Justifying the "N" word

[SHRED]

I have heard many people claim the Dr. Laura defense when it comes to the N word.
That "they call themselves that so why can't we use the word".
What is so funny is that very "defense" is in itself racist.
It assumes the African-American population, as a whole, has embraced the N word and uses it all the time.
It assumes that the majority of blacks are gang-bangers and thugs.
It assumes people of color are not upset about the use of this obscenity.
It assumes the worst about a whole race.

I thought of this yesterday while listening to Mark Thompson on "Make it Plain".
I was hoping he would use this in response to Dr. Laura but him and his callers used the less affective, "because you are not black" angle.

Why is my thought on this not used more to beat down the racists among us?
I don't hear it.
:shrug:

[Richardo]

1. Excellent excellent points

:thumbsup:

[dipsydoodle]

2. The actual problem

arises from giving words meanings beyond their original use which in this case was originally spelt with one n only being purely descriptive of those from Niger.

To verify that you simply need an English copy of the Complete Oxford Dictionary with the c.late 1700's reference for the word spelt with two g's. No - I won't scan my own copy which is too big and heavy for the scanner.

And no - I wouldn't use that word anyway not even for Traditional songs where the exemption for its use exists.

[Kind of Blue]

14. I'll take it step further. The word was originally spelled

NGR, pronounced NetJer or some say EnJer meaning God or Divine (early Egyptian, also denoting Pharoah), so not necessarily those from Niger and existing before the Romans but used by them to identify people of African origins (General Pescennius Niger born in Libya). Lots of African words of high import begin with N, from the Zulus to Ngolans(meaning King) to West Africans. Ni'le is another that comes to mind and Niger River in West Africa, both signifying life.

So to me, unconsciously African-Americans are taking the word back from its derogatory meaning to the original.

[Gaedel]

17. No, it has an English derivation

The Spanish described Africans as "negro" which is literally "black".

The first reference in English was when the Spanish ambassador in London exhibited his African slave. The account in one diary Anglicized "negro" to "negar". Many Spanish words ending in "ro" were Anglicized to "or", "ar", or "er" endings.

[Kind of Blue]

21. Well, that's all fine and good, but I'd go even further

to say negro is a derivation of NGR (meaning God, Divine, Great), as stated previously became Niger way before the Spanish and English. I'm saying just because Europeans took a great Afroasiatic root word and sullied it, does not make it the correct or original meaning of the word.

Niger means Great River or King River, not black river. Nigeria is the feminine meaning Queen, not land of the blacks.

[whopis01]

15. You are correct (except I think you meant 'one g only' not 'one n only')

But I am convinced that no matter what word people of African descent use to describe themselves - eventually some racist idiots are going to turn it into a derogatory slur. This is why there have been so many terms that go out of fashion over the years - negro, colored, black, african-american, etc... For some people it doesn't really matter what the word is - as long as it refers to a dark skinned person it will become something derogatory.

[dipsydoodle]

16. Thanks for the correction

Yes - g. Up until the '60s/early '70s the n word was still in use here for dark suede, shoe polishes and paint too I think. Just decriptive of dark brown with no malice aforethought. If the word spade has been used instead then that would've been malicious / derogatory.

btw - use of black here remains to distinguish from Asian which in the UK refers to Indian sub Continent only : not the rest of Asia.

[d_r]

3. yep.

good points. It is assuming that a group is more homogeneous than it is.

[slampoet]

4. It also assumes that white and black people are treated equally in all other areas of life

Which we all know sure as fuck isn't true.

[political_Dem]

5. You hit the nail on the head.

I always hold out hope that there are a few folks in society who will listen and learn from this situation in order to treat all walks of life with more respect.

[Poboy]

6. Hear that 'defense' all the time here too.

I agree fully with your critique of that 'defense', but I also approach that with additional thinking.
The word was used not so long ago exclusively by white people to insult, verbally abuse, and demean. Over time it was pretty much recognized that insulting people with this word was wrong socially. Some whites however continued its use.
Some black people in turn started to use it to take 'ownership' or to highlight the ugliness that racists treated them with.

Now, because some black people use it in that new way, the racist whites want to go back to using it in its original intent, using the cover of the black people's usage.

In short, white people in general have no social right to use it, as they have shown themselves unable to not abuse people with it.
A white persons use of the word is abusive and inherently racist.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. The use of the word was never exclusively by whites

That said, its use by black people perpetuates it. For it to go away, everyone needs tp stop using it.

[Dappleganger]

18. But as a white woman

I have no bearing to tell them to stop. The word sends chills up my spine as it brings back the disgusting pangs of racist talk which spewed from my father while growing up, so there's absolutely no room for it in my home.

For the life of me I don't know why the FCC isn't all over this "Dr." Laura's case and fining her into oblivion. It sounds like she did this all in order to get more ratings and notoriety (and has probably succeeded).

[Glassunion]

7. Everyone should be able to use the word.

There should be absolutely nothing stopping anyone from using the word.

I hate the idea of what we are calling "Hate Speech". Read Orwell's 1984 and keep your eyes open for terms such as "Thoughtcrime" and "Newspeak".

All speech in this country should be protected with of course the exceptions for enciting a riot, yelling fire in the crowded place, etc...

Yes the word upsets me. No, I do not like being called that word. Yet I will defend someone's right to use it.

In the case of Dr. Laura or others like her. Here is the way that I look at it.
If you don't like what she is saying, don't listen.

If you don't listen, ratings go down. Ratings go down, show gets canceled. Enough shows get canceled, people stop saying things that piss people off. You cannot MAKE people change their behavior or their own mind. But if they do it themselves, the attitude changes, they want to be more sensitive. Thus the culture changes.

You cannot force a culture change. The change has to want to happen.

[SHRED]

8. Except radio talk is not really subject to ratings

Ratings play only a small part on whether a show remains on the air in this age of "Wall Mart-ization" of the airwaves.
If Clear Channel wants you on then you are on.
If they want you off then you are off.

No "free market" in the mainstream electric media.

[Glassunion]

13. I would disagree about the ratings.

Radio in the past 5 to 10 years has been taking a beating. They are losing money in quite a few large markets and in syndication. Just look at the NY market. 10 years ago you had Howard Stern, Imus, Opie and Anthony, etc... All of these shows were syndicated in other large markets as well. The ratings went away, and so did the shows. There were several radio stations that topped the market, pulling in millions in advertising dollars. When the ratings dropped, the shows were dropped.

Again, at the end of the day, if you don't like it. Don't listen.

[Poboy]

9. Oh, I'd agree, and would never want to make a law

or regulate the speech, but if I hear someone white use it, I am thinking RACIST to myself, and sometimes will call it out.

Go ahead, use it, you are free to do so, but this is how I, as a person, am going to react.

[pipoman]

19. That is how you are going to react if Glassunion uses the word?

Even if Glassunion happens to be African American?

[Steely_Dan]

10. I've heard blacks...

...refer to each other using the N word. My take is that by using the word amongst themselves, they are disarming the word. It is not unlike when gay people starting referring to each other a queer. As in "We're queer, we're here, get used to it." By using the word almost in passing as a term of endearment, making it a part of any daily dialogue, they are able to slowly dilute the negative aspects of it. Or am I reaching. It's pretty typical of the evolution of language.

Personally, I wish no one would use the word, regardless of race. Because of my age and upbringing, I will never see the word other than in its negative aspects.

-PLA

[Poboy]

11. This is what I was trying to say. -nt

[pipoman]

20. It is simple

racial slurs simply aren't in my vocabulary. I have been called every kind of name and slur by every nationality and ethnicity. I don't find it particularly upsetting.

I believe that the indiscriminate use of this word by some black entertainers is particularly damaging to the effort to wash the word from the lips of non-blacks. Like it or not, use by musicians in particular results in people repeating those words when singing along, which results in spaced repetition of use of the word, which makes the word more likely to be used outside of the sing-along. I have yet to find these black artists request that whites not purchase their product...not that it would do any good. I do believe more of the black community are vocally in opposition to the use by these artists who are the most visible users of it. When it becomes more likely that a random African American is offended if a African American stranger uses the word it their presence, we will see the word disappear...this, I believe, is getting more common.

My 19 year old boys don't know the meaning of the word "pollack", when I was a kid it was a common slur...someday in the near future this word can disappear too, it will require everyone to quit using it.

[JoePhilly]

22. The key point is that Dr. Laura WANTS to be able to use the N-WORD ...

that's the key thing to recognize.

Her defense of WHY she should be able to use the N-Word is irrelevant. She WANTS to be able to use it.

All racists WANT to be able to use that word, because it was a word that they could use to diminish African-Americans. It was a word that gave them a certain power over blacks.

And they are pissed of that they can't use it anymore, at least not in public. They hate the fact that they have to invent replacement words like "welfare queen". That pisses them off.

Dr. Laura's lame argument about African-Americans using that word is nothing more than a failed attempt to regain HER ability to use the N-word. Same for every other white person using that argument.

They want to be able to use the N-word freely again, and they are pissed off that they can't.

(typo)