Somebody 'splain to me, please: How the HELL did bushyboy get to be a pilot?

[Redstone]

Last I heard, flying a hot jet like the F-106 took enough smarts to know your ass from your elbow, the ability to pay attention and follow orders, the ability to listen to someone and learn from them, and a reasonable dose of sobriety.

Somehow, even though I now that he did fly those airplanes, I just CANNOT picture him doing so.

Any aviation DUers want to enlighten me?

Redstone

[MadMaddie]

1. Redstone....I am not a pilot but I gotta feeling that Daddy had

something to do with it....

[Rex]

2. Do we know if he actually flew them?

Records of his flight hours? Now I'm curious.

[Bakunin]

4. Hey,

Reagan could ride a horse and put his pants on, so anything is possible.

[Rex]

10. Well George Bush is supposedly the POTUS so yes

anything is possible. I just have a hard time believing ANYONE trusted him with a fighter jet. What if he was coked out at the time? Never knew I guess.

[rasputin1952]

46. LOL...Welcome to DU Bakunin...

:D...:hi:

[Island Blue]

49. True, but Junior can't ride a horse

mainly because he's scared of them and thinks you're supposed to milk them. The jury is still out on weather or not he puts his own pants. Welcome to DU!

[Redstone]

51. At the same time? That's actually a pretty good trick, right there.

Redstone

[Ghost in the Machine]

55. Where do I send the bill for a new monitor & keyboard?

:spray:

[Oeditpus Rex]

72. Don't be too sure about the second thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0IzA9zgAS4

Note that the clip has been edited. I saw the original on the old "Night Flight," and each time he blows it, Reagan says "shit" or "goddammit."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. He never really flew them.

He "flew" a trainer they could control from the ground via remote control, then they made him take a drug test and he deserted, and then they didn't complain about it because they knew he'd just crash the thing into a populated city. Ironic, when you think about it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. There was no such thing as a ground-controlled fighter jet in those days.

By all accounts, somehow he did learn to fly it. I suspect that in those days he hadn't quite fried his brain (though he was apparently working on it), so managed to get through his training. The important point is that once he was qualified as a pilot, he stopped showing up, didn't report for a flight physical (maybe because he didn't want to take a drug test), was removed from flying status, and never completed his service. Here's some detailed info on his career as a pilot: http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

[Redstone]

12. Uh, "a trainer they could control from the ground?" You mean like a target drone? I doubt it.

I was in the electronics business for a long time, and specialized in subsystems for avionics and military weapons and other systems (like the ALQ-99 jamming pod) and I doubt that is true. Wasn't back then, and isn't now. If it were, why would trainer aircraft ALL have two seats?

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. don't know the details.

But there was a thread on DU several months back with a poster in the know detailing that Bush's plane was indeed a drone designed to shoot down bombers via some sort of computer/remote. The basic premise was- DEW warning detects soviet bombers, interceptors get launched fly within range of bombers, interceptors launch air-to-air missles, pilot then lands plane, assuming there's a landing strip left on north america.

[Solo_in_MD]

33. Redstone is quite correct. the thread was bogus

[wuushew]

34. maybe this?

The F-106 was equipped with the Hughes MA-1 integrated fire-control system, which could be linked to the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment network for ground control interception missions (allowing the aircraft to be steered by ground controllers). It was armed with four Hughes AIM-4 Falcon air-to-air missiles in its internal weapons bay along with a single GAR-11/AIM-26A Falcon nuclear-tipped, semi-active, radar homing missile, or an 1.5 kiloton MB-2/AIR-2 Genie air-to-air nuclear rocket intended to be fired into enemy bomber formations.<7> The MA-1 fire-control system proved extremely troublesome, and was eventually upgraded more than 60 times in service.<8>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-106_Delta_Dart

[Redstone]

53. Yeah, the SAGE system never worked well. But it did NOT take off or land the

airplane; it just vectored it (supposedly) to the optimum launch point for the missiles.

They had a term back then: "Suicide by Genie." The fighter pilot had FIVE SECONDS after he launched the Genie before it went off. In that time he was supposed to maneuver his plane so its belly was toward the blast, therefore theoretically shielding him from the radiation.

No word from the Air Force on how he was supposed to land the airplane after the EMP killed all his avionics.

Redstone

[Solo_in_MD]

57. That system was F-106 only, and I *think* he only flew F-102s

In a plane that old, its not clear how much avionics there were to kill with EMP. If the engines stayed lit, in theory and in practice a pilot could needle/ball/airspeed his way home.

[Redstone]

60. That close, the EMP would have killed even tube avionics. And the pilot would have been dead in

a week from the radiation, belly-to-the-blast or not.

Another astonishingly bad idea from our Wonderful Military.

Redstone

[rasputin1952]

47. ROFMAO: "You mean like a target drone?" Damn.....I'm

still spewing Pepsi out my nose!!!!

Holy Shit Redstone...that is a classic!...:rofl:

[jody]

5. I remember a movie about a chimp being taught to fly so it could be used to study radiation effects

on pilots.

Perhaps Dubya was one of those test subjects.

[Elwood P Dowd]

6. He has not piloted an airplane since leaving the TANG.

There was one story about him attempting to fly a little prop, and the fool almost crashed the thing.

He did actually fly an F-102 for a time in the TANG, but had so many problems he eventually went back to a trainer.

[lonestarnot]

9. If he ever does, will someone please fucking warn me.

I'd like to take cover in the fucking basement.

[Virginia Dare]

13. Ditto if Pickles gets behind the wheel of a car again...n/t

[lonestarnot]

76. Ewww what a thought. The kid killer back behind a wheel.

[Initech]

8. Hint: That wasn't really him flying the plane!

You know to that fancy, billion dollar photo op known as "Mission Accomplished"? Nope, he had two co-pilots at the controls and they allowed him to be a big boy and fly for a few minutes to make him look like he was the guy in charge.

[Monkeyman]

11. Redstone he did fly till he got high and drug testing started

[Rex]

16. So he could fly, but started doing drugs and fled.

I guess it is possible he had a few brain-cells back in the day. Coke and booze probably finished them off.

[Redstone]

17. I understand that; I'm just asking HOW, because he's so fucking dumb and scatterbrained.

Redstone

[Monkeyman]

28. That One you got me on I sure in the hell wouldn't want him protecting my six

[liberal renegade]

14. He scored a 25 out of a possible 100 on his entrance exam.

smart fella or fart smella, you decide....

[ComerPerro]

18. how did he get into the Air Guard at all, in the first place?

[Rex]

21. Poppy.

Didn't want Junior going off and actually getting shot in Vietnam. Needed him in the future to steal billions from the public.

[ComerPerro]

23. well, that's what I'm saying.

[enki23]

22. ben barnes, former lt. gov of texas, pulled strings to get him in

according to ben barnes, former lt. gov. of texas

[TexasProgresive]

64. It had to be influence by PoopyBush

I was on an 18 month waiting list to get in that unit at the same time but the BabyBush was a shoo in. My wait was the full 18 months because some of those ahead of me dropped out because they got drafted or got a deferrment.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. He got a disqualifying low score on his pilot test but

strings were pulled so his pansy ass could stay out of combat

[pretzel4gore]

20. flying is fairly easy....

i learned how to fly small '911 jet trainers' (cessna 150/185's lol) and was surprised to find it really is learning how to ride a bicycle, only 'off the cliff' (nyuk nyuk)...i found flying boring as there seems to be nothing going on...i'm sure afterburners-on jets alot different, but....anyway, junyer probably a pretty good flyer, as he had a photo memory (see 'fortunate son') and most flying is just proceedures, done again and again until they become habit....children as young as seven have soloed- there was a case of a 12 year old kid(?) who stole an airplane, having never flown before, yet he went somewhere and landed it etc and nearly got away!
as far as the 'right stuff' idee...junyer musta had a pass

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Actually, it's not all that easy to fly a jet.

(Nor is it boring). They are fast and heavy and there are a lot of complex systems that can go horribly wrong if they aren't understood and managed properly. But it's entirely possible that Bush managed to learn to fly the F-102 well enough to be minimally qualified as a TANG pilot, not necessarily very good at it. His apparent stupidity in his actions as President are the result of a lack of substantive curiosity and his arrogant stubbornness. The skills you need to be a pilot of a fast, heavy jet (which isn't at all like flying a light aircraft) are very different, and he very likely had those skills then (though he's probably deteriorated too much by this time).

That said, most pilots -- the good ones, anyway -- are very smart people.

[karlrschneider]

42. Actually it is VERY easy. Until something goes wrong.

You got that part right. Flying any plane is best characterized (as done, IIRC Ernest Gann) as hours of boredom punctuated by a few moments of terror.
:-)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

44. Well, yes. I include as part of being a *qualified* pilot the ability to handle

abnormal and emergency procedures without something terrible happening. Basic flying is mostly pretty easy as long as nothing unexpected happens or something breaks. So I'm guessing Bush got as far as basic proficiency, which most people with average eye-hand coordination could do. As a CFI I had also had a few real dumbass students who nevertheless finally got it (though they weren't flying jets).

[karlrschneider]

48. I let my CFI ticket go dormant years ago. I wasn't a good instructor,

I lack the patience to really do it right. But the ones who stuck with me did learn well. I made them do spins, wingovers, and very 'unusual attitudes' under the hood without gyros. Are you still instructing?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. My ticket is current but I'm not doing it any more.

I work in an airline training department instead. I think we will start running out of pilots one of these days -- for example, the flight school I used to work for, which had been operating for 40 years, went bankrupt last month because hardly anybody can afford to take flying lessons any more, at $150/hour for primary training. Who wants to spend $100,000 to become qualified to get a regional airline job that pays $18K a year? It's a strange business.

[karlrschneider]

56. In some ways we've already run out of them.

Sadly, and I'm even a part of it now when I fly a glass plane, we've become button-pushers in an airborne video game.
I never did, or wanted to, fly for an airline...every one of my 7500 hours is in general aviation. (Well, technically I guess I have a few hours as co-pilot in some 135 flights...)

And you're right, it is a crazy business. I learned to fly in a rented Cessna 140 for $6.00 an hour, WET. Not that it was all that cheap in 1963 but the current rates are way out of proportion to inflation. I've been trying for 6 months to buy the C310 I flew back in the 70s from the guy who ended up with it but I'm about to drop it with the price of fuel nowadays.
:eyes:

That's awful about the flight school. I'd be interested to know which one if you'd care to let me know (by DUmail or email at [e-mail])...but if you'd rather not that's okay. Just curiousity.

[Kingshakabobo]

27. That's true.

I received my private license at 18 years old. My dad was flabbergasted that I could rent an airplane at 18 but not a car as the car rental agency required you to be 25.

Learning to fly and flying under ideal conditions is fairly easy. Doing it under adverse conditions, handling emergencies and flying in a consistently safe manner is a whole other story.

From what I've read, chimpy knew he was over his head and quit while he was ahead.

As the old saying goes: "There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots".....too bad chimpy and his texas swagger didn't stick with it just a little while longer....sigh.

[Marrah_G]

30. Flying a navy jet is not easy

On top of just flying you have to be able to fight and manuever, while at the same time making life and death decisions (the correct decisions) He also would have had to have been an officer, not sure how that happened since he never did much of anything. Or maybe things were just very different back then, if so, just ignore my post :)

[Solo_in_MD]

43. It was a 1950s era USAF jet, and not a sophisticated one by today's standards

[Marrah_G]

54. Ah thanks, that makes more sense.

[Ilsa]

74. And then there's the carrier landings if you are a navy pilot.

The pilots I knew were all intelligent people. This was during a time when getting in was difficult. But I did date an instructor who also informed me he could teach a monkey to fly (a prop).

If only Bush had been a Chimp in Space.

[Marrah_G]

24. I cannot imagine him getting through flight school

It is tough for even the brightest of people.

[Solo_in_MD]

36. Depends where their apptitude lies

I saw some real idiots make it and smart guys not pass. Depends where their smarts were best I could tell.

[Wiley50]

25. Where's Karl?

He hasn't checked in yet?

[karlrschneider]

29. I'm here! Just got back from some errands!

will reply to the OP
:D

[Wiley50]

38. Great! You i'd trust to fly me

as long as we had a co-pilot

That old ticker could stop any time

Know what I mean, Vern/

[karlrschneider]

45. No chance. I keep a 9 volt battery under my tongue!

:rofl:

[Octafish]

67. Dr. Lizardo, is that you?

John Bigbooty told me to say that.

[karlrschneider]

73. Wow! The resemblance is...

tenuous. :D

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Consider what 3 relatively untrained "pilots" did with airliners on 9/11.

I was a "plane captain" (glorified gas station attendant) in the Marine Crotch. I strapped in and guided a lot of very drunk pilots in F6A (very touchy) fighters onto the taxi-way that, even sober, were as dumb as a bag of turnips. They used to try (and sometimes succeed) to bribe us into "downing" their planes because they knew they were too drunk to fly.

[Monk06]

32. In the Canadian Airforce the CF 106 was called 'the Widow Maker' Any mistake was a death sentence

I doubt very much that the Chimpster ever
flew solo in that aircraft.

[Solo_in_MD]

35. I believe the F-104 had that title, not the F-102 or F-106

[Monk06]

37. Yes it was the 104. I am really having a fact challenged day today n/t

[Solo_in_MD]

40. No worries, the century series fighters were all a little wierd. It was appropriate that

they resurected the names for the F-117

[Monk06]

59. Ah yes the 117, 'Wobbly Goblin' The first aircraft where the plane flies the pilot.

[Solo_in_MD]

61. Have you heard about how it was orignally planned as a multi-species crew?

A dog and a man.

The man was there to do takeoffs, landings, launch weapons, and feed the dog. The dog was there to bite the man if he tried to do anything else

[Monk06]

68. I heard that joke. Very funny. Thing is with a milk bone graphic interface

a dog could fly that plane.

Well maybe a terrier or a border
collie. Labs can't be trusted.
They suffer from attention deficit
disorder.

[karlrschneider]

39. Strictly speaking, he flew the 102, kind of an uncle to the 106.

I don't know what he initially trained in, I imagine a T37 which isn't much harder to fly than driving a Honda Civic is.
But anyway, it doesn't really take any particular talent or smarts to fly a airplane. Anybody who can read a checklist can do it in a few hours. There is, though, some distinction between an airplane driver and a pilot.

I can pick up someone randomly off the street, take them up in a plane and teach them enough in a couple of hours to fly it around and land it, especially something like a fighter where all you really have to do is find the end of the runway, point the thing at it and wait for a thud then pull off the power. "controlled crashes" are normal landings for a fighter plane. (Yes, that's exaggeration but not far from the truth)

I had a student years ago who got airsick on every flight. He dinged the airplane on his first solo...I thought he would never be a pilot but he got into the Air Force and eventually proved me wrong - he recently retired with some 12000 hours! (He was attached to the Pentagon and was there on 9/11)

As far as Chimp is concerned, I don't find it unbelievable that he could memorize enough to drive the 102. Whether he did it with any modicum of skill or grace is obviously quite another question.
;-)

[Redstone]

58. Well, I doubt there's anyone on DU who knows more about flying than you do, so

I'll take your word for it.

I've flown little bitty airplanes with one prop quite a bit, so I know it's not rocket science, and am in fact looking into that new Sport Pilot licensing. But I had a ride in the backseat of a Phantom once (yes, it was a ferry flight), and was mightily impressed. That was why I was dubious about the Chimpster being able to do it...I just CAN'T picture him actually COMPLETING a checklist.

I forgot that it was a 102. I thought they had all been replaced by the 106 by 1972. I forgot that the ANG doesn't fly different planes from the USAF anymore, just older block models of the ones the AF has.

Thanks for the input.

Redstone

[karlrschneider]

66. I appreciate the undeserved compliment. Mac (DemoTex) is a far more

authoritative DU pilot than I am and there probably are others too...I just have more spare time being semi-retired and a DU addiction. :D

But checklists are written on laminated cards, and so using them is pretty much a matter of reading one line and checking the item it refers to. And it is common (maybe not a good thing in all cases) for pilots to have them committed to memory - depending on the complexity of the aircraft. When I fly a small twin-engine (or single engine) plane, I don't use a printed checklist, I go through a mental one that was drilled into my brain 40 years ago and it covers all the important points. Actually, I use 2 of them: CIGARTIP and CIGFTRS. I'll explain them down-post for anyone who's interested, but that isn't important...what does matter is that they do enough to ensure the critical elements have been addressed. It's not enough, obviously, for a complex jet a/c because there are dozens of systems that must be turned on or off, tested, verified and confirmed that don't exist in a small plane. In any case, there's no way in hell I would be a passenger in any aircraft being piloted by GWB unless I had full access to dual controls.

C controls, (ailerons, rudder, elevator, flaps all free and properly operating)
I instruments (gyros etc.)
G gas (fuel...proper tanks selected & gauges checked)
A altimeter set (field elevation or from current weather info)
R radios (frequencies set/noted for ground control, tower, departure, etc.)
T trim (important...set for takeoff, mainly elevator)
I (another I - get latest Information, from ATIS (automatic terminal information service if available)
P prop or power - engine settings from charts or calculated from current elevation & temp

Then after engine start

C this is the same as the C in the first one...double check controls free and correct
I another double check instruments...oil pressures, temps, and so on
G 'gas' - fuel boost pumps, auto-rich, flow checks
F flaps, set properly for takeoff...varies with individual planes
T check trim and for turbines verify engine readings "in the green"
R run-up (piston powered craft...check magnetos, prop feathering & control, etc.)
S Seat belts...sign on if there is one and door(s) check for locked, sealed & secured

[Redstone]

69. Like I said, I can't picture bushyboy doing that.

Redstone

[hvn_nbr_2]

41. That was when he still had the brain of a C student...

before 40 years of overdoing Jim and Jack and coke wiped out all cognitive function.

[SoCalDem]

50. He still wants to be a pilot, and tries to fly all the time (pic)

Comin' in fer a landin'... look out Miss laura

[TexasProgresive]

62. As someone who served in the 147th at Ellington

1st Bush was trained to fly the F102 not 106. They are similar planes in that they are interceptors and extremely delta wing, in fact one is the Delta Dart and the other the Delta Dagger- I forget which. In any case it is a very twitchy plane and it has a glide slope of a brick, if that.

I have no evidence to prove this but I don't believe that he was ever qualified to fly the F102 and flew in the TF102 trainer which has a seat for an instructor. The 102 did have a very sophisticated weapons system that allowed the plane to be controlled from the ground. I really don't know the details because I worked on Avionics- navigational gear.

BTW. I transferred out of the 147th in Texas to the 166th in Delaware and back again. Each time I was discharged honorable and had 45 days to get in a new unit. This shows up clearly on my DD-214. Another thing is that no one goes through basic training as an enlisted man and gets to go to flight school without going to OTS (officer training school), but he did. It just galls me to think about this AWOL deserter calling himself the Commander in Chief.

[sam sarrha]

63. i have Asperger's Syndrome, i'm a high functioning Autistic.. i soloed in 5 hours when i was 15,

44 years ago, i am in the top 97%% in spacial relationships and abstract thought and a 7%% in clerical abilities, 14%% in Math but i take notes in algebra, i have an IQ of 164 but i am essentially functionally illiterate.. tho i have good verbal skills due to my obsessive compulsion or Fascination with the parts of things and discriptions, i was a bioligist and i perceive thought visually/sort of like synesthesia, i am a mechanical/technical savant..

i can see how he might have done the basics.. he was driven to be like dad, a fighter pilot, after that was done he lost interest in further training and continued polishing his narcissist ego instead, and there was some problem with bringing "plants" back from FL in a military plane..shortly there after he was required to take a drug test before he got in another plane for any reason... none of officers wanted the drunken druged out stuck up rich kid brat to kill himself on their watch

[Redstone]

65. You may have all that you have, but you're not STUPID. bushyboy is just plain dumb.

That was what I was wondering about.

Redstone

[Pilotguy]

70. Bush Pilot

Well, Duke Cunningham was the first Navy "Ace" in Vietnam flying F-4 Phantoms and he never struck me as very bright. Although flying any jet requires some skill, the F-102 employed fairly simple systems compared to moderns fighters like the F-16, F-18, and the F-22 Raptor. I don't think Bush would have made it through ground school in a modern fighter.

[leftofthedial]

71. money can't buy you love

but it can buy anything else.

I've heard stories that as a "pilot" he very nearly killed himself and passengers. Curse our rotten luck.

[Forkboy]

75. Do that much coke and you can fly too.

[Hekate]

77. He was even a poster boy for the TANG, no kidding.He used to be reasonably articulate...

...there are films of him running for Texas governor and so on where he sounds intelligent, with his thoughts pulled together.

But as for his "flying" days -- I gather he never was all that great at it, and when he didn't show up to take his annual physical they ended. The well-known rumor is that he was seriously into coke by that time.

As for how Bush got into TANG, my husband says that was one of the so-called champagne squadrons, where football stars and "fortunate sons" could wait out the war in Vietnam. (Hubby served in the plain old Air Force, though fortunately in the States.)

Hekate