Anybody else think that Gibbs' comments included an inappropriate slam against Kucinich?

[kath]

Re-reading some of the threads on Gibbs's comments just now, this line jumped out at me: "They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare and we've eliminated the Pentagon. That's not reality," he added. "They wouldn't be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president."

There have been lots of comments today about the Canadian healthcare stuff and the Pentagon. But it strikes me that the Kucinich comment essentially goes along with the M$M characterization of DK as a loony fringe type and was inappropriate. Do the Repugs diss Representatives or Senators FROM THEIR OWN PARTY like this??

Obama and other "Democrats" supported Lieberman over the Democratic nominee, fer Chrissakes.

And Gawd-frikkin'-dammit, Dennis Kucinich cares about the poor and the average working American about 10 billion times more than the #^@!*&!s in this current White House. :mad: :grr:

(Certainly not the most eloquent OP in the world, but it's late and I'm heading off to bed and am too tired to take the time to do better at this point.)

[niyad]

1. the whole diatribe was unnecessary, including the slam at kucinich.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

14. I have come to the conclusion that Robert Gibbs is unnecessary

as a Press Secretary.

[Ken Burch]

25. Other than Bill Moyers, you don't get great minds in that position.

n/t.

[FrenchieCat]

2. Yes.......it was horrible!

But I think that Obama cares about the poor too, and the average working Americans...and I don't think that Kucinich cares 10 billion times more.

In fact, last I checked, Obama was caring about 20 billions more just this week.

[kath]

8. Well, I don't think that Kucinich loves the corporations nearly as much as this White House does --

they're sure spending an awful lot of effort kissing up to them (and to the Repugs), meeting w/ them behind closed doors, etc.

[Shining Jack]

17. +1

I totally agree.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Kucinich is the Representative of one little place......

the fact that you think comparing his actions to those of the President makes any sense,
is half of the problem with your "theory"....cause that's all it is.

[NorthCarolina]

35. It's the message that Kucinich brings to the public discussion that

scares the DLC the most. Marginalize and discredit the messenger, downplay the message without having to take a public stand against that populist message.

[unapatriciated]

58. Is that why gibbs thought it was ok to use him in pandering to the right?

[QC]

33. +2

[npk]

3. I would say so

He was basically saying that Kucinich was unelectable and " you people" wouldn't be satisfied even if he had been somehow miraculously elected. In Gibbs eyes the presidency must be governed from somewhere very close to the middle and if not it only opens the door to trouble. At least that is my take on it.

[LoZoccolo]

4. No, he's just an example of a very liberal Democrat who they say they want as president.

But just like Obama, he'll have to deal with congress, and these people won't appreciate that.

[depakid]

5. Kuchinich is the straw man that they always use...

when they know that their policies are wrong- or will end up being seen as failures.

[JI7]

6. it wasn't a slam against Kucinich , he mentioned Kucinich as an example of someone very liberal

and how the people he is referring to are the type that would even be upset if someone as liberal as Kucinich was President.

[snot]

7. YES.

[BDavinciNY]

9. I don't think it was a slam on Kucinich

What Gibbs said IMO was not a slam on DK. Gibbs point was that some liberals can be too unrealistic in their ideals and don't face the reality of the situation. They cannot take a pragmatic approach about it. Is the Mainstream medias assessment that Kucinich is a "loon" is totally made up. Of course not, they have to make him that way because they don't like his politics unlike some of the real loons on the right.

[niyad]

26. welcome to DU

[BDavinciNY]

45. Thanks

Thanks Niyad

[DFLforever]

10. No.

[Jamastiene]

11. Yes, I noticed it too.

It is part of what pissed me off.

[Desertrose]

13. Yeah, same here....pissed me off too.

And actually, I would be satisfied if Kucinich were president...unless he sucked up to corporations like the current administration does. Then, probably not so much.

[Hydra]

12. Yes, but it was basically a slam against all of us

He was simply included so we were all sure beyond a doubt who he was talking to.

He basically said what we all believe in and want to fight for is never going to happen. That the basic Democratic platform was the realm of the hazy minded druggie.

Reality is when we kill people for profit and let corporations run wild. That is the new "good," and we are the people out of touch.

Nice, huh?

[unapatriciated]

60. Yes, he wanted to be sure we heard him loud and clear.

[LooseWilly]

15. Appropriateness is relative.

Kucinich, especially after his admission of seeing a UFO at a debate in '08 (which, being simply an unidentified flying object, is really not as nuts as many would like to make it out to be), is now stereotyped as the "moonbat" that Jerry Brown was once coined as being. His policy stances perfectly equate to the "stereotypical" liberal/hippy policy positions... and so he is easily dismissed by all who have "grown up".

The Republicans may've had little success running against the FDR/labor Democratic positions... but once they had Civil Rights and Hippies to run against... they started getting somewhere. Kucinich, with his policy positions that even a hippy could get behind, is an easy target for any right-wing critic— The fact that a Democratic WH press secretary would jump on that band wagon... well, dots should be easy enough to connect.

Appropriate? Again, depends on the audience the WH means to woo. Since the WH hasn't said word one of criticism... it can only be presumed that the audience they mean to woo has just been "announced". If it isn't you... well, expect to have some shit flung in your direction too, if it might please the "woo-worthy".

[PBS Poll-435]

16. Kucinich had to be "lobbied" to vote for the health care bills.

Majority of the party was behind it, but alas he needed special attention.

:banghead:

[kath]

18. Because the bills weren't health CARE reform -we ended up with a Health Insurance Co. Protection Act

[PBS Poll-435]

19. But he still voted for it,

So what was your point again?

:shrug:

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. Do you think he voted for it on PRINCIPLE, or did he go along to get along?? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

24. Somewhere in the middle of the two.

Most likely to give the President a legislative victory.

[ElectricLightDem]

40. Personally...

I think he voted on principle. I believe he saw the reality of the situation. He knew that to pass the bill, it wasn't going to precisely what he thought the bill should be. He also believes that the HCR bill has the potential to be the first step toward achieving 'optimization.' So, gasp!, he compromised.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that a Kucinich administration would be confused with the Obama administration. Dennis would, at least, play some hard ball and use some of the same tactics that shrub did in an attempt to get some of his policies passed. Boy Howdy! If you think the political discourse in this country is raucous and fractious now (and it is), just imagine what it would be like if Kucinich was president!!!

[John Q. Citizen]

72. You should really read what Kucinich wrote about his decision to vote for the bill.

It's eloquent and it's clear and concise.

He clearly states that he's voting for a shitty bill, a really bad bill, because the alternative to passing a shitty bill was worse.

I bet you could find it at his website.


Kucinich is an amazing politician. He was the sole Democratic gain in 1994 in the House, the only seat that flipped from Repo to Dem, with some reapportionment help to be sure.


Kucinich has won more elections than Obama, Hillary, and bush II combined. Maybe he's just lucky?

[eridani]

27. But Obama couldn't be bothered to lobby the likes of LIebermann for a public option

--that 80% of the public wanted and the "majority of the party" was too damned gutless and cowardly to provide.

[PBS Poll-435]

31. You and I know that the votes were not there

It took everything Reid had to get even a scaled-back bill passed.

[eridani]

49. Kucinich's vote "wasn't there" until his arm was twisted

That doesn't work with the corporate whore faction of our party?

[PBS Poll-435]

51. Problem was the Senate. Kucinich is a Rep. in the House

Kucinich, IMHO, was always going to vote for it.


He just needed a little "me me me" time.

[eridani]

54. No, he wasn't. He didn't the first time. Not sure what he got threatened with

The final argument that he used for his vote was not that the legislation was a great idea, but the Dems ability to govern would be negatively affected if it didn't pass. Some reccomendation.

Since when does arm-twisting only work in the House?

[PBS Poll-435]

55. In the end, after all of the talk, he voted for the final bill

And with the filibuster, you would have needed to arm-twist Nelson-NE, Landrieu-LA, Lincoln-AR, Pryor-AR, Begich-AK, Bayh-IN and many others to get to 60.

The votes were never there and were not attainable for a PO. I don't know why after all this time that this is even a question.

[eridani]

59. That is pure crap. If Obama had been hands on with the public option from the start

--or better yet threatened single payer as the alternative to it, things would have been different. Trying and failing is no sin--feeding the perception that you are a corporate whore who doesn't care is a sin.

[PBS Poll-435]

61. Disagree entirely. There are a handful of Democrats in the Senate that NEVER would have

Voted for Gubmint healthcare.

Ignorance of this simple reality is probably why so many panties are twisted by Gibbs' comments.

[eridani]

62. Not even if their disctricts were threatened with being screwn legislatively? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

63. US Senators do not have districts. They represent States.

In the 2008 election, Obama did poorly in Arkansas and Louisiana. And Nelson-NE is always a POS.

[eridani]

64. Bush did his very best to screw states that voted against him

How come Obama can't?

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Are there more or less Democrats in the Senate (from the South) now than there were in 1992?

:shrug:

[NorthCarolina]

36. Why would Obama lobby for a PO when he never wanted a PO?

The DLC spouts populist rhetoric as long as they know full well it will never happen. It's all a game, and unfortunately far too many voters repeatedly fall for it.

[kath]

52. EXACTLY - he never wanted one.

Didn't use the bully pulpit AT ALL to convince people that it was necessary.

[Cherchez la Femme]

42. Health Insurance Industry Executives Make Millions As

Health Insurance Industry Executives Make Millions As Firms Plan Big Rate Hikes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/11/health-insurance-industry_n_678289.html


You were saying?

[PBS Poll-435]

53. Again

Rep. Kucinich would have voted for a turd sandwich.

But before he did, he needed a little lovin'.

[Radical Activist]

20. I didn't read it that way.

I thinks it a compliment that Kucinich was mentioned/recognized as a prominent leader of the left. Obama has shown more respect reaching out to Kucinich on numerous occasions than several other party leaders I could name.

I also think it's a realistic assessment. Kucinich would have had the same Congress Obama has. The people blaming Obama for the conservative Senate would be just as unhappy with Dennis.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Straight Up - Yes. N/T

[sandnsea]

23. I just said that yesterday, I'm prescient

:rofl:

People here wouldn't be happy if Kucinich were President because NOTHING would get done, or Kucinich would have to compromise just like he did on health care and everything else he voted for this year.

[TheKentuckian]

29. Hey, everybody loves to punch hippies, am I right? C' mon...right

[lillypaddle]

30. I think he was slammin'

mom & apple pie.:mad: :evilgrin:

[liquid diamond]

32. It was a slam against Kucinich's followers.

Even if their hero were president, they would throw him under the bus immediately. Hell, the fringe wouldn't even let Obama get sworn in as president before they started complaining.

[Stinky The Clown]

34. Let me start to answer by saying that I am in the "I love Dennis .... but" camp.

The remark was aimed not so much at him but at people who agree with his thinking. Gibbs reduced Kucinich to a s=verbal shorthand for every liberal out there who holds even remotely the same views as Dennis.

[KoKo]

37. So attacking one of your own party who is running for re-election is appropriate?

Why bring up Kucinich unless you want to tar him with RW Smear of "Liberal/Socialist." Gibbs didn't say Socialist but it doesn't take much for folks to get he was smearing the left and Kucinich with what Beck and Limbaugh like to call "Socialists" who run our Government and want to install their policies.

:shrug: That's the way I interpreted it.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. Please don't misinterpret me. I am in no way defending Gibbs

I just don't think he cares about Dennis one way or another and was simply using him as ill advised shorthand.

If I were Dennis I would be righteously pissed at the White house and I would be speaking out. Were he to do that, i would be cheering for him.

[xiamiam]

70. surprising that you have a but in re to dk..he speaks for me

so does grayson..and sam farr who actually represents me and always truly does that

as well as represent this liberal geographic area which gibbs discounted..

and he did take a swipe at kucinich ...a wierd swipe but there was something smarmy about it

kucinich read articles of impeachment against dick cheney..and george bush probably although i dont remember..hes got courage and commitment..

i think its ok that kucinich saw a ufo..i have too...and so have a lot of other people.. anyone who thinks we are alone in the universe has an indefensible argument

i'm all in for grayson whenever and whatever he decides to do including 2012..would be interesting to say the least

[guardian]

38. I can't figure out why Gibbs made the statement.

Makes no sense.

[Individualist]

44. DLC has always attacked progressives.

Kucinich is one of their favorite targets.

[Cherchez la Femme]

41. Sure did

Way to show appreciation for not only the Health Insurance Reform vote but what Kucinich did for Obama in Iowa.

:thumbsup: --NOT!

[LWolf]

43. If Dennis is as irrelevant as the status quo pretends,

why would he suddenly be referenced in a rant about the "professional left?"

His response:

In the initial interview, Gibbs also talked about criticism from Democrats that President Obama had compromised his values on issues like health care and war. "They wouldn't be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president," Gibbs said.

The very liberal representative from Ohio spoke to Fox News Radio and said of the comments, "From a political perspective it wasn't very smart." He didn't call for his resignation and didn't seem offended but noted, "It's important for the President's spokesperson to understand that his remarks are taken quite seriously and when he speaks I would hope that he speaks with the purpose of unifying."
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/11/gibbs-still-under-fire-left-lashing-more-clarification-expected#ixzz0wJhy00Ou

[flyarm]

46. YES! without a question! eom

[Whisp]

47. that wasn't a slam against Kucinich

it was a slam against the political climate in the US. the US is falling behind other civilised countries in health care and education, jsut for two big examples.

There is simply no way Kucinich could have won Presidency plus there is double no way he could have miraculously served the 'progessive left' all they ordered off the menu.

[Raineyb]

48. It did. See what cooperating with this White House gets you? If you're a right winger

the hand is held out. If you're on the left wing you get the back of their hand. Funny, when I voted I expected the right wing to get the back of this administration's hand. Odd how that turned out.

[laureloak]

50. "Even electing a peacenik like Kucinich wouldn't satisfy some.

Some would only be happy when the Pentagon was closed and our healthcare was the same as Canada." (In other words)

What in the hell is wrong with you people that you can't accept when things don't go entirely your way? There are other people in the US to please besides YOU! Give and take...negotiate...that's the way to get things done.

[jgraz]

56. THe White House is clearly butthurt over left-leaning criticism

Good. Time to turn it up.

[unapatriciated]

57. Gibbs has a strange way of showing respect.

I guess you are respected when they need your support and votes but have no problem using you to pander to the right.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/Oba...

Senator Obama thanked Congressman Dennis Kucinich for encouraging his supporters to caucus for Obama as their second choice in the Iowa caucuses. Obama noted that he and Kucinich both opposed the war in Iraq before it started and are committed to reclaiming the American Dream on behalf of families across the country......

"I have a lot of respect for Congressman Kucinich, and I’m honored that he has done this because we both believe deeply in the need for fundamental change,” said Senator Obama. “He and I have been fighting for a number of the same priorities -- including an end to the war in Iraq that we both opposed from the start, reforming Washington and creating a better life for America's working families. I encourage all Iowans to take part in the caucuses this Thursday – not because it will be good for any one candidate, but because it will be good for our party and the future of our country."

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Worse it was a slam at Dennis's supporters

currently working to re-elect him in a few short weeks. He used Dennis as fodder to slam others with, because it would sting more with Kucinich written on it.
It was not acceptable election time verbiage from the White House at all.

[fogonthelake]

67. I think it was demeaning.

[phleshdef]

68. No, unless you consider calling Kucinich the most liberal of the liberal a slam.

Which is exactly all that was implied by the statement, nothing more, nothing less.

[Stuart G]

69. Yes it is.

[Schema Thing]

71. No. But his point is well taken.

They truly "wouldn't be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president."

[kath]

73. Interesting to see that a writer at The Nation also thought the Kucinich crack was out of line:

"Gibbs hit with the left with what he apparently thought was his best shot: "They wouldn’t be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president."

Gibbs seemed to be dismissing Kucinich, the anti-war congressman, veteran economic populist and two-time contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, as an example of the extremity within the Democratic camp."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129125087