If you use CFL light bulbs pls be aware of this toxic clean up procedure:

[mod mom]

After a busy day of hiking, I was dead tired and ready to hit the sack. It was 10:30 pm and my 12 yo daughter was in bed reading when a bug flew into her room. She is terrified of bugs and attempted to move her gooseneck floor lamp into the living room as it was attracting this bug. In her haste she knocked over the lamp and 2 CFL bulbs burst when they hit the floor. She called for help and although we knew they contained toxic mercury, we were unsure of the procedure to clean it up. Thank goodness for the internet. I decided to post the procedure here so that others, especially those with small children & animals are aware of what to do in case this happens to them: (BTW I AM SWITCHING TO THE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE LED BULBS TODAY!)

SOURCE: http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html


Before Cleanup: Air Out the Room

Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
Cleanup Steps for Hard Surfaces

Carefully scoop up glass pieces and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
Cleanup Steps for Carpeting or Rug

Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.
Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
Cleanup Steps for Clothing, Bedding and Other Soft Materials

If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage.
You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct con tact with the materials from the broken bulb.
If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.
Disposal of Cleanup Materials

Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup.
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.
Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming

The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming.
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.

[Statistical]

1. Have you priced LED bulbs?

$30 - $40 (or more) for ones that still output less light than CFL.

I can't afford $1,000+ to replace the lights in my homes for crappier light output.
LED is a good technology but it isn't ready yet (in terms of light output per $) but companies are rushing it.

[mod mom]

3. Look online-not as expensive and....

LED Light Bulbs save 90% energy, last up to 60,000 hours, are cool to the touch, unbreakable and save time and money.

I found a site for $10.99, still high, but if you have children worth the peace of mind.

[Statistical]

6. Check the lumens before you buy to price apples to apples..

Lumens is a measure of light output (brightness). Watts is simply a measure of energy consumed.

So something that is "60 watt" equivalent doesn't necessarily output the same amount of light as 60 watt bulb. "60 watt equivalent" is just marketing speak.

Just for reference a "traditional light bulb" outputs about
40 watt - 500 lumens
60 watt - 800 lumens
75 watt - 1200 lumens
100 watt - 1600 lumens
150 watt - 2000+ lumens

Lumens is what you sense as brightness; it is what matters not wattage. A company can call any bulb (from 1 lumen to 10,000 lumens) as a 100 watt replacement. However if it doesn't output 1600 lumens it will be dimmer. If it outputs less than 1200 lumens the "100 watt replacement" will be dimmer than 75 watt bulb.


Most $10 LED are about 100-200 lumens (or less) a negigble amount of output. You aren't going to find something with 600 lumens (close but still lower than 60W traditional bulb) for less than $40.

Here is an example comparison:
http://www.amazon.com/Pharox-III-DIMMABLE-Watt-Light/dp/B002BZTG4I/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1281445703&sr=8-13

6 watts, claims to be "60watt replacement" for $47.50. Output is 300 lumens. Despite the claim of it being "60 watt replacement" it is really closer to 20 watt or 30 watt bulb. If you use this instead of a 13 watt CFL or 60 watt traditional it will be significantly (50%) dimmer.

As a comparison here is a 8 pack of CFL (roughly $1 per bulb). Personally I would spend more and get a "cool white" (4100K) or "daylight bulb" (5000K).

http://www.amazon.com/GE-13-Watt-Energy-SmartTM-replacement/dp/B000NISDNU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1281446432&sr=8-1
$1, 13 watt, 850 lumens.


So comparison:

Incandescent <$1    60 watt 850 lumens.
CFL          $1-$3  13 watt 850 lumens (initially will degrade over time)
LED          $47.50  6 watt 300 lumens

The other thing you will notice is that the LED despite only using half the watts of the CFL has less than half the light output. Thus it isn't any more efficient. 2 LED bubls would be $90 12 watts & 600 lumens still less than 13watt/850 lumens of the CFL.

LED is a great future technology but it is being oversold by companies trying to get in on the "green action" today. You likely will be horribly disappointed with what $10 in LED can actually buy.

[unhappycamper]

4. Costco (in the Boston area) has been selling CFL bulbs for as low as $1.49 for four 25 watters.

I've replaced most of the bulbs in my home and have noticed a significant difference (~25%) in my electric bill.

I've been taking a trunk load of CFL bulbs to my family in Georgia every year.

[Statistical]

7. CFL are a good price today. The OP was talking about replacing low cost CFL w/ higher cost LED.

I wouldn't mind the higher cost of LED but significantly higher cost (3x, 4x, 10x) AND lower output (sometimes 30%-50% less). Sorry no deal.

[mod mom]

8. If you want to use them, then at least be aware of the potential hazard &

clean up procedure. :hi:

[Warpy]

10. Same here

I've broken a couple of CFLs and followed the cleanup procedure above without reading it, only I've sealed the remains into a baggie instead of a glass jar. I did shoo the cat out and make sure the room aired out before I cleaned it up.

When I was a kid, we used to play with mercury, coating pennies and trying to pass them off as dimes (didn't work, the coating didn't last long enough and stores knew that trick) and I lived on tuna fish sandwiches at least twice a week. If I'm not deranged or dead yet, a broken CFL bulb isn't going to do it.

I will be thrilled when LED lights are perfected. Right now, they're really best as head lamps, something I find extremely useful when I'm working on the computer, rummaging through a closet, reading in bed, or coping with our frequent summer power outages. Unfortunately, they're not adequate for general lighting. They've still got a way to go before I convert to them.

I have CFL bulbs I put in almost 15 years ago when I bought this dump that are still working. I originally made the switch because I hate having to get the stepladder to change ceiling lights every few weeks. LED light bulbs will have even longer life, so they're probably going to make economic sense when they're perfected.

However, CFLs are the best we've got now and I'll stick to them, thanks.

[The Wielding Truth]

2. And I used to play with liquid mercury as a kid. Anyone else ever coat a dime with it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Many times

Ridiculous OP.

[mod mom]

12. Ridiculous, then tell the EPA, NPR & the Boston Globe:

Mercury leaks found as new bulbs break
Energy benefits of fluorescents may outweigh risk

-snip
Mercury is a naturally occurring metal that accumulates in the body and can harm the nervous system of a fetus or young child if ingested in sufficient quantity.

For the Maine study, researchers shattered 65 compact fluorescents to test air quality and cleanup methods. They found that, in many cases, immediately after the bulb was broken - and sometimes even after a cleanup was attempted - levels of mercury vapor exceeded federal guidelines for chronic exposure by as much as 100 times.

There is no federal guideline for acute exposure. Some states, including Maine, use the chronic exposure level as their overall standard, while others, such as California, have chosen higher levels for acute exposure. Still, the mercury vapor released by the bulbs in the Maine study exceeded even those higher levels.


-snip

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/02/26/mercury_leaks_found_as_new_bulbs_break/



CFL Bulbs Have One Hitch: Toxic Mercury
by ELIZABETH SHOGRE

-snip

Mercury is a potent neurotoxin, and it's especially dangerous for children and fetuses. Most exposure to mercury comes from eating fish contaminated with mercury,

Some states, cities and counties have outlawed putting CFL bulbs in the trash, but in most states the practice is legal.

Pete Keller works for Eco Lights Northwest, the only company in Washington state that recycles fluorescent lamps. He says it is illegal to put the bulbs in the trash in some counties in Washington, but most people still throw them out.

"I think most people do want to recycle, but if it's not made easy, it doesn't happen," Keller says. "And they're small enough to fit in a trash can. So by nature, I think most people are not recyclers. So if it's small enough to fit in a trash can, that's where it ends up."


-snip

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198


SOME OF US PREFER TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE WHEN IT COMES TO PROTECTING OUR FAMILIES FROM NEUROTOXINS! :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. My siblings and I should all be dead

And the neighborhood kids too.

[Statistical]

15. It is a good to be cautious and ventilate but the risk isn't that high.

You likely get more mercury from fish than you will get from 1000 broken bulbs.

[trotsky]

16. Key words:

if ingested in sufficient quantity

No one is disputing that mercury is a poison. However the amount of hysterics here is not justified.

[mod mom]

18. It's apparently fumes & fine particles that pose majority of danger

but to some here ignorance is bliss. I'd rather be on the side of caution when it comes potential neurotoxins around my family.

[KansasVoter]

34. Not very nice. The OP was trying to be helpful!

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Actually the OP is pretty much word for word a right wing email

that has been going around since Inconvenient Truth debuted in theaters.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Teachers used to pass around a beaker of mercury to pour into our hands and play with

Every science class did it back then.

Crazy.

Don

[northoftheborder]

20. mercury at school

I remember passing around a large blob of mercury in science class. I was fascinated with it, and would save the mercury whenever we broke our glass thermometers at home. I know it is poisonous, but perhaps only with extended repeated exposure.

[RKP5637]

23. We used to pour a little puddle of mercury onto the old slope topped wooden desks, watch it fall to

the floor and break into tiny balls and roll all over the place. One kid had about 1/2 a peanut butter jar full of mercury, no idea where he got it... this was decades and decades and decades ago.

[Posteritatis]

39. I've always thought it monstrously unfair that mercury is even the least bit toxic

No element that fun should be dangerous, dammit.

[brendan120678]

9. Huh...I've had one break and all we did...

was pick up the larger shards, toss 'em in the trash, and vacuum up the finer powder.
It's such a small amount of mercury it is not going to harm even a flea.

I dislike the CFLs in general, not because I'm anti-green or anything, but more so a matter of convenience.
I don't like the illumination/light given off by CFLs, and very few CFLs are truly dimmable. The few that claim to be do so poorly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Bar the door!!

LOL

[doc03]

17. Like all EPA regulations they carry the precautions to

the point of being ridiculous. I am surprised they don't demand you have your house torn down and disposed of in a hazardous waste landfill. I worked 40 years in a steel mill and was exposed to mercury, lead, zinc, CO, coal dust dust, asbestos and a thousand other hazardous materials. If that hasn't killed me yet I sure as hell am not going to worry about breaking a CFL bulb. Like another poster said my teacher also passed a vial of mercury around to play with in school and we had an asbestos roof that was supposed to be the latest fire proof technology I'm still here.

[mod mom]

19. like it's safe to eat seafood from the gulf?

[doc03]

21. I don't know if it safe by the governments standards to eat

any fish period. I recently looked at the West Virginia fishing regulations, I swear there isn't a body of water in the state where it safe to eat the fish more than once a month. This is decades after all the environmental regulations made people start cleaning up their water.

[RKP5637]

24. Throw seafood on the floor several times first to knock any mercury out! In a

restaurant, try to do it when no one is looking. :) I'm seriously getting so I wonder about anything we eat, anymore.

[Statistical]

26. I figure in 20-30 years we will eat vat cloned meat product. n/t

[Statistical]

22. Here is another solution....

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/shatter-resistant-cfl-compact-fluorescents/

More expensive than normal CFL but still a magnitude cheaper than LED. $5 vs $40+

[Johonny]

30. cool

thx for the link

[NoNothing]

25. Statistical is right

Ignore the "watts" - look for the lumens. That is an actual measure of brightness. I like CFL lights a lot because you can get very bright lights for low cost that are quite energy efficient. I also like the high color temperatures you can get. A cool white bulb will simulate reflected sunlight and seems to me to "feel" brighter than it is.

EDIT: Also wanted to point out that because of semiconductor droop, all but the most recent LED's are actually less efficient on a watt/lumen basis. So even yet, in many cases, CFL provides the most light for the least amount of energy.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. Ahem... ALL fluorescent tubes contain mercury, even those 4 foot ones...

in the garage and basement and the circular ones in the kitchen fixtures. The mercury, and a very tiny amount it is, exists as a liquid until the light is on, then it becomes a gas and assists the electrical currents exciting the phosphors.

So, if you break one that's off, carefully sweep it up. If you break one that's on, be even more careful. But you're not gonna die, and you probably will get more mercury from eating fish or breathing the smokestack emissions from coal power plants.

Speaking of phosphors, if you cut yourself with a piece of broken fluorescent tube, the phosphors on that piece are more dangerous than the tiny bit of mercury you might breath in. Get medical attention.

[Gold Metal Flake]

28. Thank you.

Conservatives started screaming about the "dangers" of CFLs ten years ago as another way of reinforcing the Crazy Treehugger meme. Of course they never mention that we have been living with fluorescent lights for about 80 years now. Just more fear mongering to induce and maintain an anti-liberal political response from the weak-minded.

[Statistical]

29. More directly 50% of power in this country comes from coal.

Coal contains a significant fraction of mercury.

Even if 100% of bulbs are destroyed rather than recyled then net increase in mercury into the environment decreases due to the 75% or so reduction in electrical usage.

Of course everyone SHOULD recycle CFL. Mercury is not just dangerous it is also valuable. It is a waste to put it into the trash. Most retail locations which sell CFL also have a CFL recycling box. If they don't; ask why not?

[Gold Metal Flake]

31. Also communities often have home hazardous waste roundups.

Folks can take their long fluorescent bulbs there if the retail locations do not accept them. I have many 48" fluorescent fixtures in the garage and shed and I save my old bulbs for the roundup (along with old paint, old electronics and car batteries).

[Statistical]

32. Here is the chart comparison mercuy emissions from "normal" light bulb to CFL.

[Gold Metal Flake]

33. Nice chart!

Would this be for a single bulb vs. a single bulb? Like a 60 watt IC vs. a 60W-equivalent (probably an 18 watt) CFL?

[Statistical]

35. Yeah the chart doesn't say but the math works out for a 60 watt bulb (and 13 watt CFL).

Average US electrical grid mercury emissions is 0.012 mg per kWh.
The bulb on right emits 5.8mg thus it is 5.8mg / 0.012 mg per kWh = 483.3 kWh.
Chart is for 8,000 hours so 483.3 kWh / 8000 h = 60w.

The left
1.2 mg / 0.12mg per kWh = 100 kWh / 8000 h = 12.5w


I got it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

[Gold Metal Flake]

36. Nice!

Of course, one could not get past the first sentence of explaining the chart to a repuke before he spouts some conversation-derailing insult about Clinton.

[Statistical]

37. I explain it in terms of $$$$. Money is a universal language.

One 75watt replacement works out to about $20 savings per year. Average home was 20 lights. That is $400 a year.

If they are repukes tell them "fuck the environment.... $400 is $400".

IF they do it for the "wrong reasons" who cares. They are still cutting consumption and emissions. :)