This is NOT DU's finest hour!

[Atman]

I didn't expect any DUers to fall to their knees in tears over the death of Jerry Falwell, but where exactly does it fit into the democratic ideals of brotherhood and acceptance to be dancing on still-warm body of a fellow human being? Regardless of his obviously reprehensible politics and hate-filled persona, he was still a man with a family and loved ones. I can see this type of macabre "celebration" if he had simply retired from evangelizing, but to be partying like it's 1999 over a man's DEATH? It creeps me out.

Just had to say it.

.

[Missy Vixen]

1. K&R

Thank you.
I think it's time for me to find something else to do for the next 24-48 hours.

Atman, you did a good thing.
Julie

[L. Coyote]

165. ECHO that. In the final analysis, "We are ALL one family.

WE are ALL going to DIE. What will they say about us then?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x891012

In the final analysis, "We are ALL one family.
AND, politics is sure a lot of fun for us ALL.

The 1,099 Trillion Principle.
How many ancestors do we have?

http://jqjacobs.net/anthro/ancestors.html

[Madspirit]

213. Falwell is NOT my family. n/t

[EFerrari]

297. Mine, either. n/t

[JuniperLea]

350. Nor mine!

When you spend your life sowing the seeds of hatred, don't expect anything less than dancing and pissing on your grave.

[L. Coyote]

373. We can disagree in the nth degree, and still recognize the "human family."

And if the freepers like Falwell and Bush would learn the the simple lesson in 2, 4, 8, 16 32, 64 ... we would nor be killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

When 9/11 happened, I hoped a higher vision would prevail. But NO, these people had to do the US/THEM thing. Don't join their side by "othering" anyone. Humanity really is one family, even if some of the family is a bunch of real pukes (and they think the same of us).

It is the tendency of "othering" that enables slavery and exploitation, wars and genocide, and we should be above that.

Do the math. 2, 4, 8, 16 32, 64, ... It is just addition.

[JuniperLea]

395. If he were human, sure... n/t

[L. Coyote]

408. They told me I am in my anthropology classes, but I still doubt

the sapiens, sapiens part. Maybe a better monicker would apply correctly, from what I am reading today??

[JuniperLea]

424. Falwell was pure evil... n/t

[ooglymoogly]

502. Oh kroyki and ditto that

this hateful sole never had a finest hour nor did he help anyone else to have a finest hour. He caused more pain to more people than any of us can imagine. If the worst thing he did was usher in this idiot and his maniacal cabal that is hanging over us like the sword of Damocles, that is quite bad enough to put it mildly, but the crimes he committed against humanity are kaleidoscopic. Lets face it folks his shuffling off this mortal coil was his finest hour and may the gods judge him more fairly than he sat sanctimoniously in judgment of everyone else. For my part I will grudgingly forgive him for these horrific transgressions and hypocrisies because he is dead, dead, dead, yes dead as a doornail, deader than a coffin nail, quite dead indeed, but I will never forget the pain and suffering he has caused this earth. The final thought I have is the way he soiled the name of perhaps the greatest and purest of all men, Jesus, or the man Jesus is meant to be.

[JuniperLea]

583. Amen!

Forgive, but never, ever forget. By forgetting, we allow ourselves to be used and abused again.

[bluemarkers]

431. true that - reap what you sow

But I always try to take the moral high road. And then I think, where has that taken us the past few years? I can understand the frustration and the need to vent about such a person. For many people I wonder if his departure, I guess it is not the rapture, feeling a weight removed from their shoulders.

I have no love for this man or the minions he helped create. I just hate that folks will "rush" over and read the site (sites) and say look at what those liberals, (or what ever negative tag they are using) saying about jf. I don't care that people say it.

The biggest thing I didn't like about what the msm is saying is that he was a Christian leader - like he represented me and my views. He did not. Nor does pr or their universities or their blind followers. They have done much more harm than good.

[emilyg]

460. He was not my family

[Dorian Gray]

171. Whenever any conservative dies

I dread coming here to see the reaction. This is the first thread that I've read today, and I'm happy to see that there are some others uncomfortable with the prospect of celebrating a man's death as I am. Sure, his philosophy is vastly different than mine, and I even found his words and beliefs to be hate-filled much of the time. But, he's a human being, his family and friends are suffering, and I can't not celebrate his DEATH. (I don't celebrate his life, either.... but CERTAINLY not his death.)

[greyghost]

336. Or mine...

At times like these I find myself wishing there was a just God.

Because if there were, this fucker would be burning in hell for an eternity.:evilgrin:

[dansolo]

468. If there was a just God

Falwell would have been taken 30 years ago.

[greyghost]

484. Sad, but TRUE n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

383. His death may just mean life for some

For those who had not yet been influenced by his message of hate toward gays and lesbians, perhaps his death will mean that they will not seek to destroy homosexuality. Perhaps...just perhaps that if the jerk lived one more day then one more child would happen upon his terrible presence and learn some true evil. May I remind everyone of Mr. Shepherd and the fence he died on when children raised on the hate speech of Mr. Falwell decided he shouldn't live.

Don't feel guilty about celebrating the death of evil.

[tblue]

443. I'm not rejoicing. But should the world have been respectful when Hitler died? Just wondering.

I haven't posted anything snarky though I never gave a damn about JF, and I hate much of what he did during his lifetime. But I didn't kill him and I never wished him dead. Am I sorry someone died and his loved ones are grieving? Yeah, but that's the extent of it.

[kegler14]

551. You do know don't you...

that Jerry's sons are taking over. Like father, like son. The message will remain exactly the same.

"For those who had not yet been influenced by his message of hate toward gays and lesbians, perhaps his death will mean that they will not seek to destroy homosexuality. Perhaps...just perhaps that if the jerk lived one more day then one more child would happen upon his terrible presence and learn some true evil."

[Stuckinthebush]

589. Yes

and that is a shame.

[purduejake]

481. I celebrate his death...

because that is one less bigot out there campaigning against gays (and others). He's live a life attacking families and has been effective at it. Good riddance.

[DoctorStrangelove]

620. Is hate a moral response to hate?

[highplainsdem]

301. K&R again. Thank you, Atman.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. That's true.

This is Jerry Falwell's finest hour.

[Madspirit]

166. "This is Jerry Falwell's finest hour."

:rofl: Well said Bornagin!
Lee

[YOY]

172. OMG!

Uh uh!! No you di'n't!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ellisonz]

313. The part where he burns in Hell?

Roasted pork...crispy.

}(

[JuniperLea]

327. Pork rinds and high times forever!

( Think Blue! )

[ellisonz]

353. That's not all she wrote...

( Think glue or jello! )

[JuniperLea]

325. OH GOOD GOD!!!

I AGREE WITH BORNAGINHOOLIGAN!!!


:rofl:

[Madspirit]

389. Shocked Me Too

Bornagin has been in FINE form today. I've laughed at almost all his posts.
Lee

[JuniperLea]

400. Falwell, the uniter!

Well, he fucked up a lot of good people in life, but in death... we finally found something good he's done!

[Raster]

479. BRAVO!

[devilgrrl]

3. He enthusiastically contributed to the sorry state that this country is in now, he can rot in hell!

eom

[kstewart33]

12. Geez, that's out of bounds. nt

[devilgrrl]

23. Ahhhhh, boo hoo!!!!

:cry: She's picking on Jerry Falwell - he was such a great guy... :cry:

[Arugula Latte]

152. I know, it just rips me up to hear him spoken badly of!

:cry:

Apparantly, when you die, all of the horrible things you've done in your life are immediately erased, according to some on DU.

[devilgrrl]

162. Don't you love it when the concern trolls come out in droves?

They're my favorites.

[Missy Vixen]

176. I'm not a "concern troll"

I'm as much of a Democrat as you are.

I don't care to celebrate someone else's death. I'm frankly embarrassed by some of the celebrating going on today.

Julie

[Madspirit]

212. Makes no sense

Would you be embarrassed if the Jews were celebrating the death of Hitler? As a lesbian I resent your embarrassment. This man wanted me dead for no reason other than who I love. He blamed ME for 9/11. He blamed ME for AIDS. You should visit an AIDS hospice and then come tell me who exactly you are embarrassed for. The man was Evil...with a capital "E" and the world is a better place. Personally, I can't wait until all the fascists die off. Then maybe we can have a kinder gentler world.
Lee

[Missy Vixen]

242. Oh, I see

>As a lesbian I resent your embarrassment.<

You're free to resent whomever you like.
When we start acting like those we hate, WE ARE THEM.

>You should visit an AIDS hospice and then come tell me who exactly you are embarrassed for.<

Let me tell you a bit about myself, since you seem to believe I'm homophobic for not dancing in the street at Jerry Falwell's death.

We buried two members of our family due to AIDS. My husband and I were pretty well-known in the halls of Bailey-Boushay, a hospice in Seattle that worked primarily with AIDS patients for many years. I might also add that I worked for a home IV infusion therapy company that had hundreds of AIDS patients among their clientele.

Don't lecture me about AIDS until you've walked a mile in our shoes.

Julie

[Bluerthanblue]

279. Thank you Julie- for

your wise compassionate words- and for having the courage and patience to post them.
We are all diminished when hatred triumphs-

I'm sorry you have experienced such loss-

Sometimes suffering softens and tenderizes our hearts- even towards those we 'should' despise. (this is the ideal) Other times it makes us bitter- not better. IMO. mr Falwell was often a very unpleasant, unkind man. I hope he is finally at peace.

Thanks again-
:hug:

blu

[Madspirit]

356. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT

"When we start acting like those we hate, WE ARE THEM."


ACCORDING TO MY SHRINK WE ARE JUST VENTING. That is not action. We do nothing as despicable as what they do. I'm sorry about your family members and that's great that you go to hospices...but you are still looking at it from the other side of the window. Let me know when you come out.
Lee

[Missy Vixen]

455. You might want to rethink your stance

>Let me know when you come out.<

So, it's okay for you to attack me because I'm not gay?

Julie

[iverglas]

618. never mind the "venting"

None of this has to be justified by calling it "venting".

It is NOT "the same". Hating Jerry Falwell and being glad he is dead is NOT being LIKE Jerry Falwell.

Hating an evil, vicious person for the evil, vicious things s/he DOES is NOT the same as hating a person for what s/he IS.

If I play soccer, that is NOT the same as you playing dirty tricks.

If I call my canine pet a dog, it is NOT the same as you calling a woman a dog.

If I vote for the New Democratic Party, it is NOT the same as you voting for the Republican Party.

If Canada goes to war against Nazi Germany, it is NOT the same as the US going to war against Grenada.

It makes as much sense to say that that if I hate the US for going to war against Grenada I am just LIKE Nazis who hate Canada for going to war against Nazi Germany.

I hated Jerry Falwell for WHAT HE DID, and what he did hurt people, and I choose to express that hatred. Jerry Falwell hated people for WHAT THEY WERE, and what they were hurt no one, and he chose to express that hatred.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, and I am not LIKE Jerry Falwell.

This is no more than gross, disingenuous equivocation on the part of all the lecturers and chiders alleging the sameness. They really need to look up the concept of "apples and oranges".

[rhino47]

553. Sorry for your loss Julie.

:hug:

[closeupready]

582. Thank you, Julie!

:hi:

[CreekDog]

369. If you are not a victim, you are part of the problem

Nobody at DU outright says this, but I'm thinking a lot of people essentially believe it.

I wrote that because I saw the post above me say, "as a lesbian, I resent your embarassment" (over what DU'ers celebrating Falwell's death).

Nonsequitor of the day.

[Occulus]

496. I don't see it as a nonsequitor at all

I see it as centrally relevant. Given I'm gay myself, I can honestly state with a whole heart and a peaceful mind that my world got a little less threatening today.

I'm glad the fat piece of shit is dead. It's one less extremely loud, hateful voice to make my life miserable.

Nobody should dare take umbrage to people feeling victimized by this waste of flesh. People have killed themselves over familial belief in what he, Jerry Fucking Falwell personally, had to say about being gay. I almost killed myself because of people like him- being my own parents, who literally kicked me into the rain with nothing but the clothes on my back, and later stopped helping me pay for school, thus forcing me to drop out. They apparently believed the same things as Falwell; I should note, I didn't shed even one single tear at my father's funeral.

I should think gay people at least should be given a pass in how we feel about "losing" this miserable bastard. Many of us have had our lives ruined by the beliefs he incessantly spouted.

It isn't wrong to take joy in the expiration of evil. I, for one, take hot exception to the idea that I should say nothing but good about this slavering, pathetic bigot now that he's (finally!) dead.

[Bette Noir]

423. According to Moms Mabley,

You should never say anything about the dead unless it's good. He's dead. Good.

In order not to be rude, I'm not going to attend his funeral and hoot. I'm going to quietly go about my business, happy in the knowledge that his evil is no longer in this world.

[druidity33]

232. "hide thread" works well... nt

[JuniperLea]

329. Then you should employ the hide thread button

And leave the merry makers the hell alone.

[stlsaxman]

358. I am not celebrating his death or anyone else's, but-

this world is a much better place without Jerry Falwell in it.

I can feel the difference. There IS hope for us now.

[MistressOverdone]

401. Oh my, you are naive

He was only a human being and there are millions of humans who echo his philosophies, many of them with money and power.

His death means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Which is why we shouldn't be quite so gleeful.

[Hardrada]

379. You said "concern trolls!" LOL!

[petronius]

319. No, they're not erased, and nobody here thinks they are

But 'pissing on the dead' posts are despicable, no matter who the deceased is...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

149. No, it's a statement of fact. (Except for the hell part, which many don't believe in) -nt

[JuniperLea]

328. No fucking way!

That was a 95 mile an hour steeeeeeeriiiiiiike!!!

[Tesha]

372. Boo freakin' hoo. The media's going to give us a revisionist Falwell love-fest;

at least here, you'll get the truth about the bastard.

Tesha

[Kelvin Mace]

My one regret about being an atheist

is I know there is no Hell.

And they'll bury him in some steal monstrosity and deny the worms a decent meal.

[devilgrrl]

I don't doubt that the worms are relieved....

what's the point in eating shit?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. seconded whole heartedly!

[Dervill Crow]

51. If there actually is a hell, I'm pretty sure he is there.

I can't say I'm happy about that, though. I try not to embrace schaudenfreude.

[jazzjunkysue]

192. Let's just hope they're not full, yet. ;)

Isn't it great how truly mean people have names that desrcibe them, though? "Fall Well"? No matter how much hate he spewed, he managed to stay in the middle of D.C. right wing hate politics. His bigotry was always rewarded by small, fearful minds.

[jwdeviant]

202. Oh why not?

Haven't you ever seen poor schadenfreude sitting there, looking dejected, and said "Who needs a hug?"

[Dervill Crow]

231. Good point.

And good spelling. I really should have looked that word up before using it.

:rofl:

[Ford Prefect]

266. Schadenfreude...

"...ist die schönste Freude, wenn sie kommt von hertzen." - old German proverb.

In English? "Schadenfreude is the most superb joy, because it comes from the heart."

nuff said.

[JuniperLea]

331. I'm happy...

This one death means a hell of a lot less hate in the world.

We'll forget about him next week... and we won't give a flying rat's ass about hating him anymore.

[Fox Mulder]

260. Agreed.

[Blue_Roses]

4. I agree

[Seen the light]

5. Most people on DU probably agree with you

I do too.

[BOSSHOG]

Thank you for your post

I wanted to do something similar but yours is so much better then anything I could have come up with. I can't bring myself to trash a dead man. Lets take his legacy to task at a future time but not now.

[Solly Mack]

6. True...that'll come when Cheney kicks the bucket

[Zywiec]

7. How dare you!

What are you a Freeper now? :sarcasm:

[gatorboy]

20. Hope not.

We have enough of those here as it is.

[Kurovski]

150. Ain't that the fuckin' truth.

[NYC Liberal]

8. Give me a break

Would we be saying the same about Hitler?

No, Falwell did not kill millions, but he sure had just as much HATRED inside of him as Hitler did.

[shaniqua6392]

What about when Bush or Cheney kick the bucket?

Are people going to be offended when we speak the truth about the things they have done? I agree with your point. They are what they are and death does not absolve them from their deeds. Is there like a "grace period" before we can say anything about evil people when they die? Yikes.

[CallBox7]

126. Death and Taxes, the two inescapable realities.

In a very real sense, he managed to escape the taxes for years as a "religious institution". Looks like he wasn't so lucky with death.

[Telly Savalas]

119. So reciprocating with more hatred makes the world a better place?

[Igel]

137. Of course.

Hate, dehumanization, judgmentalism ... are all perfectly fine freeper progressive values.

(now let's see if I got the strikethrough code right.)

[rocktivity]

153. He is only reaping the hatred he has always sown.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Telly Savalas]

191. He's dead. More hatred doesn't hurt him.

It does hurt us though.

[frylock]

439. it may hurt you..

the venting is cathartic for others.

[earthlover]

384. and of course those of us who sow hatred at Falwell now....

...will be reaping hatred later. And the other side will point to our hatred to support their future sowing of hatred. So how is the cycle broken? Maybe not to act with hatred? whachathink?

[NYC Liberal]

158. Saying good things about a bad man does?

Why can we criticize him when he's alive, but not when he's dead?

[Telly Savalas]

189. There's a difference between criticism and hatred.

[Dervill Crow]

296. I can't believe any DU member would say anything good about Jerry Falwell.

I'm not celebrating his death, but you will NEVER hear me say anything good about him.

He was a human being. If I could only save the life of one person, it would not be his. If I could save a million people, he wouldn't make the cut. But I'm not happy he's dead. I've lost people near and dear to me, and I can't celebrate anyone's death. Death is my least favorite part of life.

I do admit to observing that it's a joke on him, though. I cannot imagine that he is being greeted with open arms by Jesus or St. Peter or whoever he was expecting.

[Jim Lane]

320. I mourn his death

Just in practical political terms, it would've been helpful to have him sticking his nose in the 2008 race. He'd already gotten McCain to flip flop to try to placate him, thereby knocking a little of the luster off McCain's image and helping to reveal the real man underneath.

Also in practical political terms: There's a long tradition in Western culture of De mortuis nil nisi bonum ("Of the dead, speak nothing but good"). It doesn't mean you can never criticize Falwell now that he's dead. It doesn't even mean you can't criticize him today. It just means that, on the day of his death, mean-spirited sack dancing will tend to offend quite a few people who didn't have much use for Falwell when he was alive.

If we want to counteract Falwell's influence in the world, one way we can do it is to set an example.

[Dervill Crow]

354. That's not exactly saying something nice about him, but I get your point.

And I learned a new term today: "sack dancing." Thank you.
:hi:

[Jim Lane]

363. I admit it's not exactly glowing, but it's the best I could do

I'm not a Christian, so I'm under no divine injunction to love my enemies.

[nadine_mn]

421. I have no more room for hate

"Why can we criticize him when he's alive, but not when he's dead?"

Criticize to your hearts content - but celebrating that someone is dead? Look at the hard-on Bush had when Saddam was executed - cheering someone's death is just distasteful.

Clearly people like Falwell who are filled with so much hate are not well mentally or emotionally and I just can't cheer.


I know I am going to get slammed from several posters for saying this, but a long time ago I realized that hating someone only gives them more power over you.

[dansolo]

470. There is a diference between Saddam's death and Falwell's

When Saddam died, he was essentially a nobody. He was in prison, and was never getting out. Falwell, on the other hand, was free to continue to spread his evil influence on our political process.

I'm not cheering his death. I am cheering the fact that he can no longer be an active force for evil.

[Joe Fields]

195. I would say it is more well deserved satisfaction, than hatred.

[JuniperLea]

338. One should always rejoice...

When something evil dies.

[earthlover]

381. reciprocating with hatred is what the bush bots do....

....of course we are different. When we reciprocate with hate it is because the other side is wrong. Sarc....

[Bluerthanblue]

288. not to

rub salt into your wounds, but what is inside you when you write this? Is it any different from what he carried around and chose to unleash upon the world???

Your hatred is no better- personally I pity him. Imagine having lived as he did- and now being dead, with no hope that he can 'make amends'.

Hatred kills- many wise people have said as much- here is one of my favorites- :

"I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him."
Booker T. Washington

I wish you peace-
blu

[NYC Liberal]

345. It's not hatred, it's simply a recognition of HIS hatred.

And I do not think that it is logical to have openly acknowledged it all the time when he was alive and preaching his hatred and doing everything that he did, and then suddenly when he dies, to say that was should show some compassion, sympathy, whatever.

The same criticisms and remarks you're seeing about him now, have always been posted here. And yet, there was no big outcry about how we were "stooping to his level" then. So why now? Because he is dead?

Imagine having lived as he did- and now being dead, with no hope that he can 'make amends'.

Being an atheist, I don't believe he's "hoping" anything right now, because he's cold and dead.

I may seem harsh, but you know what? It isn't any different from what people were saying about him BEFORE he died. I didn't like the man before, so I criticized him. He died....I still don't like him, and I'll still criticize what he did and stood for.

[Bluerthanblue]

367. this is different, don't you

think? When someone dies (and I've buried far too many loved ones myself to sit silent on this)

When someone dies- words are spoken about them, which form kind of a "period" that marks the occasion.
The words being tossed around DU this afternoon- are words that aren't going to make their way back to Jerry- The "na-na-...na-na..na-na.." "good riddance you $@#(RU%$" don't change what the man said or did- they don't alter the seeds of bigotry, intolerance and hate that he used his life to scatter- but they DO effect, and alter the persons who have chosen to adopt the same 'mentality' in response.

It IS hate- and it only diminishes those who are using this same terrible tool to attempt to 'feel better'.

On a typical day, I'd never see this kind of macabre hate-fest. The man ceases to exist on this earth.

But we don't- and we answer to ourselves for our own actions-

That was what I was asking the poster to consider. I honestly do understand how pain and suffering can sometimes make a person do things they'd normally condemn others for doing- I've experienced it myself- and why I can't not at least try and ask people to walk carefully- for everyones sake-

This isn't about religion- religion is USED as a 'cover' for a lot of terrible human failings- being the flip side of the hateful bigot coin is still being 'coined'-

We need to stop the cycle- with ourselves-

Thanks for taking the time to make me question myself- :hi:

peace,
blu

[NYC Liberal]

380. See, I'd agree with you, but this is just a forum

And for a lot of us, it's an outlet to vent anger and frustration. I sincerely doubt many here would say the things they say here to the faces of his family members at the funeral, for example. Maybe some, but I doubt most.

What is being said about the man seems hateful, but you have to recognize (which I'm sure you do) everything that he stood for. And I don't think that the hatred is equivalent. The sentiments expressed today are a response to what he did and stood for. Nobody here hates/despises/doen't like Falwell just "because."

Also, another thing is that I agree hatred, and just hatred, is a terrible thing to waste your time on. But a lot of people here aren't just sitting around thinking about how much they hate/d Falwell, they're also actively trying to change things for the better - whether it be in terms of Iraq, the poor, gay rights, racism, or any one of countless problems today. So yes, just doing nothing but passively hating consumes you. But it can also be a healthy motivator to go out and do good. And if you take that hatred and turn it into an impulse for change, well that's a positive, not a negative.

Peace, :hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

402. while we

don't see eye to eye on this- I understand what you are saying.

Thanks for your reasoned response- and I'll join you in hoping that a positive change is born out of all this for everyone-

Peace to you too.

blu

[Bette Noir]

430. Lordy,

Is there any limit to your self-righteousness? Are you going to impose your religious ideals on us, like the Rev did?

[Bluerthanblue]

473. I'm not

IMPOSING anything on you Bette Noir-

As for self-righteous, you can believe whatever you choose. There is absolutely nothing 'righteous' about me- If you knew me, you'd know just how true this is-

desiring to rise above the worst of human'kind's continued pit-falls isn't something 'religious'. You don't have to be 'religious' to be kind- OR cut-throat. You simply have to be alive.

peace,
blu

[CTLawGuy]

378. Im invoking Godwin's law

NT

[MistressOverdone]

407. Almost as much hatred as on DU today

Sickening

[rpannier]

437. My question would be...What would Falwell say?

He'd mutter some gobbledy gook about the tragedy of death and then add that the person was in Hell for living a decadent life.

He made a career out of wedge issues and spreading his hatred in the guise of being a minister.

I sincerely hope he finds comfort on the other side, but I doubt he will.

[Botany]

9. How many families of gays did he destroy w/ his hate?

BTW Jesus never mentioned homosexuality in the New Testament

[devilgrrl]

He was really kind to the poor too.

NOT!

[Moochy]

143. Perfect timing on the Not

Way better than Borat! :D

[libnnc]

10. Did he shed any tears over people who died of AIDS?

He rejoiced in the deaths of thousands.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. yup. and said that they deserved it. wrath from god and all that bullshit!

[callous taoboy]

257. So what goes around comes around? Nice. Great path.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. People here

cheered when Laura fucking Branigan died.

I objected to the abject hatred expressed when Reagan died, when Ford died, when Anna Nicole died. Why? Those people weren't important anymore, if they ever were. Reagan got his dues during his lifetime. Ford was 30 years out of power.

But Falwell was a threat to me, and my country, as of this morning. This is one death I don't feel bad about.

[Blue Belle]

44. Why did they cheer when Laura Branigan died?

just curious... I don't remember her dying.

[MonkeyFunk]

67. lol

it was one of the classic lounge flamewars. I still don't get it.

[jayfish]

100. Same Here.

I had to look up her Wiki entry just to make sure that she was the same Laura Branigan I was thinking of. Sad...

Jay

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Laura Branigan?

What the Hell did she do?

Nice lady and a great singer.

Falwell on the other hand...

[bunkerbuster1]

13. I am concerned!

As a lifelong Democrat...

[Labors of Hercules]

113. Concerned?

I am concerned too... That more people are not relieved that this man's judgements can no longer destroy people's lives.

His death feels like the death of an Inquisitor, and I for one am happy that those he would have continued to condemn are now set free.

[bunkerbuster1]

173. Sarcasm is hard when it's subtle

I should know better.

About my "concerned" comment...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1382185

[Labors of Hercules]

175. whattaya mean? your ambiguity was a fantastic springboard!

*boing!* :bounce:

[ourbluenation]

14. I agree... and I couldn't stand the man. But he had people who loved him all the same.

[Kelvin Mace]

58. Yes, and they will mourn him.

They won't be hanging out here asking our opinions of the matter, they will be pledging to continue his jihad of hatred.

[Madspirit]

170. BFD

I'm sure Hitler had people who loved him all the same too. Would you not expect Jews to celebrate his death? I would. As a lesbian....I CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF THIS MISCREANT PIG.
Lee

[ourbluenation]

199. well as the sister of lesbian I couldnt stand him either - so there!

:P

[Madspirit]

205. Good

:toast: It's not like we killed him...<g> I think it's fine people are getting this out of their systems. After all, this man really did wish ill on us.
Lee

[earthlover]

394. and hitler celebrated the death of those he considered miscreant pigs....

It is not the mark of a nice person or even an emotionally stable person to celebrate the death of others.

As bad as Falwell was, did he ever use such hateful language in public?

What I am seeing on these boards is much more blatant hatred than I have EVER seen Falwell eminate. Some of it rivals Coulter!!!

How is it that people get so hate-filled?

I know those who are all fired up and grousing their hate feathers are not going to listen to someone speaking of how hate is bad, and it would probably be difficult to put a mirror in front of their faces and let them see how similar their hatred is to Falwell's hatred, and I guess it would be hard to really argue that two wrongs don't make it right, because it is so fun to get even. But how about this? Have any of you grave dancers considered that Falwell is dead, but the reason he made such a splash is that he had a lot of followers? Has it occured to you that dancing on Falwell's grave is going to fire them up against the Democrats all the more? Has it occured to you that a lot of independents and moderates are religious, and making us look like we are attacking religion and just as hateful as Falwell will turn them off to our causes and will help the Republicans win in 08?

Saying Falwell is a xxxx is preaching to the choir.

[skepticscott]

445. What planet have you been living on?

As bad as Falwell was, did he ever use such hateful language in public?

What I am seeing on these boards is much more blatant hatred than I have EVER seen Falwell eminate. Some of it rivals Coulter!!!

How is it that people get so hate-filled?

I know those who are all fired up and grousing their hate feathers are not going to listen to someone speaking of how hate is bad, and it would probably be difficult to put a mirror in front of their faces and let them see how similar their hatred is to Falwell's hatred, and I guess it would be hard to really argue that two wrongs don't make it right, because it is so fun to get even. But how about this? Have any of you grave dancers considered that Falwell is dead, but the reason he made such a splash is that he had a lot of followers? Has it occured to you that dancing on Falwell's grave is going to fire them up against the Democrats all the more? Has it occured to you that a lot of independents and moderates are religious, and making us look like we are attacking religion and just as hateful as Falwell will turn them off to our causes and will help the Republicans win in 08?

The answer is YES. He used hateful, despicable language in public all the time, and that was when he knew people were watching. I'll leave it to your imagination to think of what he was like in private, when he was surrounded by people as hateful as he was. How can you even begin to presume to comment on the man without knowing this?

And as far as the hate on this board, try anger instead. Anger that an evil man like Falwell was allowed space to live and breathe. Falwell openly advocated and hoped for the deaths of millions and millions of people...name me ONE person on this board who even approaches that, or apologize to everyone for such a disgusting comment.

And as far as influencing the votes of Falwell's followers, how many of them could you possibly imagine aren't already voting hard-core Republican and always have been (other than the whackos voting for Roy Moore and the Constitution Party)? And don't kid yourself about the independents and moderates...most of them probably thought as little of Falwell as the people here, as were as disgusted with him as any decent Christian would be. What's on this board won't influence anybody's vote for president in a year and half. Please

[SlipperySlope]

I agree - buit I am more than outnumbered here.

Civilized people don't publicly rejoice in the death of another human being, even if we rejoice in the death of what he stood for.

The headline on the home page is just ugly, and beneath us. Are we turning into what we despise in our opposition?

[AlCzervik]

15. Did he ever once apologize for his vitriol? I'm not dancing on his grave

but please, the horrible things this man said and did will have a negative lasting effect on this country for years.

[LostinVA]

28. Excellent post -- exactly

I'm very, very happy that horrible man in no longer breathing the same air as me. If evil is a real characteristic, that's what he was. He was a nasty sexist, racist, homophobic piece of garbage who used Christ's message of love and compassion to spread a message of filth and hate.

Unfortunately, I don't believe in Hell.

[ellacott]

16. It is really disappointing to see this kind of reaction

People were outraged on this board when Molly Ivins was treated in this manner by the freepers.

It creeps me out also and serves to reinforce many opinions regarding democrats. I'm wondering the maturity level of many of these celebrants.

[libnnc]

25. Molly Ivins never damned people to hell every Sunday of her life

Fallwell made a career out of saying hurtful, horrible things.

[ellacott]

37. It makes no difference, Jerry had no heaven or hell to put you into

It is still no better than the freepers.

[libnnc]

55. How many young people's lives did he ruin

preaching his homophobic garbage? How many gay/lesbian young people committed suicide because of his message?


Don't expect sympathy from those of us on this board who are GLBT. He made our lives miserable.

[ellacott]

75. Who said anything about sympathy

He was not the only one making your life miserable. It won't stop just because he's dead. With you guys it's always black or white.

Do your thing.

[libnnc]

91. "With you guys it's always black or white" "...Do your thing"

Whatever.

[fishwax]

154. wow

"With you guys it's always black or white."

:wtf:

[Duncan Grant]

222. And with" you guys" it's always equivocating bullshit.

Nice generalization about "you guys". That speaks volumes.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

93. yeah whatever. the anger this man incited effects a lot of us personally

maybe you could ignore him and he didnt affect your life. you cant make that statement about everyone.

:eyes:

[ellacott]

111. Like I said, black or white, that's all many of you all see

Who said I was ignoring him? How do you know he didn't affect my life? I'm getting the feeling that you are only thinking about your own personal offense. Through the years people have been murdered, mistreated and been discriminated against.

Because I'm not dancing and singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" doesn't mean I am ignoring it and he didn't affect my life. It's most sad that more of you can't understand that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. well i am not dancing or singing, but i am sure glad there is one less homophobe in the world.

:woohoo:

i am sure many people mourned hitler too :eyes:

[ellacott]

122. Who knows, they probably did, someone probably mourned Strom Thurmond too

That really doesn't make a point. Black or White.:eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

some things are black or white. thats what having ethics is about.

i refuse to let a man like jerry falwell get away with murder just because of mere politeness.

[ellacott]

134. This is an example of things not being black or white

How are you not letting him get away with anything when he's done it and he's dead? Who said anything about mere politeness?

Like I said, Do your thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

i was doing my thing. then you accused my thing of being wrong. so i had to defend my thing.

my thing is going well. glad hes dead.

[ellacott]

140. Now you have my permission to go back to it.

I'm quite sure your thing is going well to you.

[earthlover]

398. problem is...it was Falwell who saw things in black or white....

similarities abound....

[ellacott]

540. Yep, that makes some of us no better than him n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

569. so you think liberals cant take any moral stance? because it makes them look unliberal

thats highly stupid.

[Mad_Dem_X]

41. Exactly

Falwell was evil and a hypocrite. May he rot in Hell.

[jazzjunkysue]

201. Amen. n/t.

[NaturalHigh]

238. There are hypocrites on every board.

I wonder how many people on here expressed outrage about freeper conduct (which I understand was despicable) when Molly Ivins died.

[libnnc]

255. Did Molly Ivins make a living damning people who died of AIDS to hell?

No. Incorrect comparison.

[JuniperLea]

343. Well said!

Nothing wrong in celebrating when something evil dies and will no longer hurt others.

It's God's will he's dead.

[NaturalHigh]

612. I'm sure that most freepers...

feel the same way about Ivins that you do about Falwell. Cheering about someone dying is just morbid.

[CreekDog]

366. Don't question the maturity of the celebrants

There is no maturity to question.

Country is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Occulus]

500. As far as I know, Ivins didn't want a bunch of people dead n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Agreed

[SoCalDem]

18. Hey.. It's the day he meets JESUS. He'd want a celebration

wouldn't he?:evilgrin:

and he did not die a lingering painful death..

[Ezlivin]

110. Ding, ding! We have a winner.

Disclaimer: I was a fundamentalist preacher.

Yes, everyone should be celebrating. Jerry is in the arms of Jesus. He has no more suffering, no more pain and an eternity of bliss doing what he claimed he wanted to do: Worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

Me? I'm glad the fat fuck is gone. He sowed more discord, more hatred and more lies than many other men. He preached from a bully pulpit and never personified true Christian attributes. While he preached hard against some sins of the flesh like homosexuality, he never saw a piece of fried chicken that he couldn't squeeze down his gullet.

“Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.” (Luke 21:8-9)

[noamnety]

348. Why throw his weight into it?

I always wonder when I see things like that, like "fat fuck" what you are saying about fat people, and why.

Isn't it enough that he was homophobic, full of hate, and all that?

Why is his body shape an issue to you, unless you feel some level of contempt for overweight people in general?

[Ezlivin]

543. I feel contempt for hypocrites

I've got overweight people in my family; my only sister is a veritable balloon, yet I love her.

I don't dislike, hate or abhor the horizontally challenged. However, I do dislike fat fucks who tell me about the speck in my eye when they've got a two-by-four jutting from their skull.

[noamnety]

548. I don't like hypocrites either

but there's an ugliness in tying weight to something like that. Would you say something like that - call someone a "fat fuck" - in front of your sister?

I understand calling him a hypocritical hate-filled ass.

What I don't get is the added message, which I doubt you intended, the "and all the rest of you should remember, you'll always on some level be judged because of your appearance" bit that's thrown into several of these posts. I think those are destructive in a way that is completely separate from the issue of the sort of bigotry falwell spread in his life.

On another forum, not DU, I just read about one of my friends going to get coffee at Dunkin Donuts. The cashier asked her if she wanted anything else - a muffin, a donut? She said no. He looked at her (she's overweight) and said "well, you probably don't need it."

It's just so rude, and unnecessary, that a person can't go about their normal business without constantly being judged about something that isn't anyone else's business. That was basically the problem with Falwell, as well - though on a much grander scale. He couldn't keep his idiot nose out of people's lives even when those people weren't affecting him in any way at all.

It's related to that. His political life is all of our business, because it affected all of us. And I don't think we need a respectful waiting period to critique that. His weight ... not so much. A smack down about him being fat doesn't hurt him at all - he's dead. The only people it hurts are OTHER overweight people who have to face the perpetual I'm-not-good-enough-I'm-not-skinny-enough message hour after hour, day after day, even when they are trying to run an errand as simple as just going for a cup of coffee.

[Ezlivin]

555. Try this perspective

Let's say that Falwell was hypocritical in an area other than gluttony. What other sin is so readily apparent without video evidence? Lying? Cheating?

The one thing about gluttony is that it's easily discerned by even a casual observer. Hence I called him out on the one thing that nearly everyone could easily see.

I've been called "crippled" and "gimp." So what? I'm in a wheelchair and I'm very obviously different than others. If Benny Hinn was in a wheelchair and yet claimed to have the power to cure others, I'd call him a crippled fuck.

[noamnety]

558. That's exactly the animosity toward overweight people I am objecting to

Overweight people are - in YOUR consciousness, on some level - gluttons and sinners. Even a casual observer can tell they are gluttons and sinners just by glancing at them.

THAT's the message you just sent.

It's negative, it's judgmental, it's ugly, and it's a message that a whole mess of people - but NOT Falwell - are absorbing now, thanks to you.

And I'm guessing you KNOW it's ugly. You KNOW yours would be an offensive post to forward to your sister, no? And you likely wouldn't forward it to her, because she's your family ... why offend her?

I am saying that a lot of people who read this board are also probably overweight, and they are someone's family, too. If you wouldn't send that message to your sister - overweight people are gluttons and sinners - why would you send it to these other people?

Why spread that message?

[Ezlivin]

584. Let me try this one more time

Please show me the visible manifestations of "sin"; provide images that without the use of captions perfectly illustrate a Christian "sin."

Now back to Falwell....it's almost obvious that you are not going to look at him and see an illustration of greed, lust,envy, pride and etc.

However, when you see a picture of him with his jowls, thick neck and more than ample midsection you instantly know that as a Christian he was guilty of gluttony, a sin against which he never preached a single sermon.

What is that called? Hypocrisy.

My sister, my aunt, my uncle, my niece and many of my friends are way overweight. But I don't criticize them because they are not standing in public telling other people that they need to get rid of sin in their lives.

Can you understand the difference in the way I treat hypocrites and the way I treat those who don't preach at others?

Once you understand that you will not take umbrage at my opprobrium directed toward Falwell and others of his ilk.

[noamnety]

610. Sorry, I think I get your point, but I still find it offensive

It's okay to be a "fat" "glutton" as long as you don't pretend to be a Christian and talk about ethics, cause then you'd be a hypocrite.

The thing is, some Christians probably try to persuade others that war is wrong. And I bet you don't call them fat hypocritical fucks - even though, by your logic, they would be hypocritical to teach Christian values if they aren't skinny enough.

Some Christians try to persuade others about issues you disagree with. And then it's okay to use "fat" as an insult, cause everyone can see they're a "glutton."

Despite your justifications, "fat" in the way you used it is insulting, offensive, and hateful.

[calimary]

497. What. A. Great. Quote!!!

“Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.” (Luke 21:8-9)

Thanks, Ezlivin! This one applies EVERY DAY, for those who'd insist the rapture is near or some such thing, or those who'd claim to be holier-than-thou. We see numerous such specimens in this day and age.

And to the new (or infrequently posting) people here - Welcome to DU!

MANY conflicting feelings about falwell. No wonder everyone has strong opinions. And I can agree with every one of them. The man left behind a lot of pain, which turned to anger, which ironically means many demons to have to exorcise.

We could, however, view it as instructional. I doubt anyone would want to leave behind a "legacy" that inspires some of the talk we've seen here. I wouldn't want such vitriol spewed because of the kind of life I'd led or the effect I'd had on people. I mean, when I think back on the reverend falwell, I'm afraid the flow of thought will always screech to a halt when I recall that, as a liberal feminist and supporter of both the ACLU, the rights of gays, and the right of a woman to have the last word over her body, I'M one of those who caused September 11th, according to him. He apologized after that remark drew a huge cry of public outrage, but the grim fact is that he said it to begin with, it was his first reaction, and what people blurt often cuts straight to the heart of what they truly believe. He meant it. Evidently, he sincerely felt that way. He retracted his comments but I doubt he changed his mind about them. I will learn to shrug that one off someday. Unfortunately, I've still got a long struggle to reach that goal.

[buff2]

19. Did you have this same kind of sympathy for Suddam

when he was hung and his neck broken and twisted around? He was human too. Oh wait.......it's only the repukelicans we are supposed to pay respect too. :puke:

[Atman]

42. What a bizarre question!

I had no argument with Saddam. Probably far less so than I had with Falwell. After all, Saddam was our guy, installed by our government. Your "point" is kinda like the way republicans scream "9/11! 9/11! 9/11!" every time you try to bring up the atrocity that is the war on Iraq. It evokes an emotion, but one totally devoid of any rational thought behind it.

.

[Dervill Crow]

68. Actually, I didn't celebrate or mourn Saddam Hussein's death.

I can't be happy about anyone's death, even though in all honesty part of me is glad they are no longer hurting others.

There is a distinction there.

on edit: I'm a textbook Libra. I see both sides of everything, dammit, and it wreaks havoc with the decision-making process.

[Kelvin Mace]

70. Agreed. Saddam was executed

in a Kangaroo Court. Falwell ate himself to death.

Saddam wasn't worth the number of people who have died taking him out.

I judge him as he judged me and those like me. Some folks need to understand the damage that jackal did.

[Pacifist Patriot]

305. Funny you should draw the comparison. I had exactly the same kind of reaction.

A weird feeling of mild relief the man in question had passed, but a twinge of sympathy for those who knew and loved him. And absolutely no desire to hurl epithets at either one. What's the point?

[jobycom]

21. There are sick people around here, and this isn't the first death they've celebrated.

Being liberal isn't about particular views one holds. It's about respecting other people, including their enemies. I don't see enough liberals on DU at times, sadly.

[dbonds]

273. What is there to respect about someone who harms so much?

I can't respect him. I might can have some sympathy as I would to see a bear about to eat me and maul me to death killed in front of me. But that is it. He only gets the bare living thing sympathy thing, not respect.

[renate]

292. that seems like a pretty accurate comparison

Very accurate, IMHO.

If the bear weren't attacking you, you wouldn't feel relieved at his death. But he did, so you do.

If he'd left you alone, you'd be sad about the death of a living creature. But he didn't, so you don't.

Same with evil people. We wouldn't be happy to see them gone if they had left the rest of us alone. (I'm not actively rejoicing at his death, but I can't work up any sadness about it--only about the sadness of the way he wasted his life on a long series of cruel and selfish acts.) Jerry Falwell made a lot of people's lives hell (in the name of God, which is extra-offensive to some of us). People died horrible deaths as a direct result of his political influence. He was a bad, bad, bad man.

I personally don't think of death as final, which is another reason I'm not all that sad about this. I'm sorry for his family and I wouldn't wish that sorrow on them, but the world will be a better place for his departure from it.

[earthlover]

406. Great post!!!!!

I have seen too many Falwells-of-a-leftist-stripe and not enough common sense here today.

[dogday]

22. I don't like to be a hypocrite

I couldn't stand him in life and in death, I still can't stand him... Why are we supposed to act like a bunch of phonies when someone dies? Why should we not tell the truth of what we feel? I never understood that...

[orleans]

417. maybe some people believe if you haven't got anything NICE to say

then you SHOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

well....screw that.

i say: falwell was a fucking asshole. i'm glad he's dead. wish he had died years ago--he was a dose of poison to our country. fuck him.

[Cobalt Violet]

536. I agree. Screw that.

Nice is so over rated. :party: Farwell's dead :party:

[Maven]

556. This is exactly what it boils down to

Hypocrisy.

And these saccharin, apologist "show some respect" posts are only making their authors look more and more ridiculous.

[durrrty libby]

24. I could care less about him, but "he was still a man with a family and loved ones."

Saddam had loved ones too

The man was truly noxious, and people will celebrate

I believe that is human nature

[huskerlaw]

26. Agreed.

I'll admit that I'm not shedding any tears, but some of the hate-filled posts are a bit out-of-bounds.

[hyphenate]

27. I totally agree, as I posted in another thread

By showing our hatred and our pleasure at his death we're showing we are nearly as bad as the conservatives. We KNOW they're rotten to the core, but we don't need to show that we're no different.

On the other hand, if it were a certain blonde, anorexic, sharp-tongued female pundit who had just died, I would be celebrating like there was no tomorrow. ;) (Of course I could get into trouble if I actually named her, but if it helps, her initials are AC)

[lebkuchen]

29. Can I just ask...

Did he die at the race track?

[dolo amber]

30. Sorry, MOM.

[bonito]

31. I agree, it is creepy.

[Nightjock]

32. We are no better than the freepers

at that disgusting FR website. CASE CLOSED.

And I read the anti Falwell threads and I agree with MOST of them. But the body is not even cold yet. WOW.

[NYC Liberal]

43. No better?

So the difference between calling him out on what he openly did and supported now and, say, in a few days, will be what? He's still dead.

It's not like we're giving an oration at his funeral or something.

[Kelvin Mace]

80. I beg to differ

First, Freepers are advocating our death BEFORE the fact. They would happily gas us all if they had the power.

Falwell died of his gluttony and not because I, or anyone else, wished him dead.

If it were in my power to slay every Freeper and neo-con on the planet I would not do it. So please, do not claim that those who are glad to see an evil self-destruct are kin to evil.

[earthlover]

412. I think some Dems WANT to lose elections....

...on these boards we have offended religious people, moderates who have the common sense to respect the dead, we have proven to everyone who can read that the religious right does not have a monopoly on vengeful and judgemental hatred.....now we poke fun at overweight people!

Hey, guys and gals, let's turn 08 into a landslide the Republicans and think up every group of American voters we can piss off today! Go for it! SARC

I am so TIRED of Republican rule! I am so TIRED of the religious right! And I am so TIRED of some people on our side making it easier for both groups to gain more power. Please, if you are going to say things that piss off independents, join the Republican party and a fundamentalist church!!!!

[Phredicles]

33. You may well be a better person than I, but I'd like to whiz on the corpse

while it's still at least luke-warm.:evilgrin:

[Mad_Dem_X]

45. Ha! n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

86. He is not worth the urine.

[mitchum]

34. Dancing? I would be kicking that putrid grifter's corpse if it were possible

Good Riddance

[enid602]

35. happy

Fogive me, but hearing the news this AM is the closest I've come to felling one of Cheney's or Tobias' 'happy endings.'

[Kelvin Mace]

36. Do you ask Jews to mourn Hitler's death? Black's to mourn Thurmond's?

A rabid dog has been slain by the very "God" he proclaimed to speak for (I assume this to be the case since Falwell and his ilk were always calling on their "God" to slay people like us).

He rejected sound medical advice to stop eating and lose weight. He rejected science and has enjoyed the fruits of that decision.

Do I celebrate? No, as he is not worthy of my time. But this man stood up and created a legion of hate that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, with his "AIDS is God's punishment" lie.

His family will mourn him, what more is expected?

[patrice]

38. Another Victory for the "Christian" "Right" :- (

There's nothing like prooving folks like Falwell are right in their opinions of whomever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

169. their opinion that god hates fags? exactly how are we validating that opinion?

[Duncan Grant]

226. Victory my ass.

I am now convinced that the majority of DU couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag. :puke:

[CJCRANE]

39. This is classic DU.

Both the jumping for joy and the hand-wringing.

[Arugula Latte]

217. It happens all the time. The last big blow out, I think was the Reagasm.

[PassingFair]

277. This is classic HUMAN. n/t

[gatorboy]

40. I just hope the gay hooker he collapsed on pulls through.

[Blue-Jay]

46. Shame, shame, shame! Poo-poo is your name!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

excuse me? this is a man who blamed feminists and gay men for sept 11.

get over it.

the man was evil i am glad he is dead.

why should i be a hypocrite about it?

this is the kind of man who incites hatred against me and my chosen family.

sheesh! have some sympathy for your gay brethren, why dont you?

[melody]

47. You're a much better person than I am, I admit, so I'll continue to throw a party

:party:

[pgw]

48. It seems as if

we have so few real victories. I'll take what I can get.

[RiverStone]

49. He founded the Moral Majority...

Something that has had reprehensible and bigoted consequences for many folks since --- as much as it disgusted me, Falwell had a right to express his narrow minded beliefs.

So given that theme, who would you propose sets the moral barometer on DU?

I understand you find the celebrations in poor taste; yet where would you propose DU draws the line?
Drawing moral lines is exactly why many of us could not stand Falwell's rhetoric.

I choose not to celebrate, but simply point out who the man was in HIS own words.

per this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=889785&mesg_id=889785

[TahitiNut]

53. Let's just keep feeding on feeding each other, piranhas!

"I'm holier than thou!"

"No! I am!"




DU's favorite pastime ... posturing and scolding.

:puke:

[hlthe2b]

182. umm hmmm....

It is so very important to some to "one up" everyone else with their sanctimony...

'Guess that works, until their ox is getting gored...

[MuseRider]

54. Thank you Atman.

The man did so much harm to this country and I will always hate what he did, what he stood for and how he hurt so many people but I can't rejoice in his death. The man had family. I have lost too many to ever be able to forget that he was loved and important to some people. Like it was with Reagan, Ford and many others I will have to go away and not watch. I place much of the blame for the damage he caused on the stupid people who allowed him to think for them.

Thank you for saying this so well.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

56. Who are we to judge?

I can only speak for myself, but when I celebrate with hatred, it causes problems within my own being. For one thing, I lose the peace that is very important to me. Anger and hatred can have, I believe, negative physiological effects, and I know those two emotions tend to harm the people practicing them rather than the objects of their hatred and anger.

So, fellow DUers, if nothing else, consider the effects of hatred and anger on your own being.

[Strawman]

97. That's how I feel, but I also won't judge those here who respond differently

I don't have any sympathy for the man. I can think of billions of others more deserving of that, but I won't celebrate his death. I just don't want to go there spirtually and emotionally because I don't like what it does to me. Has nothing to do with him.

But I can recognize that if I were gay, if I were a woman, If I had lost a loved one to AIDS, or if I were an individual who was in some way more directly and personally targeted by this man's hatred, I might be reacting differently. So I'm not going to judge those who are glad he is dead or feel too concerned about how others will troll this site and use this reaction as a flimsy, transparent, post hoc warrant to hate us.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

108. Yes, that's the trick

by reminding others about not judging, you must be careful you are not judging yourself. I'll try to frame my responses on why this is a personal choice for me.

[Balbus]

57. Some people are just so full of hate that when an release-valve

is made available, they empty out as much hate as they can. Some would say it's almost medicinal. Yes, it's disgusting to see the filth they type out, but would it be worse if they kept their hatred all bottled up inside of them until it explodes ala Virginia Tech or Columbine?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

74. thats bullshit.

its not like i personally killed fallwell, but after the crap he spewed against my community, i am glad he's dead.

[Balbus]

146. Case in point.

Please, I'd rather you let it out here than keeping it in till you explode. It's safer for everyone.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

156. cut the condescension.

i am hardly a loose cannon. i just don't believe in hypocrisy. i don't believe death gives an asshole a free pass.

[Balbus]

187. Feel better?

I sure hope so.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

194. yawn

:boring:

[Raksha]

60. Aren't the wingnuts in Florida planning a big celebration

when Fidel Castro passes? I find myself feeling a certain satisfaction that Castro managed to outlive Falwell. I guess there's SOME justice in the world anyway (granted, not a whole lot).

[whopis01]

565. If you are using the term "wingnut" to refer to Cubans that fled to America

then, yes you are correct.

[jean]

61. I agree. This vitriol on DU just feeds The Hate - feel it, read it, act on it.

Accomplishing nothing and lowering the discourse to 'their' level.

[Flying Dream Blues]

62. I agree...I'm usually proud of DU, but that fartwell/f*ckwell stuff is just not ok. nt

[jean]

I'm ashamed to have corrected the guys spelling - he came back and edited his words

to make it so very crass. Just - - - ugh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. I added this sentiment on its own thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x890416

And I agree with you

[cwydro]

64. I agree.

I don't think I have to say anything good about him, but this ugly glee is just wrong. And very juvenile.

[jgraz]

65. You know what creeps me out? Faux-compassion for dead monsters

And people who tell all of us how we should feel, rather than owning up to how they, themselves, really feel.

The fact is that the world became a slightly better place as soon as that asshole's black heart stopped beating. It's just too bad he escaped without ever really paying for all the suffering he caused.

[Atman]

82. I'm not TELLING anybody how they SHOULD feel.

Feel anything you want. Wallow in your hatred, I don't care. But when you publicly post your hatred and your vitriol you simply become another Jerry Falwell; one who claimed to be about peace and brotherhood, but preached a gospel of hate and division.

What ever happened to being better than that sort of bullshit? Or is most of DU just as hypocritical and two-faced as Falwell? Personally, I don't find that anything to celebrate, either.

.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. but most of us arent preachers of the gospel. and dont pretend to relay gods words to humanity.

[jgraz]

106. Nope, you're just saying you're better because you're such a compassionate person

Give me a fucking break. You want to put on some bullshit Sunday Dress Up Republican-style hypocrisy, be my guest. But don't tell the rest of us who have ACTUAL EMOTIONS that you're somehow better than us or that we're "becoming" another Jerry Fucking Falwell.

I could walk out of my house today and shoot 20 toddlers in the back of the head. Then maybe set 50 gay men on fire. Then rape a few dozen pregnant teenagers. Then, maybe, after doing that every day for 30 years, you could say I was becoming another Jerry Falwell.

Until then, you can kiss my ass.

[ScreamingWhisper]

135. When did Jerry Falwell

rape pregnant teens, go pyromaniac on gay men and shoot toddlers in the head??? Did I miss tha FauxNews special report?

[Atman]

229. Remember, he killed millions of Jews and Cambodians, too.

:eyes:

He's been compared to Pol Pot and Hitler in this thread several times. I'm skeered for DU. Many seem to have lost all sense of historical perspective.

.

[CreekDog]

361. Yes, Falwell is so bad that they have to invent things that he did

To make him sound as bad as he was.

This thing that they are doing, it's for our own good.

If we just relied on what Falwell actually did, then we wouldn't realize he was as bad as Pol Pot or Hitler. Thanks to these thoughtful posters, through deceit, we can appreciate how evil Mr. Falwell was.

We thank those posters graciously for their savviness in mixing fact with hyperbole.

[maddezmom]

112. I'm not hypocritical, I'm sorry he's dead

as I am for anyone who dies. But I didn't agree with his views when he was on this earth so why should I give him compliments or praise now? :shrug:

[Occulus]

499. We SHOULD hate evil

There's nothing wrong with truly hating genuine evil. That's what this man embodied.

I submit you weren't his direct, consistent target- like I and many others here were.

What happened to trying to be better than that bullshit was, some of us realized that being "better than that bullshit" essentially means letting 'them' get away with it and 'letting it go'. I tried to be 'better' than that for a big part of my life, and all I got was walked on by the people I was 'better' than. Fuck that. I'm not 'better' than anyone else. It's the fact that I don't go pushing my preferred way of life on everyone else I don't agree with that makes me right and him and people like him wrong.

I don't feel bad or sullied or dirtied by any of this. Today, my world became a slightly better place.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

89. ...

:thumbsup:

[MrPrax]

155. Not kidding...good point!!

It really is creeping me out and I've been noting 'nicks.

I can't figure out which is more appalling; the 'oh let's worry about what rightwing dickhead supporters of Fuckwell think' or the 'we're no better than them for the 'hate' schtick'. Falwell was a living breathing example of pure hate!!??

And people who tell all of us how we should feel, rather than owning up to how they, themselves, really feel.

Yuppers!! Very close to the truth as to what might be really going on...I am not buying and I find their comments to be offensive especially when they start telling people how to act.

Maybe some of these folks better start coming clean as to why they would even think a civilized person wouldn't be dancing in the aisles at the death of this hate mongering pig? The guy was pure evil.

[Guaranteed]

179. My compassion is not faux.

You know why? Because it stems from my understanding of my OWN shortcomings.

[jgraz]

272. Your own shortcomings? You mean you beat up gays and bombed abortion clinics?

Or at least cheered on those who were doing it?

I find it hard to believe that your own shortcomings are even in the same galaxy as those of this sociopath. This is another stealth-christian meme that has no practical value in modern society: "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone" and all that. Bah.

For those of us able to think in shades of grey, it's easy to see that Falwell's sins far exceed those of most normal people. One doesn't need to be completely innocent to recognize when someone could do with a good stoning. I say hand me a fuckin rock and gimme room.

[CreekDog]

344. You just undermined all your other posts

Falwell didn't sanction that.

Egads, you're tacitly saying that Falwell was a better man because to make him sound bad, you attribute things to him that he didn't do, like bomb abortion clinics and beat up gays or support those actions.

Give me a break.

Is there any respect for the truth anymore?

Can't you just stick to things that actually happened,
MR. IMNOTRIGHTSODONTUSEMYWORDSAGAINSTME.

[jgraz]

397. Can someone help CreekDog out here?

Ask Matthew Shepherd how Falwell's hatred of gays affected him. Oh wait...

[CreekDog]

435. Falwell didn't tell anybody to kill Sheperd or do it himself

You want to say that he killed people or encouraged the killing of them, prove it.

You can't. He didn't encourage it anymore than you encouraged Falwell's death. In fact, by your words, it appears you wanted Falwell dead more than Falwell ever wanted any gay person or Sheperd dead.

You just hate being called on what you say because of its inaccuracies.

If you don't like it, don't lie, that's all.

I don't need the help, you do if you can't tell the difference between those who murder and those who don't.

[jgraz]

477. Like I said, somebody else needs to take up this burden

I did the whole "removing scales from people's eyes" during the gun debate. Somebody else's turn.

In the meantime, you might consider getting a job as a republican defense attorney. You've got the schtick down: "He didn't mean it", "He never directly told anyone", etc, etc, etc. Next you'll say he was just following orders.

Edit: looks like somebody did. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=896159&mesg_id=896159

Go argue with madspirit. I'm bored with you.

[Maven]

557. Oh bullshit.

Saying that we deserved to die of AIDS wasn't wishing us dead?

Where the fuck are you coming from?

Really, this is going overboard.

[Maven]

223. Well said. nt

[Duncan Grant]

240. Excellent observation.

And people who tell all of us how we should feel, rather than owning up to how they, themselves, really feel.

Nail meet hammer. :thumbsup:

[trekbiker]

337. I would'nt dance on his grave..

piss on it maybe...

same goes for Dubya, Hitler, Stalin, Coulter, Hannity, Limpballs, Savage.. and on and on

fuck them all.

[jgraz]

341. Exactly -- it's hard to dance while you're taking a piss

:rofl:

[Malikshah]

66. Who's dancing? He was--on the graves of thousands who died because of his

hatred.

Give it up already.

Falwell's passing is God's mea culpa...too bad God waited too long. Millions are dead because of the likes of Falwell.

[CreekDog]

262. Malik: God doesn't "mea culpa" --else we wouldn't exist

[EFerrari]

69. Accepting the unacceptable is not acceptance but complicity. n/t

[Touchdown]

71. Nonsense. The man was a parasite

Who cried for Torquemada, Vlad the Impaler, Rudolph Hess, Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, Napoleon, Hitler or Timothy McVeigh? Who will cry over Castro or bin Laden's death?

Falwell was a hardened segregationist/anti-semite who had a radio platform to spew his hate and gather the funds to enrich himself by preying on that hatred. This was long before he joined forces with Paul Weyrich to form the Moral Majority which not only put Reagan in power, but so much so that he had the ear of the President. That is an unbelievable amount of power for a man so disdainful of literally 3/54th the American people to have a say over their (our) lives.

It was his words spewed over the public's airwaves(and his imitators) that incited people to violence against abortion clinics, gay people, and especially the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. How many people died of AIDS because he believed it was a judgment from God, and had Reagan's ear, and Reagan did nothing but let people die. How many more are dying in Africa because of his influence in making sure anything we do must center around "abstinence only" policies?

This man, his riches, and his influence over public policy in the USA dating back to the early 60s has caused nothing but strife, fear, violence, and death no matter what kind of "nice Christian" face he put on it. He was a modern day Torquemada, and I for one, will not apologize for being glad his reign of terror is over.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. You're a better man than I am, Atman.

[grace0418]

73. I think this is one of those times to follow that old "if you can't say anything nice..."

advice your mom told you. You won't be hearing any eulogies from me because I don't think dying absolves you from your actions while alive. However, I think it stoops to the level of Freeper to dance on anyone's grave.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Although I will admit in advance that when that day comes for Cheney and Bush I will have a hard restraining myself.

[TZ]

115. I agree with you 100%

I don't want to send condolences, but its not classy to bash newly dead people no matter what your political affiliations are. We are better then them right? Let's prove we are ABOVE the freepers and fundies and show RESPECT.

[grace0418]

507. Sadly, you and I seem to be in the minority. I guess we're okay with freeper tactics

as long as we're employing them. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

[mwb970]

538. Show *respect* for Falwell? Why??

Sorry, I just can't get with the "respect the dead" sentiment in this case. This was an evil man who spread hate and discord in the name of Jesus. I can't think of a bigger, more direct sin. He wasn't going to stop his evil ways until he died. Now he has died. His evil ways have stopped. I am glad for America.

I am sorry if you and others have a problem with this. I am just telling you how I feel.

[Greyhound]

76. Whats the big deal? In the words of William Munny, "We've all got it comin', kid".

He was a thoroughly reprehensible creep, how does he rate any respect or grief when his whole life was devoted to causing misery. Let us not forget how, in life, he never hesitated to rejoice in the suffering of others he disliked and to publicly wish all manner of punishment, including death on others.

[supernova]

77. Home Page points to different thread

in LBN now.

I thought JF was absolutely revolting in everything he said and I am sorry he hurt so many people. But I will never revel in anyone's death, including someone with whom I vehemently disagreed.

[Blue Belle]

78. I agree...

I associate tombstone tap-dancing and unbridled joy over a person's death with the freeper element - I guess I hold DU to a higher standard. I by no means agree with Fallwell or his politics - in fact I found him to be vile - but he will account for his misdeeds in this world now (according to his religion). IT's our job to fix the "god work" he has done... not revel over the corpse.

[Left Is Write]

79. This comes up every time someone of prominence dies.

Every time. Without fail.

However, I don't think Falwell would have shed any tears at the deaths of any of his political or religious rivals.

[Vinnie From Indy]

81. I figure Jerry finally got to find out if his God approved of his work

I know that I disliked his viewpoints on most issues. Other than that, I offer condolences to his family and loved ones.

[coffeenap]

83. Mine is a sense of relief. This person no longer has influence over

the inner workings of OUR government. I am sorry for the sadness his loved ones will feel, but I cannot be personally sorry that he is no longer alive. Perhaps it does show a shortcoming I should work on, but, I cannot find much sympathy in my heart. When an evil person leaves this world, it is hard to feel sad.

[jollyreaper2112]

84. if you can't say something nice....

Well, I can't, not about him. So instead...

[greguganus]

85. I agree.

May his family find peace.

[sniffa]

87. you think this is bad?

fuck him and Let the worms eat him.

and you know who i'LL bLame for it? the gays, the abortionists, and the pagans.

[PATRICK]

88. Brutally speaking

all the grave dancing is bad for another reason. No one is examining his life or death as it merits get to the truth that is left to harmless historians to sift. Anyone discussing the circumstances or consequences of his life and the circumstances of his death? What happens to his part in the VRWC now?

Even the tawdry notion of another Scarborough type incident is a painful unkind but more relevant and less demeaning thing. Nothing is advanced by the death of one member of a dangerous clique. There is nothing to gloat over or celebrate.

To make one even harder and coldly repulsive, like a medical examiner or auditor swooping in on a crime scene, flies against every reaction allowed or bloviated against in the mainstream media temple. The first victim when he hit the floor was the truth. That we can try to resurrect to do some good to redeem all the bloated harm caused by his chosen life role.

Forget the mourning, the Schaudenfreude, the cherished nicknames, the expected polite reactions. Always look to the truth. If a man died who did not serve the truth then the truth will serve itself upon him- unless we cloud it over with obligatory forgetfulness, blindness and even self protective avoidance.

Perhaps DU should strictly forego its unseemly emotional reactions and like the media, have obituaries well prepared detailing all the known public details of a person's contributions to his world. Simply. Stark. Probing and trying to make the world better for knowing it. The utter horror of a person turned in upon his own mind and heart and soul with self-satisfaction and entitled enjoyment unraveling into a dark vacuum is something perhaps withheld from all but those who have felt the brush of the wings. All the emotions go blank but the living can continue the destructive game for them. In that, we should break away from our active engagement and disagreement with him. That is all past. We still have to deal with the harm he has done. That entails work not the respite of mourning or dancing on the grave.

Let the Dead bury the dead.

[Atman]

98. I wish I could rec individual posts.

Thank you. Wonderful post.

.

[maddezmom]

90. Probaly not, but did Falwell have a finest hour? Here is his comment on 9/!!

All of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'" _ in an appearance on religious broadcaster Pat Robertson's "The 700 Club" in which he blamed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, on pagans, abortionists, feminists, homosexuals, the American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sorry for everyone that passes, but I have to admit I won't miss him at ALL.

[alcibiades_mystery]

92. Ahhhhhhhhh shaaaaaaddddduuuuuuuupppp

:rofl:

[truebrit71]

94. He declared that AIDS was God's judgement on gays....

I think that is FAR more creepy...

I believe he is about to learn the full meaning of the phrase "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself"....

[Atman]

114. Being an atheist, I am able to take his words at face value.

I think it's terribly ironic that you quote "judge not, lest ye be judged"...while judging Falwell.

He had no power to condemn me, you or anyone else to "hell." He was just another man with too much power, too much money, and a vivid imagination for the mystical.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

.

[truebrit71]

332. I'm not judging him...that's where you are wrong..

My opinion of him was that he was a hypocrite, a liar and a hateful biggot...It is up to God to judge him...

[MadBadger]

95. I knew this was going to happen. It is hard.

I think he was an awful person who said and did a lot of hateful things. I do not feel sorry that he is dead, but at the same time, I feel it isnt right to laugh and joke about falwell (well, I did make one). Its tough.

[Madspirit]

96. Cry me a fucking river

That's like saying, "let's show a little respect. Hitler died." My ass.

As a lesbian, this man thought I shouldn't even exist. I am doing a dance-around-the-room....whoohoohoo....ding dong the Evil Bastard is dead...ding dong the bastard's dead...whoohooohooo.

I don't mourn for Hitler clones. Sorry.
Lee

[greyghost]

392. Exactly...

This is me warming up to dance on the bastards grave!:bounce:

I truly hope that Pat Robertson joins him in hell soon!:evilgrin:

[ThomCat]

99. He will be remembered for what he did

and what he left behind. And if people are angry with him, don't like him, or have nothing good to say about him then that's what Falwell has earned.

I don't believe in making a fetish of the dead. They deserve no more after death than during their lives.

He's dead. He's a cold body that's now innert. As far as any rational person can prove there is nothing after death. He's gone and won't know or care about anything ever again.

[formercia]

101. Do you think Falwell would have done us any better?

I think not.

[Madspirit]

107. He DIDN'T do us any better

Son of a bitch. Thought people deserved AIDS...blamed us for 9/11. Whoohoohoo. Ding dong the Evil bastard is dead...he is dead...dead dead dead. I cannot wait until ALL the nazis die off. FUCK him and fuck all who mourn him because they would like to see ALL gays in a body bag.
Lee

[earthlover]

416. sounds like you want to see him in a body bag....

so how is your hatred better than his hatred? I would say it is equal. Your language is more crude than Falwell's though. And using that kind of language is preaching to the choir. Nobody who doesn't already agree with you will be impressed by it, and most who haven't made up their minds will wonder why you are so hateful.

[grace0418]

109. That's just it, though, isn't it? Falwell wouldn't have anything good to say about

any of us. But that's what makes him so despicable. And that's why we shouldn't stoop to his level.

Although I know it's difficult. And you won't hear any kind words coming from me just because he died. I'll just do my best not to say much...

[underpants]

118. Look what Falwell said while the World Trade Centers were still on fire

and tell me that we shouldn't treat him exactly the same way he treated others. F him.

[Atman]

121. So, you HATED the way he treated others, and therefore we should act the same way?

How exactly does that work? I'm a little confused.

.

[underpants]

127. No therefore involved

that is how he treated others so I am going to treat him the same way.

[grace0418]

185. An eye for an eye and the world goes blind.

I understand everyone's loathing of this toad, but can't we all be better than this?

[Madspirit]

385. *snerk*

There is a big big difference between venting and acting.
Lee

[ourbluenation]

148. turn the other cheek. i will not stoop to his level and therefore will not trash a freshly dead guy.

and make no mistake - i couldn't stand him.

[CreekDog]

263. Two wrongs doesn't make a right

Because someone did someone wrong is not a reason to do the same wrong to them.

Get a clue, this ethic is thousands of years old.

[Laurab]

456. Aren't we better than him?

I hope so.

[grace0418]

508. I'm starting to wonder. It's very disappointing. n/t

[sheerjoy]

103. Thank you

for what needed to be said.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

104. Truth is I don't really care about this one way of the other

He's dead. He was old and had a health condition and he died, it happens everyday to both the good and the bad among us. There are people who will feel sincere pain over the passing of a loved family member. For them I'm sorry, but he was not a healthy man so it can't come as too much of a shock. Still they'll grieve and they get the only measure of respect I feel over this situation.

I can't really find a reason to rejoice. His teachings of exclusion and hate didn't die with him. That torch will be picked up and carried by his chosen successor.

[DontTreadOnMe]

105. Top 10 Worst Americans of all time!

Jerry Falwell surely would make my list. I have to think about it, but he might be also in the Top 5.

Surely one not shed a tear for someone so divisive as Jerry Falwell.

re: "he was still a man with a family and loved ones"... so was Mussolini.

[mahina]

116. Agreed, it saddens me to see little smilies. It's the other guys' style.

We are supposed to be bigger than that.
No love lost for the man but we reduce our own humanity in indulging the cheap shot at a dead man.

[monarch]

117. Maybe not, but the man blamed ME for 911

I am a strong feminist, a fervent believer in a woman's right to choice in matters of contraception and abortion. I worked on the CT abortion case with my then partner, who has since died of a horrible genetic disease (Huntington's) that might have been helped if the first Pres Bush had not halted stem cell research.

My partner and I were both raised Catholic (a religion that some of Falwell's ilk don't even consider to be Christian.) While our abortion case was in the news, we and our VERY devout mothers had the pleasure of watching our? archbishop on a local talk show pondering the question of whether the lawyers on the case would be excommunicated.

And I have never even discussed with my mother the fact that I am a lesbian although she recognizes and loves my partner of more than 25 years. Would you like to talk gay marriage? How about the way the religious right has completely taken our government hostage on a whole lot of issues?

I haven't posted any nasty comments about Rv. Falwell, but I hope that you will understand why I will not mourn his passing. He was just one step away from protesting at veterans' funerals, but he was much more dangerous because he tried to sound reasonable most of the time.

[earth mom]

123. Most around here would agree-an evil man is gone from this planet. Why lie about it?

Sure maybe it's more P.C. to not say anything unkind, but you can't censor people because they are simply being honest.

[liberalEd]

124. You reap what you sow

I think that's in his holy text somewhere. He should have paid more attention.

So let this be a lesson. If you want to be remembered well after you die, work on it now.

[Swamp Rat]

125. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din.

I feel relieved that monster is dead.

[burythehatchet]

376. I hope you and I can have a beer some time

[baldguy]

128. Lovers of freedom & truth should fight corruption & evil.

Falwell was corrupt & evil. It is right & proper that we should celebrate his passing from this world.

[ThomCat]

129. Well said.

:applause:

[Madspirit]

163. Right On Baldguy!!...n/t

[Zenlitened]

570. Agreed.

"...Falwell was corrupt & evil. It is right & proper that we should celebrate his passing from this world."

[RedEarth]

130. I agree, but sadly this was a very predictable response by numerous posters on DU

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. Not really.

I've always respected the passing of those in leadership passing, but this man harmed so many. If you're not "born again" you were nothing to him. He's nothing to me.

[Justyce]

131. I agree... kind of goes against what

we're supposed to be about here. I hope the people I've told about this website don't visit for the first time today. He was still a human being with a family -- I really don't have any more nice things to say about him than that, so I will choose to say nothing else about him.

[BlooInBloo]

132. The taboo against being pleased with the death of evil people always confused me.

[karynnj]

136. Same here - it really really creeps me out

It is extremely disgusting.

[krispos42]

138. What else would silence him?

A stroke?

He had the type of job that he could do essentially until died or suffered brain damage. His job was to talk, to communicate.

And what did he choose to communicate?

A bastard mix of neocon political and economic objectives, religious intolerance, religious superiority, hatred for secular government, homophobia, evangelical radicalism, and the death of intelligent discourse in politics and society.

His death was natural. He did not die in a scandalous way or if he has, it hasn't come out yet. He lived a rich full life, died quickly, and left sizable assets for his family to live on.

His family and loved ones are already well aware of his effect on Americans of all stripes. This is no surprise to him or them. And there are enough people that loved him to keep facts and realities at bay. The right, which is the only side him and his familiy and loved ones will listen to or hear, will idolize him and lionize him as a 'Warrior of God' or some such line.

I do not know him personally, so my dislike does not come from that direction. However, as a secular American who feels that him, his followers, and his political and religious allies are a clear and present danger to the heath and safety of my country, my Constitution, myself, and my son, I feel no remose.

[JHB]

139. So what?

Just had to say it.

[Dukkha]

141. tolerance and respect is EARNED not given away at death

he certainly wasn't my "Brother" that I have to accept. :eyes:

[Moochy]

142. "Just had to say it"

You and all the another concerned Du'ers. .. :eyes:

[Spazito]

144. Well, imo, the difference is: DU has had some finest hours

even if this may not be one of them whereas falwell has NEVER had a finest hour only many despicable ones ie post 9/11 comments to name just one.

[Arkansas Granny]

145. Thanks, Atman. I feel the same way. I've been hiding threads,

but there are too many to keep up with. REally disappointing. I think I'll come back in a couple of days and maybe they'll have it all out of their systems by then.

[MadHound]

147. We are, after all, talking about Falwell here

Arguably one of the people who is most responsible for the state of our country today. His hatred for his fellow human being is legendary, especially if that fellow human happened to be gay, liberal, female, minority, or even just the tiniest bit liberal. He has taken advantage of people to the tune of millions of dollars. He has preached hatred and discord from a pulpit that he dared to call Christian. He has interjected his brand of hatred into the politics of this country at the very highest levels. His creed of hate has inspired his followers to many millions of acts of violence, up to and including murder. He has done his best to denounce even the most sound of science. His influence on our society as a whole has lowered the level of discourse in our country, and has promoted nothing but ignorance and hatred among our population. All of this evil and more this man has done.

You don't meekly respect the death of great evil, you go out and celebrate it. Ding Dong! the Wicked Witch is dead! I will not be respectful of the death of this evil, I will celebrate it, much as I celebrated the deaths of those other great evils, Nixon and Reagan. The world is a better place today, for evil has passed away!

To hell with respecting the evil when it is dead, he never respected us when he was alive. And to hell what anybody else thinks, including the Freepers. First of all, their hands are not clean when it comes to matters like this, and secondly, why the hell should we allow those sorts of little evil to dictate what we say and think?

A great Evil has passed away today! Let us all rejoice!

[Goblinmonger]

151. He was a hate-filled evil bastard.

I have no concern for his death. I am not happy he is dead; I did not wish for him to die. But I WILL NOT show any respect or remorse for his passing. He was fuck all when he was alive and I think no differently now that he is dead.

[GeorgeGist]

157. It seems to me Jerry chose to ...

let his soul go free. :toast:

[Bluebear]

159. Sorry, he blamed me for 9/11.

I'm sorry for those that cared for him but all I can muster today is a big, fat (and I do mean big and fat) good riddance.

[seabeyond]

160. people will give you all kinds of justifiable reasons to mollify their guilt, BUT

the pathetic behavior no longer says a single thing about falwell, says EVERYTHING about a person that would bad mouth the man, dance on his grave or feel glee at his death. it is nothing about falwell, it is everything about the person who does it.

but then du doesn't often do well in these circumstance. it allows us to see how the other side does exactly some of their creepy behavior. not in the party, it is in being human. some will meet this passing in grace, and some will walk it in shame

[Kelly Rupert]

184. seabeyond, 1945:

the pathetic behavior no longer says a single thing about hitler, says EVERYTHING about a person that would bad mouth the man, dance on his grave or feel glee at his death. it is nothing about hitler, it is everything about the person who does it.

but then america doesn't often do well in these circumstance. it allows us to see how the other side does exactly some of their creepy behavior. not in the country, it is in being human. some will meet this passing in grace, and some will walk it in shame

[seabeyond]

270. kelly rupert... to suggest you know all that falwell is, is a falsehood

just as falwell feeling he knows all the gay is thru his narrow minded scripture. i can critize falwells words, what he did to the nation, how he fed the hate, how in his own ignorance he did the exact opposite of what the very religion he professed to be a part of. but i wont become the pathetic and behave in a totaly uncivilized and disrespectful manner in the mans death. then it is no longer about the man.

i hear thread after thread about our children, how out of control, how disrespectful. where do they learn. they learn from the adults. many people on here that are allowing their very hate to be vocalized are the same that teach it to the children.

we make excuses when it is someone we dont like. we are offended when the other side does it with someone they dont like. that alone should be a BIG clue.

one doesnt have to be the ugliest they are in anothers passing, to NOT honor what the dead represented in his life

in this post it is clear i did not respect this man. also in this post it is clear that i do not feel i need to lower myself to what this man allowed hisself to become.

just like with all the horrors hitler commented, i would not then feel the desire to do the same and be the same to him. because then, i am no different than him, just on a much smaller scale.

[CreekDog]

355. Excellent points

I remember going to school in SF when Reagan was shot and another kid at school told me the news, hysterically happy that it happened. I was the kid of liberals, but someone getting shot wasn't something to celebrate. So I got pushed down onto the pavement. Won't forget that.

A lot of the posts at DU today are a lot like that moment --but this time it's coming from adults who should know better.

[earthlover]

420. i get the distinct feeling that many posters are younger than we think

...at least today I get that feeling.

[Kelly Rupert]

511. Your logic fails, for one reason.

Hatred of a man for what he was born is not the same as disgust with a man for what he has deliberately made himself to be. The belief that a man must tolerate intolerance is intellectual sophistry that most have outgrown by high school.

(I'm not sure what most of your points were intended to be, unfortunately. If English is not your first language, I am sincerely sorry that I was unable to understand you. No sarcasm.)

[seabeyond]

550. disgust with a mans behavior and hatred of a person are too different things.

and please explain to me why tolerate intolerance is intellectual sophistry. because to me it is ultimate honesty. if we insist that other must be tolerant of us, doesnt that demand in honest being tolerant of the intolerant. the ultimate challenge. not only was it not something i grew out of, it was something i learned later in life that has been invaluable.

your intolerance of the intolerant may exist. but.... though i challenge, i am tolerant of your intolerance. though i see the negative it creates in our already negative world, and i may put out the harm it does, regardless.... it is yours to do. this i know. i put out and you can accept or not.

i tolerate your intolerance for intolerance.

further it is no longer even tolerate. to me that is a beginning lesson. in embracing people it is not only a tolerance of people but a knowledge that it is yours to do, exclusively. you alone will suffer the repercussions and receive the rewards. you create what you live. no one else has a part

tough time understanding what i am saying. probably.

[RetroLounge]

161. Tough shit...

he deserved no respect in life, he deserves none in death...

Fuck him. May he burn in hell...

RL

[mudesi]

164. Saddam Hussein had a family too.

Honestly, what is it about Jerry Falwell that makes you post this?

[Taverner]

167. One less American Martin Boorman is reason alone for celebration

He was a theocrat who's goals were the polar opposite of ours. He lied, cheated, stole and killed his way up the Organized Religious Mafia ladder.

Lemme put it this way, they danced on Wellstone's, Kennedy's and MLK's graves. I see a bright disco floor for me to dance on his.

[Rabrrrrrr]

168. Oh, CHrist. This same "can't speak ill of the dead" BULLSHIT comes up every fuckin' time.

Fuck it - he was an evil, gas-filled, heretical, gigantic cumstain on humanity.

Maybe now his evil bullshit will end.

GOODBYE you evil piece of shit. Now you can do no more harm here on Earth, and hopefully have made peace with your maker, who hopefully gave you a stern dressing down for being such a shitbag.

It doesn't matter if a person is recently dead or long dead - THEY ARE FAIR GAME FOR CRITICISM.

Anything else is ridiculously ignorant sentimentalist bullshit.

[The Stranger]

174. Well . . .

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Duncan Grant]

177. Falwell blamed 9/11 on GAYS.

Yeah, he's worthy of "brotherhood and acceptance". :sarcasm:

Sanctimony is still alive and well, isn't it. :grr:

[krkaufman]

178. "partying like it's 1999"?

Ha! I was just commenting to my sister, the other day, that that song is now outdated. (though, perhaps, "like it's 1999" is still useful if interpreted as "partying like it's the end of the millenium, and possibly the end of the world" :))

As for the varied reactions to Falwell's demise, the bell curve is remarkable because it's applicable to oh so many things.

[long_green]

180. Jerry Falwell earned every nasty thing that is said about him here

A terrible, awful man.

[CreekDog]

271. It's wrong to say nasty things, but you can do it in response?

Come again?

Got ethics???

[eallen]

181. I'll dance at Castro's funeral, also. Sun Myung Moon's, too.

There are some who are so villainous that it is appropriate to celebrate when they shuffle off this mortal coil. Falwell was one of the great enemies of American freedom. He may not have blood on his hands, as does Castro. But the world is a grimmer place because of his life's work.

:hippie:

[Renew Deal]

183. Falwell would have danced on your grave.

Just for posting at DU. Imagine if you were gay.

[monobrau]

186. There are bad people in the world

And their demise is a thing to celebrate.
Falwell may have been born into the family of man, but he chose to break from it and sow discord and hatred.

[Bushies gotta go]

188. I'd rather be known as a "bad Dem" than a hypocrite.

As much damage as this man has done to our country, why would or should I feel compelled to mourn? That is like asking the Jews to mourn Nazis as they exited the concentration camps.

Fact of the matter is, the followers of this man have waged war on America, as much as any Jihadist has. You really expect me to forget that and fall over blubbering? No, this is war. For me, it's a great day when one of their leaders goes buhbye.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

200. good point. i think people mistake liberalism for having no values at all.

do we 'tolerate' pedophiles? do we need to tolerate the nazi party?

[Bushies gotta go]

207. It's what is wrong with "Libs"

Like Huffington said last week on Maher... must we always shrink back or shrink away from a stand just because somebody says it is not proper to act or feel a certain way? As soon as somebody says we should act a certain way, we bow our heads and try to be good little Dems... BS.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

218. take a stance: an evil person is dead and we still have to be polite about it

:hi:

[Atman]

221. You left out granny-muggers and kitten-stompers

Come on. Arianna was talking about a whole different thing. About political fights, not about dancing on the graves of dead people. This isn't a PC issue. I'm the first to agree that Falwell's religio-political activism did great harm to this country. But why does that mean I have to CELEBRATE the death of a man who had family and friends who are deeply saddened by his passing? I may not be affected similarly, but I'm not CELEBRATING and calling him a "pig fucker" and the even-worse things being said about him.

Imagine yourself in this situation...this is your dad or grandpa...his family has suffered a great loss. Jerry himself has suffered nothing. He's dead. He'll decompose and his flesh with rot away. Nature does that. But his family is deeply affected, whether or not any of us feels "better off" for his passing. It's that atheism thing again. Unless you already share some fundamental beliefs with Falwell, you shouldn't let his words about "damning people to hell" bother you, because they won't/don't apply to you.

.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

230. you cant understand why gay people would want to celebrate the death of a homophobe?

are we picketing his funeral that his family should know?

[Atman]

247. No.

I can understand why we should be relieved, why we should feel somewhat unburdened that this cancer has been naturally excised. But I DON'T CELEBRATE the death of the man, because he is now more clueless than he ever was...he's dead. He's gone. He's decomposing as we speak. But his family is still alive and has suffered a great loss. Go to his funeral and get in their faces if it will make you feel better. But to what end? To make them love their grandpa/daddy/husband/uncle less? Why? What do you gain as a human being from such hatred?

.

[Bushies gotta go]

488. I understand your point... but

I understand that a human life is a human life and somewhere there is somebody who mourns for him. But count me out. He was a cancer on our country, regardless. Best removed.

I'm done being touchy-feely. I'm too old for that. I'm tired of this "moral majority" attitude that unless you think like they do or like they tell you to think, you are second class. Guess what? I'm alive and he ain't.

I won't go to dance on his grave. I won't send a snide "bereavement card". I won't even jump for joy. But I sure as hell ain't going to sit here and feel a sense of sorrow in his death when I couldn't stand the man in his life.

[meatloaf]

560. But they do apply to us.

He's encouraged generations to hate and, in both direct aned indirect ways, to act on that hate. He has made our country less free and less tolerant and more dangerous for those who don't share his view of the world. What he's spent his life doing is much like shouting fire in a crowded theater, and encouraging the patrons to disregard those not of their ilk as they make "their way" to the exits.

It may not be through direct action but he surely has the blood of thousands if not millions on his hands. Were Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, any different? Would you argue for respecting their deaths?



*edited for spelling.

[Atman]

203. Who said you should MOURN?

I certainly didn't. I certainly won't. But nor will I celebrate the death of the man. Some in this thread have equated him to Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro...bullshit. He was a man with a twisted belief in the supernatural, but he did not gas millions of Jews. His biggest offenses were his ridiculous statements -- WORDS -- against people who didn't believe as he did. Maybe you should check out atheism. That's why I won't buy into his bullshit, or the bullshit many on this thread are posting. Falwell, or Robertson or Dobson, et al, cannot damn me to hell or any other magical place they've created in their minds, because they are not part of my belief system any more than Falwell would have been the slightest bit concerned if you or I had condemned him to a life under the anti-Spaghetti Monster. So why are all the panties in a wad? I keep seeing the same religious rhetoric surfacing in this thread -- "OMG! He comdemned gays to hell!" So the fuck what? That's only a problem if you're already at least partially on the same page as Falwell in the first place.

Not me. I'm reading from a completely different book.

.

[earthlover]

425. if you don't want to be a hypocrite, then....

...since you are happy at Falwell's death, don't get mad if someone from the other side who thinks someone on the left is evil is happy at their death. Better not criticize, because THEN you WOULD be a hypocrite, wouldn't you? Btw....you didn't get mad when someone on the left was happy at someone on the left's death, did you?

The ultimate hypocricy is hating Falwell for his hatred. So how is that NOT hypocritical?

[Bushies gotta go]

486. Hypocrisy and criticism are TWO different things.

I can be critical of a lot of things. I can be critical of and hate Bush. But I would be a hypocrite if I secretly voted for him. Or secretly donated to his campaign while standing up and telling everybody what an idiot he is.

I can hate. I can hate people who hate others. But I hate for reason, because of their actions. I don't hate them simply for being a different color, for being a different sexual orientation, for their judgments on a different religion. Doing all of that while at the same time holding yourself out as a "good Christian", a "person of love" is hypocritical. I don't hold myself out as anything other than a hater. So there.

[Amonester]

190. In my own personal belief system (one I would never even try to...

push through other people's throat), I am happy he is free from this life, floating somewhere in space and stuck in the dark forever as his appalling actions and comments have hurt hundreds of thousands, if not more to come...

So, a bit like a celebrating jazz band in New Orleans, I am celebrating his newly found freedom from all gravity forces (what a "feeling" it must be...), so does that make me a bad person (even if I am convinced that a**hole will be feeling very lonely in the dark forever)?

I don't think so.

In my own personal belief system, my actions and comments will allow me to "see" my family and friends in the "light" after I pass out, and I won't be spinning in the dark forever. Not him, sorry.

That's it.

[DubyaSux]

193. They call this tolerance?

I find it hard to stomach the lack of tolerance from people who demand it from others. How do we ask for tolerance from others when we're not willing to give it?

I didn't like Falwell any more than the next guy, but I respected his right to be an idiot. I take no joy in anybody's death and especially take no joy in people's lowering of principles to trample on his grave.

I guess whatever makes you feel better...just my $.02.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

198. you respect his right to spread hate, yet you cant respect my right to point out that the world is

better of without him?

thats strange.

from those of you who are oh so outraged one would think that some liberal had stabbed him.

[earthlover]

427. no...it's like this....

I attacked Falwell's hatred. So I find it impossible NOT to attack similar hatred from others, otherwise I look like a fool. Hatred is hatred.

It would be such an easier, black and white, world if we could hate others for their hatred and not learn to practice what we preach ourselves, ie, to not live in hate.

[EFerrari]

204. When you tolerate people like Falwell, you're not tolerant.

You are complicit.

[Duncan Grant]

216. Yours is among the best responses on this thread!

:loveya:

Brotherhood, hah! (see OP)

[EFerrari]

224. Hi there,neighbor.

:hi:

[Duncan Grant]

251. Back at ya!

:hi:

The word of the day is: Sanctimony. :D

[EFerrari]

265. You're too young to hear, "And the Password is . . ."

lol

The Earth has just been rid of a bunch of hatred. I don't see the down side. :)

[earthlover]

428. the downside is that DU-ers have hurt their own cause by acting like Falwell

[CreekDog]

462. They haven't hurt the cause of anarchy

Have to remember that a lot of DU'ers are not necessarily in support of the same things or even same party.

The noise and celebration over Falwell's death may be precisely the kind of world they want to live in.

But there are many people in this thread fighting back.

[EFerrari]

594. I'm an anarchist because I'm relieved this horrible hate monger is gone?

Okay.

[EFerrari]

561. No.

[CreekDog]

339. 94114, um, I'm in 94105

and tolerance = complicity is meaningless.

But it does have one advantage that it is so utterly meaningless that it is hard to disprove.

[EFerrari]

599. That's not an argument. Just knocking truth doesn't actually disprove it.

lol

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

280. Okay.

[Duncan Grant]

282. What is it about complicity you don't understand?

And how you made the leap to the Sopranos is really confusing. :crazy:

[CreekDog]

333. The accusation of "tolerating" Falwell

I don't know how you don't "tolerate" a person. What does that mean?

Most of my life I didn't agree with Falwell and if asked I would say that. Is that enough? Was SFexpat suggesting that those of us who said Falwell, RIP, were tolerating him?

Whatever SFexpat meant was practically incomprehensible and furthermore, if he is saying that any of us tolerated Falwell, he hasn't proven that assertion...which is sort of unprovable since it's hard to define what constitutes the moral act of *not* tolerating a person.

[earthlover]

432. so if you don't rejoice in death you are complicite?

...I have heard that logic before....sorta like you are for us or against us....wasn't that Bush logic? I am sure Falwell had similar black and white logic. I am sure he thought a lot of tolerant souls were complicite too....

Gee the similarities....

[GoneOffShore]

461. Excellent comment.

I've read a lot of this thread and some of the others.

"We have to be better than the Freepers", "We're exhibiting the same sorts of hatred", "This is ugly", etc. It's nasty but it's the way we feel and felt about an evil piece of crap who wouldn't have given us air if we were in a bottle.

And as you so rightly put it, tolerance of intolerance equals complicity.

[EFerrari]

596. We have to get very clear about this.

It's not "fairness" to let the haters to spew all over us and to incite hate crimes or to deprive people of human rights.

That's not being "fair", that's collaboration.

[SusanaMontana41]

510. That about sums it up.

You speak for me.

[EFerrari]

593. Hi there, Susana. I haven't read you before. It's good to see you.

:)

[bullwinkle428]

220. "Right to be an idiot" is one thing - people like Opie & Anthony

come to mind, just to be topical (NOT that they have a right to have a radio show, but their right to spew stupid crap, and an employer's choice to allow them to do that on the air), but Falwell is a horse of different color!

We're talking about a guy that advocated the destruction of wholesale groups of people because they didn't fit his distorted world view, based on his mis-interpretation of the Bible...he was a preacher of hate.

[neuvocat]

196. Ye reap what ye sow

so shall ye reap.

[yurbud]

197. like when the right was mocking Paul Wellstone's funeral?

[Atman]

208. You're right. I strive to be as reprehensible as the right wing.

:eyes:

.

[yurbud]

411. I'm not dancing on the guys grave, just putting his life in perspective.

[pdrichards114]

206. I think most of us have conflicted feelings about this issue

We all recognize the vile and lasting influence of this man's "work." However, I'd say most of our upbringings taught us, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

As liberals we are constantly faced with these types of dilemmas. Our approach to looking at the world, using thought and rationality, inevitably forces us to face them. It may not always be pretty, classy and in good taste, but ultimately that is beside the point. That we are having a discussion is the point. If we could only be so lucky as the fundies in this one element and never have to question or discuss or second guess our thoughts and feelings because our faith/dogma tells us otherwise. Just my thoughts on this complicated situation.

One last thing, how we respond to this kind of situation isn't about him. It can only bring out the best or worst in us, the living.

[treestar]

209. Relax, we didn't know this guy personally

Really what are you trying to prove with this thread? That you are such a great person that you get emotionally involved over public figures whom you don't know personally?

We are not dealing with his death as one we knew, but only on the same terms we knew him as alive, as a public figure.

These threads in these times never do a thing to stop it the next time either. So you're fighting human nature.

[northzax]

210. I personally am sad to hear about it

while I don't share Mr. Falwell's belief system, if he is, in fact, correct, then he is currently spending a lot of face to face time with a pitchfork, which really can't be all that pleasant.

[mnhtnbb]

211. My only comment on another thread was "may he receive the judgment he's due"

[DrunkenMaster]

214. save your self-righteous handwringing

So let me get this straight:

It is improper for people who have been abused, mailigned, lied to, subjected to racism, homphobia, ignorance and hysteria to celebrate the death of their abuser?

Bullsh*t. I'm not a hypocritical Xtian zombie, I don't turn the other cheek. Falwell was a scumbag and a fascist and I'm glad he's dead.

Don't you dare tell anyone else the "proper" way to react to the death of such man -- you don't have the right. If you don't like people celebrating the death of this perverted f**k, don't read the threads.

[BlooInBloo]

215. My only regret is that I never got the chance to spit in his face.

[NaturalHigh]

219. I'm with you.

The next time I read a post about freepers celebrating some macabre item, I'm going to remind some people of the sick threads I've seen on DU today. Disgusting is the word that best describes most of them.

[Unvanguard]

225. Where that person was the enemy of the democratic ideals of brotherhood and acceptance. n/t

[bobbie]

227. "Just had to say it."

Just have to ignore it.

He was pure evil.
Good riddance.
Don't rain on our parade.

[Atman]

234. Your PARADE?

Yikes.

Thanks for underscoring every point I've attempted to make in this thread.

BTW, do you think his family is in the parade's VIP viewing stand? I hope they brought umbrellas.

.

[bobbie]

245. Pssst, I'm glad Hitler's dead too

GASP!!!!

Evil people make evil corpses.
Which means they improve when they die.
Let me guess, you're SHOCKED!!!

Grow up.

[bobbie]

252. Hey Atman!

Since you're policing us, I said a naughty thing at this thread too:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=889641&mesg_id=890399

Spank me...

[Atman]

258. I'm not going to click the link, because I'm not "policing" anybody.

Re-read my OP. If you think I'm "policing" anybody, you're really not worth the time it takes to click.

Re-read my OP.

.

[meatloaf]

564. Do yu really think the Falwell family is going to be looking to DU to see how he is remmebered?

Got a high opinion of ourselves don't we?

[xultar]

228. Agree 100%

[JNelson6563]

233. And they say wingers own self-righteousness

Oy.

Yeah people! He was the embodiment of all that is evil with the religious right-wing but let's all play nice.

:puke:

Julie

[Atman]

237. No one said "play nice." I'm taking the Thumper Defense.

If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all.

History will write the man's legacy. In the meantime, we're feeding every single negative stereotype people have about the "loony left." And we're being major-league hypocritical in the process.

.

[Puglover]

295. Oh BULLSHIT

The ONLY thing you are playing at is the "holier then thou karma game". I'm very glad you're not listening to Randi right now. You'd probably need smelling salts and a fan.

"Hypocritical"? I'm fucking happy the evil bag of shit is dead. And I'm not afraid to say so. When someone starts calling YOU the reason for 9/11 and every evil in the world and giving crazies free license to kill you in Jesus's name you fucking get back to me. Until then cram your candy assed crap.

[sniffa]

306. i think i've said this once or twice before but...

i.fucking.Love.you. :loveya:

[Atman]

308. Well, you're obviously full of hatred and rage on many levels. Just like Jerry.

And, btw...Jerry DID call me the reason for 9/11, and gave every evil in the world and...well, your sentence veered off into incomprehensibility here, but I think I know what you were getting at. But despite the veins bulging on your forehead, I'm right at your side. The difference is, I know the hatred didn't start with Jerry Falwell, nor will it die with him. He was just another bit player, and by expressing the same hatred and rage as he did simply makes one...well...the same as he was; filled with hatred and rage.

I choose not to be so. I never said you couldn't be. I simply stated "this is not DU's finest hour." I don't think I'm wrong on that point. Do you?


.

[Puglover]

310. Normally Atman.

I love your posts. Truly. But we disagree here. And I guess we'll have to live with that. And a big raspberry to you. I thought my sentence made perfect sense.

I am no Jerry Falwell. I'm sorry you think I am. However rage and grim satisfaction are honest and sometimes healthy emotions. Do I live with them everyday? Of course not otherwise I'd be as dead as Falwell.

[JuniperLea]

335. Well said!

I'm always happy when good prevails over evil! And that fucktard was pure EVIL!!!

[Kingshakabobo]

426. A funny thing...The OP was agreeing with Tucker Carlson and his opposition to the Hate Crimes Bill..

Just yesterday.......just sayin.

[Cobalt Violet]

529. And this thread got over 90 recommends.

People are so mindless. :puke:

[CreekDog]

235. Add my name to the list RIP Mr. Falwell

I don't need to agree with Mr. Falwell to wish him Godspeed in the hereafter.

I think some of the gleeful comments about his passing are wrong.

Also, the comments that specifically say that Falwell is in hell totally discount that he did preach the forgiveness of sins based on Jesus' own death on the cross and that he believed that this would save him --he never preached that he could go to heaven based on his own life. And he preached that you couldn't either.

If you are going to quote Falwell, then why don't you represent his theology accurately if you are going to ask me to believe other quotes or things about him?

Falwell did not believe, nor did he say that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. He preached that everyone deserves hell, unless they are forgiven by God. He may have said a lot of wrong things in his life, but on this, he got it right.

[EFerrari]

250. You must be joking.

The historical man we know as Christ spent his whole adult life advocating for "the least" -- for the powerless.

For the people that Falwell did his utmost to demonize.

Please.

[CreekDog]

284. Christ was for the forgiveness of sins

Jesus wasn't only the beatitudes. C'mon. And Jesus preached forgivess, baptism, etc. Falwell got these right.

Remember the death on the cross, the words at the last supper, the quotes in John...my flesh is real bread, etc.?

You are simply wrong on this.

Say all you want about Falwell, obviously you are not open to reason. But at least get stuff right. Falwell time and time again said he was a sinner and that Jesus saves sinners.

But you are ignoring all that.

[EFerrari]

286. I want to introduce you to a new concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

[CreekDog]

287. No thanks to the solipsism

Especially if you use it justify your callousness.

Falwell got a lot wrong about Christianity, but when he preached forgiveness of sins, he got that right and told of a merciful God that is better and more loving than any of us.

And solipsism is actually a very old concept, it's not new to us or to me.

[EFerrari]

293. You can't preach forgiveness and violent retributive death

at the same time. And that's what he did. That was his hallmark. That was the sum of his contribution to our culture. No, he got it exactly wrong.

[Bluerthanblue]

489. you are right- and that

historical man also encouraged people not to repay 'evil for evil' or to seek revenge.
He not only said it- he lived it. He didn't use or allow violence to be used to defend him when the 'government' took him, and eventually crucified him.

"Do good to those who hurt you"- "you have heard it said an eye for an eye- but I say..." "love your enemies" "if someone steals your shirt give him your coat as well" "give without expecting anything in return".... etc. Crazy talk by most peoples measure...

The opposite of hatred and intolerance isn't reverse hatred and intolerance- it is love. It's ok if this sounds stupid and crazy- People feel what they feel. I'm not advocating a "fairwell Dear Falwell" campaign- or defending any of his idealogy- just wanting to walk another path-

I admire you greatly Sfexpat2000-
even if we don't always agree-
peace-
blu

[EFerrari]

592. Well, you are a better person than I am, dear Blu, because I can't do that.

:hug:

[Bluerthanblue]

609. oh no-

not better than you Sfexpat- not better at all. And you don't have to do what I do- you need to do what you know is 'right' for you- what allows you to look in the mirror and say- "I'm doing what I believe is 'right'.

you are a special person- with a kind heart.

I wish you peace-
blu

:hug: back at you- and thanks, I needed one today.

[jgraz]

311. Thanks for the reminder as to why I'm an atheist

It's this kind of religious claptrap that enables monsters like Falwell. "He can't be all bad if he believes in Jeezus, can he?"

Um, yeah. He can be all bad. He used superstition and fearmongering to goad people to violence -- all the while raking in millions of dollars for himself. And apparently, the fact that he pretended to share your own medieval belief system gets him a pass from you as well. Sad.

[Divine Discontent]

236. Falwell was NOT a good person

but I do NOT gloat over his death, I am just RELIEVED he won't be pushing his HATRED anymore.

He was chatting to students yesterday about plans for the future, and over breakfast this morning - I'm glad he won't be a part of them. He said such HORRIBLE things against gays (we're responsible for 9/11, Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan, and AIDS is God's punishment for America caring about Gay people at all), and I am sad for his family at their loss of someone they probably loved, at least most of them. But I'm glad he is now done with his time on this earth.

AND THE BIGGIE - I had a vision of a TELEVANGELIST dying very soon (very was in the vision), and I am working that video still (I'm the guy who put up the Bush Bald head fetish video, and Clark's condensed speeches in Iowa), and when I saw the news my breath was held for a few seconds - just shocked that I had that vision of one of them dying (and I'm pretty sure I was typing the words upon the image of McCain and Falwell at the University in robes when the vision came!)

I have had two other visions that were big, animal death that I had last year that was going to cause us global problems, and in 04 I had a vision of massive disaster in Aug in FL and that I had to go there for my brother, my brother got chronically ill the following month - oh that month spawned 4 hurricanes upon FL in case you wonder the significance. (yes, I told my brother about the vision when I moved back in Feb 04)


God bless you all, and may this passing of Mr. Falwell spell the end of the power the 'moral majority' holds.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff

[FiveGoodMen]

239. To each his own.

I'd just like to say that I wish there was a hell so Falwell could burn in it.

[CreekDog]

285. And you are pure enough to avoid that hell you wish on Falwell?

Don't be so sure.

And maybe reconsider your *wish*.

[ClusterFreak]

241. When people do that kind of stuff here it infuriates me.

Good for you for speaking out.

K&R:thumbsup:

[PegDAC]

243. I'm not celebrating,

but I'm certainly not sorry he won't be able to spew his malicious crap any more.

[greenbriar]

244. bla

bla bla bla


we have been nice for too fucking long

[Atman]

249. Yeah, we sure showed him, eh?!

Gotcha, Jerry! You dead, fat man! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

:eyes:

.

[nini]

246. Agreed.. our finest hour was the 'goodbye daddy' thread for Saddam

:evilgrin:

[TZ]

248. Falwell loved attention, good and bad...

He felt it drew light to his agenda! I personally think he said deliberately incendiary things because he felt no publicity is bad publicity so I think if you all want to "get back" at him the best way is just ignore him- neither mourn or go on hate filled rants. Trust me nothing would irritate him more. We are spending waaaay to much time an energy on this.

[Wapsie B]

253. Lucifer has a place waiting for him.

In the 9th circle I believe.

[callous taoboy]

254. Turns my stomach too, Atman. Wishing

someone ill or celebrating their death is just bad, bad karma and we should be better than that. Pick any one of the Democratic candidates and picture them getting on Tee Vee and saying of Falwell's death: "We are much better off now." Wouldn't that just suck beyond all belief? Now you know how I feel seeing fellow DUers spewing such hate.

[callous taoboy]

256. Hate-mongers = Trolls. I suspect so. I hope so.

[EFerrari]

269. What crap. All this man ever did was spew hate

and DU is supposed to not express relief that he's gone?

I don't think so.

Comparing this horrendous hatemonger with any Democrat is ridiculous.

I'm glad we're rid of him. He contributed nothing and brought out the worst in anyone he influenced.

[Puglover]

298. Strawman arguments your forte? n/t

[callous taoboy]

312. Well excuuuuse me for suggesting that hate ain't the answer!

Sheesh. I did not like Falwell, don't get me wrong. But I do have the right to say that some of the vitriol here is what you damn well know you'd see in Freeperville if Clinton, or whomever else you may greatly admire died, and then we'd be seeing the obligatory "What hate-filled drek over at FR re:Clinton" post. Where the hell does it end?

Strawman- Sure, every time you hear an opinion using any analogy that gets under your skin is conveniently labeled strawman.

[Puglover]

321. Apparently hyperbole is another of your talents.

"Straw man- Sure, every time you hear an opinion using any analogy that gets under your skin is conveniently labeled straw man."

Since I've never see you on this board before I'd be curious exactly how you arrived at this. "Every time"? :crazy:

You trying to compare Jerry Fucking Falwells death with freepers gloating over John Edwards dying or Dennis Kucinich. Yeah, that's a flawless argument. :eyes:

[callous taoboy]

414. provides link to 10,000th post in 2001, whimpers that you misunderstood the

intention of blah blah blah...

OOOPS! Sorry, thought I was twanging away over to uppity person's pseudo-science
post.

Seriously- If it will make you feel any better I did uncork a fantastic bottle of wine tonight for some reason. Do you not dig any of what I have to say about this matter? Do you not think that, perhaps, the Dalai Lama is correct in loving the Chinese for making the Tibetan people stronger? Or is this just another strawman tack? Is the Dalai Lama a big pussy for not being filled with unlimited hatred at the Chinese?

Believe it or not, I'll bet we don't differ much in our outlook on life. Give me some room to say "hate" I don't do. Or don't. Maybe .00000000021% of the population that regularly posts to this board cares a rats ass what you or I have to say about anything at all. Our opinions here at DU are but farts in the skillet. I find it helpful to keep this in mind.

[Catamount]

259. Still warm?????

He was never warm to start with and good riddance to his perverted point of view of the world.
I am very glad he's gone, although I must say his death is a little sudden.
I guess I'll put on my tinfoil hat.

[kimmerspixelated]

261. Agreed.

I just posted a similar thing.

[leftwingnut]

264. Screw Falwell!!! eom

[Divine Discontent]

267. eeew...

that's necrophilia... not cool.

[dbonds]

268. People don't know the MAN.

What everyone is happy about is the evil the name stood for. Everyone is happy that personification of evil in the media character is gone. On a human level things are different, but we don't know the human, just the damage he did.

[jgraz]

275. point?

[dbonds]

283. Point is there in the post.

[jgraz]

289. So none then. OK.

[EFerrari]

276. "By their deed sye shall know them."

[CreekDog]

278. Vegeance is always wrong

Because none of us mortals are good enough to take revenge.

And revenge comes in many forms, mocking, repaying bad deeds with more bad deeds, etc.

Don't do it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

299. Whose taking revenge? Why would members of his family visit this forum?

Christ prayed "not for the World", but for those the Father had commended to his safe-keeping.

"True religion is this, to go the the help of the orphan and the widow, and to keep yourself untainted by the World."

Could there be a more telling testimonial to his chosen positioning in the latter, than the fact of Gingrich delivering a sermon or speech?

No, it's not normally a good idea to speak ill of the dead. Perhaps never a good idea; but I can think of too many worse sins (and innocent deaths ensuing from them), perpetrated by those Mr Falwell supported, to associate post-mortem criticisms of him with that level of wickedness.

[noamnety]

281. Thank you

It's not necessary to let go of one's own humanity while recognizing that someone else has let go of theirs.

[Hyper_Eye]

290. I said pretty much the same thing...

...in the Falwell thread. The posts in there are completely out of character for DU (I know I only have a couple posts but I have lurked here everyday for 3+ years.) This is the first time I have not felt absolute pride to be on the left. The comments in that thread make the members of DU look like freepers.

[Duncan Grant]

318. You and I would differ on who looks like freepers here at DU.

This is the first time I have not felt absolute pride to be on the left.

Keep practicing that indignity -- I'm almost ready to believe it. :eyes:

[CreekDog]

291. Welcome to DU, victims line up over there, everyone else apologize

[edbermac]

294. If Bill Clinton had died today....

Falwell would be on every news show spouting off how Bill is now roasting in Hell, how he raped women left and right, he and Hilary were tools of the homosexual mafia, he murdered dozens of people in Arkansas, was the main cause of 9/11 etc.

I won't dance on his grave, but I don't feel any sympathy for him or his family.

[slutticus]

300. I don't think it's so much a celebration of death.

It's more a celebration for the cessation of a far reaching spigot of hatred.

Whether he's burning in the very same hell he preached about...or whether he simply vanished into nothingness ...the fact still remains: As of 12:40 pm Eastern Standard Time, this world is a better place.

[Ikonoklast]

302. I despised the man yesterday for his hatred

I have not changed my opinion of him today.


I will not sit idly by and let those that would seek my life and liberty in the name of God do so without dispute from me.

[Joe Chi Minh]

347. Ikonoclast or not, you appear to share the view of C S Lewis that

an incapacity for outrage is a moral deficiency.

I believe he mentioned it in his autobiography, Surprised by Joy, in connection with the atrocities of the Nazis.

[Ikonoklast]

362. Nice call.

I believe that I have read everything that man ever wrote. My father is a huge C. S. Lewis fan, and I reap the benefits of that.

He was the type of Christian that most of these charlatans are only remotely acquainted with.

[Pacifist Patriot]

303. Thank you. I entered with trepidation when I heard the news and beat...

a hasty retreat. I came back on hoping to see just this. Peace Atman!

[19jet54]

304. Nobody feels sorry when the bad guys die?.

... Hitler, Idi Amin, Bin Laden, or the villain in the movies (except the family maybe)

It is normal to cheer when the good guys win & the bad guys die. The only question is "Was Falwell Good or Bad?" - I think that question is best answered by the people's response when he dies!

Put another way - Who cheered when Ghandi or Jesus died?

[dave123williams]

307. Bah; he barely qualified as a human being.

Sure; he had lungs, legs, hands...and a black shrivled heart.

I've not forgotten his remarks right after 9/11. You want to talk about wrong? He was spewing hate while the bodies were still burning.

Nobody's going to be more suprised than ol' Reverend Falwell when he wakes up tomorrow morning in a lake of fire, getting reamed repeatedly from behind by a demon.

[Herman74]

309. "ANY man's death diminishes me, ...

...for I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

-- John Donne (1624)

[ellisonz]

314. Death to THE America

:evilgrin:

[lakercub]

315. I have tried desperately today to reign in a smile

I don't want to hop up and down thrilled by someone's death (even Falwell's). There may be people at work with me who liked and respected him so out of respect to them, I am keeping my own feelings quiet right now.

At the same time, I get the negative reaction others are having and I'm fine with it. The man was indeed human garbage.

"but where exactly does it fit into the democratic ideals of brotherhood and acceptance to be dancing on still-warm body"

I would respond that the Democratic Party is still the party of acceptance and brotherhood. Hating all Christians, all Jews, all Muslims, or all Hindus would be a betrayal of our values as would hating all gays, military, right-to-lifers, etc. But what I see here isn't really hatred of a group. I try to avoid hating groups (even the soldiers in Nazi Germany were mostly just kids), but individuals are fair game. I hate Hitler, Himmler, Göring, and Goebbels, not the average Nazi grunt. I hate James Dobson, not all right-to-lifers. And I hate Jerry Falwell. I won't hate a population but I reserve the right to freely hate an individual.

He may not have been as evil as Hitler, Stalin, and Amin (although evil isn't just body count). He also wasn't as important. But he was evil enough and important enough to invite my unrelenting disgust and his passing is by no means a sad, solemn occasion.

Again, I will not jump for joy at the news. There are some who have been negatively affected and I respect that. But I will not mourn either, and I will not scold others for being happy about it. A reduction in evil has been accomplished...I can see how that is a cause for rejoicing.

[Jokinomx]

316. I completely disagree with you on this point.....respectfully of course

His hateful words and homophobic stances will live on for generations thru the people that actually believed him. GENERATIONS of good Christian families continuing to promote biased and flawed beliefs about homosexuals because HE pounded it in their brains from toddler on up. I personally would just ignore his death and be relieved that he can no longer brainwash more people.

Falwell had many, many enemies and caused so much pain in so many families many whom estranged a family member because of his or her sexual preference.

So... no I am not offended at those that want to cheer.

and finally my last input on this topic....

"Jerry, may those that do have the authority to judge you as you cross over to the non-physical realm, do so with compassion. Something that you didn't have."

[Joanne98]

317. I danced on Raygun's grave when he died. I'll dance on Falwell'd too.

May they all rot in Hell!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

322. damn right!

[greyghost]

340. This is me...

warming up :bounce: :evilgrin:

[leftofthedial]

323. dance on the fat turd

es macht nichts

er macht nichts

[Mojambo]

324. I can respect your take, but I don't share it.

And it's all well and good to say that this is not DU's finest hour, but Democratic Underground isn't a monolith. There are thousands of people here with widely divergent opinions.

I think it would have been more appropriate to say this hasn't been YOUR favorite hour...

[Tigress DEM]

326. Ah, it isn't our worst either.

I can not blame people here for venting against someone who has constantly used his pulpit to oppress religious freedom or any type of freedom.

Our joy at one less obstacle in our war to take our country back may seem inappropriate but if you think this is celebrating, wait until if/when God hits Cheney with a well placed lightening bolt.

AND we are NOT on his still warm body. WE are in cyberspace and he is safely away from our opinion at this time.

I suppose people whom he loved need time to grieve for the man they loved, but I doubt any of them are going to the DU today.

[Bluerthanblue]

330. You speak the uncomfortable truth-

and you've been flamed for it-

I'm with you- and those who have learned that hatred is a cancer which destroys-

Thank you for your wisdom.

peace,
blu

[karlrschneider]

334. I won't dance on his grave. I don't dance.

But I can do a mean piss.

Fuck Jerry Foulball, his family and everyone who ever sent the son of a bitch a penny.
Good riddance to bad shit.

[OregonBlue]

342. Oh please, go tell it on the mountain to someone who care. The guys was a puke

and he'll burn in hell for the hatred he spread.

[greyghost]

352. Exactly...

Fuck him, and the Dick (Cheney) he rode in on!:evilgrin:

[cmd]

346. There are times to be quiet

and this is one of them.

[Stuckinthebush]

391. No, no it is not

It is time to remind the world who this evil man was. What his evil deeds were, and why many people won't be solemnly sitting around thinking about his family.

No, he was evil. Never be quiet when evil dies. Shout it from the rooftop...THIS SPECK OF EVIL IS DEAD!

[cmd]

476. I'll not argue with you

Someday you will understand the damage you do.

[Stuckinthebush]

532. Oh, my

how lofty.

Perhaps some day you'll understand how hand-wringing navel gazing surrounding the death of evil men is damaging.

Go read the three pro happy Falwell death threads on the greatest page now and you will see how evil the man was and why it is not damaging to remind people of his crimes against humanity.

[JuniperLea]

349. You reap what you sow

When you spend your life sowing the seeds of hatred, don't expect anything less than dancing and pissing on your grave.

[CreekDog]

357. We should treat each other better than we all deserve

It would make for a world that is better than the one we have.

And I think it is fine and even appropriate to name and discuss things he said or did that were wrong, where it crosses the line is when the poster sits in judgement and wishes him to hell for eternity. No mortal gets to sit in that seat of judgement.

I'm annoyed at all this, but I don't even hope you fall on a banana peel.

You are not supposed to wish wrong onto other people as compensation for a wrong they did to you or others.

[JuniperLea]

365. How nice of you...

That means you shouldn't be sitting in judgement of anyone here... so you are actually breaking the rule you gave yourself.

Life is hard.

[brentspeak]

433. I don't find the other poster is making a judgement in the manner you're saying

[JuniperLea]

601. By telling people how they should behave

You judge. When you judge under the guise of telling people not to judge, well, you can imagine the confusion.

[L. Coyote]

441. BRAVO. And, we do not need to say this in my circle and community.

[Hekate]

351. Thanks, Atman. Let the dead bury their dead. nt

[valerief]

359. I would expect you to say that. nt

[Harper_is_Bush]

360. Was it OK to be happy about the death of Saddam? Yes?

Then Falwell deserves no less.

He was a dangerous, divisive man who's paranoia drove him to spread hatred and mistrust everywhere.

[liberal renegade]

364. he'd better hope he meets my god

the one who died on the cross, to forgive all sin, past,present and future, otherwise he'll burn in hell. Dying on the cross would have been pointless if there had been exceptions...

I am glad he's gone and I do hope he becomes a gay man or womans servant.

[ProudDad]

368. I agree

I've never, that is NEVER, liked falwell.

But I try to forgive when it's not too dangerous to do so.

Good post.

Sometimes, there are too many bloodthirsty folks on this board.

[brentspeak]

370. Agreed. Better to be dignified than to be vicious.

[Stuckinthebush]

371. Oh, please. Evil dies we should celebrate

The man was evil. His words, policies, and actions hurt others and probably led to the death of gay men such as Mr. Shepherd.

Damn right I celebrate the death of the jerk.

[L. Coyote]

374. This thread reads like a Ratf**ker Holiday. Is this a Chicago '68 redux?

Half the mob was undercover agents in lockstep with orders to embarass the anti-war movement. They were very successful.

Can we move on already. There are uncountable scandals to focus on......

[burythehatchet]

375. how can one human being express such shock and dismay

at the honest expression of fellow human beings? How can you claim to be the arbiter of what is right and moral?

[Atman]

458. I didn't claim to be the arbiter of anything.

I simply said, this is not DU's finest hour. Do you agree or disagree?

.

[Marie26]

377. Not its worst hour either, honestly.

DU has danced on the graves of far kinder & better people than Jerry Falwell. It is a bit creepy.

[Virginia Dare]

382. This was not the Land of Oz's finest moment...

[Stuckinthebush]

387. Yes, the poor witch had family

tsk tsk....

;)

[Virginia Dare]

547. Glenda wasn't so sad either, was she?...n/t

[Divine Discontent]

386. well,

was it wrong for the munchkins to cheer when the wicked witch was dead, to use something gleefully cheerful as an example??? think about it, a very vitriol hateful man has passed on, there is not a reason to be happy he's not doing this anymore and dancing like them? the BAD thing would have been to be hoping someone would've taken him OUT or that he died.. I never thought that even though he blamed me for 9/11 and AIDS.... which is a horrendously evil thing to say publicly.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff

[Miss Chybil]

388. Like he didn't try to capitalize on the deaths of the people in the WTC, or Katrina?

I'm not dancing on his grave and I'm usually a very compassionate person. I feel for his family and friends, but I don't feel very saddened by his death and that's just the truth. Maybe, if I "knew" him, I'd feel differently. I don't know. The side of his personality he chose to share with me and the rest of the world through his hate-filled comments, over the airwaves over the years, does not move me to mourn his passing.

[Prophet 451]

390. I'm not celebrating

I'm sorry he's dead. I'm sorry Reagan's dead too. Hell, I'm sorry anyone's dead.

But I'm glad he can't spew his hate anymore. And I'm not gonna miss him.

[smoogatz]

393. I personally plan to make an annual pilgrimage to Falwell's grave

so I can pinch off a two-day turd at the base of whatever hideous monument they erect in his honor. He was a theo-fascist and a hate-filled fraud. He made himself rich and powerful by exploiting the worst instincts of fearful and stupid people all over the world, and the world is a measurably worse place for his having lived in it. Frankly, I'm glad he's dead--my only regret in this matter is that he didn't croak twenty years ago. And another thing: what bugs ME about DU is the ever-simmering holier-than-thouism. Will there ever be a dead celebrity SO despicable, avaricious and bigoted that some DUer (or ten, or twenty) won't take it on themselves to decry the perfectly reasonable reactions of those who say, in all honesty, "good. I'm glad the son of a bitch is dead"?

[Divine Discontent]

516. this is one powerful post... it's angry for sure, but really...

it's right on... as a Christian, and as a GAY Christian, I've dealt with the sting of the hatemongers for 20 years, and there is a thing such as -------------

righteous anger! Now, you won't here me saying I want to piss on his grave, but I SURELY understand the animosity this man caused in his long life of preaching hate EVERYWHERE he went, and not enough about Jesus' love for all...

I made a video on youtube, and Falwell died right after I made his part (no shittin ya), about 8 hrs later, and the weird thing was when I was putting the televangelists in it last night, I thought "one of them is gonna die soon, they've been around forever", I don't remember who's pic I was working on, but I want to say Jerry's! Anyhow, here's the link for it, I made it because I'm sick of them bilking hundreds of millions a year from naive people, the only one I really like is Billy Graham, and Richard Roberts is ok, the rest I've watched and I get nauseous listening to them - especially JOEL OSTEEN! ICK!

anyhow, loved your post smoogatz...
the video called 'the right wing' will show up sometime tomorrow ---
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=password

[flyarm]

396. i know people he conned out of all their money..and everything they owned...

personally i don't wanr bad karma..but i hope he gets his just due..in the afterlife..

a hot just due!!

and i also saw falell try to manipulate young people..no thanks..he won't be missed by me..in factafter i type this he won't get another thought from me...and i won't wish anything for him..but just due...

fly

[Skittles]

399. I will save my symapthy for Falwell's victims

I find it hard to be passive about such a nasty piece of work

[hippywife]

403. I'm with you.

But it happens around here anytime someone dies so I've come to expect it.

There will never be peace where any kind of hatred flourishes.

[Rex]

404. Yawnage

nt

[B Calm]

405. Falwell creeped me out during the impeachment of President Clinton

not to mention the hatred he had towards liberals!

[callous taoboy]

442. So why not be bigger than that?

[B Calm]

446. I'm beyond that point with these creeps. You don't be nice to them

YOU HATE THEM!

[callous taoboy]

452. Weird, but while I respect your passion I can't think of anyone who

is universally loved by progressives espousing hate. If we start broadcasting hatred maybe we'll gain power? Would that be power you could stand behind? Wouldn't that be our undoing in the long run?

[B Calm]

523. Try staying in the middle of the road with these people and

the thing you will find will be yellow stripes and dead armadillos.

[MODemocrat]

409. I'm not exactly dancing on his grave, but I'll spend NO time grieving

For his followers, it's a tremendous loss; but to me, he was just another religious zealot.;(

[MistressOverdone]

410. I agree

We look like a bunch of idiots.

[personman]

413. Hope a roving band of gay necrophiliacs steal his body. n/t

[meatloaf]

568. Don't do that, I laughed so hard I shot soda out my nose, that buuurns!!!!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

415. Everyone dies

Good people die, serial killers die, the entire Bush Administration will die, we will die, charity-doers will die, evil people will die, the mega-rich will die... everyone will die.

It's what we do in life that matters. Jerry Falwell started out his life as a hoodlum, a common petty thief. Then he changed. He "found" God. What he did when he found God was to became as evil a man as he could.

It's not my fault he died. It's also not my fault he was an evil man pretending to be good.

I'm just glad he won't be doing any more evil.

[Zenlitened]

567. Beautifully said. :)

"...It's not my fault he died. It's also not my fault he was an evil man pretending to be good.

I'm just glad he won't be doing any more evil.

That's not "hate," with the irrationality implied by many who use the word. In fact, it seems the very definition of rationality, to me, to be glad that something harmful is no longer causing harm.

:hi:

[scarface2004]

418. yeah...too bad it wasn't karl rove!

then we could really party down!!!

[Jesterstear]

419. Tell me why we shouldn't be happy he's gone

Falwell is a man that made it his mission in life to take away our rights. It's that simple. Falwell wanted to change the laws of this nation to force us to follow the dictates of his religion, no matter what we believed.

That alone is justification enough to rejoice that he is no longer with us.

Furthermore, he was an evil man that co-opted the name of god and used it to bilk money out of millions of desperate and stupid people in order to fund a lavish lifestyle for himself. While that might not be justification enough to rejoice that he is dead, it certainly is enough to guarantee that most people will not shed a tear for his passing.

[applegrove]

422. I agree that we are being macabre...but the man was evil-mean. I mean

did he give council to Reagan when it came to that little AIDS problem..so Reagan ignored it for a long time. It is things like this we do not know about that gets me. How deep did his tentacles go and how many people were hurt by it.

But this is legacy stuff. And because the DU doesn't grieve for such a person..we jump right into his legacy and we have reason not to like him on that account.

[L. Coyote]

429. GET a life: MUST SEE NOW on PBS = "SPYING ON THE HOME FRONT"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x894292

[Joey Liberal]

434. Falwell is in hell with Reagan n/t

[CreekDog]

444. Reagan and Falwell are in hell? And you are headed where?

[Joey Liberal]

453. I'm going where all Democrats go - according to Falwell

Hell.

[Vidar]

436. Too bad we can't "disrecommend" a thread.

[Cobalt-60]

438. Perhaps its my classical education

I want to cuff his dead fat *ss to the back of my Buick and circle Liberty "University".
I did want him to be alive to enjoy it, but we can't have everything.

[matt bors]

440. Falwell's finest hour!

C'mon Atman. Falwell has made the world worse...it's a good thing that he is gone.



www.mattbors.com

[Gatchaman]

447. Yeah, let's all be respectful of Falwell...

...and when something terrible happens to Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or Barbara Streisand, we can all watch the people at LGF and Free Republic show how respectful they are for these people.

Falwell was a hate monger, and he's getting no better than he deserves.

[RoccoR5955]

448. I guess you wouldn't celebrate...

...Hitler's or Genghis Khan, or Vlad the Impaler, or any other evil bastard's death.
Feh!

As far as I am concerned, he stopped being a human being when he said that AIDS was a way of getting even with gays.
My brother died from complications of AIDS. He was not gay, he got a bad transfusion.

When someone like that wishes death on people because of their preferences, anyway, he ceases to be human.

One who preaches Christ's teachings, and makes MILLIONS on it, for personal gain, and does not follow said teachings, ceases to be human.

Someone who makes MILLIONS on such crass hypocrisy, ceases to be human.

No, this is so called 'man' lived a public life, and therefore, his actions are a public record. As a public record, it is not the death of a 'man,' because this being stopped being a 'man' when he started with his garbage.

It is the end of this hypocrisy that I celebrate.

[barbtries]

449. i just found out

from reading your post. can't say i'm grieving. if cheney died, i might jump for joy. just had to say it.

[ecstatic]

450. Some comments reek of freeperism. Not classy at all

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that Falwell was an evil hatemonger. And while I don't find any problems with a well placed joke or snark, all the rot in hell comments are a little tasteless. At least IMO. Plus, I don't want to attract bad karma.

[L. Coyote]

451. The TRUTH about DU is in the Statistics. WEIRD PLACE

This thread =

451 posts, 63 recs, 9265 views since midday.

Meanwhile

Gonzales Claims Deputy Attorney General And Chief Of Staff Are Not ‘Top Aides’ =

4 posts, 1 rec, 127 views



Think about it. Are we moving forward?

[illinoisprogressive]

454. thank you. I disliked the man but, no reason to be vile about it.

[RestoreGore]

457. As Jesus Christ hung on the cross dying, he said of his enemies...

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Jesus was not a man of revenge or a man who would take glee in the death of an "enemy." Christians, that is, those not influenced by those like Jerry Falwell do not hate and they do not take joy in the death of others. Mr. Falwell was a hatefilled man in life who has now met whatever fate had in store for him. It is not up to me to judge that fate nor to stoop to the level of those who may hate me for whatever reason as it solves nothing. It has to end somewhere, sometime. With that said I find many of the comments here today to be vulgar and macabre even though I too found this man's rhetoric to be repulsive, and I am neither mourning or rejoicing, but am disappointed in coming to the realization that there really is so much more hatred in this country than I ever thought and I cannot comprehend how we will ever get beyond it at this point. Very sad indeed.

[CreekDog]

459. If folks think that Falwell's death made for a less hatefilled world

They should read the above thread and reconsider.

There is still plenty of hate here in the land of the living.

[Atman]

465. Isn't it funny how so few people here "get it?"

Thanks. So many are spewing bile and hatred to demonstrate their disdain for bile and hatred.

Kinda like pro-death penalty people wanting to kill people to show others that killing people is wrong.

:crazy:

.

[MLFerrell]

478. "many are spewing bile and hatred to demonstrate their disdain for bile and hatred."

As the old saying goes, "Believing that war will bring peace is like fucking for virginity."

That being said, there is a qualitative difference between celebrating the death of a bigot and spewing bigotry yourself. I haven't heard anyone criticize Falwell and add "Yeah, and I hope that Christians get AIDS and die. Oh, and anyone who doesn't agree with my theological/political beliefs should get AIDS and die too." Falwell DID say things remarkably similar to such vitriol.

I shall dance a merry jig when each and every one of my enemies perishes, and Jerry Falwell was one of my enemies.

He is in large measure responsible for the utter madness that we have endured under Bush for the last six plus years, by whipping the faithful into a zealous frenzy, and promoting hate as an American value. You reap what you sow, yes?

The Republican Party co-opted his tactics, and his followers became their followers. His rhetoric was that of hate, pure unmitigated hate, and the rightist political machine learned its lessons from Falwell and others of his ilk. More than three thousand American soldiers, and literally countless Iraqis have died, and an innumerable body of others have suffered terribly as a DIRECT result of this man's words and actions.

I celebrate his death, rather than afford that ignoble bastard any measure of respect or veneration.

Not to go all Godwin on you, but would it have been wrong to celebrate Hitler's death?

Will it be wrong to rejoice at the death of monsters like Bush, or Cheney?

Just some things to think about is all...

[Raster]

482. "...how few people here "get it?"" Oh Christ on a crutch...

[19jet54]

518. OH I GET IT...

... Jesus forgave the Roman Soldiers killing him & the thief beside him on the cross - HE DID NOT FORGIVE THE PRIESTS WHO USED GOD TO SCREW OVER HIS CHILDREN - I believe he refereed to them as a "brood of vipers", whom he asked "who warned them of the coming judgment".

Which one of the 10 commandments or the Mosaic law have we not broken - My favorite is killing in war - Falwell's was bearing false witness for money? Baker's was lying for money? Take your pick, money, pride, sex, or whatever? None of use have nail scared hands or a scare in our side from a spear to judge anyone; but the bible also tells us to live a life that even the secular see as good.

Let me put it another way - Jesus hated the money-changers on the temple steps, he despised the church leaders who counted mustard seeds in public and he condemned the hypocrites for their evil ways while preaching the religion of self-wealth as church leaders.

The whole point is "WE ALL GET IT" and there is no mistake that those who pursue the Iraq war, a muslim holy war in the name of a christian god while not fighting themselves (cowards) and demanding the masses fight in their place, because they say so? Or it is God's will? All the while letting the poor drown in New Orleans, doing nothing - Supporting this evil president, who are as thick as thieves & who sneak around spying on non-GOP folks as terrorists?

I THINK WE ALL GET IT!!!

Watch the GOP candidates flock to his funeral for christian voter exposure - Sick bastards!

[Penndems]

463. No grave-dancing here, Atman, but no mourning, either

Jerry Falwell was someone with a family and friends who are grieving his passing. That I can understand, and my condolences go out to them.

However, he was also an individual who used his pulpit as a political weapon against those who, for one reason or another, he disagreed with. Injecting religion into the political arena, Falwell birthed a sycophantic movement that deemed him a victim of hedonistic disparagement. Under the guise of Christianity, he spewed inflammatory, ignorant rhetoric into mainstream America, and had many people believing Falwell was speaking with the authority of The Lord God Almighty. He may have even endangered innocent people with his bastardization of The Scriptures. The good Reverend duped people into sending him their hard-earned money, so that he could enrich himself, his staff and his church. Jerry Falwell displayed a distinctly un-Christian attitude when, after the downfall of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, both he and Pat Robertson morphed into corporate raiders, and decided to loot the assets of the PTL Ministry. Worst of all, Falwell forgot the most basic tenet of Christianity: Love others as you love yourself.

Jerry Falwell was as much a megalomaniac as anyone in the current Administration. There's a photograph on washingtonpost.com of Falwell sitting under a portrait. Now, in every rectory I've ever been in, there are paintings of Jesus, or a crucifix, or some religious reference. None of that for Falwell: The portrait he's sitting under is a self-portrait. That speaks volumes of what kind of person he was: Self-serving, egotistical, a fatuous jerk.

I'm not gonna waste precious time and energy on Jerry Falwell. He has to explain to The Real Christian why he masqueraded for over half of his life as one of His followers. However, there are many of my fellow DUers who have been irreparably harmed by Falwell's preachings, and they should be allowed to vent their anger and antipathy as they see fit.

[SueZhope]

464. Everyone is entitled

to express there thoughts and feelings on this topic.
However I agree revenge , hate and intolerance is not the answer to any thing .

Those that believe his words will still believe.

[tyedyeto]

466. This man was the personification of the religious right

Yet you and 70 others (those who have recommended this thread as I type), do not believe that the influence he had in the White House, has led us to an illegal war and helped lead our 'leaders' into an ongoing war with 'terrorists' that could last for generations. Part of what Falwell has said over the years is exactly what the * admin is saying now: either you're a Christian or you're against us.

Why do all of you 70 'recommends' think he was so great?????

I just don't understand. Yes, he died. It's sad for HIS family. But why do WE HAVE TO BE SAD FOR HIS PASSING?

[democrat2thecore]

471. Nobody is suggesting you be sad and nobody is saying Falwell was "great"

Who here has said he is "great?" WHO? Somebody recommending this thread does not mean they think Falwell is "great." You miss the point entirely if you think that. Being sad? Big difference between publicly celebrating a death and being sad. Lots of people die that I'm not sad about, but I don't go on a public message board and write some of the most hate-filled crap I have ever read. Yet, ironically, it was Jerry Falwell's "hate" given as the reason they are celebrating his death(!) Don't some of you see the disconnect here? This thread really says a lot about some of the people at DU. I'm not sad about Jerry Falwell, but I am VERY sad to see a group of people act the way I have seen today. I'm still trying to grasp the level of hatred I have read all day here at DU. It is nothing less than STUNNING to me. Sad. Very sad.

edit spelling

[Kajsa]

467. Kick and Recommended!

My sentiments, exactly.

I couldn't stand the guy.
But celebrating his death?

Aren't we better than that?

[Handsome Pete]

469. Gloating over a man's death is wrong....

so I'll just say a heart-felt little prayer for poor old Jerry's soul.

May the right Reverend Falwell get everything in the afterlife that he so richly deserves. May his True Master clutch Jerry tightly to his breast, and reward him ten-thousand fold for all his works in life. May he know the fruits of all his passionate labors infinitely and intimately, and for all eternity.

Amen.

[Raster]

475. I gloat not. But I am damned glad he won't be using me--or any other gay or bi or trans person--to

fund his hate-filled ministry any longer. Jerry Falwell was not one to be despised, he was one to be pitied. If there is a God, I do not envy Falwell. He will have to stand before his maker and justify his hatred, his racism, his bigotry and his misuse of the Almighty to enrich himself at the expense of God's other children. If, as the Bible tells us, God is love, compassion, tolerance and understanding, Brother Falwell has much to answer for.

[Danger Mouse]

472. Recommended.

Very well said.
:)

[Kajsa]

575. -----

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

598. Kajsa!

I've missed you.
:hug: How've you been?

[Kajsa]

602. Hi, Elrond!

I'm doing OK.

Did you get the PMs I sent you
a while back?

I thought you forgot all about me.
;(

I keed! ;-)

I sure miss you, too!

:hug:

[Danger Mouse]

603. I did read them.

And they meant a lot to me.
I'll send you a pm.

[Kajsa]

604. I got it.

;-)

:hi:

[MLFerrell]

474. You're right. This most certainly is NOT DU's finest hour...

DU's finest hour will come on the day (hopefully soon) when Bush meets his maker.

No, strike that. The WORLD'S finest hour will come on that day.

[motocicleta]

480. Wait for the autopsy results before you worry about the image of DU.

I see nothing in his resume beyond speech and opposable thumbs to suggest humanity, and there are other species which share those characteristics.

[TechBear_Seattle]

483. So the Munchkins, upon the death of the Wicked Witch of the East...

Should have grieved rather than burst into song?

You have absolutely no idea of how much harm and suffering that man caused to me and mine. No f-ing idea at all. Sorry, but as a gay man and an atheist, I will be celebrating for days with dance, drink and many rounds of "Ding, Dong, the Preacher's Dead." Deal with it.

[Redneck Socialist]

485. Yeah, the death of a public figure ALWAYS brings out DU's ugly side.

Sad, but true.

[bjobotts]

515. Outrage can be overwhelming but it is not ugly

Years of self-righteous social and religious repression has finally been lifted...partially and only for a day the blow-back vents from having tolerated Falwell's crap for so long like the cheers of the crowd when a traitor has been beheaded yet we are a bit more civilized...not ugly.

[William769]

487. Ok you had your say, lust like everyone else has had theirs.

All I will say is as a Gay Christian, I hope he repented before the grim reaper showed up on his door, and I'll leave it at that.

[AZBlue]

490. Couldn't agree more.

I'll be back in a few days after the ghouls stop dancing. Maybe.

[BeyondThePale]

491. He is a piece of shit and the world is a better place without him.

His life was repulsive.

And let's remember, death comes to us all -- there is nothing special about it and nothing that should make us forget his wretched behavior

[Riverman]

492. How many gay and lesbian people have been murdered, beaten-up,

fired from jobs, denied access to companions on hospital death beds, unable to get health insurance, kicked-out of military service, teenagers committed suicide due in large part to the principal role Flawell played in demonizing gay and lesbian people inthis country? I don't believe in a heaven or hell, but if there were one, clearly a God of love and retribution, as depicted in the old testament would condemn this immoral man to eternal damnation, surely! Falwell climbed over the bodies and back of gay and lesbian people for his selfish, evil motives to rally so-called christians to his church, university and politics. How many people have been slaughtered in Iraq because his ilk not only refused to stand up in public and condemn immoral wars for oil, but supported such death to non-believers. No less an American Taliban! A ugly little Charlatan, as Christopher Hitchins just called him on CNN. No just God would welcome this evil bitch of a an excuse of a human being into the heaven. He called the Anti-Christ an adult male Jew! What a fat, disgusting pig! And a pox on the houses of all how followed him AND gave him any public forum.

I would have celebrated the death of Hitler and I do Falwell's final fall.

[Divine Discontent]

517. I believe in heaven (and hell)

and I think the latter quite possibly has a new tenant... scary to think for his family, but man, what a gigantic humongous bigot that man was in this life! He single handedly caused SOOOOO much animosity towards the GLBT crowd... you nailed it Riverman - God bless us all...

[Atman]

493. Crazy thing about this thread...

First of all, I'm blown away at the response to my brief little post. I fully expected it to quickly fall off the page amidst the flood of "Ding dong the witch is dead" celebratory screeds. But now here it is. Nearly 500 responses and at the top of the front page. Why this post over all the scores of others on the topic? Clearly a nerve was struck within many of us, at some level.

But I've got to say, the most disappointing responses are the ones which call me out for asking for "compassion." Saying I don't understand the loss of loved ones to AIDS, etc. Essentially, the same kind of ignorant pre-judgements the posters hated Falwell for engaging in. But I never once asked for "compassion" for Jerry Falwell.

I've lost two friends to AIDS. I attended one of the first gay "marriages" ever conducted in Massachusetts (my cousin). This isn't a "hey, some of my best friends are gay" post. I'm just trying to inject some perspective. Many of you have pre-judged me and misrepresented what I posted in exactly the same way for which you condemn Falwell. I never asked for compassion towards the man, for he deserves little if any.

The point of my OP was not too deep; being "not sorry" to see an evil man die is in no way synonymous with demanding compassion towards that man. This thread has run a bizarre course from basic disagreement to extra-Falwellian hatred, even comparing the man to Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot! Many seem to think his death marks the end of prejudice and hatred. And then call ME naive!

I gotta admit, I'm not even sure what my point is here other than to express utter astonishment, and to thank the DUers who've been supportive and understood what I actually posted. I'm not asking or demanding anyone think any particular way. I just hoped -- Pollyanna-ish, apparently -- that we'd be able to imagine ourselves at home, receiving a telephone call wherein the voice on the other end says "I've got some bad news..." Again, as an atheist I don't buy into the rotting in hell premise, or any of that bullshit. He's going to rot in the ground, and hopefully his "church" will slowly (or quickly) follow him. But why should I celebrate as so many of you want to do? He won't see it. News flash: there is no Saint Peter to turn him away. He's gone, and only his family will hear/see the words we spew. For all we know, maybe they were sick of his bullshit, too.

Just reflect, that's all. Would you want your wake filled with people lining up to tell your family what a shitheel you were? Oh, wait...unless you believe the same crazy mystical stuff Falwell does, you won't care. You'll be as dead as Falwell.

But your sister and your mom will still be crying their eyes out at their loss.

Peace out, DU. What a day, eh?

.

[RestoreGore]

526. I know exactly where you are coming from

Thank you for showing me that there is a sane side to this forum, because I think I am going to take a little reprieve from here until this all blows over. To see EVERY post on the top of the greatest page about him in some sort of contest is to me ridiculous. I don't have the capacity to exert the energy required to hate so vehemently as his side does, and if some think that makes me a "freeper" then frankly you are ignorant. It is one thing to despise a man's ideology which I don't think ANY ONE has stated they didn't, but another to revel so gleefully that it actually makes one wonder about the person doing it. Again, I didn't like the man, he was hateful, I will continue to work against rhetoric like his, and he did many things that hurt others. He is now gone, but unfortunately that hate still lives. I think the focus now should actually be all of us coming together to END that hate, not propogate it as that in my view validates everything he has ever said, and I certainly don't wish to do that. Thanks again for your post.

[pstans]

494. Totally agree

[Tom Joad]

495. Since it has now been several hours. a tasteful polka is now acceptable

to celebrate Falwell's forced retirement from endorsing war and bigotry.

[Marr]

498. If an asshole dies on a Wednesday, it doesn't change the fact that

he was an asshole on Tuesday.

[Faryn Balyncd]

501. thanks for saying what needed to be said, atman.

[wundermaus]

503. death: the great equalizer...

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. - Genesis 3:17-19 (KJV)

[peacetalksforall]

504. I was disgusted with Cuban Americans when Castro was sick and it

was reported that he was dying. Just say Farewall, Falwell.

[provis99]

505. nothing wrong with celebrating the death of evil

what is it with all these amoral people who say Falwell was just like anyone else? No, he wasn't. He was a small-minded prick, a hypocritical evil-doer hiding behind the guise of religion and sanctimony. He was an unreformed, unrepentant bigot to the day he died. Good riddance. Good riddance to people like him. Oh, and by the way; Pat Robertson, the clock is ticking...

[ComerPerro]

506. I honestly couldn't give a shit about his "loved ones". He was a terrible person, they probably are

terrible people.

[Chovexani]

509. FUCK JERRY FALWELL.

Yeah, I said it.

[L0oniX]

542. and FUCK PAT ROBERTSON TOO

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE quote Dick Cheney: "GO FUCK YOURSELF" you bleeding heart pansy ass carrots. How about being compassionate about the dead women and children that our military has gone wild on? Instead you are sobbing and moaning about some fat, rich, deceiving wolf and then you complain about those that wish him a hot seat in hell.

:mad:

[Control-Z]

512. Ditto (eom)

[bjobotts]

513. He is as condemned as he was condemning

His ilk which he supported showed up at the funerals of known gays with ssigns and rants to condemn. Stood by with Reagan laughing at the thousands dying of AIDS while they claimed they deserved it and would also be condemned to hell while they did nothing to deal with the epidemic. The society that tolerated gays "deserved AIDS as much as the gays". The list goes on and on and on,.......Ding dong the wicked witch is dead. His family and friends are just like him. He left his minions to continue his condemnations for decades to come. The only reason millions weren't "burned at the stake" is because we had had Hitler's before and knew to keep power out of their hands but be sure his far right has a lot in common with the third reich. If your ashamed then you would be the type to close your eyes to the extinction or final solution that begat the holocaust and say "Hitler was just a man after all with friends and etc." and though Falwell wasn't Hitler it's only because we wouldn't allow it or all the gays and jews and blacks and muslims would no longer exist. TCR has a history of Falwell's doings at their site but it doesn't come close to the damage he's done with every speech trying to turn the Democracy into a Theocracy with his appointed leaders. I think it's good that so many can finally voice their outrage. He is as condemned as he was condemning...almost.

[Bluebear]

514. American Atheists: We cannot and must not lionize Rev. Jerry Falwell because he is now dead

ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists issued the following statement this afternoon regarding the death of televangelist Jerry Falwell.

“While we recognize and respect the grief of friends and relatives, it must be acknowledged in the wake of Rev. Falwell’s death that he and the organizations he founded, especially the so-called Moral Majority, were serious threats to our Constitution and, specifically, the separation of church and state.”

“Jerry Falwell was instrumental in galvanizing millions of American evangelicals into an intolerant, sectarian and authoritarian political movement. Gays, women, secularists, civil-libertarians and other groups who did not fit in to his plan to construct ‘One Nation Under God’ were stigmatized and attacked. Civil liberties were in jeopardy. Falwell and other religious right leaders advanced their political agenda in the name of Christianity, while demonizing their opponents.”

“Perhaps the most ignominious moment in Falwell’s career was his appearance with Rev. Pat Robertson on a television program which blamed the terrorist attacks of September 11 not on Islamic fundamentalist fanatics, but on a wide swath of the American people -- women (because of their support for abortion), gay and lesbian Americans, and individuals and organizations like American Atheists which labor for the separation of church and state.”

“We cannot and must not lionize Rev. Jerry Falwell because he is now dead. We expect that some politicians beholden to the religious right, who perhaps owe their political careers in part to Falwell, will praise him for his religiosity or avuncular style. The truth is, however, that the Rev. Jerry Falwell was a dangerous man who opposed and worked against many of the key values underpinning our secular American democracy.”

– Ellen Johnson, President
AMERICAN ATHEISTS

[LittleClarkie]

519. Perhaps some of them could organize for the funeral

you know, like that Fred Phelps fellow.

They could picket outside the cemetery, and if some of them get bold enough, they can go and laugh in the family's faces. Imagine the hilarity that will ensue.

After all, if you're proud enough of your behavior to post it on a message board, how much prouder will you be if you have the guts to do it to someone's face.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

520. What he stood for and what he said was vile

I see his death as a stopping of his vileness. His family? Well, they are not coming to DU for consolation, now, are they? Freepers using these threads as demos of our hate? As if we said nothing, they'd point out with awe and respect how we took the higher road. Hatred making us them? No. When anything vile is stopped, cold, it is a good thing.

[OneBlueSky]

521. I'm dismayed to see so much hatred expressed by DU members . . .

some of the comments on this thread are so vile that I'm ashamed to be associated with the website on which they are posted . . .

[Bluebear]

522. Since we share the same sig line :)

ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists issued the following statement this afternoon regarding the death of televangelist Jerry Falwell.

“While we recognize and respect the grief of friends and relatives, it must be acknowledged in the wake of Rev. Falwell’s death that he and the organizations he founded, especially the so-called Moral Majority, were serious threats to our Constitution and, specifically, the separation of church and state.”

“Jerry Falwell was instrumental in galvanizing millions of American evangelicals into an intolerant, sectarian and authoritarian political movement. Gays, women, secularists, civil-libertarians and other groups who did not fit in to his plan to construct ‘One Nation Under God’ were stigmatized and attacked. Civil liberties were in jeopardy. Falwell and other religious right leaders advanced their political agenda in the name of Christianity, while demonizing their opponents.”

“Perhaps the most ignominious moment in Falwell’s career was his appearance with Rev. Pat Robertson on a television program which blamed the terrorist attacks of September 11 not on Islamic fundamentalist fanatics, but on a wide swath of the American people -- women (because of their support for abortion), gay and lesbian Americans, and individuals and organizations like American Atheists which labor for the separation of church and state.”

“We cannot and must not lionize Rev. Jerry Falwell because he is now dead. We expect that some politicians beholden to the religious right, who perhaps owe their political careers in part to Falwell, will praise him for his religiosity or avuncular style. The truth is, however, that the Rev. Jerry Falwell was a dangerous man who opposed and worked against many of the key values underpinning our secular American democracy.”

– Ellen Johnson, President
AMERICAN ATHEISTS

[Baby Snooks]

524. Falwell's "Final Solution"

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

And with that, Jerry Falwell condemned millions of people not only in this country but around the world to a horrible death from AIDS.

It was his "final solution" and he hoped it would kill those he felt that "Christianity" excluded from "God's love." Gay men and Blacks and other minorities. The man was as evil as Hitler.

If people are rejoicing, it is because Hitler is dead. But beneath the rejoicing is grief for all his victims.

May he rot in hell and may those who have kind words for him, including Al Sharpton, join him there.

[NastyDiaper]

525. In spite of his "reprehensible politics and hate-filled persona",

:crickets:

[BoneDaddy]

527. Totally Agreed

I found Falwell appalling but to show such a lack of class to celebrate his death is similar to the Freeper mentality.

[Cobalt Violet]

528. Brotherhood is sexist.

Acceptance of his bigoty is just plain stupid. He was an enemy. I'm glad he is gone.

Let the people express what they feel. So be it.

[AAARRRGGGHHH]

530. Jerry Falwell used

the deaths and sufferings of others to advance his political agenda. I'm using his death and suffering to celebrate mine.

Childish and judgmental of me? Who cares. I don't want the MSM to be able to spin him into some sort of heroic and misunderstood figure, so I'll scream from the rooftops how evil he truly was, and how we as a society are better off because of his demise.

And how happy, yes happy, I am that it happened.

[dave_p]

531. No, not our finest hour

But it wasn't meant to be.

Political passion's messy. Stuff happens. An absence of compassion on the part of others doesn't instil good feeling in us.

Yes, it was excessive. But nobody wanted him killed. He died, and folk thought that was an improvement for the world. I concur.

But it wasn't our finest hour.

[comtec]

537. Let people Vent

Most people have been done a great dis service by this former person.
I will hardly be dancing on his grave, but i won't denounce the people who have terribly evil things to say about him. I would also point out, that much of what is said about him is simply fact. Some may be rhetoric, but in general it's fact. Let people vent.

Since people are throwing around verses left and right, I would remind you of the one where Jesus pointed to the man praying on the street and warned about the pharacies <sp>.

[Jamastiene]

533. Well, they are cheering you on at quite a few

right wing web sites, who shall remain nameless, with this post. One even went so far as to say you are more than welcome to go there instead of here.

[mwb970]

534. Well I'm sorry, but I'm glad he's dead.

The OP says:

Regardless of his obviously reprehensible politics and hate-filled persona, he was still a man with a family and loved ones.

I'm sorry, but when a "hate-filled" man with "obviously reprehensible politics" is removed from the national scene, it is a cause for celebration, family and loved ones or no.

Wait till you see the party when Prick Cheney finally slithers to Hell!

[progressoid]

535. Lets see...One non-fine hour on DU vs. 73 years of repugnance

feh.

[zanne]

539. I don't think we should say that we're glad he's dead...

But we can think it, can't we?

[Name removed]

541. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atman]

546. What does one have to do with the other?

Where has anyone said we shouldn't show some compassion for all the dead Iraqi women and children? Talk about a non sequitur! Take a valium and calm down, man. You're going to pop a blood vessel with all that rage roiling inside you.

.

[Buzz Clik]

544. THANK YOU!

Don't like Falwell, but these celebrations make me ill.

[bluescribbler]

545. Agreed

As I said to some political friends last night, I won't celebrate, but neither will I mourn.

K&R

[indepat]

549. One DUer who did not hate Jerry nor is glad he died: I only despised him with passion

[kegler14]

552. I have to agree with you.

I have nothing but contempt for peoeple who talk about wanting to spit in his face and other kindergarten type reactions.

[Turbineguy]

554. Be that as it may...

Out of the over 100,000 Members only some 500 or so wrote something, shall we say, "not nice".

That's a very low percentage.

Consider it practicing for when Karl Rove drops off the twig.

[ManWroteTheBible]

559. 3 words...

"Civil Wrongs Movement" ~ Jerry Falwell

Though I do not rejoice in the death of what I would loosely refer to as another human being, I certainly shed no tears for the death of Jerry Falwell - nor do I wish him peace in his eternal slumber. "Burning in Hell" is not punative enough and personally, I hope it hurt in the end. The world is a better place without him. Now, if we could just get The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight to follow the good reverend's shining example of yesterday...

[fazoolius_2006]

562. Reprehensible

Sure, some might disagree with the guy, but should anyone be dancing on the grave of someone that just died. Instead, I think everyone should be looking at how to move on and look to the future.

[Beelzebud]

563. It's not DU's darkest hour either...

[MADem]

566. Gee, wouldn't HIDE THREAD solve all that angst?

Really...if a post is a genuine problem, the moderators and administrators handle it. Scolding people for their opinion, is just well, an opinion, too.

No one's guaranteed a feeling of comfort when discussing the news of the day. Some things do creep us out--like the way that guy treated his fellow human beings....

[Politicub]

571. Until now, I haven't said anything at all

Because I can't think of even one good thing to say about Falwell. Not one thing.

When someone as polarizing as Fallwell dies, it can bring out some sharp emotions from people. I think you should cut DUers some slack.

[BlueGirlRedState]

572. I agree

When I saw the posts yesterday punctuated by the F word over and over, I thought the same.

I agree with Randi Rhodes, who spend most of her show yesterday going over all the evil this man has done. I'm glad he's gone. But I don't find it an occasion to dance on his grave.

[Hamlette]

573. failing to point out how he degraded our society could lead to revisionist history

with Falwell coming out as a hero.

Falwell did it to all of us on September 13, 2001. He deserves no less now.

Watching all the GOP candidates fawn over him last night did it for me.

For history's sake, we need to remember, every day, just how evil a force he was and how he helped turn our nation into a right wing hate machine.

No tears from me.

[ejbr]

574. I am celebrating, but not over his death

I am celebrating for having one less thorn in my ass. And trust me, I am very PROUD to be celebrating this event, regardless of how it came to be.

[AIJ Alom]

576. Agreed. Why let Jerry Falwell accomplish his goals of hate

and division through our own celebrations of our passing.
First I heard of his death, I thought of Tinky Winky and all the harm the man has done. But I will not give in to hate. Tolerance and temperament because I choose the path of acceptance of all individuals, even those who practice hate.

[footinmouth]

577. I have to agree with you

I wasn't able to find anything nice to say about the man so I chose to say nothing at all. Rest in peace, JF.

[LanternWaste]

578. He blamed me for the Sept. 11 attacks, but I didn't care...

He blamed me (among others)for the Sept. 11 attacks, but I just didn't care-- I've been called worse things by many other people. He denigrated life-styles. He minimized some Americans and marginalized many humans. He was an enabler of many of the hot-button topics in American politics and was unapologetic for that.

But I still don't care. He had no direct influence on me; and if I listened to his words, it was only because I chose to listen to his words. But I never listened. I marginalized him as he marginalized others. I shut him out of my consciousness as he shut many out of his.

He was an enabler of hate in many people and he was an enabler of love in many others. But the Hate and Love he enabled can be put only on those who chose to Hate or chose to Love-- and chances are, they would have made those same choices with or without him.

My family, my job, my friends would still be my family, my job and my friends with or without him. There was simply zero impact on my life because of him. My speaking ill of him would be akin to a tirade of pejoratives against a rock. That is to say, useless.

He had good qualities and he had bad qualities... as do we all. He was human and now he's dead. That's my eulogy for him. For some, it may not be tolerant enough and for others, not intolerant enough.

The only impact his death has on me is that I'll hear about 20 additional minutes of news regarding him when I otherwise would have been hearing twenty minutes of other puff pieces.

But I will say this, as I hope Jimmy Carter and Pol Pot are in heaven, as I hope Kennedy and Stalin are with God, as I hope Hitler and Mother Theresa are in His Grace, so I hope Falwell is too. Because no matter what a person does to me, thinks about me, says to me-- it can never be so vile, so terrifying, so horrific as an eternity without Him. But that's just my opinion.

[YOY]

579. I'm just wondering if the man had any redeeming actions

We all know his negative actions. He twisted Christianity. He was a televangelist who hijacked the Republican party. He said some very racist things. He influenced the religious right in ways that were despicable. He thought Tinky Winky was subversive. He fricking blamed gays for 9-11...and some people bought it!

Did he ever feed the poor? Did he help the helpless? Any real acts of kindness? Surely there must have been a one.

I am honestly asking, did he ever do anything nice that anyone is aware of? Something that can universally be regarded as a good deed by all but the irrevocably insane?

[eagler]

580. Wonder if Reverend Moon will be attending the funeral?

If it hadn't been for him there would have been no Liberty U.

[closeupready]

581. OH give me a break.

:eyes:

[L. Coyote]

585. Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.

"You have to give America's most-hated Christian a lot of credit. Even in taking his final fall (while alive), to the floor in his office at oxymoronic "Liberty University" in solitude, he pulled off a thorough going coup like noone else could have mustered...."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=899312&mesg_id=899312

[dmallind]

586. Serious question

I don't want to take "sides" here but it seems everyone is taking as axiomatic something that has never made any sense to me.

Where does this meme - no more than that - this social stricture come from that one cannot, should not, or dare not speak frankly about someone who is recently dead? Why is it even a question of whether we will offend believers (I thought all DU believers kept telling people they, and most Christians even, weren't like Falwell in any way shape or form - why then would they take offense at criticism of him?) or freepers or Republicans (like it would make any difference - we do that by existing).

Would anyone on the "hand wringing" side have had a single kind or restrained or courteous or polite word to say about the man two days ago? If not why should we do so now?

Would anyone on the "grave pissing" side be forgiving of a smilar reaction if an ardent and abrasive lefty died - say Franken or Sheehan? If not why hold up people who you probably consider "lesser" to standards you don't adhere to?

Frankly I can't agree with either side entirely, or disagree entirely either. I simply ask the question why both sides buy into the cultural norm that what someone says about a recently deceased person has ANY different impact thatn what they say about, for example, Pat Robertson who is still alive, or W J Bryan who died long ago?

I'll say nothing about Falwell today that I wouldn't last week, and I will not scruple or hesitate to say those things just because the tense has changed; but then I invoke no sophistry about why it's OK for me to say those things but not OK for freepers to do the same about Wellstone. If we hated him in life we should hate him in death or all is hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty. If freepers hated Wellstone in life why should we assume they should not in death? Agreeing with their assessment ios not required. We just have to stop pretending that there should be a difference in how we, or anyone else, discuss people just because of how long ago they stopped breathing.

[Atman]

587. Serious answer: I think you should have said it to his face last week.

Saying it today, you're doing nothing but adding to the pain of his family members.

Cali just posted a very similar question as yours, and my response works just as well here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=901540&mesg_id=901670

.

[dmallind]

588. Had he been in front of me I would have

As it is I am pretty damn sure I criticized him plenty of times in exactly the same type of forum, and probably even the same forum, as the one where people are hand-wringing about him being criticized now. Would his loved ones NOT have been offended had they strolled through DU last week and searched for mentions of his name? He's showing up a lot more now of course but that's because he's a big news story. had he come out with another of his usual braindead vitriolic pronouncements instead of dying he'd have got a lot of the same comments. Why worry more about offending them now than then? In what possible way could someone saying something bad about your lost father/husband whatever change the pain you feel for his death? I mean is it feasible that they were only at 8 on the sadness scale but reading that a bunch of lefty secularist gay-rights supporting Bush-hating anti-war Democrats really didn't like him one bit is going to push them to 9? Is it in any way likely they didn't KNOW that people like us weren't exactly fans?

The whole point is that I don't buy that people should be more offended, or more protected from potential offense, just because it's been less than X days since someone they knew died. Especially when the person in question and presumably most of his nearest and dearest assume that that means he's singing away up in Paradise right now?

[Atman]

590. X days? Sadness scale?

It seems to me from reading your post that you've never lost someone very close to you.

If Jerry Falwell were alive and you were able to get in his face and tell him how you really feel, he would have been able to defend himself, or tell you to piss off, or condemn you to hell. But he's not alive. He'd dead. Your tirade against him therefore bumps to the next level, his family. As I've stated previously, maybe they were kinda embarrassed that the old man was such a crazy coot, too. Maybe not, but you don't know. What you do know is that a family has lost a loved one. Your argument is with that deceased member, not the rest of the family. Unless you want it to be, in which case you should call them out and demand an explanation as to why they didn't stop ol grandad from being such a prick. But what you're doing is picking a fight against a dead guy. The safest fight of all. You could have camped out on Falwell's doorstep 10 years ago and demanded to speak to him. But instead, you've waited until he can't possibly hear you. The only people with any chance of hearing you are his family members, who, like it or not, accept it or not, are grieving. What is your purpose then in going for THEIR jugulars? Because your vitriol is not reaching Jerry.

If it's ultimately just all about you feeling better for having been able to vent, have the cajones to say so. Don't pull this "I woulda if I had the chance!" bullshit. You apparently didn't have the chance, and now he's dead. Why beat up on his family or it?

.

[dmallind]

595. I think you miss the point.

The silliness of the sadness scale and X days is intentional because it points out that we are making a double standard whereby the newly dead cannot be criticized, but the living and long dead are fair game. Should people insulting Jerry NOT have bothered his family last week - whether he was there or not? Should it bother them less a year from now when he'll still not be there to defend himself? Your responses all assume the tautology that is the very thing I'm questioning - why is it that newly dead people should (not DO - that answer is easy - because it's a cultural norm) get a get out of jail free card for criticism? It CAN'T be because he's not there to defend himself - because otherwise we would not be able to freely criticize anyone who is dead. It SHOULDN'T be because his family will get offended because there is no reason to assume they wouldn't take equal offense any other time - and actually no rational reason why their offense should differ at all.

I am not a fan of personal anecdotes to make points but you bring up the (irrelevant and incorrect) assumption that I must not have lost anyone close to me. I certainly have. Not too many people get to my age without doing so. But there are two reasons why it wouldn't matter anyway: a)because I'm discussing cultural norms and my individual influence on these is minuscule, and b) I was able to rationally discuss both the good and the bad of those I have lost immediately thereafter, just as I had before and since. My mother did not stop being, in life, both a steadfast and capable matriarch AND a bigoted reverse snob just after she died and then gradually return to that in the years afterwards. I could see, and discuss, and accept, the good and the bad the day after she died just like the day before and all the other days.

Maybe Jerry Falwell was a great dad, full of wise counsel and generous attention. Maybe he was a great boss who encouraged and developed his staff and helped them balance their work and home life. For his followers certainly he was a powerful voice for their view of God, however strange that may seem to us. They can remember that all they want, but why should it not be equally valid for others to remember him for his vicious bigotry and polemics? Whay does the truth, or honest opinion, have to take a few days/weeks/months off after somebody dies? THAT's my question - Falwell and the furor over reactions to his death are just examples - I don't limit anything I'm asking to him nor do I need to worry about venting. I hold no repressed loathing for Jerry Falwell because I didn't suppress it when he was alive.

[closeupready]

591. Nonsense.

He was a controversial public figure. It is a fallacy to claim that to speak badly of him is to actually HARM those who loved him.

[EFerrari]

597. You mean, those family members who supported his poisonous attacks

on American citizens?

Those family members?

They can cry me a fucking river.

[Atman]

615. Which ones?

They'll get their's, too, one day, if they indeed supported him. You didn't name any of them or offer any specifics, though I'm sure some of them believed the same vile crap he did. But the fact is, you're just making an assumption, you don't actually list any family members deserving to suffer for the "sins of the father." (if you believe in that sort of thing, which you apparently do)

.

[EFerrari]

617. Why don't we start with Junior:

September 5, 2006
The Falwell Family History

Forbes profiles Rev. Jerry Falwell and his son, Jerry Falwell Jr. and their efforts to turn Liberty University into a “a West Point for the faithful.”

The article examines how the Falwells turned their business around after falling into a $100 million debt which stemmed from the school’s reliance on Falwell’s dwindling ministry. Part of the recovery can be attributed to the fact that they have received multi-million dollar donations from the likes of best-selling “Left Behind” author Tim LaHaye, who donated $7 million to “build an ice rink and a student center with five basketball courts and an Olympic-size pool.”

The Falwells still have a long way to go to reach their goal - a one billion dollar endowment - but Forbes offers this anecdote testifying to the family’s tenacity

"he Falwells have a history of persuasiveness in Lynchburg (pop.: 65,269), where 56 relatives are buried. Jerry Sr.'s father, Carey Hezekiah Falwell, ran a string of gas stations during Prohibition, using his fuel trucks to smuggle bootleg whiskey. After Carey shot his younger brother to death in self-defense, he became an alcoholic with a nasty knack for keeping his staff in line. An employee called in sick one day, so Falwell caught the man's cat, killed and cooked it, then delivered the remains to the employee's home as a complimentary lunch. And once, after a drunken patron turned belligerent at a Falwell-owned restaurant, Carey grabbed the customer and threw him into a bear cage, where he was maimed by the beast, then set free. Tough dudes, these Falwells."

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2006/09/the_falwell_fam.html

[Occulus]

613. Would we have been able to say it to his face a week ago?

A month ago?

How about a year ago, Atman? Do you think he would have held an audience with any of us, for any reason... at any time?

Noncontributors, all, mind you- I can't imagine anyone here would pay money to Falwell's organization just to say something to his face; that sort of defeats the purpose.

He, Himself- Jerry Falwell. How might we see and speak to him, directly, were he still alive?

How about if we called and called and called and called and called and called and called and called and called and called?

No? Gosh, we'd talk to his attorneys before we talked to him (you can go try it with Phelps, if you like- I hear they're real understanding about this sort of thing).

:freak:

Well, then, I don't see how your argument is anything but a rather obnoxiously transparent strawman. None of us would have been able to say to his face what we wanted to a week ago, and thus your premise is false.

The logic twisting that has been going on around here surrounding this topic has been... educational. Thank you for teaching me some more.

[Atman]

614. Yeah, I've taught you some horrible things, eh?

That I, for one, feel that being just as vile and hateful as Falwell only makes one sound just as vile and hateful as Falwell. Even in his passing he'll reap the karma he has sown, as will we all.


.

[LeftyMom]

600. Well, he wasn't attacking you. If he was, you'd likely be joining in the well-deserved grave pissing

Don't worry though, one of us will drink a little extra to be able make up for you and all the other individuals suffering from an excess of concern.

[Skittles]

605. f*** Jerry Falwell

he reaped what he sowed

[Xenotime]

606. Nobody had a problem with it when Ken Lay died..

So, what's the fucking point?

[JuniperLea]

607. So happy to know that so many literary greats offend the concern trolls...

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Mark Twain

"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork."
Mae West

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go."
Oscar Wilde

"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."
Clarence Darrow


Edited to say... Mae may not be a literary great, but she was great!

[Truthseeker013]

608. This is NOT DU's finest hour!

I can't agree with you enough. Problem is, people who stir potent emotions in others, such as Mister Falwell did, tend to get those potent emotions shoved back up their tailpipes when they die. Human nature, at its worst.

[GoneOffShore]

611. I'll point you to another post

Read this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=896159&mesg_id=896159

And then come back and repeat that we're no better than the evil bastards who would see us: you, me, and every other poster on this board, dead or incarcerated or enslaved.

We don't wish them dead, but when they die, we cheer. And his sons will no doubt carry on the venomous work he started. He did more to change the political landscape in this country by forging an unholy alliance between theocrats and authoritarian politicians than anyone since Hitler. He was evil personified.

As another poster said: " When you tolerate people like Falwell, you're not tolerant. You are complicit."

[Atman]

616. You know what's most amazing?

That as of post #615, the mods only felt the need to delete ONE post. One post out of 615. I've seen thirty-post threads with half a dozen deletions. I think is shows that, even in deep disagreement about a very contentious subject, DUers can maintain civility when we want to. Ironic, given the subject matter, but pretty impressive nonetheless. Thanks to every poster in this rather incredible thread. Quite an eye opener.

Peace.

.

[snagglepuss]

619. Treating a corpse with respect is just pure hypocrisy if one hasn't

respected that individual while he was alive. So what if he was a man with loved ones. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mussolini etc etc etc were all men with families that "loved" them. Yeah they were men alright - pathetic, evil, egotistical, neurotic men. Their families may have mourned them but I spit on their graves and praise the day the breathed their last breath.