How did communism come about?

[ck4829]

I'm pretty sure that teabaggers and freepers think it came from that guy with scary looking biker beard must have smoked a joint, came up with a villainous economic system, and said "And I shall call it Marxism. Muhahaha!"

No, during the time Marx was around, he saw communism as a viable alternative to the practices of the day. People working long hours for virtually nothing, dangerous working conditions, and no matter how hard you worked, the guy in the plush leather chair who didn't even have to lift a finger gets all the money from your labor. "Oh, and here's a penny for you. Now get out of here, you peasant."

Cut to 2010; we've got thousands of people in line for 10 job openings and we've got potential workers willing to work more hours and for less pay, but employers still say "I don't want to hire because it'll mean I'll have to cut from my measly multimillion dollar bonuses and I might have to give myself a paycut down from being paid only 300 times more than my workers."

Now, I'm not advocating a revolution or even communism in any form, but why shouldn't capitalist leaders be compelled to defend capitalism instead of just giving us the thought terminating cliche of "It may not be perfect, but it's the best system we've got", just how is that so?

Employers can wait before they start hiring, but the last time I checked; paying rent, groceries, utilities, medical bills, etc. don't take a rain check because you can't pay. And it's time for Wall Street and the government to acknowledge that.

[jody]

1. One place to start is the works of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. Communism & Fascism both

acknowledge him.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. The mixed market seems to work well. We should get back to that.

[ck4829]

4. That really is the solution

Let the tax cuts on the wealthy expire
Bring back regulations
Protect consumers
And an employer of last resort

[The_Commonist]

3. "Communism" didn't come about.

It has never actually been tried.
Oh sure, the Soviets forced a bunch of people into farming communes, but that's not the same as "Communism."
There is nothing at all "Communist" about China today.

We might actually be at the point where Capitalism is about to implode and crush itself under its own weight.
At that point, the conditions for Communism might be there.
People will band together, or die.
However, we've been so brutally propagandized in this country, that anything that sounds even remotely like "Communism" will be soundly rejected.

Signed,
The_Commonist
Who believes we need to pursue "Commonizm," which begins with the notion that we are all in this together...

[BeFree]

5. Actually, we have Soviet style communism right here.

The Soviets perfected the top down rule of government and we all called it communism.

We have that here, today. The elites have created a top down ruling system that allows them to make decisions for us from behind their closed doors.

True communism would mean that communal decisions were being made. Decisions made in the open with all the community involved.

The Soviets, as the PTB are wont to do, corrupted it and our government has adopted it as their own. Only here we call it republicanism.

[RKP5637]

12. I think you're quite correct, we just call it something else. We are suppressed, controlled.

manipulated and propagandized a lot now in this country. Americans have been bred to accept what we have as the best in the world.

We call it capitalism, but is has morphed into a subdued and apathetic population subjugated, manipulated, controlled and propagandized by a ruling class of wealthy oligarchs. In short, many Americans are brainwashed and react in their own worst interest.

[Imajika]

7. Keep dreaming...

"At that point, the conditions for Communism might be there."

Where upon it will fail yet again.

"It has never actually been tried."

It's been tried countless times in countless places and the result is abysmal failure always. It's still being tried and continues to predictably fail. Cuba = Fail. Laos = Fail. North Korea = Epic Fail.

This ideology will never, ever work. It tries to utterly defy human nature instead of harness it, requires more and more coercion over time to keep the system in place, and is simply unworkable and every bite at the utopian apple results in mass death, starvation and general failure.

Mixed economies work best. They are not perfect at all, but they are our best option at this time. Communism is not an option at all, and no, the conditions are not ripe for another stab at it.

[pretzel4gore]

8. nonsense. rightwingers talk too much

that's a fact even the rightwing stooge rosh limbah (aka bob loblaw) won't deny

[The_Commonist]

11. Keep dreaming?

Well, it's not MY dream.

I have a good friend who just graduated from medical school in Cuba.
According to her, for the most part, the people of Cuba like their lives there.
The system works for people.
Of course, that doesn't mean there are no problems.
However, the biggest problem that Cuba has has been the way they have been treated by the United States.
If Cuba was allowed to trade and interact with the U.S. it might actually be a worker's paradise.
And that scares the shit out the capitalists more than anything else, hence our negative treatment of that country.

North Korea is not and has never been a communist country. You fail.
I don't know enough about Laos to comment.

And I like the way that you repeat that old canard about it "being against human nature." Yawn!
Human nature is a lot of things. It is not only greed and blind self-interest.
It is also compassion and enlightened self-interest.
Despite what Ayn Rand has told you.
Capitalism has grown to mainly "harness" the worst in us.

And yes, mixed markets seem to work the best.
Again, CommUnism is not my dream, it was a 19th century dream that a certain class of dictators seized upon to control the masses in countries that were not ready for it in the first place.
This country, right now, is at the state that Marx was talking about.

And again, we need some new vision, that takes into account that "The Commons" belong to all of us, we all depend upon them, and we need to come up with a system that is good for people, not just good for corporations...

[maryf]

19. It tries to utterly defy human nature instead of harness it

seems to me its the nature of Euro races if its valid at all that fits in with that old argument. When push comes to shove most people realize that joining together works much better...from each according to ability, to each according to need, sounds like the best of humanity to me...

"Human nature" is a social construct, I think, created by the rulers to oppress...

[proteus_lives]

22. +10,000

[Radical Activist]

16. Communism has been tried a number of times.

We should be honest with ourselves that those countries and others made attempts at communism, even though they failed to achieved anything closely resembling it. The lesson is that giving enough power to any central ruling authority to create a communist society is just as likely to be used for the creation of something vastly different.

We have also seen many times that the conditions which are supposed to bring about communist revolution are just as likely to bring about something much worse. Conservative corporate leaders have shown themselves to be far better at using a crisis to achieve their goals than Marxists have. Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein was a conclusive study of that reality.

Waiting for a Marxist revolution to usher in a dictatorship of the proletariat has proven to be a failed strategy at reaching the end goals of communism.

[ixion]

6. Communism is simply puffed up tribalism

you have a group of people who pool their resources and/or skills to survive.

That concept is tens-of-thousands of years old.

[whyverne]

14. Right! We all came from tribes and they were communistic.

Everything went in the common pool. That's why I laugh when somebody says communism doesn't work. We wouldn't be here if it didn't work. Maybe capitalism is better, but that's not my argument.

[maryf]

18. you have a group of people who pool their resources

sounds good to me...Isn't it interesting that our government system is based on a communistic type of society, the Iroquois?? (they forgot the part that the Hags had the last say when they co-opted it, but that's another discussion). If we truly had adopted their system where there was no private property, we'd be in great shape.

[H2O Man]

25. industrial communalism

[blindpig]

9. Capitalism was indefensible then and it still is.

There was a time in our recent past when Capital was compelled to provide a veneer of decency in order to compete with the socialist example. No longer, can there be any doubt that Capitalism really upped the ante the moment that socialism collapsed? What we are experiencing is not any perversion of Capitalism but Capitalism pure and simple.Capitalism necessitates communism.

[LostinVA]

10. Democratic Socialism is to way to go

imo

[Cleita]

23. I agree. You don't want the government to

do everything. However, there are institutions that involve human rights that should be government run and taxpayer funded, like we used to have. I really don't like this race to privatization. Every where it has been tried in the world it has failed. I'm especially dismayed that prisons are being run by private companies and they have their eyes on our public school system next. Oh, btw they don't mind taking taxpayer's money for it. I say any industry that needs tax payer money to function needs to be nationalized and run by the government. We don't need the middle man there.

[Davis_X_Machina]

13. 34 BCE...

...when the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

Acts 4:32

[TBF]

15. I recommend reading Engels and Lenin -

little easier to get through. "Imperialism" by Lenin is particularly helpful in understanding the current situation here at home. Also read the Manifesto itself. Many openly mock it without ever having read it.

[Radical Activist]

17. You fail to mention the other option of democratic socialism

which has many examples of success.

Conservatives want to frame the debate as "Communism v. Capitalism." They know it's an argument they'll win every time because of how communism is viewed by the American public. There's a reason that third option is never the focus of discussion.

[Cleita]

20. Actually, it goes back to the Stone Age.

Tribes or bands of humans hunted and gathered together and shared everything. That way the youngest and the eldest got their fair share of the bounty. There are pockets of tribal people, even today, like in the Amazon and Papua New Guinea who still practice this type of communal economy.

[DailyGrind51]

21. According to Acts 4:32, the early Christian church practiced "communism"!

Acts 4:32. And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul. Neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed was his own: but all things were common unto them.

http://www.newadvent.org/bible/act004.htm

[Cleita]

24. Actually, a lot of Christian institutions are still

communistic. All your monasteries and convents are. There are religious communities like the Amish, Mennonites and some Quakers that are still communistic. Even the Mormon Church started out with a foot in that commune type of living where the idea of tithing came about to not only fund churches and temples but to help out the poor and desperate in their community. Unfortunately, the business types took over and they are not so charitable any more.

[DailyGrind51]

26. A few Evangelical communities and Jewish kibbutzes are "communist" in structure.

[maryf]

29. that's a keeper...

thanks...

[Starry Messenger]

27. Communal life is the natural form of human society.

Capitalism sold "human nature=greed" as a projection of its own rewarding of sociopathic behavior. It's the ultimate snake-oil sale. Each country that tried to re-form under socialist lines was immediately attacked and subverted in various brutal ways by the western forces allied behind anti-communism. It's easy to declare yourself the winner of the fight when you've struck first and kneecapped everyone who could possibly undermine your scam.

[Cleita]

28. Yes, because we are after all primates who live in

communal groups. It is our way in nature. We should accommodate that in our civilizations.