Why is it an insult to want Canadian-style health care?

[LostinVA]

Seriously, why?

[valerief]

1. It isn't an insult. Canadian bacon is an insult. nt

[HEyHEY]

119. Yeah, you guys created it, can't even get it here that easily.

[Jamastiene]

128. Hey!

I love Canadian bacon. Send it all down here. I'll take it. Don't bash Canadian bacon, dude. It's one of the few types of pork I actually like. x(

[Winterblues]

2. Why do you hate America

:shrug: USA...USA...USA...USA

[enlightenment]

3. Got me . . .

That whole statement sounded like he cribbed it from the GOP playbook.

[AlabamaLibrul]

4. Because it's un-American, dontchaknow. n/t

[Bonhomme Richard]

39. American electorate history is all about being against your own interest. n/t

[TZ]

5. Its not.

Who said that? The only reason I can think is cause its teh evil socialized medicine....

[LostinVA]

9. Gibbs -- and I don't mean Mark Harmon!

[TZ]

21. Did he say that SPECIFICALLY?

I have to ask because actually I find what Gibbs said to be an eerie echo of what is said about any centrist or blue dog dem every day here on DU...sell outs, crazy evil bush bots etc etc. This name calling goes both ways and its why the Dems WILL lose in 2012 because of our OWN parties intolerence FOR ANYONE who doesn't believe or vote EXACTLY the same way as they think. After seeing people on DU villify good liberals like Mikulski, Hoyer and Pelosi for this, NO ONE should be surprised that the WH is shooting its mouth off too.
And I don't take what Gibbs said personally. Its not an attack on me, its an attack on people who are making their political life AS DIFFICULT as the right....(I've even heard the left and the right use the same SLURS to describe the President)
In other words, I don't think anyone is wrong for believing differently from me, I do however object to BOTH sides calling names and treating everyone else like idiots. Amazing how similar the Dems behave to the Republicans....3-4 years ago the Republicans destroyed themselves by having intolerance of certain points of view in the party. And now the Dems are doing the same.

[LostinVA]

24. We will have to agree to disagree on thsi

Because I found it very snide, and I think he and the WH are backpedaling over the statement already.

[kiva]

29. If Obama runs and loses in 2012, it won't be

"because of our OWN parties intolerence FOR ANYONE who doesn't believe or vote EXACTLY the same way as they think", it will be because the administration has made active attempts to drive away progressives and GLBTers and women and teachers and union members. They lose = their own fault.

[TheWraith]

37. No, he didn't say that.

He mentioned it as one of several politically impractical things (others being the elimination of the DOD and President Kucinich) that still wouldn't satisfy the loudest voices on the left.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. And what, exactly, is politically impractical about the Canadian

healthcare system?

It obviously works just fine, or they wouldn't have kept it for the past 50 years. He propagandized in equating something his corporate masters dislike with something that IS politically, economically, militarily infeasible - the elimination of DOD.

So, since we know that the elimination of DOD is not only impractical but impossible, we are to believe that the Canadian healthcare system is equally impossible - nevermind the fact that it EXISTS, and therefore is eminently possible.

Suck up that koolaid.

[Posteritatis]

72. The koolaid line actually has some relevance

The US spent most of five decades training its populace to believe that anything too left of the status quo in the late 1940s - like, for instance, a widespread public health care system - was morally identical to harvesting Ukrainians' kidneys to fuel the forges at The People's Glorious Tractor Factory No. 52.

There's absolutely no practical reason the US couldn't implement such a system - you could certainly find the funding, the US health care system defaults to top-notch when people have easy access to it, and so on and so forth. However, a depressingly large chunk of the US that remembers the Cold War (and most people in the government are still deep in that and probably will be for awhile) have that automatic "butbutbutCOMMUNISM!" kneejerk reaction to it.

It's starting to spread in Canada as well, because the federal conservatives are explicitly modeling themselves on the Republicans for the last eight years or so. That's the source of no small amount of concern in some provinces - that there's occasionally serious talk of dismantling parts of our health care system because some Canadian citizens who'd had access to it all their life are suddenly being told that it's evil because Republican campaign managers hired on think it is.

To conservatives, libertarians, a good chunk of the centre and a really depressing chunk of the left, it's a phobia, and precisely as rational as most phobias tend to be.

[RainDog]

94. excellent post

this line is superb: public health care as "morally identical to harvesting Ukrainians' kidneys to fuel the forges at The People's Glorious Tractor Factory No. 52."

thank you.

you made it more than worthwhile to check into DU today.

[CanSocDem]

129. Yes indeed!!

All that need....All that product....being GIVEN away.

Venture Capitalist wet dream.


.

[Sheepshank]

125. a proven track record here at DU

twist the words, blurr the original intent, get huffy and get the base worked up into a negative (yet another Obama bashing) frenzy.

The process is pretty predictable.

I was hopeing that by now those who tend to jump on that particular bandwagon would recognize the m.o.

Apparently not.

[DirkGently]

126. Those would be strawman arguments. It's called

intellectual dishonesty. He was asked for his reaction to criticism from progressives, and immediately conflated all criticism with people comparing Obama to Bush, as though that's all progressive criticism has been, then managed to, with no apparent sense of irony, smear Canadian healthcare, unmindful perhaps that Obama campaigned heavily on a promise to give Americans access to lower-cost Canadian prescription drugs. Then he smeared Kucinich, a far better man than himself, and wrapped up with another ridiculous strawman about liberals wanting to eliminate the Pentagon. It was a Fox-News style attack, through and through.

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. Ha ha ha! You are SOOOO funny.

Oh, wait, you're SERIOUS?

[joeybee12]

62. You'd have a point if anyone in the administration sought any ideas, input or help

from the so-called left on any issue, but they haven't...they seem to think disparging some imaginary lockstep left will help their cause...high on their list is their utter contempt for GLBT, and I am sick to shit of that.

[gkhouston]

6. Because someone is too chickenshit to do the hard work to make it happen? n/t

[Pirate Smile]

7. It isn't an insult. It just can't get passed through even a Democratic Congress.

[Canuckistanian]

19. That's what I gathered from that statement

It wasn't a judgment on Canadian Health Care. Just that it wasn't realistic to expect it to pass Congress.

[Sebastian Doyle]

79. You mean a DLC congress?

A DEMOCRATIC congress would have passed it in a heartbeat.

[GreenPartyVoter]

95. +1000

[Starry Messenger]

8. It's unAmerican to keep money out of the pockets of corporations.

Now let's all sit down and eat this nice gruel.

[LostinVA]

11. I like steel-cut oatmeal -- does that count as gruel???

[Starry Messenger]

13. No, you're an Irish-loving commie for eating steel-cut.

You probably sing The Internationale between bites, too.

[LostinVA]

15. No, "The Wind That Shakes the Barley"

[Starry Messenger]

32. Even worse!

:cry: I'm calling HUAC.

[LostinVA]

33. I also look good in red

I'm a "Winter."

[phantom power]

10. I think that comment says a lot about Obama's admin.

Not that it hasn't already been pointed out many times, but comments like these are continuing evidence that they never wanted "medicare for all."

[LostinVA]

14. "comments like these are continuing evidence that they never wanted "medicare for all"

I 100% agree.

[BzaDem]

34. OBAMA CAMPAIGNED AGAINST single payer.

Is it really that much of a surprise that he didn't fight for a policy that wouldn't get 10 votes in the Senate, when he specificlly campaigned against single payer as "too extreme"?

[whathehell]

40. He also gave a speech in 2003 saying Single Payer was the best option. n/t

[BzaDem]

43. So what he says in 2003 overrides what he explicitly said in multiple times in 2008?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[whathehell]

67. Um...No, but

without an explanation for the "switch", it suggests a lack of principle -- if you know what that means:eyes:

[LostinVA]

42. Public Option... abortion... filling insurance coffers... mandate

uh huh... he didn't campaign on any of that. It was supposed to be a stepping stone.

[BzaDem]

44. Didn't you support a candidate in the primary who ran on and wholeheartedly embraced a mandate?

If I am confusing you with someone else, I apologize.

[LostinVA]

45. What do the Primaries have to do with anything?

Including what Gibbs said this morning?


Oh, that's right, NOTHING!!!

[BzaDem]

48. You are blaming Obama for "filling coffers" and supporting a mandate

so I think it is relevant (especially considering that Hillary was right when she said it was absolutely necessary to have a mandate). This is not a betrayal by Obama. It is a recognition of reality by Obama.

[LostinVA]

51. What do the Primaries have to do with what Mr. Gibbs said?

And what does it have to do with who is in the Oval Office?

:shrug:

Oh, that's right... NOTHING!

[BzaDem]

61. It has everything to do with your posts in this thread, whether you acknowledge it or not. n/t

[LostinVA]

64. What do the primaries have to do with what Mr. Gibbs said?

NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!

[TheKentuckian]

108. I supported the guy that scoffed at mandates. That really smart guy, what ever happened to him?

[Smashcut]

104. He also CAMPAIGNED AGAINST an individual mandate.

[Starry Messenger]

27. And that they aren't gong to "fix this later".

HCR is what they wanted and got.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Did the administriation ever advocate "medicare for all?"

[BzaDem]

35. He campaigned against it as "too extreme." So I don't know why this is surprising. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. The Professional Left is surprised to learn that Obama is not what Republicans say that he is

[elehhhhna]

103. "says a lot..." ? says it ALL, imo.

[Doctor_J]

12. To be fair, he didn't call that an insult

he said it's not reality.

Both are BS though.

[LostinVA]

18. It seemed at the very least rather snide

[dflprincess]

16. Because it means you are questioning the president

Good Americans never question the president. :sarcasm:

[GreenArrow]

17. Because it's a civilized approach

as opposed to the barbarity practiced here by cultic mammonites and devotees of Moloch.

[myrna minx]

20. Good question, hippie.

:D

[LostinVA]

26. Peace, man

[YOY]

22. and he lumped it in there with the elimination of the Pentagon.

Not decreasing unnecessary (and a SHITLOAD of it is truly that) military spending on global expansion into areas that we need not have bases in and projects in which we're light years ahead of the "competition" with whom we are not even in an arms race with, or even leaving the two quagmires (and I mean LEAVING everything but a few marines in the embassy)....no not that...

No. He said it like we want no Defense department at all.

Does ANYONE here actually want NO Defense Department at all? I have never heard of such tripe!

[LostinVA]

I wish we didn't need a Defense Department, but I know we have to

I don't know ANYONE who seriously wants to get rid of the Pentagon, just get us out of needless "invasions" and base-building, and sue some of that money here at home. Even pure Pacifists I know don't think that, and I'm talking about hardcore Quakers.

[YOY]

36. EXACTLY.

n/t

[The2ndWheel]

69. The US is basically the defense department for the developed world though

Which isn't fair to the US taxpayer(having to pay for a global military all by ourselves), but there's no global institution where the countries of the developed world would send a percentage of their populations to suit up. So, pretty much by default(by being the last 20th century center of power standing), the US military is the only stick that the developed world has right now. The UN has a few carrots it can throw out there, but who listens to the UN? The US is obviously above the UN, as the UN has never stopped the US government from doing anything it damn well pleases, anywhere it wishes to do so. The other developed countries aren't going their own way anymore. Whatever countries the UN can sanction, those sanctions end up hurting everyone but the people or institutions they're intended to hurt.

[Ignis]

90. Ridiculous in the extreme, innit?

It's like asking your asshole neighbors to turn their stereo volume from 500 down to 400, because it's starting to crack the plaster--and having them complain to a third party that you demanded they shut off the stereo completely.

:banghead:

"Inartful" only begins to describe your comment, Mr. Gibbs. :thumbsdown:

[YOY]

92. Excellent comparison T.

nt.

[Hydra]

105. I want a REAL Defense Department

Not a "Department of War and Colonization"

That's total heresy though. Hell, They hate it when I suggest keeping the National Guard home to deal with disasters here!

[Gormy Cuss]

107. They talk that way about liberals on Fox News.

That and the bizarre, undefined "professional left" reference made me wonder who's side he's on.

[YOY]

113. I think he's talking about those union boys I talked to in the primaries.

The ones who agreed to give the Democratic party one last chance to look out for the working man to earn a fair wage for fair work.

Those professionals.

[Catherina]

23. There's no corporate profit in it. It goes against holy capitalism n/t

[LaurenG]

25. It's not to me

if we had it then we could all get drug testing.

[LostinVA]

31. Free drug testing!!!

rofl

[alsame]

30. It's an insult to the insurance companies. We have to

feed that beast with our money.

[laughingliberal]

38. Red meat for their RW supporters? Wooing the teabaggers? Who knows how they choose their words? nt

[Vinca]

41. I'm seriously upset my parents didn't make me a Canadian anchor baby.

I could get the medical care I need now rather than waiting 4 years.

[LostinVA]

46. What's a Canadian anchor baby?

I may just chuck it all and move to Ireland or Germany in a few years, since I can.

[Vinca]

52. Republicans have their panties in a knot over American anchor babies -

undocumented people "dropping" (Lindsey Graham's wording, not mine) their baby in the U.S. so the child will be a citizen "anchor" baby. I want to be a Canadian anchor baby.

[LostinVA]

56. How have I missed that term?!

It makes me think of the movie "Anchorman," and Will Ferrell as a little baby.

[Enrique]

47. "it's not reality"

Canada is an imaginary place.

[LostinVA]

54. I love the imaginary city of Victoria

[blogslut]

50. I love Gibby

But I think he needs a vacay.

He's stuck in offense mode and it's become detrimental to his employer.

[LostinVA]

53. A mental health day, as we call it

[VMI Dem]

57. Gibbs is a dumb fucker.

Who the hell would keep such an idiot around?

[Starry Messenger]

59. Someone who agrees with him. n/t

[LostinVA]

65. +1

[SOS]

58. The corrupt lackeys in the US Senate get paid to vote against it

The vicious insurance profiteers control this issue.
Therefore if you advocate for a civilized system, as in every other industrialized nation on earth, you are a communist who needs drug testing.

We just got an $812 bill for a an ambulance ride.
Can't pay. Will end up getting sued.

I hate this f#cking system.

[LostinVA]

66. "The vicious insurance profiteers control this issue"

Truth.

[Kalyke]

63. When I read what Gibbs said, I thought the same thing.

It's not an insult to me.

I think the problem is that he meant it as one.

[LostinVA]

70. "I think the problem is that he meant it as one"

That was exactly my take on it, he meant it as an insult, even though it isn't. A very :wtf: moment.

[whathehell]

74. Bingo! n/t

[Blue_Tires]

68. because in this country corporations come first above all...

we should be grateful they allow us to live here and work for them :sarcasm:

[RainDog]

71. because good govt. makes the corporate baby jesus cry

when EVERY OTHER western democracy has a viable, affordable, accessible health care system that doesn't let insurance or pharma cos bankrupt people because of medical procedures, when EVERY OTHER WESTERN DEMOCRACY makes preventative care affordable and encourages its citizens to use these services...

they show the people of the U.S. what TOTAL FAILURES the political class is in this nation on the most important issues for families - right wing family values don't include actually giving a fuck about families.

and when every other western democracy demonstrates this truth to any American who cares to know... this makes the corporate baby jesus cry - cause we see the hand in the cookie jar.

[anarch]

73. b/c this is the U.S. of A. dammit and we're proud to funnel all our money to insurance companies

And besides we have the greatest health-care delivery system in the entire universe, where nobody ever has to wait to see a doctor (if they are rich enough) and we certainly don't have bureacrats telling us we can't have an operation or something (b/c here in the U.S. we prefer to have our insurance companies tell us that). USA! USA! USA!


I mean, if everyone has access to health care, what will there be to motivate people to succeed in life?

[Warren Stupidity]

75. USA USA USA

dead last among indsutrial democracies with respect to health care costs vs outcomes!
one of the most corrupt industrial democracies!

[Furiousliberal]

76. Nothing

I live in Sweden and that mean that I got great health care and don't understand why not all industrialized countries got "Canadian-style" health care.

[LostinVA]

85. +1

[Javaman]

77. People are afraid the we will suddenly start pronouncing boot and boat similarly. nt

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

78. I want Canadian style healthcare and I want a politician who will run on its merits

and not just tell us we can't talk about it and that it doesn't have a place at the table because we are uniquely American and moronic about this issue.

The Physicians for Nation Health and the California Nurses Associations are still fighting the battle and so am I. Ask yourself - why are premiums STILL going through the roof? Whay are people STILL losing coverage everyday? Why are people STILL going bankrupt due to out-of pockets?

Healthcare reform did nothing major to reduce costs so we will be revisiting this issue sooner rather than later.

[RainDog]

80. fucking-a n/t

[supernova]

81. Likes this! ^^

I wish a public person had the guts to run on this platform.

[BzaDem]

82. There are politicans who run in every election on its merits.

The problem for that policy is that said politicans rarely get more than a low single digit percentage of the vote in the primary.

[LostinVA]

120. Then it should be a plank in the dem platform n/t

[Starry Messenger]

87. +1000

[sixstrings75]

83. See this. All I have to say on the matter.

Wise up my neighbors to the south...you have no idea what you are missing...

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5736222

[LostinVA]

88. I remember this OP

[asdjrocky]

84. It's only an insult to rw lunitics like Gibbs. nt

[supernova]

86. IMO, it's an ugly application of American Exceptionalism

We're No. 1!

If we are then, by default no one else can ever do anything better. By extension, importing an idea even from our wonderful northern neighbors, as much as we love 'em, will be inherently inferior.

[Uncle Joe]

89. Because it hurts the feelings of those professional gamblers, aka; for profit "health" insurance

corporations that profit from the illness and death of the American People.

Thanks for the thread, LostinVA.

[CreekDog]

91. I think most people here wanted a Canadian style system

I did DU poll on it and almost nobody voted against "single-payer".

[Stinky The Clown]

93. Because it is out of step with the current orthodoxy

Other than that, nothing.

Why do you hate America?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

96. Because we are all supposed to be good sensible groundhogs and bow down to the corporations that

our politicians are beholden to.

[earth mom]

97. Because we're supposed to be brain washed that it's awful.

Funny how some of us can actually think for ourselves and don't listen to or believe their Orwellian bullshit.

[philly_bob]

98. Because it's a frequently-repeated right-wing talking point. (nt)

[ecstatic]

99. It's not an insult, just not possible right now

duh

[grahamhgreen]

101. Bull. Next you'll say it's not possible to elect a black man President.

[JBoy]

100. Having Canadian-style healthcare requires a culture of abundance rather than scarcity

[elehhhhna]

102. because being humane is for junkie retards. didn't you get the memo?

[AsahinaKimi]

106. Canada is the last place Gibbs should knock

They are our good neighbors to the north. I have many, many friends there. Some people on this Website have family living there, or live there themselves. As for the Teabaggers, I am sure they would want to build a wall around the entire nation..but they are not us.

[Kalun D]

109. Because

It's not the CORPORATIONS best interests.

[TheKentuckian]

110. It isn't, the corporate lackeys must pretend such

[BlueCheese]

111. Trying to be charitable...

... one might say that he wasn't insulting Canadian health care, just saying it is a good thing that can't be achieved politically. (Of course you never know if you don't try, right?)

Unfortunately, Gibbs lumped that right in with getting rid of the Pentagon, which almost nobody advocates. That's more something that naive people might think is good but really isn't. Is that what he thinks of Canadian health care? Who knows anymore?

[LostinVA]

114. Yeah, the linking with getting rid of the Pentagon was weird

But telling that i guess he links the two in his brain somehow as "fringe."

[LooseWilly]

112. Xenophobia. Plain and simple.

Americans have been taught to fear all things foreign. Canadian pharmaceuticals, Western European Socialism, Eastern European Communiism, South Asian Kama Sutra-ism, Mexican water (ok, that one is a little scary), Mexican police (as if they're worse than US police)... and Canadian health care.

I guess, since the US is usually looking to destabilize a country when it "offers" something... (Contras, the Shah, Samoza, etc.), it's only natural to assume the same of the rest of the world... and be afraid. Naturally, that means that Canadian-style health care is just the next step of the Canadian invasion predicted in the South Park Movie... a natural follow-up to the Canadian bacon that has now firmly entrenched itself as a staple of the "Egg Benedict"... an obvious first step in the subversion of the country... to be followed soon by a program to flouridate the water, no doubt.

[depakid]

115. We here in Australia have a robust public option- and most would still prefer Canadian style care

We don't get it because of the likes of those who sit in the White House deriding it- though they tend to be on the other side of the aisle.

Interestingly enough though- the other side of the aisle is more progressive than this administration is- or ever hearkened to be on a whole lot of issues.

And that was an impressive thing to figure out.

[LostinVA]

118. "the other side of the aisle is more progressive than this administration is"

Whoa.

[depakid]

121. Whoa is right- imagine Republicans trying to outdo Democrats with more generous family leave

:crazy:

[LostinVA]

123. My head almost just exploded

[NorthCarolina]

116. It isn't an insult to a normal individual with a bone of compassion

But for DLC New Dem and GOP corporatists, they view it as howlingly funny insult to Liberals. It is a very good example of why the conservatives are unable to develop a comedy show to counter the likes of the Daily Show or Colbert Report.

[LostinVA]

117. VERY interesting point about TDS and Colbert n/t

[TBF]

122. Because that would interfere with the profits of the insurance companies -

now why the hell Obama cares about the profits of the insurance companies is the real question.

[indepat]

124. It is an insult of the intelligence of every red-blooded American for anyone to suggest a portion of

the wealth created in this nation should be alloted to the national well-being, the public interest, the general welfare, such as some form of universal health-care. Every American by now surely knows, how could they not know considering what the media blares out incessantly, that wealth accumulation in this country is and will continue to be apportioned among a relatively few privileged individuals and that the Federal government will aid and abet by doing every thing in its power to assure this eventuality. :P

[Jamastiene]

127. I think they are pointing out how impossible it is to have Canadian-style health care...

Apparently, Canadian-style health care is impossible. It's not like Canada has Canadian-style health care or anything, because it is
impossible, see?

It is impossible. Therefore, we want the impossible...or something like that.

Er...I think. :evilfrown:

[Sea Witch]

130. I want it

And I don't think that makes me crazy.