Interesting point I'd never heard before: The Salem Hypothesis

[Fumesucker]

I think this is just as true with politics as it is with creationism, scratch a wingnut with a "science degree" and he's likely to be an engineer.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/the_salem_hypothesis.php

he Salem hypothesis is an old chestnut from talk.origins. It was proposed by a fellow named Bruce Salem who noticed that, in arguments with creationists, if the fellow on the other side claimed to have personal scientific authority, it almost always turned out to be because he had an engineering degree. The hypothesis predicted situations astonishingly well—in the bubbling ferment of talk.origins, there were always new creationists popping up, pompously declaiming that they were scientists and they knew that evolution was false, and subsequent discussion would reveal that yes, indeed, they were the proud recipient of an engineering degree.

Stating the Salem hypothesis was also a good way of stirring the pot, because there are always engineers around who have not succumbed to creationist nonsense, and they'd get all huffy and denounce the very idea. Of course, it doesn't say that engineers are all creationists: it says that creationists with advanced degrees are often engineers, a completely different thing altogether.

Here's an excellent example of the Salem hypothesis in the form of letters to the Electronic Engineering Times. Engineers, your honor is safe: for every foolish declaration that organisms are examples of design, there are a couple of sharply worded smackdowns.

[Warpy]

1. Great point in one of the comments

"Engineers don't observe natural things; they design artificial things. When they observe things at all, it is to try to reverse engineer something designed by someone else." Jonathan Badger

I suppose that's why they find it so easy to accept the idea of the big invisible engineer in the sky.

[Gaedel]

2. I am an engineer

In all of the math, science, and engineering courses that I ever took, I cannot recall having to come to a decision one way or the other on intelligent design versus Darwinian evolution.

I can't recall anytime in the fifty years since I finished college that I needed the answer one way or the other for my daily work.

I guess I just leave it up to the guy who majored in Philosophy to cogitate on the problem during his leisure time between taking orders at the McDonald's drive-through.

[postulater]

4. That's what we tell our daughter who is an engineering student.

:rofl:

[Fumesucker]

5. So you have no opinion on evolution vs intelligent design?

Just looking at the human back seems to argue against intelligent design.

[patrice]

3. You are f-ing brilliant; I mean it!

no flattery intended

[enough]

9. This is an idiotic version what what engineers do and think about. In many spheres,

engineers are the last people left who are still thinking about the real actual "natural" physical world.

I say this as a "humanities" person who happens to know quite a number of engineers.

[Warpy]

10. I'm the daughter of two engineers and the granddaughter of one

and I attended engineering school long enough to know what the mindset is and that it wasn't a particularly good fit.

I would suggest my background is a bit superior when it comes to recognizing that mindset and its inherent limitations.

I know what engineers do and I know how they do it. I have a great admiration for what they can accomplish when they're not trying to make things as cheaply as possible, something that happens far too often to too many of them in the corporate environment.

I also know the mindset and the post I quoted was a pretty good if overly simplified description.

[enough]

11. Oh warpy, this makes me sad. Have we come to "my background is a bit superior?'

No I will not get into a litany of my relatives, male and female, among my parents parents and my children, etc. etc., various generations, who are engineers and scientists. All I can say is I've have a fondness for the way the engineers in my life approach and engage the physical world, all the time. I can count on them.

[pitohui]

6. it's because if you're a real scientist you can't get a job w. a stupid belief

believing in fantasy and superstition doesn't interfere w. building a bridge

believing in fantasy and superstition very much interferes w. interpreting the fossil record

i got nothing aga. engineers, some of my nearest and dearest are engineers, but being an engineer aint fucking rocket science

[ThomWV]

7. The only born-again deep-creationist I know has a Chem-E masters. Hmmmmm.

[eridani]

8. Odd paradox for engineers who are also theists

Believing in creationism is an explicit statement that God is a really crappy engineer. The basic presumption of creationism is that God is simultaneously intelligent enough to invent the operating system of the universe and too stupid to get it right the first time. They'd all get their asses fired for designing products that needed that much ongoing intervention.