So I was out when the news came down. Pres Obama got a special b'day gift - Prop 8 DOWN!

[Stinky The Clown]

That's good news all the way around.

Isn't it?

:)

[cherokeeprogressive]

1. My gay Daughter's ecstatic, but how is this a gift to Obama?

I don't get that part at all.

[misanthrope]

3. Not a gift he wanted...

...I seem to recall him declining support for gay marriage while stumping in 2008.

[Fearless]

13. +10000

[Political Tiger]

18. You recall wrong.

Obama spoke out against prop 8 "while stumping in 2008."

[Stinky The Clown]

5. The title was sarcastic irony

He never supported gay people. He just liked to call himself a fierce advocate.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. I'm sorry, I took your post totally wrong. Color me challenged.

My Daughter IS ecstatic though! She's been sending me cell phone pics from a rally in Long Beach for the last couple of hours.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I am truly glad for your daughter.

Really.

[Drunken Irishman]

50. I'm so happy for you Cherokee!

And your family.

:fistbump:

[Whisp]

68. that's a falsehood.

where do you pull this stuff out of?

[Lost4words]

2. what did Obama have to do with it???

but it is good news, but it is far from over.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Nothing

Which is why this is such a delicious irony on this, of all days.

[Lost4words]

91. Gotcha, I concur!!

[Lorien]

7. Since it's not something he supports I doubt that he'd think of it as a "gift"

but it IS a gift to the rest of humanity!

[Drunken Irishman]

17. Obama opposed the California ban on gay marriage.

[Touchdown]

20. How fierce of him!

[Drunken Irishman]

22. Regardless - I'm sure he's happy about this development.

But I mean, let's take a good news story and use it to piss on Obama!

YAY!

:party:

[Hekate]

23. +1 thank you. Like you, I recall Obama opposed Prop 8. The Governator is glad it's overturned...

... and likewise I believe the President is.

Hekate

[Luminous Animal]

51. Obama's "fierce" opposition...

From DUer sgsmith:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8882622&mesg_id=8882703

News articles appear to disagree with your rememberence.

From 2008:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1598407/20081101/story...
"I think it's unnecessary," Obama told Sway, in response to a question sent in by Gangstagigz from San Leandro, California. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

From 2009:
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=29702
A new ballot initiative could put Obama and fellow Democrats in a tough position on such a controversial social issue, particularly since the homosexual community is part of his base and he has agreed with them on other issues. Last year, Obama opposed Prop 8, calling it discriminatory, while simultaneously saying he opposed "gay marriage." But if he supports the new initiative, he would make history by becoming the first president publicly to back "gay marriage." A recently uncovered document revealed that Obama supported "gay marriage" when running for the Illinois state Senate in 1996. The Los Angeles Times editorial board, in its Jan. 21 edition, said Obama's "views on the issue are an embarrassing muddle."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2009/January/Obama-... -/
CBNNews.com - Newly released documents show that Barack Obama has taken a more conservative position on same-sex marriage since he first ran for the Illinois Senate in 1996.

While campaigning for President, Obama made it clear that he opposes gay marriage.

"I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and I'm not in favor of gay marriage," he said.

What that means is less clear because Obama also opposes a federal marriage amendment. He also opposes California's marriage amendment, Prop 8.

Likewise, he supports civil unions and federal rights for gay couples.

[Touchdown]

25. Got pictures of his happiness that California gays can mock his religious values?

:shrug:

[Drunken Irishman]

27. You might want to re-write that sentence so that it makes some sense.

:hug:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. You're a classy person...

I guess your perception of what Obama thinks of gays is exactly what I think of you as a person.

Figure that one out, Touchdown.

I take back my hug.

x(

[Touchdown]

36. It's not perception, and...

I'm sorry I can't be your date to the prom.

I know you mean well, but I've been seeing Obama's behavior in thousands of other people all my life, and I recognize it. I'm also worn out about it.

Take care!

[Drunken Irishman]

37. I don't want you to be my date...

I just want you to stop putting words in Obama's mouth. Your post about him not supporting gay marriage has merit and I won't say you're wrong on that aspect. However, when you claim he only opposed Prop 8 to garner votes without any substantial fact or imply he wasn't happy about this ruling, that is where I have a problem.

Prove those two points, then maybe I'll see where you're coming from. But until then, all you appear to me is someone who is intensely bitter and instead of enjoying this moment, you'd rather use it to tear down Pres. Obama.

That, in my mind, is pretty petty.

[Touchdown]

39. Ok. Let's hear from the White House instead.

"The President has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory. He will continue to promote equality for LGBT Americans."

Official White House statement Today after the ruling. They are so ecstatic about the ruling I almost slipped into a coma.

Here's what Liza Minelli said...

"wonderful news."

Which one sounds happier about this?

[Drunken Irishman]

40. Have you spoken to Obama personally about his feelings?

You said he's not happy about this. Where in that statement does it suggest he isn't happy?

First it was that he wasn't happy.

Now it's that he isn't happier.

haha

You crack me up!

[Touchdown]

44. It suggests no emotion at all.

I could infer even a little annoyance in the tone of the statement that they even had to write one. It's almost like "YEEEEEESSSSS! We have told you this many times! How many more will we have to tell you before you get it?"

I never said he was angry or pissed off about it, but that WH statement is anything but happy.

[Drunken Irishman]

46. No. You said he wasn't happy.

It doesn't imply he's mad or pissed off - but it does imply he isn't glad this was struck down. Prove that. You can claim the statement isn't happy enough for you, however, there is no evidence to suggest he isn't happy about this.

[Touchdown]

52. There's no evidence to suggest he is, which is your assertion..

So we are at an impasse.

[Drunken Irishman]

54. Actually, there is.

My evidence is A) the fact he opposed it in 2008 and B) his own WH releasing a statement in support of the overturning. You might not like the lengths he went to oppose it or the happiness of his response - but that is enough evidence to suggest he is glad it was overturned.

So we're not at an impasse. I've got Obama's words as definitive proof. You only have conjecture and what you think Pres. Obama thinks. Until you can find a quote that suggests he isn't at least supportive of this being overturned, don't suggest he isn't. Okay?

[Touchdown]

62. Your words... "I'm sure he's happy with..."

happy

The White House statement, which The President couldn't even be bothered to read, is anything but happy. "At least supportive" isn't what you asserted. You said "Happy". The evidence that he's happy isn't there no matter how much you wish it to be.

[Drunken Irishman]

66. No. Happy is my words...

Hence the I'm sure. Unlike you, I didn't definitively say Obama was happy.

However, I have evidence that suggests he is happy. Your evidence comes down to what you feel wasn't a happy release from the WH.

But see, deductive reasoning would lead us to believe that Obama is happy because he opposed Prop 8 and released a statement reiterating his opposition to it.

That might not be good enough for you - but it does suggest he isn't the opposite of happy or indifferent. More importantly, it suggests he supports the ruling. Something you implied.

[Touchdown]

86. For the record, I never said he wasn't happy as you assert.

I asked you if you had any pictures of him being happy today. That is what I asked.

I had to read through the whole sub thread to check if I really said that. I didn't. That is proof that you put words in my mouth.

[sabrina 1]

99. Who knows whether he's happy or not?

The strongest stand he took on this issue was to say he opposed gay marriage. Anyone who opposes gay marriage is not happy with this ruling today.

So, if he is happy about it it can only be for one of two reasons:

1) He is glad he is off the hook before the election as far as being asked to take a stand on the issue .... or ...
2) He was just saying he opposed gay marriage for political purposes before the election and we should believe what he said 14 years ago.

What other reason would there be for him to be happy?

[stranger81]

101. While simultaneously opposing gay marriage itself. [n/t]

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Obama supports the overturning of Prop 8.

Not that you actually know anything about the man.

[SunsetDreams]

38. Barack Obama Opposes Prop 8, the anti-marriage amendment Letter

Barack Obama Opposes Prop 8, the anti-marriage amendment
by: Brian Leubitz
Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 19:05:08 PM PDT

Dear Friends,
Thank you for the opportunity to welcome everyone to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club's Pridc Breakfast and to congratulate you on continuing a legacy of success, stretching back thirty-six years. As one of the oldest and most influential LGBT organizations in the country, you have continually rallied to support Democratic candidates and causes, and have fought tirelessly to secure equal rights and opportunities for LGBT Americans in California and throughout the country.

As the Democratic nominee for President, I am proud to join with and support the LGBT community in an effort to set our nation on a course that recognizes LGBT Americans with full equality under the law. That is why I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law. That is why I support repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy, and the passage of laws to protect LGBT Americans from hate crimes and employment discrimination. And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states.

For too long. issues of LGBT rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us. It's time to move beyond polarization and live up to our founding promise of equality by treating all our citizens with dignity and respect. This is no less than a core issue about who we are as Democrats and as Americans.

Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks. My thanks again to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club for allowing me to be a part of today's celebration. I look forward to working with you in the coming months and years, and I wish you all continued success.

Sincerely,

s

Barack Obama


http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=8D33DFAD2EFE1849285AEE74E1C1F19C?diaryId=6307

Better Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/obama-opposes-california_n_109944.html

[Touchdown]

41. And this is what the White House said today, because he couldn't be bothered.

"The President has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory. He will continue to promote equality for LGBT Americans."

:boring:

[SunsetDreams]

42. If he couldn't be bothered, there would have been NO statement.

[Touchdown]

45. It came from a WH staffer.

He couldn't be bothered.

[SunsetDreams]

47. Sorry you feel let down by a WH statement

[Touchdown]

53. It's merely predictable.

BTW: He is your President, not your boyfriend. He can be criticized.

[SunsetDreams]

61. You are right.

It's a good thing I don't think he is my boyfriend.:crazy:

I don't have a problem with constructive criticism at all.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunsetDreams]

74. Oh well

[Luminous Animal]

55. Obama believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. He stated it over and over again...

From DUer sgsmith:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8882622&mesg_id=8882703

News articles appear to disagree with your rememberence.

From 2008:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1598407/20081101/story...
"I think it's unnecessary," Obama told Sway, in response to a question sent in by Gangstagigz from San Leandro, California. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

From 2009:
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=29702
A new ballot initiative could put Obama and fellow Democrats in a tough position on such a controversial social issue, particularly since the homosexual community is part of his base and he has agreed with them on other issues. Last year, Obama opposed Prop 8, calling it discriminatory, while simultaneously saying he opposed "gay marriage." But if he supports the new initiative, he would make history by becoming the first president publicly to back "gay marriage." A recently uncovered document revealed that Obama supported "gay marriage" when running for the Illinois state Senate in 1996. The Los Angeles Times editorial board, in its Jan. 21 edition, said Obama's "views on the issue are an embarrassing muddle."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2009/January/Obama-... -/
CBNNews.com - Newly released documents show that Barack Obama has taken a more conservative position on same-sex marriage since he first ran for the Illinois Senate in 1996.

While campaigning for President, Obama made it clear that he opposes gay marriage.

"I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and I'm not in favor of gay marriage," he said.

What that means is less clear because Obama also opposes a federal marriage amendment. He also opposes California's marriage amendment, Prop 8.

Likewise, he supports civil unions and federal rights for gay couples.

[SunsetDreams]

57. I know his personal beliefs

I'm hoping one day he changes that.

[ruggerson]

4. I was thinking along the same lines

:toast:

[NMMNG]

8. Have I told you lately how much my wife and I love you?

In a totally platonic way, of course. :loveya:

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Of course!

:smooooooch:

:)

[WonderGrunion]

12. Of course it is great news

I could make a decent argument that the split between the left and the Obama administration started from the alienation felt when Obama supporters were celebrating while Prop 8 opponents were still reeling.

Without Prop 8, I don't think there would be the animosity that exists today between liberal bloggers and groundhogs like me.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Whoa ...... okaaaaay ........

[LooseWilly]

26. public option, DADT, DOMA, ENDA, cap and trade, EFCA, Arne Duncan...

I'm pretty sure it would've become obvious to the Left that they were along for the ride, at best... and that the boys and girls in the Whitehouse aren't interested in taking chances by working on their interests ('special interests'?) when there might be some Republican-Lite voters to be wooed with GHWB-style policies...

To be sure though, that was probably the promptest slap-in-the-face that the Left has ever gotten from a Democratic administration. (See above comment about wooing Republican-Lites for my theory of the political calculus involved.)

But the administration's fierceness in this fight... may just go a ways in mending... :rofl:

Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face while typing that. Maybe next time...

I am curious to see how the administration's political calculus works out. (From a strictly theoretical perspective... why harbor any delusions of this administration doing any work to represent the interests of the Left?... it has been fascinating to watch myself shift from activist to disengaged spectator though.)

[depakid]

34. You don't reckon this might have had something to do with it:

[Unvanguard]

48. No, it wasn't Prop. 8. It was Rick Warren.

Prop. 8 was devastating, but it didn't have anything to do with Obama. Rick Warren was the blow that hurt because it made people realize that, Democratic or Republican, "ally" or not, when it came to the LGBT community it was still going to be "politics as usual." And we have continued to see that ever since.

[Canuckistanian]

15. Obama had nothing to do with it, either way

He was a spectator, like most of us.

[jgraz]

24. But he was a fierce spectator.

[Marr]

33. lmao

:D

[Drunken Irishman]

49. I'd say he did a lot more than most people on DU who criticize him.

But whatever. It's pretty sad that on a joyous day like this that we're resorting to taking potshots at the president over something HE OPPOSED.

[Touchdown]

56. He's your President, not your boyfriend!

It's sad that a joyous day like this was achieved without the President lifting a finger, but DU has a cadre of people wanting to give him a Nobel prize for it.

[Drunken Irishman]

76. Who claimed he was my boyfriend?

It speaks more about you that you've spent more time in this thread tearing Pres. Obama down than the people who actually opposed it. Hell, you've spent more time in this thread complaining about Pres. Obama than actually celebrating the fact it was overturned.

Which makes me wonder if you're a bigger hater of Obama than you are a supporter of gay rights.

[Drunken Irishman]

79. Oh and I wish Obama were my boyfriend!

:loveya:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Drunken Irishman]

81. That's about what I expect from you.

Fakirs and flunkies, eh?

You stay classy.

[POAS]

89. On the contrary

Most (if not all) postings about the court ruling that first bring up Obama have been to bash Obama in some manner. The vast majority of posts I have seen from Obama "supporters" (it is sad that I cannot include all DU members in that group) are trying to answer unfair criticisms of him on a day when all here should be unified in happiness and celebration and not in bashing other DUers, Democrats in general and the President in particular.

[Touchdown]

98. I do not agree

The president is indifferent to gay people... At best. His attitude toward us is indefensible. The " bashings" as you call it are completely justified.

For all his vileness, Dick Cheney has always been more pro gay than Obama ever has. That is truly sad.

[jgraz]

96. Really. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

For example, I've been donating to HRC, donating to and volunteering for EQCA and giving money to other groups like the ACLU who oppose Prop 8. In addition, I've made literally hundreds of public statements expressing my disgust at the Prop 8 supporters and calling for the revocation of the Mormon Church's tax exempt status.

So tell us, what has our Fierce Advocate in Chief done? Has he even made a public statement praising the recent decision? (This is me not holding my breath)

[havocmom]

103. do you have survailance on "people on DU who criticize him"?

If not, you don't know what "people on DU who criticize him" have done in the trenches for the issue, do you?

Bad enough to put words in the mouths of "people on DU who criticize him" in this thread. Now you are saying you know what people have or haven't done to advocate for an issue?

Hubris has a new fierce advocate.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

95. Hence, it's indeed a gift.

If you worked for it, it wouldn't be a gift, now, would it?

[dionysus]

16. yes, it is.

[Touchdown]

19. I'm sure he called Rick Warren and Donnie McClurkin to celebrate.

:P

[crazyjoe]

21. uh, obama is against gay marrige

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Uh, Obama is against prop 8

Despite claims otherwise.

[Touchdown]

32. An aside pander statement 2 weeks before the election.

How daring and principled.:eyes:

[Drunken Irishman]

43. And THAT'S actually wrong, Touchdown...

Pres. Obama consistently said throughout the campaign he opposed Prop 8.

From JULY 2008:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-07-02/news/17171328_1_same-sex-marriage-civil-unions-ban-on-gay-marriage">Obama opposes proposed ban on gay marriage

Gay rights moved to the forefront of the presidential campaign Tuesday after Democratic Sen. Barack Obama's announcement that he opposes a November ballot measure that would ban same-sex marriage in California.

In a letter to San Francisco's Alice B. Toklas Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Democratic Club, the presumptive presidential nominee said he opposed "the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution" and similar efforts in other states.

Obama's position on Proposition 8 was announced at a club event Sunday. Last week, Arizona Sen. John McCain, the expected GOP standard-bearer in November, told officials of Protect Marriage, a coalition that gathered 1.1 million signatures for the California measure, that he backs their efforts "to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a man and a woman."

...

"Senator Obama supports civil unions, and he has consistently opposed federal and state constitutional marriage amendments because as we have seen in some states, enshrining a definition of marriage into the constitution can allow states to roll back the civil rights and benefits that are provided in domestic partnerships and civil unions."

I don't know why you continue to claim he only sent out a statement two weeks before the election. :eyes:

[Luminous Animal]

58. Essentially Obama supports separate and unequal.

"Senator Obama supports civil unions, and he has consistently opposed federal and state constitutional marriage amendments because as we have seen in some states, enshrining a definition of marriage into the constitution can allow states to roll back the civil rights and benefits that are provided in domestic partnerships and civil unions."

[Drunken Irishman]

60. Right. It's something I disagree with.

However, that wasn't the point. The claim was that Pres. Obama only came out in opposition to Prop 8 two weeks before the election. That was untrue. He spoke out against it months before.

[Luminous Animal]

64. Yes. He really did not have much to say during the campaign. Arnold was

much more vocal in his opposition. And Obama felt compelled to assert his anti-gay cred by making sure that we all knew that he thought gay marriage is icky.

[Drunken Irishman]

69. He said plenty during the campaign...

He also, you know, was running for president and maybe that kind of got in the way of things?

[Luminous Animal]

71. And not much of it was helpful...He was making the fundies argument.

From DUer sgsmith:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8882622&mesg_id=8882703

News articles appear to disagree with your rememberence.

In fact, it was depressing.

From 2008:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1598407/20081101/story...
"I think it's unnecessary," Obama told Sway, in response to a question sent in by Gangstagigz from San Leandro, California. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

From 2009:
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPnews.asp?ID=29702
A new ballot initiative could put Obama and fellow Democrats in a tough position on such a controversial social issue, particularly since the homosexual community is part of his base and he has agreed with them on other issues. Last year, Obama opposed Prop 8, calling it discriminatory, while simultaneously saying he opposed "gay marriage." But if he supports the new initiative, he would make history by becoming the first president publicly to back "gay marriage." A recently uncovered document revealed that Obama supported "gay marriage" when running for the Illinois state Senate in 1996. The Los Angeles Times editorial board, in its Jan. 21 edition, said Obama's "views on the issue are an embarrassing muddle."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2009/January/Obama-... -/
CBNNews.com - Newly released documents show that Barack Obama has taken a more conservative position on same-sex marriage since he first ran for the Illinois Senate in 1996.

While campaigning for President, Obama made it clear that he opposes gay marriage.

"I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and I'm not in favor of gay marriage," he said.

What that means is less clear because Obama also opposes a federal marriage amendment. He also opposes California's marriage amendment, Prop 8.

Likewise, he supports civil unions and federal rights for gay couples.

[Drunken Irishman]

72. You can debate whether it was helpful or not...

That doesn't change the fact he opposed it. He's on the record as opposing it.

Like I said, I disagree with Pres. Obama on his stance toward gay marriage. I disagreed with Howard Dean in 2004 when he came out against gay marriage.

But I'm not going to turn this into an anti-Obama moment. It shouldn't be about Obama and yet, some of you guys want to make it about him.

Why not celebrate the fact it's been overturned and continue to press Obama forward on his promises toward the GLBT community?

[Touchdown]

77. This thread is to point out that we won DESPITE Obama's foot on our heads.

anti-Obama? Who's fault is that?

I gave money to him. I supported him. I argued with Hillary supporters for him. I called out Republican Lies about him. I walked neighborhoods and campaigned for him. I manned a phone a couple of times for him. I drove old ladies to the polls for him. I proudly voted for him. All because he said the drivel you are defending him over. 2 years later, that is what it's become. Drivel.

[Drunken Irishman]

78. Well good for you.

I'm glad you did all that. I'm glad because I think it was a wise choice and I believe down the road, you'll see it too.

However, let's be honest. This thread was not to point out it was overturned despite Obama. It was yet another attempt to attack the President. Every day it's something new. Every day we take an issue and run with it and try to twist it into a way to attack Obama.

Your criticism toward the President in this thread has not been consistent.

If you feel he didn't do enough, great. But that wasn't your initial claim. You implied Pres. Obama only opposed prop 8 to pander to GLBT voters. Which I find insulting on two levels. The first that you'd think Pres. Obama was that type of person and the second that you'd think the gay community would be that stupid to not see an exploit like that.

[Touchdown]

82. There you go again... defending your boyfriend.

This thread was an ironic joke at the President's expense because we know some people will automatically give him credit for it. In other threads today, they have.

I do not criticize the President unless he deserves it. Unfortunately it's too much lately, and I hate feeling this way about him, especially when it comes to my rights that he has ignored. But, there it is. Maybe I'm more pissed off about it that you think I should be, but these are the only emotions I have. I can't go to Sears and trade them in on different ones.

And if I implied that he pandered for GLBT votes with is opposition to Prop8, I should have been more assertive in my verbiage. Two years later, I truly believe he was was disingenuous when he opposed Prop8. His actions on GLBT issues in the White House make that more than obvious. If it's insulting to you, then you are correct. I was stupid enough to not see through the ruse, and believed in him anyway.

And No! Not good for me! I was duped. Like many other people in 2008, I got caught up in the exitement, and joined in. It was fun, but in the end, Getting somebody elected isn't the real goal. Changing the world for the better is, but I can't do much of that.

[POAS]

90. What is this fixation you have

with using the "Obama is (is not) your boyfriend"? Is this intended as an insult? It just strikes me as outstandingly juvenile and I might add revealing.

[Touchdown]

97. Some people are acting like it.

Any criticism is met as a personal affront, like a teenager would respond to an attack on her boyfriend.

Wheatevrr is revealed to you, is either your religious beliefs or an action of your brain chemistry. I have nothing to do with either.

[Touchdown]

65. I never made that claim. Do not put words in my mouth.

What I remembered was that verbal statement on the campaign trail. I never read, or even saw that written statement until tonight, and I assume you never did either until somebody googled it as a "See! he really is worship worthy!" attempt to get the rest of us to shut up.

So he wrote a statement before the convention, and Google has vindicated him. I bow before his greatness!

[Drunken Irishman]

70. I don't put words in people's mouths...

I know what Obama said. I remember what Obama said. I remember him talking about it in the debates. I remember Obama coming out against it in the summer.

But I think again this is the problem we're running into here. Instead of focusing on the fact it was overturned, you've all decided to turn this into another Obama flamefest on an issue Obama opposed.

Whatever, though.

[Touchdown]

73. He had nothing to do with it! He doesn't deserve credit for it.

He said nothing when the case was filed. He showed no support for Bois and Olsen this past year, and his own justice dept. used a beastiality argument in a similar case somewhere else in 2009.

You and a few others want to give him an Oscar for this. He doesn't deserve it... President or not! He's merely standing on the corner when it happened.

[Drunken Irishman]

75. Now who's putting words into people's mouths?

I never said Obama deserves credit for it. I never implied he was the reason it was overturned. In fact, I didn't even hint at anything remotely close to that.

All I said was that he opposed Prop 8 back in the summer of 2008.

Give Obama an Oscar? No. Give him praise? Of course not. He didn't make this moment possible. Just as he wasn't the reason Prop 8 passed in the first place.

[Touchdown]

59. And he hasn't done SHIT since the election. Talk is cheap!

And it wasn't a statement I was talking about, but a verbal aside on a campaign stop.

[Drunken Irishman]

63. It wasn't a statement you were talking about?

You claimed here and up thread that Pres. Obama only came out in opposition to Prop 8 two weeks before the election to pander for a few more votes (I believe that was your exact words above in reply to me).

Well that isn't true. Pres. Obama officially came out against Prop 8 in June: http://calitics.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=9D8EB430191236BBCCB02FE8A4833BA0?diaryId=6307

Now you can say you meant this or that - but your original point was that he only came out against it two weeks before the election. Hence your "how principled" comment.

[Tarheel_Dem]

83. Great catch, DI. Consistency & intellectual honesty still matter, in some quarters.

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

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[Touchdown]

84. The only thing I heard from his mouth in 2008 about it was 2 weeks before election day.

I never saw this written statement you are waving around in an attempt to get me to cower away. The first time I saw that was up thread tonight.

... and I suspect, neither did you.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherina]

30. Rec'd for the delicious irony. Still 0. What else is new? n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

87. Thanks!

A few people got my point. Most didn't. A few made themselves obvious.

[Ignis]

102. Stunningly, laughably obvious.

But hey, laughter is a gift, too! :D

[VMI Dem]

88. People mistake his opposition to Prop 8 as support for gay marriage.

He has repeatedly voiced his opposition to civil rights for gay citizens.

[Xenotime]

92. We are thrilled. Hopefully this will lead to more progressive forms of marriage.

[DevonRex]

94. Yes.

[Lilith Velkor]

100. w00t!

[Stinky The Clown]

104. I guess people are done stumbling through this thread, huh?

[SidDithers]

105. Unrec...nt

Sid

[Stinky The Clown]

106. Liddle late there, Sid

[SidDithers]

108. Better late than never, Stinky...nt

Sid

[asdjrocky]

107. But I thought he was against gay marriage? nt