Brazil's native groups offended by Pope's "arrogant and disrespectful" remarks

[Bluebear]

Pope Benedict XVI's five-day trip to Brazil seems unlikely to stem a two-decade slide in Roman Catholic membership as different groups, including indigenous activists, criticized his visit. "Many peoples adopted Christianity, but it was imposed by force," said Marcio Meira, president of the National Foundation of the Indigenous, a Brazilian government organisation.

"The pope was very arrogant," said Gesinaldo Satere Mawe, director of an umbrella group of Amazonian native groups.

Benedict's statement during his first trip to Latin America as pope that "Christianity was not imposed by a foreign culture" drew a sharp reaction from the native leaders. "Christ was the Savior (America's natives) silently yearned for," the pope said. Benedict also called the resurgence of pre-Columbian religions "a step backward," offending native peoples as far away as Mexico.

"His statements are ridiculous," said Roberto Olivares, president of Ojo de Agua, a group that promotes indigenous values in Oaxaca, Mexico. "The Catholic religion was imposed despite our beliefs and our religion," said Mauricio Arias, a native people's leader in Bolivia.

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/pope-breeds-controversy-in-brazil-tour/20070414-cnj.html

[Solly Mack]

1. Oh my

What an idiot

[BuyingThyme]

2. Good.

[Sapere aude]

3. You all should see the move "The Mission" The pope's people enslaved the new Christians.

[Colobo]

4. So, Dear Benedict

This means that not only the Indians were "secretly longing" for Europeans to violently conquer, "civilize" them and "save" them... that also means African slaves were waiting for Europeans to exploit them, abuse them and enslave them in order to be save by the white man's religion...

Pope Benedict can go fuck a horny dingo.

[Forkboy]

5. Well that's a Pope for ya!

Can't take them anywhere.

[Rex]

6. Benny, the 'Bush' of Popes.

Really, why would anyone on this planet expect anything from Benny but intolerance and lies? Catholics should be sick of this man's behavior.

[Colobo]

8. The good thing about Benedict is that he is not PC

He says what those in charge of that religion have always believed and promoted. How come the Catholic Church has constantly being behind social, political and economic oppression of blacks, Indians and poor people in general in Latin America?

[Rex]

12. They might as well have told him to say unicorns exist and

Elvis has returned! More believable than this current try at rewriting history IMO.

[ulysses]

31. Bendict is a fool, but let me introduce you to Oscar Romero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Romero

[Hekate]

16. Never forget there's a vast difference between the Pope's IQ and Bush's

Pope Benedict is a rigid, narrow man, but he is highly educated (in his narrow area) and highly intelligent. He's in a whole different category from Bush, who thought that paying attention in class was for folks who weren't going to inherit a pile of money.

Hekate

[Rex]

19. Both would usher in the end of the world with glee.

Evil and stupid have a lot in common.

[Selatius]

7. It was good that millions of Native Americans died at the hands of invading European powers

They died by the Grace of God!

:sarcasm:

[malaise]

14. Isn't that the truth

That a fugging arrogant moron. Imperialism will not work again in Latin America pope fascist. Get the fuck out and head home.

[lumpy]

9. The pope should continue on his own spiritual path

to enlightenment instead of rolling boulders onto the path of others.He is about as spiritual as Dubya and appears to be just as ignorant.

[karlrschneider]

10. Fuck that old Nazi shitbag.

:puke:

[Blue_Tires]

11. the RC church's race to the bottom continues

[malaise]

13. I don't know why this pope

believes this is the 15th century and he and his merry band are meeting some unsophisticated natives. The arrogance of the catholic church defies logic.

Benedict also called the resurgence of pre-Columbian religions "a step backward," offending native peoples as far away as Mexico.

All religion is a step backwards but who is hte pope to tell people exploited by catholicism not to revert to their own cultural preferences.

I hate these people.

[Rex]

17. What do you expect from a religion that creates and then gets rid of

extra-dimensional planes of existence, when it is convenient to do so. Look, I just invented Heall! Poof! Nope, on second thought it is gone! Poof poof! Back again! Nothing up this sleeve!

[malaise]

24. I hate all religions

never thought Hitchens and I would have something in common.

[SpiralHawk]

15. Please explain the "requerimiento," Pope Ratzinger

And how the "requerimiento" shoved the Roman impulse down the throats of the native peoples of North, Central and South America to enslave them and appropriate their land and wealth.

http://www.8thfire.net/Day_169.html

"Coronado’s aide then read to the people a requerimiento -- a formal declaration of sovereignty, and a set of demands. The requerimiento asserted that the Popes -- who claimed to be successors of the man god Jesus Christ through his apostle Peter -- held god's authority for rulership over the entire Earth. The declaration also said that the Pope had the right to share his supreme rulership with allied kings and their armies, and that to all of this the native people must swear immediate allegiance.

"The formal demands were unitelligible to the natives because they were read in Latin. In essence, the requerimiento said: If you do not surrender completely now and bow down and worship our god, we will subject you to the yoke and obedience of the church and the king. We will take your wives and children, and we will make them slaves…We will take your property…We declare that the deaths and injuries that occur as a result of this would be your fault, not ours…"

..snip...

[Madspirit]

18. k&r and I HATE The Poop...n/t

[monmouth]

20. Time to look at tax exempt status, and I say that as a Roman Catholic.

I become infuriated when the fundies and other RW religious zealots rant on, the Pope is no different. I think he thinks he is a king of sorts when actually he's coming off as a religious dictator....Ugh..

[liberalEd]

21. The Roman Catholic Church - official religion of the dark ages

What else can we expect from its leader?

[spoony]

29. The dark ages

In Britain anyway, refers to the period after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, when Germanic tribes wiped out much of the learning accomplished under their early Christendom. As a result there are no written records of the time. In other words, they were the times the church was NOT in control of the region.

[martymar64]

32. Henry the Eighth had the right idea about what to do about the church

The dissolution of the churches and abbies provided a nice influx of treasure and land for the state.

[spoony]

34. By that point they had outlived their purpose

of being community libraries and schools. It was an idea he got from Luther, but instituted it for a different reason.

[Hekate]

22. The old Inquisitor doesn't have the warm fuzzies of Popes John & John Paul, does he?

But the College of Cardinals knew that going into the vote -- Ratzinger was head of what used to be known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition, an enforcer of the faith.

What the previous two popes tried to achieve by charm and humanity, he will try to achieve by sternly laying down the law. Too bad for him (and lucky for the rest of us) that the world has moved on.

Hekate


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4445279.stm
As head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - once known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition - from 1981 until his election, the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had developed a reputation as a tough theologian. He campaigned against liberation theology, which had gained ground among priests in Latin America and elsewhere as a means
of involving the Church in social activism and human rights issues.
<snip>
Seventeen months into his Papacy, his quotation of a 14th century
Byzantine emperor - who said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things - provoked anger in the Muslim world. The Vatican denied that he had intended to offend Muslims.

[pretzel4gore]

23. in 'deliver us from evil'

a docu about child molesting priests who used the church to .....anyway, ratzinger was the guy who stood against the victims efforts to at least have their situations recognised, but NOOOOO!
like they say, power corrupts etc....these goddam popes have always preferred the fascist bullyboy over the little people whom Jesus represented(?)
(and if the fascasti could steal the US presidency, from some of the most ruthless operators on earth ie the american people, then putting a bullyboy like ratzinger into the pope's chair woulda been easy, and a good idea (for junyer)....the bush pope is right!

[Peregrine Took]

25. He stands for age old beliefs and doesn't think religions should shift the

tenets they believe in because they are no longer fashionable. Its a completely different mindset from people in the non-spiritual world. What is the Dalai Lama's position on abortion? Why isn't he mocked for his stance which I assume would be "anti" as he believes in hurting no sentient being.

[Bluebear]

26. 'What is the Dalai Lama's position on abortion?'

Yes, that's relevant to this discussion. :eyes:

[iverglas]

35. equal opportunity mocking

and bashing. The Dalai Lama WAS a piece of shit when he was in power, and I don't really care what he is now, but I'm pleased to point out what a piece of shit he was when he was in a position to have some actual effect, if the occasion for comment arises. Ratzinger was just a boy Nazi in Naziland; the lama person had a real naziland all to himself, complete with slavery, torture, sexual slavery of women, you name it, it was done by his "government" under his rule. And by the way, he opposes both abortion and homosexual activity. But hey, just for his followers, y'know. Some of whom, and other admirers, seem quite able to ignore those bits when they laud him. And I've pointed all this out more than once at DU.

But none of that really has much to do with what Ratzinger had to say to indigenous peoples in the Americas this week, the subject of this thread. I'll be happy with spitting on Ratzinger this time, since he's just managed to do something new and spitworthy, and if you want to spit on the other one should an occasion arise in future, or just because it seems like a good idea at the time, give me a call.

[donco6]

27. "They know they wanted it . . . "

Just . . . ugh. We wouldn't accept that reasoning from a rapist.

[David Zephyr]

28. Kick.

Everyone needs to read this story.

[Canuckistanian]

30. He's no John Paul II

John Paul II sanctified the first Indian saints of Latin America: St Juan Diego (beautification in 1990, canonisation in 2002 in Guadalupe, Mexico) and St Theresa of Jesus of Los Andes, Carmelite sister (beautification in 1987 in Santiago de Chile, canonisation in 1993).

Now, Papa Ratzi marginalizes them.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. Beautification is what you do in a beauty shop.

I believe the word is "beatification".

That's pronounced bee-at.