I was wrong on Afghanistan. We need to get out of there.

[Odin2005]

Our presence there isn't helping a damn thing, even Women's Rights. These warlord fucks are no better that the franking Taliban. And we created these monsters, all of them! All in the name of "stopping the Russians", we turned a thriving society into a hell. There is no fixing the completely dysfunctional state of society there, the Afghans have to do it themselves.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Yep

You're right now. You're allowed to be wrong every once in awhile.

[Odin2005]

2. Hey, at least I can change my mind, unlike the idiots on the other side.

They will follow their BS even if it leads them off a cliff.

[Octafish]

3. K&R

Thank you, Odin2005 -- not for changing your mind, but for putting "Why?" into words.

War is only good for death. The people of Afghanistan have known nothing but non-stop war for almost 33 years.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

4. You are probably right

However, if we leave Afghanistan, we better secure our borders and reform our immigration system because the enemy will continue to plan our demise.

[G_j]

6. so there is an enemy who would invade us in Afghanistan?

fighting them there, so we don't have to do it here?
Is that what you're saying?

[Brooklyns_Finest]

9. My point is

Walking away from Afghanistan will do absolutely zero to shield us from the threat of international terrorism. That is why it is important that we set up proactive mechanisms to prevent the aggressors (whoever they may be) from attacking us.

[Wilms]

18. I'd say stopping the resource grabs and propping up oppressive governments would be a good start.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

8. There is no evidence "the enemy" is in Afghanistan.

Bin Laden fled to Pakistan years ago. And despite what the right wing is telling you, none of the 19 highjackers on those planes came across the Mexican border.

/grammar

[Wilms]

19. That's another thing I don't understand.

Never mind sitting in a cave in Tora Bora or whatever, planning the attack, and God-forbid, future attempts. The 9/11 Commission says these guys were traing in Houston, San Diego, Chicago, and somewhere in Florida.

Did we bomb them?

[EFerrari]

20. Wasn't this planned in Hamburg?

Maybe they were avenging Dresden.

[Odin2005]

10. Osama snuck off to Pakistan a while ago.

FEAR, FEAR, TERRA, TERRA! The Islamofascist boogyman is gonna GET YOU!!! :eyes:

[JohnyCanuck]

5. Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan seems to agree

Britain is protecting the biggest heroin crop of all time

By Craig Murray (Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan)

SNIP

It now exports not opium, but heroin. Opium is converted into heroin on an industrial scale, not in kitchens but in factories. Millions of gallons of the chemicals needed for this process are shipped into Afghanistan by tanker. The tankers and bulk opium lorries on the way to the factories share the roads, improved by American aid, with Nato troops.

How can this have happened, and on this scale? The answer is simple. The four largest players in the heroin business are all senior members of the Afghan government ? the government that our soldiers are fighting and dying to protect.

When we attacked Afghanistan, America bombed from the air while the CIA paid, armed and equipped the dispirited warlord drug barons ? especially those grouped in the Northern Alliance ? to do the ground occupation. We bombed the Taliban and their allies into submission, while the warlords moved in to claim the spoils. Then we made them ministers.

snip

Our Afghan policy is still victim to Tony Blair's simplistic world view and his childish division of all conflicts into 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. The truth is that there are seldom any good guys among those vying for power in a country such as Afghanistan. To characterise the Karzai government as good guys is sheer nonsense.

Why then do we continue to send our soldiers to die in Afghanistan? Our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq is the greatest recruiting sergeant for Islamic militants. As the great diplomat, soldier and adventurer Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Alexander Burnes pointed out before his death in the First Afghan War in 1841, there is no point in a military campaign in Afghanistan as every time you beat them, you just swell their numbers. Our only real achievement to date is falling street prices for heroin in London.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469983/Britain-protecting-biggest-heroin-crop-time.html#ixzz0wjgGDplm

[Odin2005]

12. Hmmm... makes youn wonder who is PROFITING from that Heroin...

[steve2470]

7. k&r nt

[EFerrari]

11. K&R

[Greyhound]

13. Yes, we've built a narco-terrorist state and everything we do makes it worse.

Leaving will make it worse as well (at least in the short term), but at least we will stop making it worse.
:kick: & R

[Edweird]

14. That is correct. It is sad but we cannot 'fix' it. The sooner we leave,

the sooner they can begin the bloody mess of sorting everything out. It's not a question of 'if' but 'when' and how many American service members have to die in the process.

[meowomon]

15. I agree, reluctantly.

The ball was dropped by the neocons who insisted on invading Iraq instead of helping to rebuild their country after we toppled the Taliban. Our government let Karzai and his posse steal more than the country can sustain. They hate us. I am afraid it is too late.

[Odin2005]

16. Yup.

[w8liftinglady]

17. a few years ago-I would have thought we needed to stay...

2 docs i started with in 2005 had helped create a hospital there...things have just gotten worse.We need to leave,and channel that money into our own nation now

[readmoreoften]

21. Thank you.

If we get out of there, maybe there will eventually be a new populist uprising to dethrone the warlords vs taliban situation. It means a lot to me to see people coming around.