Axelrod: President remains opposed to same-sex marriage

[BurtWorm]

Why did anyone in the WH feel a need to say anything like this today of all days? What goes through their minds? Who do they think this benefits? Who's going to love Obama more for taking this tack?

:wtf:


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/112795-axelrod-obama-remains-opposed-gay-marriage


By Michael O'Brien - 08/05/10 09:38 AM ET

President Obama remains opposed to same-sex marriage despite a federal judge's decision to strike down a ban on such marriages, a top White House adviser said Thursday.

Senior adviser David Axelrod said the president supports "equality" for gay and lesbian couples, but did not address directly Obama's position on Wednesday's court ruling, which struck down as unconstitutional California's Proposition 8, a 2008 ballot initiative banning same-sex marriage in the state.

"The president does oppose same-sex marriage, but he supports equality for gay and lesbian couples, and benefits and other issues, and that has been effectuated in federal agencies under his control," Axelrod said on MSNBC.

The Obama administration has found itself in a difficult position at times on the issue of gay rights. The president has endorsed civil unions and repealing the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. He's also expanded benefits to federal employees in same-sex relationships.

But Obama has also come under fire for not moving quickly or aggressively enough on issues important to the LGBT community, which welcomed the Wednesday ruling. The decision argued that gay and lesbian couples were protected against discrimination by the Constitution, and the ban violated constitutional due process and equal protection. The decision is expected to face appeal, perhaps all the way to the Supreme Court.

Axelrod noted that Obama had opposed Prop 8 all along.

"The president opposed Proposition 8 at the time — he felt it was divisive and mean spirited," he said, adding that Obama believes that governing marriage is "an issue for the states."

[Chulanowa]

1. .

[Lilith Velkor]

67. +

[City Lights]

2. Thanks for the confirmation, David!

It's greaaaaaat knowing exactly where the president stands.

Here's what I think of his position: :thumbsdown:

[Missy Vixen]

3. Let me get this straight

He supports "equality" for same-sex couples, but domestic partnerships have already been proven to NOT confer the 1,000+ legal rights marriage does.

Hmmm.

[Ignis]

26. Bingo. If it doesn't convey the same legal rights, it's not "equal" at all.

:argh:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. He's definitely wrong on this issue.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nilram]

6. I wonder if we can get them to make a statement on inter-racial marriage?

Pro? Con? Inquiring minds...

[truth2power]

109. Interracial marriage? Implications vis a vis equal rights for gays...

First of all, how could Pres. Obama not understand the irony of his stance on this? You'd think he'd be embarrassed! Not that many years ago some Americans were "opposed" to Blacks eating at the same lunch counters as whites, drinking from the same water fountain, and, yes, intermarrying.

Those people had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the understanding that it was about equal rights for all .

Now we have an African-American man, sitting in the WH, taking the same position as that which deprived his ancestors of their rights. How sad!

> > > >

Second, there was a caller on the Diane Rehm show this morning (Diane is on vacation). This caller stated that he was a Mormon. In substance this is what he said: that he was opposed gay marriage, but he hastened to say that there was no "malice" inherent in his position. It's just that it's not right, or something to that effect.

Now, I'm an old person, and back in the day I seem to remember people saying that they didn't have anything against Blacks, per se, (the malice issue) but, blah blah....

The more things change.... :eyes:

And even our own president can't lead by example.

[racaulk]

7. Yay! That's my fierce advocate!!1!

:eyes:

[RainDog]

37. LOL!

you are so funny.

[louis-t]

8. Anyone can have an opinion. Obama hasn't stood in the way of

those who want equal rights for gays. But doing the right thing in spite of what your personal views are shows strength of character. Even my very right-wing aunt (now deceased) said "I don't agree that gays should marry, but who am I to tell them what they can or can't do?"

[Qutzupalotl]

13. +1

[EFerrari]

What has he done exactly to demonstrate great strength of character

with respect to marriage equality?

[Marr]

68. Well, you know-- he didn't personally move to enact his own bigotry.

Not so much a principled stand as an irrelevant sit.

But I suppose this is what it's come to. If the man doesn't actively work to undermine a progressive cause, we'll say it shows 'strength of character'.

[Lost4words]

76. with respect to anything except corporate governance?

a major disappointment this president is!

[SunsetDreams]

21. +1

[superduperfarleft]

33. Yes, but it's still a bigoted opinion. n/t

[Dragonfli]

62. an opinion that some are more equal than others is now a sign of character?

It used to be a sign that one's opinion was anti-constitutional, but I guess it is just really only a piece of paper eh?

Can we get a President that holds the opinion that all of us have equal rights under the law, or is that like not a "cool" opinion for a President to have now days?

[Nye Bevan]

84. Well I don't believe that blacks should marry whites

but I won't stand in the way of the ones who do so. Presumably you have no problem with this?

[louis-t]

100. Better than the alternative.

Take the win. Stop condemning people who disagree with you but still do the right thing in the name of freedom. Example: I think anyone who keeps a loaded gun in their home thinking it will somehow "protect" them is an idiot. But I am not interested in taking away someone's right to own a gun.

[Riverman]

141. Maybe Better Argument for Birthers is that Obama was born as a result of an illegal marriage

at the time. Just Sayin!

Another example of Obama not a very courageous politician! How could we expect anything else? Oh yeah, there was that "Fierce Urgency of Now" thing, wasn't there?

Maybe in the sixties when he was born, the laws that prohibited inter-racial marriage should not have been changed due to public opinion at the time?

Come on, Mr. Obama, you were a constitutional professor, you are way smarter than your opinion on gay marriage. Have some courage for a change! Real change, the kind of change we believe in and voted for you to support! Get busy, you got about two and half years.

[Bradical79]

112. I disagree

I'd say that leaving a rights issue up to the states puts homosexuals in a bad spot where a bigoted local population can vote to remove or not grant what should be a guaranteed right of all citizens. Simply not standing in the way of equal rights advocates also means he's not standing in the way of those who don't wish to see equal rights a reality. This is a human rights and constitutional issue that should be addressed directly at the national level, seeing as how he swore to uphold the constitution of the United States when inaugurated.

[Smashcut]

116. FAIL

[Lucky 13]

135. And I have an opinion. He's a homophobe.

I'm sorry. I voted for the man. I've defended him ardently. But he's a homophobe. He's not working for MY rights. He's willing to sit idly by and try to play both sides of the fence.

[jgraz]

144. You mean aside from using the Bully Pulpit to give cover to bigots?

:shrug:

[Cali_Democrat]

154. I thought Obama doesn't use the bully pulpit. n/t

[jgraz]

155. No, he uses unattributed surrogates

Much more his style, but basically the same thing.

So maybe you can explain to me: why was it so important on the day that Prop 8 was overturned for the White House to send out one of these unattributed surrogates to reiterate the President's personal opposition to full civil rights for LGBT citizens? How should the members of that community interpret Obama's actions?

[Cali_Democrat]

156. Probably because Obama opposes same-sex marriage.

He doesn't want to get up in front of the country and say it flat out, so he uses surrogates.

He did it the day prop 8 was overturned because he wanted to convey his continued opposition in case people thought he changed his stance.

People in the GLBT community should be outraged.

[pokerfan]

9. and Judge Walker was a Bush appointee

Is this Bizarro World?

If the president opposes SSM and believes it to be a 'states rights' issue, then why does he claim he opposed Prop 8?

:shrug:

[BurtWorm]

10. Reagan appointee I heard.

And an arch-conservative!

[pokerfan]

12. nominated by Reagan but not confirmed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaughn_R._Walker

[LostinVA]

107. And Laura Bush and Cindy McCain are advocates of marriage equality

And Ted Olsen was our side's attorney.

[DeSwiss]

126. Here's a thought.....

"Pickles Bush admits to supporting gay marriage and abortion rights. There is now no First Lady who would be welcome to speak before an institutional Catholic audience in the US. That's something to think about." -- Daily Dish reader, http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/first-ladies-and-the-catholic-church.html">Link

;)

[LostinVA]

150. Ha! Interesting!

I know Cindy and Megan McCain also posed for H8 posters.

[Doctor_J]

11. Trying to scrape up a few more teabagger votes for November

or maybe trying to get Fox "News" to be nice to him.

He's a slow learner.

[EFerrari]

14. What is the matter with people.

[DefenseLawyer]

15. ABT- Always Be Triangulating!

I'm telling you, if we can just get Ross Perot to run again in 2012 our plan will be perfect!

[Cant trust em]

16. The President is wrong on this one. nt

[gratuitous]

17. Well, there's some leadership for ya

"The president opposes same-sex marriage, but he supports equality for gay and lesbian couples." Which syllable of "equal" is causing the bafflement here? If the goal is equality, the remedy is for the same (not similar) treatment under the law.

This statement is apparently designed to piss off both sides of question just about, uh, equally.

[rexcat]

114. Equal but separate comes to mind! nt

[stray cat]

18. He was asked

and it appears he and Joe Biden did not lie during their campaign. For civil unions but without calling it marriage. I heard him campaign and I didn't think he was lying then - unlike many progressives who hoped he and Joe were both liars.

[BurtWorm]

19. He knew he was going to be asked and that's his best answer?

Dumb!

[stray cat]

20. yes - you do have an excellent point!

[MerryBlooms]

22. So disappointed. :*(

[flvegan]

24. Sorry, you can't "support equality" and "oppose same-sex marriage"

That's like saying they support equal rights for all races, so long as non-whites don't vote.

[LoZoccolo]

27. Do you support free speech for all?

Oh that must mean you support Nazis too!

[flvegan]

28. That's one hell of a reach

even for you.

Score one for Oasis!

[DefenseLawyer]

35. I support free speech for Nazis

Without apology.

[U4ikLefty]

43. Hell yes...I even support free speech for arrogant & ill-informed Chavez-haters.

Hell, those fools are some of the best entertainment on DU.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. The previous poster is technically correct, and this has nothing to do with free speech or Nazis.

You cannot be in support of "equality" and simultaneously "opposed to marriage". If gays aren't legally allowed to marry, their situation is not equal.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

166. I somewhat disagree, one can be for granting any and all rights bestowed by a marriage

without using the specific word.

I disagree with Obama admittedly on his stance but i don't see a disconnect between his comments.

And atleast he has stated atleast once in the past that if a bill comes before his desk that would allow gays to legally marry then he would have no problems signing it.

[Warren DeMontague]

170. I think that people who get uptight over the word "marriage" need to get over themselves.

We have an institution of civic marriage that is wholly divorced (excuse the pun) from the religious institution. To wit, I'm "married"- not "civil unionized"- and I could not be less religious. Catholics can't marry in the church if they're divorced, Orthodox Jews can't marry non-jews.. none of this carries over to the civil institution of marriage.

And if it's the exact same rights and full equality but with a different name, why not call it by the same name? Having to have a different name isn't equality, either.

[Smashcut]

117. FAIL

[otohara]

25. Boo - Predictable, Unfortunate

Only a President Howard Dean would have the cajones to come out of the Dem closet and support this civil rights issue proudly.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. "Separate but equal"

[laughingliberal]

31. Yep. The judge did a good job of showing how civil unions don't provide equal protection. nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. What the heck happenedd to THIS Barack Obama???

"President-elect Obama's answer to a 1996 Outlines newspaper question on marriage was: "I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages." There was no use of the phrase "civil unions".

This answer is among those included in this week's Windy City Times feature on Obama's evolving position on gay marriage. Windy City Times also includes his answers to the candidate questionnaire of IMPACT, at one time a gay political action committee in Illinois. In that survey he also stated his support of same-sex marriage."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/obama-once-supported-same_n_157656.html

When did he becone such a coward?? Had he ever fully explained his sudden conversion to civil unions after being such a strong supporter of gay marriage??? :puke:

[kath]

115. That was Candidate Obama. President Obama is a totally different being.

My disappointment/frustration with this President grows and grows and grows...

I'll join you in :puke: :puke:

[davidhilton]

124. Obama is definitely not perfect; imagine if Pay-me and Johnny Mac were in office?

They would probably send the National Guard to California and round up the sinners . . .

[MannyGoldstein]

32. How bipartisan

And how's that been workin' out?

[Orsino]

34. Well, he can't back down now.

Unless he thinks he can fake a come-to-gay-Jesus conversion, he's stuck in a posture that looks increasingly outdated and self-contradictory.

I only hope that by 2016 even he feels safe in admitting that he never gave two shits about his alleged principle.

[Robeson]

36. He has to keep his cred up with conservatives or...

...he really doesn't believe in full equality of all people. Pick your poison.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

40. .

:-(

[MadHound]

41. What fresh hell is this?

How politically tone deaf can you be? How utterly uncaring? How utterly wrong?

[EFerrari]

53. It's like someone took a magnet to Axelrod's head

and erased all the common sense when he got to Washington. It's just inexplicable. I used to like him so much. Now I'm afraid of the next thing.

[one_voice]

42. This is one of the issues..

where I disagree with the President.

[MellowDem]

44. This.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/08/opinions-on-gay-rights-vary-lot-by.html

Not to say that it couldn't be done more diplomatically and not that it isn't infuriating, but it is pure political calculation. We all know what Obama's real views are on it. He supposedly "used" to be for it. He still is. He's just playing politics. As it is, what he says on it won't have much effect now. The Supreme Court makeup will be the biggest factor now. And there ain't much we can do about changing that when this comes around in 2012.

Maybe he shouldn't have even said anything, but if he hadn't (because he is being asked) it would still come across badly. While it shouldn't be in the perfect world, the rights of others always has been part of politics and gets dragged into the process of legislating, unless the courts can overule it once and for all.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. His word is his word and he says he is opposed to equality

If that is not the case, he is slandering others and bearing false witness for his own personal gain, and that is not being a good Christian, nor a decent human being.
The notion that he is lying is not a defense. It makes it worse, not better.

[MellowDem]

95. Well, it's an explanation, not a defense...

as to why he used to be for it and now is not. I fully understand the anger towards Obama over his stance of lukewarm support to the GLBT community. But Obama is a politician. When the time is right politically to him, he will do what is right. But I don't think that excuses what is basically political expediency using other's rights.

[Bluenorthwest]

163. I do not recall the New Testament he is bashing me with

containing an exemption for politicians to lie, spin, and do wrong for their own gain's sake. It sort of says the opposite of that, so it gets old seeing him claiming to be kosher while eating lobster. I just have no respect for hypocrites. Do not expect me to be offering up reasons for lies and bullshit alternated with announcements of deep religious devotion.
Bullshit is just bullshit.

[mopinko]

93. +1

[Hell Hath No Fury]

157. I 've always thought "playing politics" with peoples lives --

was the shittiest kind of politicas. :puke:

[MellowDem]

161. It is, but that is a part of politics...

unfortunately. Just look at the health care bill. That was literally, in many cases, playing with people's lives. Until rights are clearly defined by our courts, the ones that aren't will be up for politicing.

[AlabamaLibrul]

45. "Change" I can believe in! n/t

[phasma ex machina]

46. I'm just sittin' on a fence

I'm just sittin' on a fence
You can say I got no sense
Trying to make up my mind
Really is too horrifying
So I'm sittin on a fence

- Stones

[Starry Messenger]

47. I hope Obama reads the Prop 8 ruling.

There is much there for a constitutional scholar to learn from. And that's all I can say without getting deleted.

[Goldstein1984]

48. Disappointing

It's all been said upthread. I just wanted to say I agree with those who are beginning to question the President's principles. Maybe he's just another politician.

Maybe it's no longer possible to become President with principles intact. Maybe we're asking too much for a president to believe in equality and act on that belief at the same time.

I imagine it's hard for a politician to remember everything they say and promise. Something like the logical inconsistency of believing in equality but not in gay marriage can slip by so easily.

[QC]

49. Hopetastic! n/t

[laughingliberal]

70. "the logical inconsistency of believing in equality but not in gay marriage can slip by so easily."

+1000

[defendandprotect]

50. .. but a president who's a Constitutional lawyer saying this isn't "divisive" or "mean spirited" ?

This was a stunningly eloquent decision by the Court --

This was petty of the WH!

[Iggo]

52. Wait...what?

[slay]

54. Let this be a lesson to liberals

this is what happens when you vote for a pro-corporate Dem more concerned about getting elected than doing the right thing. If Obama REALLY believes gay marriage is wrong, I can't vote for him again. This shit about "states rights" is just a way for him to have it both ways. STAND UP FOR PROGRESSIVE VALUES OR GET OUT OF THE WAY OBAMA damn! :mad:

[NorthCarolina]

140. +1 n/t

[Rhythm]

147. Damn well said. n/t

[budkin]

55. You know he supports it, he just can't say that or the media would lose their shit

[slay]

56. Then I have no respect for him - playing politics with peoples lives

it's bullshit! If this is how our system works when the President has to LIE about believing in equality - then our system is broken, and our president is a sad, pathetic excuse for a man. :grr:

[Zhade]

57. So he's either a bigot, or a liar? Great choices.

NT!

[Bluenorthwest]

89. Then he is a bearer of false witness against his neighbors

for the benefit of his own personal gain, and that is not only bad, it is also in direct violation of the very faith he claims as reason for his bigoted attitudes. Hypocrisy is not a defense. It is an additional wrong.

[walldude]

136. OOhh they might call him a name.. or say he wasn't born in the USA.. or

they might say he's a socialist... can't have any of that.. :eyes:

[Lucky 13]

137. Just like it's understandable one wouldn't intervene in a gay bashing?

Yeah, it's a horrible and wrong... but I could get hurt if I did anything!

Same thing. HE COULD say something, but it could hurt him politically.

[Radical Activist]

58. Did Axelrod feel the need to talk about it?

Or is it just that he answered a reporters question? It looks like Axelrod only mentioned marriage briefly in passing and The Hill turned it into a headline because they knew it would be controversial and piss people off.

The main point from Axelrod was that Obama opposed prop 8 all along and is happy about the court decision. Obama's position against gay marriage is dumb, but it's not like someone woke up and decided to campaign against gay marriage today.

[BurtWorm]

78. Did that question come to him out of the blue?

I think he chose his words before he went into the interview--or else he's the worst prepared political point guy in the history of the office.

[libnnc]

59. Change-a-Licious!

:eyes:

Er, thanks so much Mr. President, for the fierce support 'n all....

x(

[jsmandrake]

60. RACHEL TOOK HIM ON TONITE.....

I wish I could call Obama a mystery hidden in an enigma ---yet I feel he is much more obvious.
Maddow didn't have to say too much, JUST highlight his weirdness during this historical ruling.
Nuf said.....let the shame stick where it fits.

[laughingliberal]

71. Welcome. And bless her. eom

[Dragonfli]

61. What about equal rights exactly does he oppose?

Does he also oppose the rights of mixed race couples or does he only find gay couples to be less than human and thus requiring less than human rights rights?

Constitutional scholars used to have to learn the constitution.
Presidents used to at least have to pretend to defend the constitution (and not just for those that don't make you uncomfortable with some made up bigot deity)

[laughingliberal]

72. I'm thinking he opposes the part where the rights are equal. nt

[Ron Green]

63. It's COWARDLY. That's all.

Any reasonable person these days is perfectly happy to see people marry whom they wish.

To "oppose same-sex marriage" is political pandering and just cowardly.

[tomp]

64. tomp remains opposed to obama. nt

[BlueCheese]

65. That's just great.

Now he's sort of for gay marriage while he's against it. That makes sense--not.

The total lack of moral courage by prominent Democratic leaders on this issue is pathetic.

[AsahinaKimi]

66. The President

Swore an oath to uphold and protect the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The 14th amendment is part of that, and while his personal opinions maybe known, the oath supersedes it all. Unlike Geroge W. Bush, the Constitution and Bill of Rights is, to Obama, MORE than just " a piece of paper."

[scarface2004]

69. obama needs to understand

there is no middle ground...and he needs to get on our side and stop trying to appease the wackoz!

[jsmandrake]

96. "WACKOS" =ANOTHER WORD FOR HIS CORPORATE BASE

I'm a little tires of trying to rationalize Obama's decisions....thinking that he is being pulled to what we call the wacky side (radical right wing) against his will or because he is attempting consensus. Could be that that is his ultimate goal----and we refuse to admit it.
Thom Hartmann keeps reminding us that a Democratic President is the preferred choice if only because of the choices he will make for the Supreme Court. I struggle with this..,and the(easy)nomination of Kagan does not ease my mind.

[JoeyT]

73. He's either triangulating to win points with the right

at the expense of GLBT rights, or he's an unrepentant bigot.
Neither is good.

[krabigirl]

74. Of course he does. Why is anyone surprised?

[area51]

75. Your question of, "Why would anyone in the WH feel a need to say something like this?"

Obama's had a track record of kissing up to the right, no matter how many times he gets slapped down. They won't vote for him, even though he's keeping a lot of the Bush policies going.

[JerseygirlCT]

77. blech

Stupid, and unnecessarily hurtful.

I do not understand this position, period.

[WinkyDink]

79. It's called "hedging one's Electoral College bets."

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[golddigger]

81. This administration doesn't know when to

keep its mouth shut.

[bullwinkle428]

82. "Maybe the Republicans will love me NOW!!!"

[Utopian Leftist]

145. Exactly

:lol

I'm sure all of his spiritual advisers have been telling him to unite the country, but this is not the way.

[Eyerish]

83. I figured this would be the the WH stand on the issue...

But damn it if it still doesn't disappoint me....separate is not equal.

Shame on you President Obama.

[bigwillq]

85. Fierce

:eyes:

[Nye Bevan]

86. Shame on Obama and shame on the DUers defending him.

This is going to be one of those look-back-and-cringe things for Obama. Opposing gay marriage is as indefensible for Obama as owning slaves was for George Washington.

[Touchdown]

87. Wow. I think I missed this. K&R

:applause:

[mmonk]

88. Got to keep the culture war going for the DLC.

Stratergy ya know. 4 dimensional chess. Nothing too "librul".

[Warren DeMontague]

104. The spooky "values voter" is still 400 feet tall and has 12 heads.

Must. Cower. In. Terror. Of. Imaginary. Beast.

[mmonk]

130. Yep.

Cower and shake.:scared:

[Bluenorthwest]

90. The Democratic Party is calling me today to set up volunteer

time. I will be taking back my offer of time, and suggesting that they go get their volunteers from the Churches and centrists.

[dionysus]

91. now that's just a really dumb position.

[Bluenorthwest]

94. Dumb is a kind word for the bigotry being expressed

by the White House. Sure it is stupid, but it is also many things worse than that.

[Orsino]

97. Let's say rather the bigotry being pandered to by the White House.

I can't really believe that an intelligent Democrat actually wants to advocate for discrimination. This is just triangulation.

[Bluenorthwest]

164. Sorry, the President's stated opinion is bigoted

He advocates for discrimination. It is who he is. The excuse that he is lying is no defense at all, it just makes him more of a hypocrite than he already is.

[Orsino]

169. Lying is *not* an excuse or a defense...

...and understanding that the president's position is most likely a lie would seem to be vital to anyone interested in change.

My only question is whether, with sufficient cover from a majority, he would flip-flop. Arnie overruled a majority, but seems eager to run with the new ruling, for instance.

[leeroysphitz]

98. Change-alicious. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

99. Gotta keep pandering to those 'pukes!

Just wait until President Palin takes over!

[mzmolly]

101. "Why did anyone in the WH feel a need to say anything like this today of all days?"

I agree BW. I have no idea what they hope to gain from such insensitivity.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. And, he's

wrong.

[earth mom]

103. There you have it. Is anyone REALLY surprised? nt

[kenny blankenship]

105. Go Fuck Yourself, Mr. Cheney!

Oh wait, Dick Cheney isn't actually the President anymore. Sometimes I gets confused. For that matter it appears Cheney actually supports gay marriage.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/02/nation/na-cheney2

Strange times.

[terrya]

108. Unbelievable.

Yeah, we fucking get it. Obama is against same-sex marriage. Fine. Can't upset the Family Research Council, the Concerned Women of America, the American Family Association, the National Organization for Marriage, Pat Robertson, etc. No, heaven forbid they alienate those people.

If the 9th District Court upholds Walker's ruling, I'd just as soon I hear nothing from this administration in response. Because I'm sick and fucking tired of them letting us know about Obama's opposition to marriage equality.

And by the way, there is NO way you can have equality for gay people WITHOUT marriage equality. I don't know how people can be so clueless.

[madrchsod]

110. tap dancing through a minefield....

[Hosnon]

111. Major, major, fail.

But, I do believe this is all politics. I think the President personally supports gay marriage and feels confident enough with the direction things are moving regarding this issue to base his public position on nothing but political considerations.

Politically it is cowardice but it's not his call so he can, quite frankly, go to Hell on this issue.

[davidhilton]

119. I agree with you; his public stance on same-sex marriage is "all politics."

[gaspee]

113. He can go

fuck himself. Bigot.

I posted about my meeting him back during the Whitehouse/Chafee campaign. Thought he was a bigot ever since.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

148. Can you either post a link to the thread you made or message me the link?

I'd be interested in reading it.

Thanks in advance.

[davidhilton]

118. I'll wager, behind closed doors, Obama supports same-sex marriage

however, if he were make that claim publicly, he would lose a lot of the centric Christian vote. Just making a guess here . . .

[asdjrocky]

123. And God knows losing a few votes is the only thing that matters.

Civil right for all? Not nearly as important as not pissing off the fundies.

[LostinVA]

138. Then that makes his stance so much worse

It means he doesn't even have the courage of his conviction, no matter how wrong-footed it may be.

[Renew Deal]

149. test

:kick:

[northernlights]

168. I'd take that wager in a heartbeat

because if it was true, he would have been better off keeping his trap shut on it or saying well, it's up to the state...and keeping his trap shut on it.

That he chose 1. NOT to keep his trap shut, and 2. the specific day he chose to open his trap, together speaks volumes.

[JBoy]

120. Unfortunate he feels the need to pander to homophobes.

[QC]

146. Maybe he's not pandering. n/t

[southmost]

121. typical lukewarm DLC response

n/t,

[DeSwiss]

128. +1000!!!!!

n/t

[Frisbee]

122. Lose-Lose

His weak-ass position will not be enough to satisfy the right wingers who think gay marriage should be banned (what they REALLY think is probably a whole lot worse than that), and will piss off the left who think now is the time to move in to the 21st century on this issue and allow equal rights for everyone (and civil unions are NOT equal to marriage).

I'm beginning to think this supposed man who plays chess to everyone elses checkers would in actuality be hard pressed to win a game of tick-tack-toe against a pre-schooler.

[DeSwiss]

125. "The President Continues To Support Inequality"

/fixed


- K&R

[colsohlibgal]

127. Obama Still Doesn't Get It.

He won't go there while Ted Olson of all people is fighting for equal rights for all? Gay marriage is going to be a fact of life here despite the narrow mindedness of still too many people including, sadly our president. Equality is supposed to be for everybody, we shouldn't be able to pick and choose who we want to exclude.

[gateley]

129. He's entitled to his opinion, but it shouldn't be the determining factor in the law. He

probably isn't crazy about abortion, either, but... :shrug:

It doesn't MATTER what anyone's opinion is.

[mnhtnbb]

131. "an issue for the states" Doubt Obama would have felt that way in 1959

about civil rights for blacks in southern states. Would he?

[mdmc]

132. ..

[LostinVA]

139. Guess Virginia shouldn't have been sued in Virginia vs. Loving, either

:shrug:

[NorthCarolina]

133. He "supports equality" but opposes "marriage" equality????

Am I missing something? Are there different levels of "equality"? How do you achieve true equality while maintaining some aspects of inequality? Double speak, political expediency, WTF?? I simply do not follow this logic.:freak:

[Lucky 13]

134. Believes it's an issue for the states to decide?! Then he IS supporting Prop 8

despite claiming to find it "divisive and mean-spirited".

And like it or not, supporting Prop 8 in any way, whether directly or by default or through silence is HOMOPHOBIC.

By denying us marriage he is denying us ALL the legal rights that marriage confers.

Separate is not equal. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I find it harder and harder to make excuses for the President. I find it harder and harder to blindly repeat that he is in some way different and not homophobic. But as it stands right now, he is not on MY side. He is not fighting for MY rights.

[KamaAina]

142. "The president does oppose same-sex marriage, but he supports equality for gay and lesbian couples"

Does not compute.

According to strict logic, the only way that staement could evaluate as true is if there were no gay or lesbian couples. :eyes:

[jgraz]

143. Obama restating his opposition to LGBT civil rights on THIS DAY is just a cheap shot.

Seriously,, why does this guy feel the need to kick the crap out of his (former) supporters? :banghead:

[Blue_In_AK]

151. For a constitutional law professor

he doesn't seem to have a complete grasp of the "equal protection under the law" business.

[Subdivisions]

152. It's very interesting to note who is not commenting in this thread. You should

be ashamed of yourself, Mr. President.

[Zhade]

153. What a bigoted assholish stance for him to take.

There, cleaned it up for the whiners.

[OKDem08]

158. I thought I voted for a visionary but he's just a politician n/t

[Bluebear]

159. Donnie McClurkin was just the opening act.

[Bluebear]

174. .

[sendero]

160. Obama is opposed to ....

... taking a stand on anything that might piss anyone off. Except a progressive, they brought him to the party but he won't even dance with them.

[KoKo]

162. That's quite a "Take Back." Obama wants to signal that Politically he doesn't Support Gay Marriage.

but he's happy that "Prop 8" was overturned?

:eyes:

[RainDog]

165. just goes to show that "triangulation" makes you look like an ass

there is no way to have health care and insurance control over Americans' health, either.

that's the giant sucking sound of triangulation fail you hear as liberals ask the Democratic party what happened to their spines.

[gaiangreentree]

167. states powers

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/07/18/whos_defending_states_rights/

Nearly all of the bigoted arguments against marriage in the last couple of decades and also almost all of the arguments for marriage rights have been with the presumption that the federal government had almost no role with determining or recognizing marriage. It is not for mere political triangulation that a constitutional scholar would argue that marriage is to be defined by the states.. it is a serious departure for the federal government to define marriage. We don't have federal drivers licenses, or federal age of consent laws or... all manner of other laws that are applied unequally to members of different states. What this judge has right is that prop. 8 took the step of illegally discriminating by gender. Most people have argued that sexual orientation and gender were not the same thing. Obama sees constitutionally protected from discrimination by gender and sexual orientation as being two different things on a legal basis. He may lack courage or he may lack vision but this isn't triangulation.

This judge is brilliantly right, and Obama is a conservative not willing to be depart from stare decisis... but making both sides angry is not political triangulation.

[friedgreentomatoes]

171. This is what he will say during his first term.

If he is re-elected, his tune might change.

[Bluebear]

173. hahahahahaha --It's only been 3 months, a year, two years, a term.

Whatever, Mr. President!

[kiranon]

172. So he's in favor of civil unions for everyone and religious marriages

for those who wish them or can get them but the religious services will carry no civil benefits. Is this what the President is saying while not saying it and pandering to the anti gay Prop 8 supporters? Someone needs to invent a GPS for political spin.