect doll face. n/t

[KAZ]

216. You're a lucky guy/gal. She's adorable! n/t

[Crabby Appleton]

217. She is a cutie! nt

[Catherine Vincent]

224. She is a sweetie pie!

Probably took after her mom?

[alcibiades_mystery]

231. God, I hope so

:evilgrin:

[wtmusic]

282. She is A DOLL

:loveya:

[shrike]

290. What a beauty. She almost makes me want to have a kid

And that's saying a lot.

[ellie]

176. I was at this

restaurant at 9 a.m. that morning!

[JVS]

180. Bummer that you missed it!

[ellie]

257. We were

sitting next to a family with six children and I remarked how well behaved they were. No one was screaming or running around.

[RestoreGore]

177. Unreal and unnecessary

People are animals. I once ate at a restaurant where the baby behind us was screaming loudly for at least ten minutes, could have been more. I got up calmly and went over to the mother and asked if there was anything I could do to help her. She was a young woman and I could tell she was inexperienced as a mother. She looked visibly upset that the baby was disturbing the peace (as others were looking over at her) and tried to calm her. I then started to make funny faces at the baby and she stopped crying. Lame attempt but it worked and we actually all got a laugh out of it because I looked like a blooming idiot doing it, but it was worth it. She then thanked me and took the baby outside after I suggested it and then all was well when she came back. No punches needed to be thrown and a melee started. I honestly don't understand what is wrong with people of late between road rage and always wanting to get their licks in verbally and physically at the drop of a hat. Very ugly. What a violent society we live in.

[ulysses]

240. best post of the thread.

:thumbsup:

[mdelaguna2000]

287. I'll second that. Intelligent and sympathetic. Ahhhhh....n/t.

[smalll]

201. I get a kick out of that also, because it's like the internet in real life!

Notice in the story the brawl seemed to erupt pretty fast after the original blow was thrown between the two women (the mother and the lady who complained). A flamefest between the sanctimommies and the "child-free" types!

Now what I'm waiting for is a brawl to break out on the street after somebody sees someone else letting a cat go outside!

[Theres-a]

210. Oh,no you di'int!!!!!!

Let me tell you about my neighbor's outdoor cat............seriesly.

[Redstone]

208. But hey, if EVERYONE had GUNS, this never would have happened!

Redstone

[ProudDad]

211. Mother's Day Proclamation - 1870

by Julia Ward Howe

Arise then...women of this day!
Arise, all women who have hearts!
Whether your baptism be of water or of tears!
Say firmly:
"We will not have questions answered by irrelevant agencies,
Our husbands will not come to us, reeking with carnage,
For caresses and applause.
Our sons shall not be taken from us to unlearn
All that we have been able to teach them of charity, mercy and patience.
We, the women of one country,
Will be too tender of those of another country
To allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs."

From the voice of a devastated Earth a voice goes up with
Our own. It says: "Disarm! Disarm!
The sword of murder is not the balance of justice."
Blood does not wipe our dishonor,
Nor violence indicate possession.
As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil
At the summons of war,
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great and earnest day of counsel.
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the means
Whereby the great human family can live in peace...
Each bearing after his own time the sacred impress, not of Caesar,
But of God -
In the name of womanhood and humanity, I earnestly ask
That a general congress of women without limit of nationality,
May be appointed and held at someplace deemed most convenient
And the earliest period consistent with its objects,
To promote the alliance of the different nationalities,
The amicable settlement of international questions,
The great and general interests of peace.

[seabeyond]

214. btw people, we are taking the word of a woman who screams at a 1 yr old

that this baby was making all kinds of racked non stop screaming, when in reality this baby might have just made excited noises here and there and MAYBE it wasnt the big deal that a 56 yr old woman that would SCREAM at a 1 yr old says it was. some people cant seem to handle a child that makes any noise what so ever. feels all children should be not only NOT heard, but not seen either. i would like to hear from other people to know if this baby was truly even being disruptive.

[Scout]

218. you obviously did NOT actually read the story...

The sergeant said witnesses told him Christine Lewandowski, 56, repeatedly asked Sylvia Harris, 24, of Toledo to quiet her 1-year-old child, who was sitting in a high chair and screaming.

When the infant continued to scream, Ms. Lewandowski shouted at the baby to “shut up,” Sergeant Kikolski said.

you just go right ahead and make up your own reality :eyes:
"in reality this baby might have just made excited noises here and there"

[seabeyond]

228. my mistake

i did read the story, just this morning.

[Scout]

247. sorry to snark at you

:hi:

[seabeyond]

255. snark away, i was wrong. had been a while since reading article

i dont do that often and when it happens, (such blatant error) keeps me on toes again for quite some time

[Lasher]

323. I wish there were more people like you.

So many of us are afraid to admit they have made a mistake. But when we do we earn respect, not scorn.

[JVS]

220. Or maybe we're taking the words of a crazy woman who hits people...

and doesn't keep her child under control.

[Hardrada]

221. In an earlier day, the two women would have stepped outside

to settle it. How could this custom have been forgotten?

[TOhioLiberal]

238. Geez...

What a bunch of wankers. :eyes:

BTW: The 'T' in my name does not, as I so often tell people, stand for 'Toledo'. I'm too embarrassed to be from there. Henceforth, I shall be from Tiffin. Or Tontoganny. Anywhere but here. :blush:

[Downtown Hound]

242. I worked in a movie theater for three years when I was in college

and the single most common complaint I had was about parents with crying youngsters. And these parents wouldn't do a damn thing about it. They just let their kid scream and cry and ruin the movie for everybody. A couple of times I had to kick them out, and if I wasn't a 6'3" well built male, I seriously thought they would have jumped me. I was called every nasty name in the book by some of them.

Sorry, but mark me down on the side of the woman telling her to quiet her kid down. I really have no patience with parents that just let their kids wail and scream when they're in a public place. When you have a child you make a commitment to giving up a lot of your personal life, and if that means that you have to step outside now and again when your kid acts up, then that's what you have to do. That's why I don't have kids yet, and won't until I'm fully ready to make that commitment.

[Scout]

248. you better be wearing your flame-retardant underwear...

'cuz your going to need them...

[Downtown Hound]

252. Oh, I don't know about that

Most people on this thread seem to agree with me. The thing that I think the older woman did wrong was yelling at the kid, and not at it's parents. It's stupid to blame a child for crying, they don't know any better. But parents that let their kids scream in a public place? Can't stand 'em. They need to go outside.

[momster]

264. Little Kids in Grown-Up Movies

I hate that. I esp. hate it when the film is rated PG-13 or R. But there they are, even at the 9:30 shows, bringing their six year old or infant. Then when the screen lights up with loud explosions or some kind of bloody violence, *I*'m the one that's uncomfortable, thinking about the effects on young minds. Mom and Dad munch pop-corn obliviously while Junior screams, runs around or asks questions in a voice loud enough to drown out King Kong. Eventually the kid shuts down and goes to sleep, overwhelmed by the noise and the images (only thing worse is when they stay awake, slurping endlessly for the last molecule of soda in their cup).

For heaven's sake, get a sitter or go individually so Mom sees the movie Sat and Dad Sun. It's not like you're going to miss having the other person next to you for 2 hrs in the dark.

[Codeine]

267. Reason 385 why I hate most parents.

They want a kid, but don't feel obligated to accept the changes that come with having a kid, like staying the hell out of restaurants and theaters when their child starts to act like a savage.

[wtmusic]

281. Don't blame it on parents -- it's the kid's fault

for not alerting the parents and intolerant assholes in the restaurant that he/she's about to go ballistic.

[frankenforpres]

279. i only go to indy theatres now

almost got in a fight last time i was at mall theatre. people cant just shut the fuck up. why are they at fucking movies if they want to talk?

[Downtown Hound]

319. My advice is whenever that happens

Go and tell the management. If I ever got complaints about someone talking, this is what I would always do. I'd go into the theater and sit down, and quietly observe what was happening for a little bit. If there were people talking as I was told there was, I'd walk right up to them, shine my flashlight on them in full view of the entire theater, and tell them that they needed to be quiet or they would be asked to leave. I told them if I got any more complaints about them they would be gone. 9 times out of 10 those people never said another word the entire movie.

I can't stand talkers at movie theaters. A little whipsering here and there is OK but those people that just blab and blab send my blood pressure up. Why would someone pay ten dollars to have a damn conversation when you can have one for free anywhere else? You pay ten dollars to watch the freakin' movie!

[shrike]

286. Why would people take a toddler to an adult, R-rated movie?

I've seen it a lot and it really bothers me, if only because it's really unfair to the kid. It's unfair to expect a two or three-year-old child to sit quietly for two hours, in front a movie they can't understand. I understand mom and dad are hoping they'll fall asleep, but if they don't, they'll get restless. And who can blame them?

[alarimer]

254. Somehow I thought this would be about Olive Garden N/T

[taterguy]

277. See what happens when you ban smoking in restaurants

People get tense uptight and irritable.

The chickens have come home to roost.

[JVS]

321. then someone could have flicked a butt at the kid to shut it up

[EnviroBat]

298. I usually holler "Hey! Take George Bush Outta here!" n/t

[HuffleClaw]

299. UPDATE: "Mother in brawl claims child was threatened" - Toledo Blade

http://tinyurl.com/2wmaj7

"The 24-year-old woman at the center of a Mother's Day brawl at the Golden Corral Restaurant in Toledo said she was threatened with a knife by the family sitting next to her and did what any mother would have done to protect her 1-year-old daughter...

*** and a rational view ***

...Mr. Vernon said. "I turned around and all was doing was buttering her bread."



ok, my two bits. sounds to me like freakmama has realized that SHE is the bad guy in this mess and so decided she was THREATENED, and with a knife! oh, and she played the race card too. i have not one whit of sympathy for her.

[treestar]

302. ITA, my first thought was "up the victim ante" on the part of Poor Mama

I've seen this happen too often not to believe it.

[RubyDuby in GA]

304. Nope. Sorry. I read that article too and when you get to this little nugget:

"The Olivers said a waitress asked the Lewandowskis if they wanted to move to another table, but the family declined and tension continued to build between the two tables, the Olivers said."

The one with the knife was obviously wanting to start trouble.
If you bitch and moan about having to sit next to people with unruly children and are given the opportunity to move and don't, then you are a total ass and should shut the fuck up about it.

[Scout]

305. I doubt there was a table in the joint that did not hear/was not affected

by the screaming child.

Why should they have to move? They weren't doing anything wrong.

I think the one who refused to quiet or remove the problem child, after being asked several times, is the one who wanted to start trouble.

[Virginia Dare]

303. Ridiculous behavior on the part of everyone involved...n/t

[LanternWaste]

307. There's never so good a meal as can't be had elsewhere

What would I have done in the Mom's situation: do my best to shush the child. If that didn't work, leave.

What would I have done in the Thelma's situation: When the crying got to be too much of annoyance, leave. And I've done that often enough (left the establishment due to annoying co-patrons, that is). But it's never toddlers that set me off and tempt me to leave-- it always seems to be the obnoxious, drunken younger adults.

But regardless, in either situation, I'd simply leave. No fuss, no muss, no hurt feelings. And no one would ever has to worry about cops showing up, assaults, the inevitable law suits, or broken furniture because (wait for it...) I left and the problem is now over.

There's never so good a meal as can't be had elsewhere.

[BreweryYardRat]

310. People need to start carrying duct tape.

It would have saved a fight.

[Lasher]

324. What a perfect excuse for a food fight

Too bad they wasted the opportunity throwing furniture instead.

First there was the St Valentine's Day Massacre. Now the Mother's Day Brawl is the stuff of legend.

[Buns_of_Fire]

325. Where is SWAT when you need it?

Tear gas all of 'em, I say. It's the New American Way.

I say this as a parent who had more than one little outside conference between young'uns and the daddy-who's-a-lot-bigger-than-you-are explaining that such behavior will inevitably lead to a loss of Cheesy Poofs in the immediately foreseeable future.