Romney's sons on why they won't enlist

[Beaverhausen]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/10/60minutes/main2787426_page2.shtml
from last night's 60 Minutes:

SNIP

Their five boys support their decision.

"Three of you went to Harvard Business School, one to medical school. All married. Nobody seems to have rebelled, gone off the rails. How come?" Wallace asks.

"Where a lot is given a lot is expected. So we have to live up to that standard," Craig Romney tells Wallace.

While all of them have served their church doing missionary work around the world, their answers vary about putting on a uniform and going to war.

"I feel guilty having not done it," Josh Romney tells Wallace.

"I’ve seen a lot and read a lot that has made me say, 'My goodness, I hope I never have to do that,'" Ben Romney says.

"Not one agreed or thought about serving in the military," Wallace remarks.

"There are other sacrifices to make as well. And I hope to be able to make a sacrifice of that caliber at some point in my life," Matt Romney says.

"Did you ever serve in the armed forces?" Wallace asks Mitt Romney.

"I did not," Romney replies.

Why not?

"I was at college. Then I went off and served my church for two and a half years in a mission," Romney replies.

And because of his high lottery number, he was never drafted to serve in Vietnam, something he says he regrets to this day.

[karlrschneider]

1. Josh "feels guilty"??? Well, IT ISN"T TOO LATE YOU FUCKING CHICKENHAWK

:grr: :puke: :mad:

[Bluebear]

2. So Mitt had to serve the Mormon church on a mission, and not his country?

Hmm.

[CanonRay]

42. And THAT shows exactly where his priorities lie:

1) His Church
2) Making money
3) Giving money to his Church
4) Making more money



79) His country

[JVS]

49. Hell, I'm not even Mormon and I'd do a mission for them before the military

[FreeState]

59. The church gives you the option

The church gives you the option, while it encourages men to go on missions when they turn 19, they also tell the young men it is just as worthy an action to serve in the military or the Peace Corps (in-fact they even dedicate a whole Sacrament Meeting - think communion - to talks from the outgoing military member and his/her family). However missionary service is stressed over serving in the military.

[me b zola]

80. But then again, you're not cheerleading for an ongoing war...

...are you?

[JVS]

81. No way.

[valerief]

54. Great list! nt

[Buzz Clik]

64. Oh, but he wants to serve NOW. "Hail to the chief."

[tanyev]

3. "Where a lot is given a lot is expected. So we have to live up to that standard,"

Sounds like he's saying soldiering is not a worthy occupation for the best and brightest. How's that supporting the troops?

[patrice]

11. Ding! Ding! Ding! - We have the rhetorical winner here!!

Nothing like that good old Noblese Oblige; how would any of us ever decide what to do with ourselves without the Nobility to guide us?

[SteelPenguin]

17. He wasn't responding to the question of service

They were asked why none of them 'got in trouble'. Why all five were upstanding members of the community with jobs and wives etc. That's when he responded that way. It had nothing to do with disparaging service in the armed forces.

[Beaverhausen]

23. oops

[patrice]

38. Thank you for that correction.

I stand ammended.

[MadBadger]

4. Leave the damn kids alone.

[Beaverhausen]

7. But...but little Joshie feels guilty about not having served

someone needs to tell the little chickenshit that he is still of enlistment age.

Bunch of pussies- all of them.

[Buzz Clik]

8. In this case, I think not.

If these little shits allow themselves to be interviewed on national tv in support of daddy's quest for Prez, they're part of the game.

If they said, "No comment", then all bets are off.

[Richard Steele]

9. Apple. Tree. Measuring distance. Valuable data obtained thereby. nm

[TwilightGardener]

12. Why? Love and support war, encourage your kids to join--if these

GOPers really believe our soldiers are dying for our country and a worthwhile cause, why shouldn't their kids be encouraged to do their noble part, and pull a Pat Tillman?

[Bluebear]

19. Kids?!

[MadBadger]

24. They are his children, aren't they?

So that is why I said Kids. No matter how old I am, I'll still be my parent's kid.

[TwilightGardener]

31. Adult kids = fair game. Wives = fair game.

[MadBadger]

34. Wives Yes, Adult Kids, no

The First lady will be in the White house. THat is the difference for me.

[TwilightGardener]

44. I judge everybody on everything. That's how I get a handle on their

character. How their kids turned out is fair game--tells me what values they were raised with.

[MadBadger]

So do you think Ron Reagan Jr. Represents the values that his father taught him?

[Beaverhausen]

46. Did you see the interview? Those "kids" are carbon copies of Mitt

obviously they are very close, and he raised them with the values they have. It seems the Church (and the almighty dollar) is far more important to them than is the country.

[TwilightGardener]

48. I'm not too familiar with him, to be honest--seen him on the dog shows, LOL!

But when you run for prez, people will judge you on every aspect of your life--it's the biggest job interview in the world. Nothing that is revealing of character and values, to me, is off limits. (OK, I don't want to peek into the bedroom with these candidates--that's off limits!)

[MadBadger]

52. He is the son of Ronald Reagan. Atheist and critic of the Bush Administration

But yet the other son is a Republican douchebag.

[Buzz Clik]

65. I agree totally as long as they turn away from the live microphones.

When they volunteer to become part of the political process, the gloves come off.

[fooj]

77. His FIVE sons are CAMPAIGNING to get him into the WH.

Kids? Maybe that's part of the problem.
Romney's five sons range in age from 24 to 35.

Last I checked, these young men are ADULTS with minds of their own. When their dad is out peddling an OCCUPATION that is illegal and immoral I would think that they would at the VERY LEAST have a point-of-view. Guess that's too much to ask, eh?

[patrice]

20. People who claim the right (actual or potential) to lead must be evaluated.

Personal ridicule is NOT the objective. Their assumptions about themselves and others affect us.

[MadBadger]

21. Romney should be evaluated, not his children

[TwilightGardener]

26. Let's see, did he raise them with his own chickenhawk values? Guess so!

[Bluebear]

28. So what kind of parent you are has nothing to do with evaluating the man?

[MadBadger]

32. No, it does.

But what your children do is not always an evaluation of how good of a parent you are.

My parent's best friends are excellent parents. But one of their children has been in and out of jail for the past 7 years. TO me, that doesnt make them a bad parent.

[Bluebear]

36. Well, Romney supports this bloodbath but not one of his sons has seen fit to serve.

It says a lot to me, especially reading their lame excuses.

[Buzz Clik]

66. Hells bells! Even the royal family does their time in the military.

When did the chilidren of American politicians become more privileged than the children of British royalty?

Total horseshit.

[jerryme1]

40. One must pay to play.

[Forkboy]

70. Nah

[Bucky]

78. 99% of the time I agree: leave families out of it. But the Romneys are part of a bigger problem.

The problem is that we have a class of Americans who benefit from war who will not serve, who will not encourage their children to serve, who cynically profiteer thru war time contracts but have the deepest, if unspoken, disdain for the families who do send their kids off to serve the country. Tehre are some who serve their country and others who help themselves to a second serving off the blood and sweat of those who serve.

It's just wrong and Romney's kids are a prime example of this.

[Buzz Clik]

5. Pardon me, folks. But these guys are sniveling douchebags.

"And Tagg said, 'Woof woof!'"

[Richard Steele]

13. Pardon granted because your analysis is correct. nm

[BOSSHOG]

6. They won't enlist because they are young republicans

Its okay for someone else to die for their country but not them.

MY HATE IS RATIONAL. Please romney boys read this post, because you fucking bastards who enjoy your constitutional liberties make me want to puke.

[blm]

10. They served their country by attacking veterans who DID take bullets for them.

.

[TwilightGardener]

16. LOL! I'm sure Romney will pay the big bucks to have McCain (or Hagel, if he runs)

swiftboated.

[SteelPenguin]

14. I don't feel this is fair

I don't think you need to serve in the military in order to be a good and decent American. Nor do I think you need to serve in order to comment on the war, in any way.

If they had sat there and cut down on those serving, or disparaged someone's service I'd be all over them. They chose not to serve. The End. As for Romney, whose positions and flip flopping I LOATHE, I hold nothing against him either for not serving.

The last real President of the United States never served a day in the military and we seem to be awfully fond of him.

[Beaverhausen]

18. read their answers again

one 'feels guilty' that he didn't serve. Another wants to make a sacrifice for his country.

they are all young enough to enlist. They are assholes!

[SteelPenguin]

30. I watched the interview

I don't need to reread it.

I never served. I feel guilty that I never served. I'm of enlistment age. Does this make me an asshole anytime I support the use of military force? My life led me in a direction where I have responsibilities, as does his. If I were to go volunteer now, it would jeapordize my family, our mortgage, families future. Maybe he doesn't have the fear of sleeping in the gutter because of the money his family has, but he's probably 'making it on his own' and just can't afford to get up and go now.

I just don't buy that line of reasoning that you must have served in order to support a military action.

[TwilightGardener]

37. It's not that you have to have served to support military action. But Mittster,

like all chickenhawks, advocates CONTINUING the occupation long after most reasonable folks realize it's a pointless disaster. He advocates wasting lives for nothing--because those lives mean little to him, as with all the other chickenhawks. They're just means to the PNAC end. Why throw away your own blood when the oil will flow with someone else's kid's blood?

[SteelPenguin]

58. That's a judgement though

There's always someone who doesn't support military action. When does my support for a military action make me an asshole? When more than 50% of the population is against it? EVen if I think it's the right move? Am I not an asshole if the majority of the population is behind it, but then suddenly I am when Rasmussen releases a new poll?

That sort of neuter's my ability to have any opinion about military use. Not having served doesn't make you incapable of thought. Just because some people come to the wrong conclusions doesn't mean we can rip on them all of a sudden because they didnt' serve. That's the sort of thing they pulled on Clinton with Somalia.

It's just dirty and wrong to attack that way imho.

[immoderate]

67. They support the war but don't serve.

That's the condition you haven't discussed.

--IMM

[Beaverhausen]

41. If your father is running for the position of Commander in Chief, it would matter

Any of those "kids" would be just fine financially if he spent a year or two in the military.

Apparantly they thought spending a few years trying to convert people to Mormanism was important, but not wearing the uniform of the country.

[SteelPenguin]

55. So would mine probably

My family has money as well. My parents wouldn't let our mortgate lapse, but I'm an adult and don't want my parents to be paying my mortgage because I decide to serve in the military.

I just don't see how what children do is any issue. Mitt says enough assoholic stuff on his own for us to talk about. Whether or not he served is a valid question. Every question is a valid question. Questions about his kids motives and integrity just aren't imho.

[patrice]

51. I'm also not sure it's just about whether you can support military action

if you haven't served too, but more - you can't support military action unless you've really sacrificed for the "mission" too.

Everyone knows not everyone who thinks war is the right thing can go fight, but putting the whole thing "on the cuff" and wasting oil, while stirring up anti-Islamic fervor - or even just letting the whole war-thing just wander on and on and on - things like that are especially WRONG when you're "Pro-War".

[NavyDavy]

62. well no, but your not running a pro iraq war presidential

campaign(he has 3 adult eligible boys any one of them can go) so b 4 you can ask someone else to put their kids in harms way the president should be willing to send his......

[karlrschneider]

68. It would only make you an asshole if you support the CURRENT military action.

Feel free to expand on the details of your support.

[patrice]

25. Not ALL of us. nm

[TwilightGardener]

27. Count me out of that fondness.

[jerryme1]

47. But if one truly believes the USA and its citizens' lives are mortally threatened

by ongoings in "Iraq," how can he justify/rationalize not serving in the Armed forces? If one is not willing to serve in the armed forces at this height of the global war on terror, I question whether they genuinely believe in the cause.

[TwilightGardener]

50. Exactly--that's because they know what the war is REALLY for, and it

ain't for America's security.

[tabasco]

56. I hear this from chicken shit chicken hawks all the time.

Lots of people love to watch war on teevee and suppoort America "kicking ass." It's the only source of pride in their miserable lives. But ask the cowards to sign up and they snivel "I don't have to have military service to be a good American."

:puke: :puke:

If you support a war and you are physically able, you SHOULD sign up. That's what happened in WWII.

Western Pennsylvania has a lot of military vets.

www.goarmy.com

[youngdem]

15. Can you blame them?

Harvard Business School and a life of wealth and privilege OR $18,000 a year to get shot at in the desert for no good fucking reason...Hmmmm....Honestly, what would you do?

These guys didn't pick their parents. Lord knows the decisions we would make if we all could have chosen our parents at one time or another.

Yeah, they're conservative....so what? It's a free country. These guys couldn't criticize their father's politics even if they wanted to...It would be bad form to stab your father in the back when he is running for president, especially when he just got done putting your ass through Harvard Business School.

I didn't approve of the press fucking with Reagan's kids, Carter's kids, or the Clinton's and I fail to find the relevance of whether these guys didn't serve in this war. They can't choose their parents, number one. And number two, WHY should they go to war? It's a clusterfuck. I would consider it a sign of idiocy if you said today that you would go. They aren't in the Senate. They didn't vote for it. They are just loyal to their chameleon father. I am sure they were ACLU members when he was governor and I am sure they are all NRA members now. So what?

They haven't killed anyone, went to high school, college, grad school and did a mission. Maybe not what everyone envisions, but still admirable for a young man.

I don't understand criticizing the kids...I thought we were above that...Plus, there is little basis for it.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Walk the walk--send other boys to fight and die for a noble cause,

and send your own, too--it's worth it, right? Worth it to have those officers walking up to your front door with bad news? The fact that so many candidates, Dem or Repub, haven't served and don't encourage their kids to serve is a disgrace, IMO.

[patrice]

33. I'm not sure that it's about whether they should or shouldn't serve,

for me at least, it's more about what does their reasoning reveal about who they are.

I'll defend ANYONE'S right NOT to serve, for whatever reason, BUT that doesn't mean that your reasoning is ir-relevant to who and what you are.

[gatorboy]

29. At least Ben Romney gave an honest response to the question.

[troubleinwinter]

35. There are "too many poor applicants filling up the spots in the military for them to join, anyway"

says Mitt Romney. "I am grooming my sons for control and leadership..."

[TwilightGardener]

39. OMG, that's just sick, if he fucking said that. There's ALWAYS room,

officer or enlisted. Bastard.

[troubleinwinter]

43. He fucking said that.

[TwilightGardener]

45. ASSHOLE!

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

60. Link?

[The Backlash Cometh]

53. They did mission work with their church? Is that the new deferment

strategy to get out of military service? How convenient. I understand its also works if you're a politician with a son who sodomized young children at camp. Stops the investigation dead in its tracks if you can say your son is going to go out of the country to proselytize to foreign children.

[FreeState]

61. Not entieryly true of Mitt and his family to say that

Not entieryly true of Mitt and his family to say that - the church says serving in the Military is just as admirable as serving a mission for the church - same with going into the Peace Corps. WHile the church stresses the mission, for Mitts kids to use their missions as excuses is despicable and half truth (I am LDS BTW).

[Raine]

73. It's not voluntary

I believe that Mormons are required to do missionary work.

[graywarrior]

57. Mittens Kittens.

Mew.

[WI_DEM]

63. Wouldn't it be nice if somebody like Clark went up against chicken hawk Romney?

[Initech]

69. So why don't they go to Iraq then? They raised the age limit!

[Morgana LaFey]

71. I begin to understand why Republicans are so big on supporting

our troops -- it helps make up for them and their never BEING our troops. Or at least serves as a nice distraction from that annoying fact.

[Catherine Vincent]

75. That's a good point.

Support the troops heavily and maybe no one will notice that none of my offspring have signed up!

[ComerPerro]

72. more pullshit from the elites. "I made other sacrifices". Yeah right.

And Romney is now saying he regrets that he was never drafted? WTF?

[SammyWinstonJack]

74. From what I can gather, most young repugs think that they can support the war by ...

lol... staying home and "paying taxes". :rofl: That is why they won't enlist! They can do more here by staying and paying taxes! Let us not forget that the rich under bu$h has enjoyed at least six years of tax cuts. :yoiks:

[Raine]

76. WHY does Mitt regret not being drafted

to Viet Nam??? :wtf: My brother had a high number and to this day is thankful he wasn't drafted! If Mitt regrets not being drafted why didn't he volunteer(???) talk sure is cheap!

[NNN0LHI]

83. I would like to know how "low" his number was when he got his college deferment n/t

[smalll]

79. Not every young person needs to join the military.

A lot of them are doing good work as civilians. Those learning about poverty, for example? They truly believe they can better serve their country at a hedge fund!

[PRETZEL]

82. Mitt Romney can kiss my ass as far as I'm concerned.......

"I was at college. Then I went off and served my church for two and a half years in a mission," Romney replies.

And because of his high lottery number, he was never drafted to serve in Vietnam, something he says he regrets to this day."

He doesn't regret a fucking thing. If he wanted to go so goddamn badly he could have enlisted. He hasn't had to suffer the pain and agony that my aunt has had to endure. She's had to bury 2 of her 3 sons as a result of that fucking war. My oldest cousin, Louis E. Brizzoli, was killed 40 years ago tomorrow. He was only 20 years old. She just buried her middle son last Thursday. Charles R. Brizzoli wasn't as lucky as Mitt Romney. He got a low draft number and instead of risking the same fate as his older brother decided to consciently object to entering the military INVOLUNTARILY. He stayed alive, but that's about it. By the time he was able to return home he was nothing like the person I remember. He didn't fight, but he did suffer.

So please Mr. Romney, don't go around telling people how you regretted not going to Viet Nam. That's a pure crok of shit and you know it. You didn't go because you weren't made to go pure and simple.

Rich Swoger

[Ganja Ninja]

84. How does that happen?

You got 5 healthy sons and not one of them would ever seriously consider serving in the military?
Wealthy elitist white bread chicken hawk Republican's not only don't support the troops they don't support the country. Military service is for people that can't afford college. I swear we need to do away with the GI bill and just guaranty every person in America a college education if they want it. Then have a mandatory 2 year service program for everyone.

[krkaufman]

85. Their positions aren't an issue, unless they're supporting their Dad's campaign...

... a campaign calling for continued occupation of Iraq and in-line w/ the Republican bellicosity towards Iran.