Mall implements 'youth escort policy'

[onehandle]

Source: ABC/WCPO

CINCINNATI - As you walk through the doors at Tri-County Mall on a Friday or Saturday night you'll now see security guards checking identification for everyone who looks under 25. It's all part of the new Youth Escort Policy. The new rules require anyone under the age of 18 to have an escort with them 21 years of age or older. The policy applies every Friday and Saturday from 4 p.m. to close.

Management at Tri-County Mall says it should make for a more pleasant shopping experience for their customers. "Being youth, and being in large numbers unsupervised, they tend to get loud and rowdy and detract from a comfortable shopping atmosphere.,” said General Manager Michael Lyons. To enforce the rules, there will be extra security at every entrance of the mall.

Some customers say the new rules are not necessary, while others agree with what mall management is trying to do. "To this extent? Wristbands and security at every door, it's not fair. It's not right,” said 18 year-old Jahnise Bowie. "Doing nothing but hanging out that that can be disruptive and therefore I'm ok with that part of it. But on the other hand, if you have a teenager that is here to shop, and that person is here to just pick up an item or two, I think he or she should be able to do that as well," said customer Derwin Jamison.

Management says they understand not everyone will be thrilled with the new policy, however the long-term effect on mall business should be positive.

Read more: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_north_cincinnati/mall-implements-'youth-escort-policy'

[pnwmom]

1. If I were a parent I'd be boycotting that mall. n/t

[Darth_Kitten]

2. Why? No more free babysitter for parents with rowdy children?

n/t

[pnwmom]

17. I never sent children to a mall for babysitting. And my parents never sent me.

But learning to go shopping by oneself is part of growing up. All teens should be learning this.

[burnsei sensei]

50. In my mid and late teens, the mall was a

wonderful place. I always bought something, even if it was just a small drink.
I learned to love people watching.
I learned much at the mall.
This is a bad law.
It demonstrates bad faith in youth.

[surrealAmerican]

105. It's not a law.

Malls are private property, and can make whatever rules they please.

I agree that this is a bad rule. They ought to be addressing the behavior if it's a problem, not restricting access based on age.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Only they aren't shopping

[pnwmom]

82. Who's the "they"? Are you referring to the more mature "mall walkers"?

I know they aren't shopping. (They get there before the stores even open.)

But teens ARE shopping, and they're stopping at the food places in between the stores. Ask the people at the pretzel place, or the cookie or ice-cream place, if teens are an important part of their clientele. Or ask Old Navy, or the Gap, or a video game store, or one of countless other stores. Teens have money and they do shop.

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. I'd ask but I stopped going to the malls

because of the packs of teenagers who were there not shopping. :)

[pnwmom]

94. How do you know they weren't shopping? Were you following them around?

You don't have to be buying things every minute to be "shopping." What about adults who "window shop"? Should they be banned, too?

The funny thing is, malls are specifically designed to increase the likelihood that people will want to hang around. And then people complain that they do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. It was hard to miss their running and knocking folks over

But if you did, the yelling and screaming was hard to ignore.

That's not shopping - last time I checked.

[pnwmom]

98. How do you know they didn't buy something at a food place? Or buy something

before or after you saw them running and yelling?

The problem with your mall isn't teenagers in general -- it's a few ill-behaved teens and poor security.

(Are you really afraid of the girls in the mall? Do you think it's fair to throw all of them out because of a few ill-behaved boys?)

[RadiationTherapy]

134. Alex and his droogs out causing a bit of a ruckus, yeeesss?

Quite a bit of a ruckus, young alex, yeeeesss, quiiiiite aaaaaa RUCKUS!

[edgineered]

171. and all of my hard work ruined n/t

[Radical Activist]

106. Do they also keep getting on your lawn?

[jberryhill]

124. True - many on on their break from working there /nt

[WinkyDink]

130. Yes, 17-yr-olds need babysitters. *eyeroll*

[Darth_Kitten]

148. You don't get the point.....((((eyeroll)))))

n/t

[napi21]

4. Why? If your child want's to go shopping, you o with them.

It's really that simple.

I will tell you that I, as a 67 yo lady won't go shopping at the Mall in our area mainly because of the large number of roudy teens that just hang out there every weekend evening.

[pnwmom]

18. No, it's really not that simple. You don't just suddenly send your 18 year old

off to live as an adult. You give them lots of age appropriate experience first. Learning to conduct themselves in public without their parents is something all teens should be doing.

[napi21]

29. That's true and they are perfectly capable of shopping before 4 PM

at that mall. I really am sorry that the responsible teens have to suffer for the actions of some ohers, but isn't that something we all have to learn as well? All restrictions come about because of someones bad behavior and if there are enough bad behavers, the rest of us have to suffer the restrictions along with them.

[pnwmom]

46. No, they're not. School doesn't let out until 3:30 -- and that's only for the kids

who don't have sports or other activities. And on weekends, what is wrong with a kid going to a 7 o' clock movie at the mall? This is really ridiculous.

Are all adults restricted from shopping because some are guilty of shoplifting? No, and responsible kids shouldn't be punished for the actions of others either.

[X_Digger]

62. Send the special snowflake to the mall Saturday _morning_. n/t

[pnwmom]

65. No, I think the special snowflakes who can't stand to be around teens

should be the ones to stay home.

[Fastcars]

167. It Appears....

Enough people don't want to shop with crowds of rowdy teams the mall decided that it makes economic sense to implement these rules. If enough people disagree with the rules and quit going to the mall to spend money then it will have proven to be the wrong decision. If the stores make more money, whether more people show up or not, then it will be the correct decision. It is their mall so I don't see any thing wrong with trying it.

[edgineered]

173. exactly, no sense in creating a customer base

for more than 20 years i lived just outside the city limits of naples, fl and never spent a cent within their city limits

a woman on the beach did not like that my daughter had collected starfish, even though they were still alive in a pail of water. i said if there was a law against it, i would put them back, otherwise, my daughter wants them and we are keeping them.

the police were called and the officer told me it was against the law. the starfish went back in the gulf. a short time later i observed the woman and the cop in a 'more than friendly' embrace and knew i had been scammed.

the next morning i called the florida marine patrol and asked of the legality. they laughed at me, saying the law applies to some shellfish, starfish are not shellfish. needless to say, my next call was to the duty sergeant (who stated he knew this was going to happen)

So go ahead, kick them out. They'll forget all about it and come running back someday. And in another 15 or so years they will start dropping their children at your doorstep. Oh, wait a minute. Kids aren't allowed - forgot. Good luck to you merchants, may your customer base live forever and never need replacing.

[TexasObserver]

170. Start your own mall if that's how you feel.

The one in question is owned by someone else and they have a different plan. So do their customers.

It's easy to say "but the teens need the mall," if one doesn't have to put up with the misconduct many of them bring. Rather than criticize the mall for taking an action most of its adult customers will appreciate, why don't you start an after school center for teens and run it from your home? If you're really that concerned about teens having a place after school, that is.

Or, start your own mall if you don't like the policy limiting unescorted children.

[Occulus]

177. What does the 3-11 shift parent do?

For that matter, what does the 11-7 shift parent do?

[X_Digger]

182. Not the mall's problem.

It isn't a public service, acting as an adjunct babysitting / entertainment service for teens.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

79. All the malls I've been in have outside entry's, so you don't need to go "in" the mall at all.

[pnwmom]

81. So all the people who are afraid of bumping into teens can use those doors?

Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

But the mall I go to has outside entries for only a handful of "anchor" stores. All the rest, including the ice cream shop and other food spots, can only be accessed from inside.

[1monster]

77. It's not just the malls, it is literally a war on kids. In one town I know, they are

trying to ban kids under 18 from down town after 5:00.

There are some kids who cause trouble, but a very small minority of them. So, of course, ALL kids must be banned.

[pnwmom]

86. That is just nuts. n/t

[jberryhill]

123. But you'll miss the sales at Gap, Aeropostale, Hot Topic, A&F....

I'm 47 and I don't go to the mall because most of the businesses there seem to be specifically oriented to teens in the first place.

[davidinalameda]

6. if you were a parent

I'd boycott that mall as well

I wouldn't want your little animals running rampant

[Posteritatis]

8. Because clearly everyone under voting age is an "animal." (nt)

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

52. Technically, people under the voting age are animals.

As are people equal to or over the voting age.

[pnwmom]

59. True. It shouldn't be an insult, but it is. n/t

[pnwmom]

19. Oh yeah. My "little animal" who's in grad school in engineering now?

Or my "little animal" who's in the Peace Corps?

They learned to be independent of me by having age-appropriate independent experiences. They didn't suddenly become adults at age 18. I started dropping them off at the mall or the movies when they were 12 -- just as I learned to walk into town myself at the same age. In suburbs, the mall has become the de facto town square. Teens shouldn't be excluded from the mall anymore than they should from the town's streets. If this means hiring more mall security, then so be it. You shouldn't punish all teens for the actions of a few.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Butch350]

53. All little animals are not like yours - get it?

[pnwmom]

58. No. The person specifically referred to my children as "little animals." Get it? n/t

[Obamanaut]

113. And there are others whose 'little animals' do not know how to conduct

themselves, who perhaps did not get 'age-appropriate independent experiences.'


Not everyone attempts to blow up airplanes, but all passengers now are inconvenienced because a small number did. So it goes.


Thus, the new rule. The misdeeds of the few affect the many.

[bitchkitty]

48. If you were a shop owner you'd be applauding it. n/t

[pnwmom]

60. Not the shop owners and food place owners that cater to teens.

And there are many of them.

[1monster]

78. Two business in one mall lost so much of their business after teens were banned from

the mall unless accompanied by an adult that they left and opened for business in a stand alone building. That mall is ailing and has been since the mid '80s. Seems to me that you don't chase away customers when business is bad.

[pnwmom]

83. It would have made much more sense for them to hire more security. n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

152. To be babysitters?

The problem isn't with all teens but I really don't think it should be the malls responsibility to teach kids how to behave in public.

[JonLP24]

184. No

To enforce rules that are broken. Make rules for horseplay and kick people out if they violate that rule.

[baldguy]

3. Sounds like a good way to eliminate your customer base.

[seattleblue]

7. Those "customers" aren't buying anything.

They are just annoying those that are trying to buy something.

[Downwinder]

11. You can look at the amount of advertising directed at teens.

This shows you how important they are as a customer base.

[Capitalocracy]

16. It's true, the numbers back that up

They spend their parents' money faster than their parents do. As a matter of fact, after visiting the U.S., my wife who's from Argentina said what, there's nothing for kids under 21 to do but shop?

[Capitalocracy]

15. They're not there to work. They're not there to shop.

They're just there.



Actually, I'm not so sure you're right. I mean, who can take down overpriced soda and bite-size corn dogs in honey mustard sauce faster than 17-year-olds?

[pnwmom]

20. Who says? My teens had money when they went to the mall, just as I did

when I was a teen and walked around downtown.

[Downwinder]

10. Fifteen years ago, they ran all of the cruisers off the drag here.

Shopping died, for that and other reasons. For the last four years they have been having Friday night concerts, trying to get them to come back. Its not happening.

[apocalypsehow]

159. They did the same in my hometown, and it simply drove the teens into the countryside or private

homes to do their partying and carousing. It was a silly policy, but cruising the main drag is a different issue from having to wade through unruly mobs of teenagers with attitudes, many of them looking for a fight, in the Malls where adults are trying to shop in peace. So I have to agree with this Mall's policy.

It was about fifteen years ago they instituted that "no cruising" law aimed at teens in my hometown, too, so that must have been one of those trendy nationwide fads among municipalities.

[PfcHammer]

5. Mall has always been a good place to catch a nice throw down over the weekend

[ingac70]

9. A couple of the malls where I live had to do this.

It got to the point that there were fights every weekend, and everyone else quit shopping.

[Sherman A1]

12. Same here

and from the reports store sales have increased.

[emilyg]

13. Some of my malls did this. I like it.

[masshole]

14. Mall retailers here don't like the policy

Our local "big" mall instituted an 18 and younger ban (without escort) at 6pm about a year or so ago. Two of my kids work at different stores in the mall, both say most everyone especially the kiosk operators and youth-oriented stores, are against the ban. The only good part they say is the increase in doofy, big-hat wearing, poorly-trained mall cops to laugh at.

[hlthe2b]

22. I think there are better ways to handle the problem...

though I do agree that large groups of rowdy teens can be a problem at times and mall supervisors have reason to do something. But, there are plenty of responsible teens working in the mall and I think this sends a pretty lousy message to them.

[pnwmom]

28. Right. It sends the lousy message that all teens will be punished because of the

actions of a few.

[X_Digger]

183. That's life. Why can't I buy more than one package of sudafed?

Because meth-cookers were snatching them up.

Such is life.

[JonLP24]

185. That was a bullshit provision

of the Patriot Act. Dennis Kucinich and other progressives voted against it. You have a right to complain about that too and get your elected leaders to change it.

Just because it is the way it is doesn't make it right. I'm sure you never advocated for a policy change of any kind.

[X_Digger]

186. It was a comment on the 'a few people screw it up for the rest of us' statement.

It's a general principle that gets repeated in many contexts. This one (the OP) had nothing to do with public policy by government.

No, it's not 'fair'- but life rarely is.

[JonLP24]

187. Like I said

It doesn't make it right. Also the fact that there are issues that exist is not a reason to withdraw from criticizing. I know it had nothing to do with the Government which is why public policy of any kind.

"No, it's not 'fair'- but life rarely is."

So what? I will still complain when it isn't.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Mixed feelings about this

My late wife was "harassed" briefly until she dropped one of the mall rats, so I see the point. However, its that same age group that spends like there is no tomorrow. I would think heightened patrols with younger security guards might work better. It has elsewhere.

[izquierdista]

23. The Mall's running an escort service?

How much for a precocious 14-year old? I would have thought that sort of thing would be frowned upon, but I guess with the economy the way it is, they have to do something to bring in the money.

[Synicus Maximus]

24. It's private property and they have made a business decision.

If it hurts business they will change the policy, if it helps they will keep it.

[pnwmom]

26. Right. And I would have made a business decision, as a parent, to boycott them. n/t

[depakid]

41. Sounds discriminatory to me

and like most discrimination, born of fear- which is rampant in America on seemingly every front.

[pnwmom]

44. Born of fear and fostered by people who want to take advantage of that fear. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. Er, aren't many mall retail EMPLOYEES in this age range?

[pnwmom]

27. Lots of 16 and 17 year olds work in the malls. n/t

[onehandle]

103. That was my first thought. My first job was in a mall. I was 14.

I lied. You had to be 15 to work in our state if you were going to school.

[madmom]

32. If there were something for kids to do besides hang out at the mall... Around here

they closed the roller rink, theater is in the mall, the YMCA costs to much, closed the pools. The only thing around here are churches and bars, what's a kid to do?

[Posteritatis]

38. The clear answer is 3:30pm curfews!

Some dumbshits actually tried calling for those in my neck of the woods a few times, usually around election times since the conservatives campaign mainly on artificial crime statistics.

We're lucky right now - nasty neighborhood near mine's starting to clean up after they started up a really nice community centre-sort of thing there and the senior-scaring got ugly enough in the last election that I think people are actually feeling guilty about their attitudes towards kids - but it depresses me how common the attitude is that anyone under the age of twenty-five or so should just be presupposed to be a criminal or worse. Especially when it's defended with BS arguments about everyone being everyone else's keeper.

[pnwmom]

42. We just had a supposedly "gang-related" shooting in a family park near us.

Two people were killed, 6 wounded. Several guns were found. It all started with a fistfight and a shot fired into the air -- supposedly to break up the fight.

So we need to protect ourselves against these horrible teens, right? Only it turns out that one of the shooter/victims was a 34 year old married father of 4. The other was age 30.

I guess we need to require parental escorts for anyone under 40 now?

[Posteritatis]

49. Ooh, you've found my current favorite rant button on the subject

The usual response in your situation by people waving the fear signs around is to talk about those adults as though they're half their current age or less, because everyone always likes unreasonable attacks on kids who, as we all know, are More Evil Than Ever these days and a monolithic group of troublemakers who don't have any rights despite what law and the judiciary says at length.

For provoking me into giving forth on this subject, you shall receive an example:

There's this laughable parody of a gang war going on in my city, on and off for the last couple years.

Well, sort of in the city - so far out along one of the less populated edges that the neighborhoods in question might as well be rural half the time. I say 'laughable parody' because it's extraordinarily inept: there's more gunplay than I'm comfortable with, but it's all resulted in one guy, one of the gang leaders, getting lightly wounded several times, with most of the rest of the incidents missing the very planet the shooters stood on.

It's also a 'laughable parody' because one group of these wannabe gangster types call themselves the Mob despite the fact that they're wifebeater-wearing meth peddlers at worst most of the time. Oh yeah, and the youngest among them that I know of is in his mid-thirties, with the rest being closer to the guys' parents' ages.

Obviously something like that actually is a genuine problem. It's been absorbing a lot of the police attention for the last few years and utterly rightly so. But anyone with even a little bit of an attention span who's heard about it - and with the howling across the local news the only way one couldn't hear about the situation is if they're already dead - knows that it's largely being perpetrated by a bunch of middle-aged people swinging on each other in what's basically a family feud with a little meth and lot of really bad aim added in.

Fast-forward to our recent provincial election last summer, one of those really wonderful ones that makes the franchise feel actually worth it because all three major parties went in with a decent shot at winning. (I have political issues with my province, but looking at the returns in most elections you can see that everyone's vote counts, with ridings mostly being tightly contested and won by some pretty thin margins at times. It's great.) The Conservatives weren't in the best of shape during the campaign, because their being defeated on a budget bill is what brought about the election in the first place. Conservative party in politically shaky straits, so they do the same thing Republicans do in the US - start a campaign based mainly on fear and attack ads.

The attack ads were largely a joke, ineptly done, cases of pots calling kettles black at the best of times, and culminating in the Conservative leader accusing the NDP leader of being a car thief during a debate a couple of days before the final vote. The fear stuff, however, was a pretty constant barrage of scared-senior howling focusing on Kids These Days And Why They Must Be Stopped. They very heavily invoked the debacle going on in Spryfield, suggested it was a provincewide problem of terrible severity - it isn't - and, as one immediate solution, promised that if elected they would enact a curfew on all minors provincewide and fine their parents thousands of dollars if they were caught out after it. To stop the thirty-, forty- and fiftysomethings from shooting at each other, you see.

Unusually for that sort of thing, people actually saw through it and the election, uh, was not the Conservatives' best showing ever to say the least. The fact that they even tried, and that at least some people took it seriously, though? Ugh.

[pnwmom]

57. Are you in Canada? England? I guess teens are the new "wedge" group,

exploited as a way to increase fear and turn the focus away from the powers that are the real danger to all of us.

[Posteritatis]

63. Canada, and yep, they are

The federal conservatives are playing the same game up here right now, responding to a report saying that crime of all types has been dropping in Canada for years by dismissing the report as, I shit you not, the Liberal Party's lies. It'd be funny if it wasn't so infuriating.

[Darth_Kitten]

146. Come to my Canadian city, 13 year olds run with gangs, steal cars and kill people.....and...

there are 5 to 7 year olds who like to set fires to people's homes. In the middle of the night, too...

the problem is YES, the parents, but these stupid excuses for parents are almost never held accountable because of their children's ages, and because the "parents" are usually so beyond unfit they don't give a fuck.

[boppers]

161. What's a kid to do?... uhm, homework?

Reading? Writing? Something that has nothing to do with vapid consumerism?

[Ian David]

33. I used to be a mall security guard.

Generally, if I would just tell them, "you're scaring the old people," they'd laugh and comply with my instructions to keep it down or move along.

[JerseygirlCT]

140. I think too often people are afraid to just talk to kids.

Even if that means talking to them firmly if they are misbehaving.

[Gaedel]

149. Like the "Mall Ninja"?

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

[defendandprotect]

35. New efforts to brand anyone under 18 as "juvenile delinquent" ... "fear our youth!!" ...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Nanny state. What, say you? It's not nanny state because a private corporation isn't the State?

Well, it de facto is, these days.

[Posteritatis]

39. And it's not like the state isn't a fan of this sort of thing half the time. (nt)

[Book Lover]

37. You know what? Turn this around

It gets the kids out away from the idea that the only place to hang out is a commercial venture. Get them out of the "Buy, Buy, Goddamit BUY!" atmosphere. Let them find places not focused on making a buck to entertain themselves. Think of the mall as a capitalist pit of poison.

[Downwinder]

40. But, but, but, consumers are 70% of the economy.

Have to teach them to be consumers.

[pnwmom]

47. My kids didn't actually spend much time at the mall. But they did buy their own

clothes, and go to movies at the mall. Those are very appropriate things for teens to do on their own. They shouldn't have needed me as an escort.

[pnwmom]

45. We don't give teens a lot of places to go. In small towns, they can hang out

together in the downtowns. Malls have become our de facto town squares.

[JerseygirlCT]

142. Well, as I say below

even the downtowns have been discouraging their presence. Somehow kids standing around, just talking, is seen as a problem.

[Lorien]

100. I have to agree. I spent my Summers at the public library, the park, at my friend's home

the dollar theater, just walking around the neighborhood with my dog or drawing and painting at home. The mall was where you went before school started and before the Holidays. That was it. By the time my sister was a teen the mall turned into the local hangout for girls her age. She was obsessed with consuming to such a degree that she was arrested for shoplifting several times. The message they see there, nonstop, is not a healthy one. We need to work on preserving places like libraries and parks so that the mall is not the only option in town.

[JerseygirlCT]

141. I'd be all in favor of that

But where? I don't see very many communities willing or able to fund skate parks, or music venues (coffeehouses with music, perhaps) where kids could go for cheap or free - not in this economic environment especially.

Even though my town sponsors Wednesday night concerts, the music is aimed at the old folks (and those with little taste, I'd add!) and they do all they can to keep the kids away from the green while it's happening. One local church hosts concerts with local bands/artists playing, which is great. But that's one night in a month when they're able to get it all working. And they are very short on space.

For most of the kids around here, nothing to do is a huge complaint. The mall's not all that exciting, but it's often all there is.

[pnwmom]

43. The Rethugs want to turn teens into the next wedge group

since they're having less and less success turning gays and minority groups into pariahs.

We shouldn't let them.

[Soylent Brice]

51. papers please!

Welcome to the nati.

[lib2DaBone]

54. Sounds like a gigantic waste of time.

The kids will find somewhere else to go.. the businesses will lose. Typical Republicans at work.

[DAMANgoldberg]

55. There is nothing at that mall...

that is exclusive to Cincinatti, or even that end of the Metro, so unless other malls follow, it will not have the effect they are looking for.

[pnwmom]

61. Exactly. They'll lose more business than they'll gain. If my teens had to have me

with them every time they needed to buy clothes, they would have figured a way to do without. And taking me with them when they went to a movie with a friend? No way!

[PFunk]

56. I wonder how long before nearby mails start advertising that they don't have this policy...

... in order to get those from that mall who are PO'd by it. Just sayng.

[JCMach1]

64. Are we turning into Saudi Arabia...

seriously :wtf:

[X_Digger]

66. I like it.

I've already given up going to movie theaters because the disrespectful little shits can't shut up, can't turn off their electronic gadgets, and can't sit still for two hours.

It'd be nice to be able to actually go to the mall without having to dodge clueless packs of teen and tweenie giggling girls walking with their heads down texting each other, or dodge packs of hormone crazed bantam roosters strutting and cackling, trying to get the attention of the aforementioned packs of gigglers.

[Odin2005]

69. OMG, Call the WAAAAAHmbulance!

I'm sure your parents said the same thing about your peers when you were teens. :eyes:

[X_Digger]

71. No, my peers and I..

could go to the movies (or the mall) without creating a ruckus. If I'd embarrassed my parents, I'dve gotten a smack to the back of the head- same with my peers. (Any parent, any head- didn't matter if it was your kid or not in my circle.)

We were treated like adults, we were expected to act like adults.

[Odin2005]

72. And so are kids today.

I highly doubt things were any different then. Older people always seem to assume the current young generation are broken and degenerate. :eyes:

[X_Digger]

73. Have you been to a large, busy mall on a Friday or Saturday night?

The wife and I went to a restaurant attached to a mall here in Dallas a couple of weeks ago (maybe a month), then decided to check out a few stores- it was utter chaos, with screaming and hollering teens, at least one fist fight, and more than one bump from an oblivious teen texting.

[Odin2005]

74. I have NEVER seen a fight at the local mall. The teens at the mall are well behaved.

It's probably a location thing (Dallas? LOL!!!) not an age thing, I'm in Fargo and we seem to be a lot more civilized here then elsewhere in the country, teens included.

[X_Digger]

75. Who knows.. wasn't like that in Virginia in the 70's, either. n/t

[Odin2005]

76. Or maybe Dallas just sucks!

:P

[pnwmom]

89. That could be the problem.

:shrug:

[madinmaryland]

119. Wait a second, my friend. The DALLAS COWBOYS are America's team!!

:D

[Odin2005]

143. Cowbabies SUCK!

:P

[madinmaryland]

154. You are a Vikings fan???

:D

[Odin2005]

158. Yes I am!

:)

[apocalypsehow]

164. Then that explains it - I just spent a week in Fargo and it's not Dallas. The two are not even

comparable in terms of social problems, poverty gaps, lack of jobs, etc., of which Dallas has it much worse that leads to many of these problems not just in the Malls but elsewhere in the community.

Nice memorial bridge over into Minnesota you got up there, by the way. I really liked your city, and the people in it.

[pnwmom]

88. Frequently. And I've never seen anything like what you described.

So you saw an incident at a mall. Big deal.

Two weeks ago we had a shooting at a nearby family-oriented park with picnic tables by the lake. Beautiful sunny summer day. A fistfight started between two occupants of nearby picnic tables; someone shot a gun into the air to break up the fight; and the next thing they knew six people were shot and two were dead.

The two shooter/victims were age 30 and 34 (the 34 year old was married with 4 children). Does that mean we should ban all under 40's from the parks? Or maybe just require them to have 50 year old escorts?

[pnwmom]

87. And the vast majority of teens today are also well-behaved, even though

no one has to slap them on the head to keep them so.

Banning teens from malls is certainly not treating them like adults.

[pnwmom]

85. I'd like to be able to go into the world without any old fogies like you,

spouting off insults about people of other races, gender orientations, etc. Making everyone else wait while asking the sales clerk innumerable unimportant questions. Taking an hour to write out a check while people line up behind them.

But I don't get that choice, either.

Don't like how I characterized you? All I did was stereotype you, just as you stereotype young people.

There are nice people and annoying people among all ages, genders, orientations, races, religions, etc. If you're emotionally healthy, you deal with it.

[City Lights]

127. There are disrespectful shits in all age groups.

The last movie I went to was ruined by a group of 30-something women giggling and talking through the whole thing.

And every time I go to the mall I'm forced to maneuver around people of all ages who decide to stop in the middle of the aisle/path just because they feel like it. Then there are all the adults who leave their grocery cart in the middle of the aisle while they wander around scanning the shelves for a particular item.

Rude, ignorant people come in all ages, sizes and colors.

[X_Digger]

165. The last movie I attended on a weekend night was the last of the new 'star wars' movies.

Teens occasionally yelling at each other across the theater, constantly talking, constant chirps and ring tones, frequently getting up and moving back and forth between multiple groups (not too terrible since we were in the stadium seating section, but still damned annoying.)

[npk]

156. I see a new reality show on FOX

Kids Gone Wild. A show that follows wild kids around at the mall.

[Odin2005]

67. This is ageist bullshit.

These are TEENS, not little kids.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. I was in Mall of America this week and they had signs up

displaying this same policy.

There's a mall here that has literally been destroyed by packs of wild teenagers.

[pnwmom]

90. "Packs of wild teenagers" sounds like fear-mongering to me.

Teens are the new "wedge" issue, now that fewer and fewer people feel comfortable denigrating women, gays, minorities, etc.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. I watched them knock an elderly woman down and run off laughing

That was the last time I went to that mall. Stopped going to the movies at the malls years ago because of obnoxious teenagers.

I'm glad your kids know how to behave in a mall. Around here they would be the exception.

[pnwmom]

96. You watched someone do something bad. That doesn't make all teens bad.

I haven't had any trouble at the mall or at movies with individual teenagers or "packs" of them.

I have been totally embarrassed by things an elderly relative has loudly said in the malls. (Racist comments.) But no one's talking about banning obnoxious elderly people from malls.

[dflprincess]

169. I have been at the MOA on week nights when the age limit is not enforced

and been really uncomfortable going by one of the 3rd floor food courts because of the behavior of large groups of teens. I'm not talking about kids who talking loud or horsing around - it was kids who seemed to be trying really hard to start something with each other and doing their best (and succeeding) at intimidating anyone else in the area.

The problems at the Mall got serious enough that the Bloomington (the city MOA is actually located in) police department opened it's only substation at the Mall.

[jberryhill]

126. And you know what I've seen adults do?

Start wars and send teenagers to fight them.

Packs of crazy old fuckers have been preying on teens for a long time.

That elderly woman has her Medicare, so I hope those kids didn't get hurt knocking her down, because old fuckers would just as soon young people without insurance just drop dead.

And young people know it.

Undisciplined gangs of old people are trying to kill teenagers.

[L0oniX]

136. Future Walmart christmas death tramplers.

[saltpoint]

121. It's been "literally destroyed" ? Jesus. I didn't see

one word in the news about it.

[TexasObserver]

128. It's likely to be a trend that sticks.

From the standpoint of the mall owners, it's pretty simple. They don't want people in their malls who run off other customers, particularly when those customers being run off are better spenders who don't trash the mall, intimidate others, or represent a problem for mall security.

Mall owners have decided they don't want to babysit the children of the worst parents in their market.

[dflprincess]

168. At MOA the age limit is 16

and this policy has been in place for several years there. They did consider 18 for the cut off but too many of the stores & the amusement park have 16 & 17 year olds working there.

This has cut down on some of the problems they were having before the policy was started.

[Xicano]

80. Here's why this is stupid...

Teens are going to be teens and if you chase them away from a place that does have security around to put a stop to mischief, then, you'll have teens going some place else where there is no security around. Very stupid move in my opinion.

[bettyellen]

115. it's only a loss if parents expected the mall to be a "defacto" safe haven for the kids

[TexasObserver]

150. The mall and its patrons don't care where the kids go next.

It's not stupid of the mall owners to do this. It would be stupid not to do it, if unescorted kids are a problem. The mall owner has no obligation to provide these parentless kids with supervision.

Getting them to take their mischief elsewhere is the whole point. Because of chronic misconduct by unescorted young people, they're deemed unfit to be around adults, and frankly, it's about time.

[KakistocracyHater]

84. in my nightmares malls charge a ticket fee & a parking fee......

they also have metal detectors. There are 2 tier ticket prices, 1 for access to the main section of the mall, & 1 for just going into the "back" where the video arcades are located. At least it's not true yet.

[smokey nj]

132. There's a mall in Jersey City that charges for parking.

Even mall employees have to pay to park.

[KamaAina]

188. However, unlike the vast majority of malls, Newport Center is well served by transit

PATH stops right there, and now light rail is nearby, too.

[Tunkamerica]

92. when will these damn kids learn to stay off my lawn?

[pnwmom]

95. Yeah, and when will they stop bouncing their basketballs?

;)

[pnwmom]

99. This is what I think people should do when encountering groups of teens at the mall.

SMILE at them. Maybe even wave. They'll think you must be some friend of their parents. Chances are, they'll smile back.

Try it -- it works for me.

[bettyellen]

116. no offense you really need to get out more, teens around here would verbally assault you for that

no joke. it;s amazing to me that so many people here have seen this problem - some very very bad behaviour that was recurring and you still discount it's n issue.
it's not just the customers, stores suffer greatly because it can become very unpleasant to shop. stores are losing business over this and that;s why mall management s doing it. dont kid yourself it;;s about anything but the health of the mall. retailers are having a tough time these days. people with $$ will stay home and surf the net. the stores are ailling and will fail- then where will the kids go?
it's nice you were in a pleasant enough area to drop off your kids and leave thm in a safe supervised area for free, but kids need better places to go. inner city youth always needed better places. they should have better activities than just wandering in circles staring at prodcucts and each other.

[Obamanaut]

125. Until you get to the one (or ones) who look back at you with their heads

bobbing back and forth and want to know, at great volume, why you are 'eyeballing' them. Then the pack fever hits and more will want to know the same thing.

Then you have a situation.

[Lorien]

101. I've always been amazed at how threads like this always get hundreds of replies

while threads about activism on campaign reform, the environment, saving public school teacher's jobs, electronic voting, etc. etc. sink like stones...on a political discussion board, no less.

[Q3JR4]

102. I'm not surprised.

No matter how pretty these privately owned buildings make themselves on the inside, no matter how much paint they put over themselves to add a veneer of welcome-ness to the undercurrent of corporate ownership, no matter how much they try to project otherwise, these places are not for the public. We don't have the right to say what we want, or picket the bad decisions of our corporate overlords. More importantly we do not have the right to tell them whom they can and cannot allow onto this land that is not owned by the public.

If you think otherwise, you're deluded. That delusion, however, is not your fault. The companies that rent space on the privately owned mall land pay a lot of money to keep you there.

Q3JR4.

[krabigirl]

104. Stupid. Just stupid. Nt

[Urban Prairie]

107. When I was a teenager in the late 60s-mid 70s

The mall was very low on my teen gang's list of hangout areas, we found ways of entertaining ourselves w/o being surrounded by capitalism. We played every game imaginable outdoors and indoors, the former all year long, even in the dead of winter, by ice skating/playing hockey on backyard ice rinks, or sledding/tobogganing at our local parks' hills. We would roller skate on the sidewalks, and at school gyms. All of us would often go on long bike rides for miles, our bicycles were our primary means of getting around, and our parents rarely had to "drive us" to where we wanted to go, unlike most kids nowadays, who can't seem to be able to walk or bike to any place more than one block away.

We invented things to do, and games to play, since most of us had little money to spend, although by age 10, I had a regular base of neighborhood homes in the winter, where I would shovel snow from their sidewalks and driveways, and in the spring, summer, and fall, cut grass and rake leaves to earn my spending money. I also walked the streets with friends on discarded pop/beer bottle hunts, even though returnables were only worth a penny or two back then, to buy candy at the party stores nearby.

I was rarely bored, unless I went to visit my relatives in the 'burbs, they had no alleys!! Every kid,should have an alley behind their home's backyard fence, they were where we hunted for and caught bees in glass jars, played hide and go seek, hid out at to smoke our parent's cigarettes that we stole out of their packs, explored our neighbor's trashcans, built forts out of discarded cardboard appliance boxes and wooden crates, and used to travel on foot through them, to go to each other's homes.

[bettyellen]

117. + we weren;t'allowed unsupervised in Macy's unless we were well behaved and actually really shopping

[bettyellen]

118. dupe

[Radical Activist]

108. I wonder how many of the people who say they stopped going to the mall because of teens

also used to avoid driving through the poor, black part of town on their way there.

[kiva]

111. Yes, because anyone who complains about teens

misbehaving in a mall are racists :eyes:

[Radical Activist]

174. Fearful people

usually have many things to be afraid of, like high crime neighborhoods.

[kiva]

176. And "high crime neighborhoods" are black neighborhoods?

Odd, I don't make that connection.

[Radical Activist]

178. When they're also low-income neighborhoods,

fearful people assume they're high crime. You can quit playing dumb now.

[kiva]

181. You're right, why should I play dumb when I"m in the presence of a master?

[proud2BlibKansan]

162. Not me. I work in that part of town.

[SmileyRose]

109. Trust me they really need this badly.

My sister lives in Springdale, just a mile from this mall. I've seen the problem with my own eyes while visiting her family. We are talking about groups of 20+ unsupervised kids that are always loud (which is fine) but more often loud and rude - and rarely but sometimes criminal. Too many adults are choosing to avoid to the mall because they simply don't want to put up with it. Something has to be done to keep the mall open for kids who are actually shopping but keep the rude factor from the big groups of kids to a minimum.


Or they could do the "politically correct" thing like the mall where I live in Georgia. We quit going in there years ago because of large groups of teens getting their rude on. I know they are just being kids having some fun and I'm glad they found a place to do that. Unfortunately for the mall we aren't the only adults who've quit going in there. 5 years ago they tried filling it full of stores the kids like to keep it alive but quickly got into trouble before the economy started tanking. Now half the stores are empty, car breakins are way up and we've progressed to shootings in the parking lot. I won't even go to the stores NEAR the mall anymore.

[saltpoint]

110. Any measure, no matter how extreme, should indeed

be employed to preserve "a more pleasant shopping experience" across these United States.

Shopping is who we are.

Any teenager at any shopping venue who is felt by armed sentries to be defiant or rowdy should be considered an enemy of the State and gunned down without mercy.

Before family are notified, any money found in the dead teenagers' wallets should be divvied up among mall merchants as compensation for having to endure the unspeakable burden of having young people in their midst in the first place.

[Radical Activist]

112. "Shopping is who we are"

I was buying it until the line after that. :rofl:

[saltpoint]

114. - - -

:hi:

[TexasObserver]

120. It's a private business that wants to solve a problem.

Some malls are beset with unsupervised children who make the shopping experience less enjoyable for the target shoppers of the mall. It should not be surprising that such a mall might want to keep the kids out and protect their adult shoppers from the constant annoyance of unruly, unsupervised children.

While this action will stop some decent teens from shopping without adult supervision, they're free to shop elsewhere. They don't have a right to shop at this particular mall.

The message to unsupervised kids and their parents is simple: no hanging out at this mall. It's not the job of the mall to babysit their kids, give them a place to hang out, or provide them with a place to shop. Chalk this one up to the growing army of kids who lack sufficient respect for others to be allowed where real adults conduct their business.

[WinkyDink]

131. I think this Mall will soon learn of "unintended consequences."

[TexasObserver]

133. The Mall knows the consequences.

While it will mean their teen age business will diminish, that will be offset by the purchasing of adults who like shopping in a mall free of packs of unsupervised children. Businesses study these things before doing them. They project the increased and decreased business which will result, often after building models based upon historic data.

The unsupervised children create more costs than their buying offsets. They discourage other shoppers who are better customers. Simple math dictates that they be eliminated.

This is not an isolated incident. This is a trend that is emerging for good reason. The age of unsupervised kids roaming the malls with few limitations is ending, at least for the good malls. As malls implement this policy, they'll see business increase, because customers who are there to shop will dominate, and they won't have to navigate their way past annoying, ill behaved kids whose parents think the mall is the family entertainment center.

[noamnety]

122. Why are people talking about "babysitting" 17 year olds in this thread?

I don't know ANY parents who hired babysitters when their kids were 17.

I'd be surprised if the people in this thread referring to babysitting even did that themselves. I suspect we either have a lot of childless adults or hypocrites using that language here. Either that or helicopter parents if they never let their kids out of their sight until they were 18.

Or these are parents with excessive privilege - who don't understand the concept of single parents working late shifts at work, and who seem to think that keeping nearly adult offspring at home as prisoners because you're at work is best for them, or even feasible. Maybe in their minds every family has two parents with a stay at home mom who isn't burned out from work by Friday evening, or who doesn't have to attend to sick parents or small children.

As someone who left home at 16, I find the whole concept weird and disturbing. The state says they are independent enough to drive without adult supervision and some of them probably drive themselves to the mall so they can get to their jobs in that same mall.

At 17 some people are in basic training already - should they need to call their parents to come take them to the commissary?

[bettyellen]

137. because kids 10-15 are being dropped off with the expectaion they'll be watched over and stay dry +

warm. and away from drugs and trouble.....unlike hanging out on street corners or parking lots etc. like they did in hte good old days.
the parents should have fought for community centers or other spaces to be safe alternatives fr their kids. businesses do not owe them anything.

[Darth_Kitten]

147. +1

Yes!

[Darth_Kitten]

144. Well, speaking as a currently childless, daughter of a single parent for years and who babysat....

Malls are just hangouts for teenagers with not enough to do, usually.

I'm more disturbed that you seem to judge the mindsets of certain people.

[WinkyDink]

129. OMG. When I was in HS I didn't know ANYONE of college age! And my parents were not "Mall" types.

[Forkboy]

135. Next they'll be dancing!

[noamnety]

139. lol

I'm always surprised at the animosity that liberals show towards icky things like teenagers. Or going out in public with kids in general.

Not that republicans are better, but at least I expect them to hate everyone.

What nobody's brought up is that this is also a (convenient) way to expand the Arizona-type laws to prevent immigrants without papers from being able to shop. A younger looking family has to show identity papers now to be able to shop at certain stores.

The implications are troubling.

[starroute]

138. And how many youthful-looking 20-somethings will this piss off?

If the guards are instructed to demand ID from anyone who looks like they're under 25, they're going to be stopping an awful lot of people who are in their 20's. How happy is that baby-faced 27-year-old going to be to have to show his papers every time he goes shopping on the weekend?

And it also sounds like it would only take one 21-year-old -- or a 17-year-old with a forged ID -- to get a whole bunch of their friends in with them. I recall once when I was 21 and served as the "adult" to get a 19-year-old friend in somewhere -- I think a restaurant that served alcohol. It seemed awfully silly at the time, and it still does.

From some of the comments on this thread, it's clear that rowdy groups of teenagers are enough of a problem at some malls to discourage other shoppers. That's far from a new problem -- Google "mohocks" for an early 18th century example -- but the problem is the rowdiness and not the teenagers.

I think that if the mall took those extra security guards they want to station at the doors to check papers and set them to maintaining order instead, the problem could be solved with far less dislocation to everyone.

[Warren DeMontague]

145. Make 'em PULL UP THEIR PANTS, while you're at it!!!

[Iggo]

175. And no backwards hats!!!

[npk]

151. What if the teenager works at the mall

Didn't see the article in the link provided.

[Obamanaut]

157. Perhaps the business where the teen works has other employees over 21. nt

[npk]

160. But wouldn't that force the teenage worker to carpool with another worker who is 18 or older

Not always an option for some kids who work.

[Obamanaut]

163. No. Teenager drives to work. Teenager parks car. Teenager works

in store where other employees are over the required age to be escorts, and can serve as such. Mall security has a roster of teenagers who work, where they work, and verification that other employees are over 21.

Carpooling problem solved.

[Subdivisions]

153. Yea, we wouldn't want to keep these kids from being exposed to

gangs and drugs because they have nothing else to do...

Every day the restrictions on kids' fun gets tighter and tighter until...what?

[apocalypsehow]

155. Good for that Mall. I wish they would do the same to the ones around here. n/t.

[AngryOldDem]

166. Dayton Mall north of Cincy's has had a policy like that for years.

Same exact thing.

It happened after a big fight involving teens that virtually shut down the mall.

I have no problem with this. Curfews in general need to be in place and enforced.

[seabeyond]

172. i would let the mall know, they will no longer get my businesses, or the families. that is all. nt

[ohheckyeah]

179. This reminds me of grade school

when the teacher would keep everybody in at recess because one person did something they shouldn't have.

What's wrong with just addressing the kids causing the problem?

[Javaman]

180. It's their property, they can do with it as they please.

Kids will just find another place to hang out. The mall will get a rep for being "kid unfriendly" and will lose business.

A smart 21 year old college student should start a business of professional chaperons.

Pay them a fee, they walk in with you, then turn the kids loose! LOL

[KamaAina]

189. I'll bet, if they looked into this further, they'd find it's the same few people

causing trouble over and over again.

It'd be a lot easier, and fairer, just to eighty-six those few and not harass all the rest of the tennagers.