I understand "pissing on Falwell's grave" and here's why

[WildEyedLiberal]

I haven't really posted anything at DU since hearing of Jerry Falwell's death, although I have read through several of the DU threads here. There seem to be, broadly speaking, two camps:

1) the people who believe that it is wrong to say unkind things about Falwell at this time and that doing so either a) brings us down to Falwell's level; b) confirms GOPer's beliefs about "nasty lefties"; c) devalues us as progressives.

2) the people who believe that Falwell's hateful politics and bigotry earns him no respite in death and that there is no shame in expressing extreme animosity and loathing for such a wicked man because of the pain he brought to the world.

I understand the position of the first group of people, I really do, and during the other controversial celebrity deathgasms I usually found myself in that camp. I just couldn't see what good it did to say unkind things about Gerald Ford, who ceased being a relevant political figure 30 years ago, Anna Nicole Smith, who was harmless and vapid, or even to an extent Ronald Reagan, who had been a vegetable for so long that his death was almost like a formality.

But Jerry Falwell is different. He was among the elite few movers and shakers almost single-handedly responsible for the birth of the reactionary, anti-Constitution conservative Christian movement in this country without which Reagan and Bush Jr. would not have been possible. He created a political empire built on searing, vulgar, and undiluted hatred. He has enabled an entire generation of false Christians to spit in the face of Christ's teachings and worship a false religion built on blood money and political power, a modern day Caiaphas. He helped foster a political climate that rejoiced in the death of AIDS victims - would little 13 year old Ryan White have been brutally harassed without Jerry Falwell preaching that AIDS was "God's punishment" for evil homosexuals? Would the thousands of LGBT people who have been murdered in hate crimes be alive today if their murderers hadn't believed that it was not only "okay" but even "God's will" to kill homosexuals? Would America have taken AIDS seriously - and perhaps saved some lives - if people like Jerry Falwell hadn't been reaping money and political gain from homophobia?

None of us would even know who Jerry Falwell is if he hadn't chosen to become a national spokesman for hate and bigotry. He made a lot of money promoting the most hateful, divisive politico-religious movement in modern American history. His hate for LGBT people is on par with the hatred of neo-Nazis for Jews and racial minorities - and that is no exaggeration. Read his own words if you doubt me.

The fact is, a LOT of people have very good reason to celebrate the departure from earth of a man who dedicated his life to vicious hatred - hatred that likely had a direct impact on their lives. I understand the "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" crowd, but I have to disagree with them here. I think Falwell is one of the most hateful figures of recent history and some DUers should try to understand that the disgust for Falwell is not simply because "he's on the other side," but because he did more than maybe any other American to spread homophobia, hate, and the poisonous conservative fundamentalist agenda. Those DUers who, just for virtue of being who they are, found themselves hated and maligned by Falwell owe him no courtesy. They owe him no respect.

Falwell is owed nothing from those of us on earth, and what he is owed in the world beyond will come to him regardless of what anyone says here on DU or elsewhere.

[Lint Head]

1. I will not waste my time or breath. He did nothing.

:dem:

[ThomCat]

31. If you think he did nothing

then you weren't one of his targets. x(

Anyone who has faced down the hatred and bigotry that he inspired in his followers isn't going to make the mistake of saying "he did nothing."

[Arugula Latte]

63. "He did nothing."

Care to explain that little statement?

:wtf:

[bigwillq]

117. He did what:

Just a few quotes from the late Rev. just because he did nothing.

:eyes:



On Sept. 11: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists , and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way—all of them who have tried to secularize America—I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.' "

On AIDS: "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals."

On homosexuality: "I believe that all of us are born heterosexual, physically created with a plumbing that's heterosexual, and created with the instincts and desires that are basically, fundamentally, heterosexual. But I believe that we have the ability to experiment in every direction. Experimentation can lead to habitual practice, and then to a lifestyle. But I don't believe anyone begins a homosexual."

On Martin Luther King Jr.: "I must personally say that I do question the sincerity and nonviolent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Mr. James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations."

On Martin Luther King Jr., four decades later: "You know, I supported Martin Luther King Jr., who did practice civil disobedience."

On public education: "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again, and Christians will be running them."

On the separation o f church and state: "There is no separation of church and state."

On feminists: "I listen to feminists and all these radical gals. ... These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men; that's their problem."

On global warming: "I can tell you, our grandchildren will laugh at those who predicted global warming. We'll be in global cooling by then, if the Lord hasn't returned. I don't believe a moment of it. The whole thing is created to destroy America's free enterprise system and our economic stability."

On Bishop Desmond Tutu: "I think he's a phony, period, as far as representing the black people of South Africa."

On Islam: "I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough of the history of his life, written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was a violent man, a man of war."

On Jews : "In my opinion, the Antichrist will be a counterfeit of the true Christ, which means that he will be male and Jewish, since Jesus was male and Jewish."

[RC]

2. I wonder how many would volunteer to help tamp down the dirt on his grave?

[durtee librul]

6. Would that count as a happy dance?

[RC]

11. Yes ma'am it surely would

:evilgrin:

[jollyreaper2112]

49. schultz gets it

[usaftmo]

37. Count me in for that one!

I view his death as a way of no additional garbage spewing from his mouth. I've tried the mute button on my remote, but it doesn't work!

[ooglymoogly]

75. yes, yes

and moisten that earth with a soupson of yellow rain.

[Malikshah]

3. Brilliant, Spot On, Recommended.

One hopes that folks will actually read this and ponder what is said.

Of course, the trolls and agents provocateur will continue their little dance of death and pseudo self-righteousness, but the truth was just spoken.

Thanks.:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[durtee librul]

10. Well ok here goes to all you folks who think he deserves a break

because he had the timerity to die.

My grama had mysthena gravis in her eyes - she couldn't blink and couldn't manufacture tears so she had crutches on her eyelids to keep them open.

Now every Sunday morning of the last years of her life were spent watching Fat Fuck Falwell and Oral Roberts who were going to pray for her and of course heal her......if she sent enough money. She didn't as the disease finally claimed her, but not after her bank account was damn near empty.

She used to cry to my mother about how she wasn't a good christian becuase ol Jer and ol Bob couldn't heal her and after all they were men of God and God must be angry at her becuase she couldn't give more so therefore had to suffer this disease.

Now before you all go off on my grama saying her elevator didn't go all the way to the top - I got news for you. Her disease was horrible. She had NO hope other than these bastards....and they preyed, not prayed on her.

After she passed we found letters that I wish I still had from these fuckers as I would scan them and post them here to just show all the 'enlightened' ones how cruel these 'christians' really are.

Most of them stated, "Gee Gladys, we're sorry, but your gift of $5000 wasn't enough in the Lord's eyes and he is angry you are holding out and not giving freely to Pastor Robert. If you send more next week, we'll make sure you go to the top of Pastor Robert's prayer list and if it's enough in God's eyes, he will heal you by next Sunday at noon."

I kid you not. I couldn't make this crap up if I tried and I was only 12 when she died. That was 45 years ago and I still have no room in my life for these fuckers and the pain and heartached they caused a loved one. May they rot in hell...with or without shorts.

Edited to add: She cried every Sunday for hours when she didn't get healed. Crying is a loose term as she couldn't produce tears.....dry sobs. 82 years old and sobbing. Yepper, I hope ol fat fuck has a video of my grama crying cuz he didn't heal her as he promised.

[Straight Shooter]

14. I have some familiarity with the horrors of myasthenia gravis and I'm sorry she went through that.

My experience isn't personal; it's secondhand.

Only the cruel and heartless take advantage of those who seek to be healed in the name of the Lord.

[babylonsister]

16. Just so you know, I read this about your grama.

That is just cruel; you have every right to be bitter.

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. Yeah I forgot to mention how televangelist ghouls prey on the elderly

I think elder abuse is one of the most hideous and underrated crimes in our nation, and what these "religious" shysters do IS elder abuse. Preying on their fears of mortality, sucking away their limited income like parasites, and all without even the tiniest iota of concern or compassion for these poor elderly people. There's nothing more evil than preying on the weak and helpless, which is why people who abuse children are so hated in society. But what about those who prey on and victimize the elderly? Is that not just as evil?

Your grandma's story is tragic. If it's any consolation, I think you can be reasonably certain that she is closer to the God she believed in than Falwell will ever be...

[madrchsod]

98. you are right

they do prey on the elderly.for that i`m sure he`s where he thinks he should`t be

[StarryNite]

21. Wow! Can I relate to your experience.

My late father-in-law was the same way as your grandmother. He died about a year and a half ago. He was terrified to live. He was terrified to die. He watched those televangelists every fricken Sunday morning. He sent away for all the crap they pitched thinking it would keep him out of pain and later lead him to his heaven. I remember one of the silly things he ordered was a prayer cloth. The damn thing was about 2 square inches of cloth that was supposed to have been prayed over and would help any poor soul that would send in the 10 or 15 bucks for it. :eyes:

I remember going to visit him one Sunday morning and he was all depressed because some TV pastor was telling his audience that if they really had enough faith that they would never be in any kind of pain. My father-in-law sat there almost in tears telling me that he must not have enough faith because he felt pain and without enough faith he was afraid he was doomed to spending all eternity burning in hell.

A few weeks ago while visiting my mother-in-law in the "home" there was a TV preacher on telling his huge audience that babies were evil and sin filled and if they had the power they would kill their parents. How can people buy that shit?

Enough said, I'm getting all pissed off. :mad:

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. The "prayer napkin"??????

OMG, I got a solicitation for one of those in my junk mail! It also came with some bogus "prophecy" that I was strictly warned not to open unless I sent off my "prayer napkin" and my prayers (along with a nice check of course) back to this "ministry."

I was warned that there would be DIRE CONSEQUENCES for opening the prophecy without sending back the prayer napkin!

Oops.

The "prophecy" was basically a three paragraph long fortune cookie, by the way. But I have NO DOUBT that confused, desperate people who are suffering in pain/in very dire financial straits cling to anything, even such obvious hooey as that, because it gives them a glimmer of false hope.

DAMN the people who prey on the poor, the elderly, and the suffering.

[StarryNite]

25. Hey! You just gave me an idea.

How about prayer toilet paper? They could push it by saying it's a great way to cleanse yourself from shit. Each square could have a different verse from Lavidicus.

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. LOL yeah... Leviticus talks about "unclean" things a lot

What's more unclean than THAT?

:rofl: I banish your skidmarks in the name of the LAWRD!

[StarryNite]

29. Ha!

:rofl:

[Crunchy Frog]

89. Two of my elderly patients that I'm a home aide for got those in the mail!

Thank God both of them had the sense to know it was garbage, even the one with dementia. They're obviously on a fishing expedition though, and I'm sure that they can count on getting some number of confused, suffering people without support systems to get sucked into their scam. :grr:

[PurpleChez]

111. I remember the prayer napkin!!!!

Holy crap!

[YOY]

64. The Prayer cloth sounds like a Robert Tilton scam

I prefer to think of him as the "farting preacher." Google that one. It's got some great vids.

[BeliQueen]

77. I am very sorry about your grandmother

The part of Falwell's death that excites me the most is how he'll have to answer for every person he deceived in life.

[Maraya1969]

81. OMG if you can find those letters I would love to see them. I remember calling

one group.....forget the name but they were on TV. I really just wanted to see what they would do. I told the woman I had asthma and she said she had it too and was healed, then she said a little prayer and asked for money!!


I am sorry your grandmother suffered with that disease. I know someone else with it and it is really bad. And I'm really sorry she was one of Falwell et al's business of taking advantage of people.

:hug:

[Crunchy Frog]

88. Absolutely incredible!

My level of disgust for that man has just shot up, and I didn't think it was possible for me to be more disgusted than I already was. What an evil, evil, fuck! I hope that he is being tormented in Hell right now. :grr:

My sympathy for the pain your grandmother had to endure.

[Chovexani]

119. Oh, DL

I am so sorry for what your gramma went through. What Foulwell and his ilk did (and unfortunately continue to do) to good, desperate people like your gramma is despicable.

Oh, how the Furies are feasting tonight.

[babylonsister]

4. Did I ever tell you

what a great writer you are? I've stayed away from the threads, too, and won't contribute, but you've given everyone/anyone license to express themselves. What you've written only makes me wonder about all the blowhards in the corporate media arena who continue to gush over such a hateful, poisonous man.
Thanks, WEL!

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. Aw shucks

:blush:

Thanks lady! Always a pleasure to see you around! :toast:

[durtee librul]

5. K&R!!

And happy as hell to do so....and I am still smilin' he's dead. Don't care. He was a bigot. We don't need bigots in this world anymore than we need anymore Bush kids.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Everybody understands it.

They just don't want to admit it.

[Philosoraptor]

8. Great post. He did great, long term harm to our Democracy,

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Would it maybe be a good idea

to drive a stake through his heart? Just to make sure, I mean.

[Chovexani]

120. Fire, man

Fire does in most ghouls. :evilgrin:

[Straight Shooter]

13. "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." (Shakespeare)

Falwell's evil will go on and on for generations. There is nothing which can measure the irreparable harm he has done.

Well said, WildEyedLiberal. :thumbsup:

[PATRICK]

92. Quoting Shakespeare

can be like quoting the Bible out of context. Anthony was cynically evoking this sympathy as a coldly calculated ploy to divert the people away from the dictatorship of caesar to his own ends. So eloquent people in the sucker crowd can still get misty eyed and emotionally convinced this is the right way to react.

brutus had set up the eulogies in a more straightforward way to influence the mourning of the crowd by explaining logically why the heroic assassins acted in the public interests to restore the Republic. His card was high minded, Anthony's was to the gut and nothing he argued bore much close examination. Such as why exactly it is a good thing that the evil is willfully forgotten. Is that always a good things even for private small timers who left a wreckage of lives and crimes behind them? But there was no argument except a series of nostrums and gut appeals that led the crowd slowly and inexorably toward directed hate
that could easily be set loose. A very very scary speech pertinent to Falwell and others who are ham-handed and dumb by comparison but have always gotten away with the same exploitation. because the media is the priesthood of mob exploitation, keeping order, serving exploiters, avoiding examination and civic interest.

We have to keep mentioning this, as much as we want the rituals for good people and see equal treatment of Falwell and MLK as "the right thing to do". Slander against good men always crept out of the dark corners, maybe long after the dangerously emotional funeral rites and honors to true civic heroes. True enemies of public liberty and discourse have a legacy of underlings successors, young Anthonys who need no comfort and opportunity, no evidence that society will reward their memory either.

The point is if only the mob control discourse that media demagogues like Falwell used, made and tyrannized to the detriment of all that is good and holy has become a repulsive, fraudulent and galling hypocrisy. The epitome of its spoilage then seeks the slick and easy post mortem funeraries and we Brutuses have had it up to here. Had the public forums and society had not been raped and abused by the very people who seek automatic homage indeed the "best" of DU would predominate. Compassion. RIP. etc. We don't need to back the falseness that will lead to being duped into hate, worse dictatorship and complete loss of reason and justice. WE want our republic back and all due rituals can then again have untarnished meaning.

[acmavm]

15. YES! Your's is the best damn post I've seen as an attempt to explain

why there is such hatred of this horrible piece of crap sub-human specimen.

[libnnc]

17. That's a really good post

I think there are some here who don't understand that Falwell was the chief architect of the Moral Majority. So much of the "backlash" conservative politics of the 1980s were a direct result of Falwell's money, power and influence. Thanks for putting together in a great post.

[Vidar]

19. Great post. Falwell was a cancer to Christians as well as those he

attacked. Though I don't believe in a literal hell, if anyone deserves to burn it is is he, hell-spawned & returning to the flames.

[Martin Eden]

20. Truthful assessment, but not celebration.

I think it is necessary to speak up and tell the truth about the hateful nature of what Fallwell preached. It is necessary to dispell the "respectful" praise that too often paints a false picture of the real impact of a public figure. Too often such "respect" serves to validate too many wrongs.

Let us celebrate when this man's hateful message no longer resonates among Americans who identify themselves as Christians, but let's not celebrate the man's death. Let's not carry on this man's legacy of hatred.

[Irishonly]

57. Very well said

I recall a neighbor boy who loved the 'Teletubbies' and how he heard what Fallwell said, I have no clue. His comment to me was that he thought he was not a nice man. Sums it up, IMHO.

[Martin Eden]

122. Children are wiser than we know

A young mind unconditioned by corruptive influences and unencumbered by the preconceptions of experience can sometimes perceive the truth more clearly than their jaded elders.

[colorado_ufo]

95. Agree - well said.

[TankLV]

123. CELEBRATE that bastard's death! YES! I am PROUD to do so!

I is RIGHT and JUST to be ANGRY - VERY angry at that EVIL cretin...

JOY is the day he is no longer able to further his hatred and damage to the world...

[Martin Eden]

125. There is no joy related to Falwell ...

... until his hateful message is rejected by those who call themselves Christians.

His damage remains to be undone.

[glitch]

22. Bravo! K & R nt

[BrklynLiberal]

24. Well said. I mean REALLY well said!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Zenlitened]

26. Very well said.

"...The fact is, a LOT of people have very good reason to celebrate the departure from earth of a man who dedicated his life to vicious hatred - hatred that likely had a direct impact on their lives... Those DUers who, just for virtue of being who they are, found themselves hated and maligned by Falwell owe him no courtesy. They owe him no respect.

[Cults4Bush]

28. Our very own Mullah Omar, only not as pious.

..or rich for that matter.

[MLFerrell]

30. Extraordinarily well-said.

"None of us would even know who Jerry Falwell is if he hadn't chosen to become a national spokesman for hate and bigotry."

Indeed. He made his name on hatred. You reap what you sow...

EDIT: typo

[Kurovski]

32. Kick.

Thank you for taking the time to write an extremely thoughtful essay.

[Swamp Rat]

33. k&r

[aaronbees]

34. You get right to the core of the issue

Very happy to recommend this, the best post on the issue all day. Thank you.

[diane in sf]

35. Thank you--tell it like it is! eom

[pampango]

36. And what happens when a great liberal dies and the RW

"pisses on his/her grave" saying that he/she was a purveyor of class or racial division/hatred (or some other RW talking point)?

Assuming that progressives agreed with the recently deceased's politics, we will probably say that this "pissing" just shows how classless and disgusting freepers are. Does treatment of the deceased depend on the extent to which you agree with his/her politics? Is the castigating of people like Falwell (or Reagan or great liberals like Wellstone or anyone else), upon their death, "necessary" as a part of the political "wars" which require that each side miss no opportunity to pursue the rhetoric that our side is better than your side?

[Chulanowa]

39. Give me a break!

First off, you appear to be operating udner the assumption that if we were to canonize Falwell, or some other random right-winger, that suddenly the right wing would hold hands with us and we would skip through the daffodils talking about "best friends forever" or something. No. We could brown-nose all we want, they're still going to piss on anyone who dies while liberal.

This is not a case of politics. It is not people being glad he's gone because he's a right-winger. Nor does it have anything to do with the religion he claimed to follow. No, being glad Falwell is dead is not about what the man WAS. It's about what he did.

Jerry Falwell preyed upon the weak and fearful - the elderly men and women who would empty their bank accounts for salvation because they were told their aches and pain were a sign of sin, the housebound faithful who felt they needed a service and only had the man on the television to turn to for that. This man got fat and rich exploiting others. Not only that, but he did so by perverting a religion that emphasizes giving aid to others, being honest and charitable.

Furthermore, this man was a hate-pimp. He stated that thousands needed to die because lesbians and pagans exist in the world. He cursed the millions worldwide who have HIV / AIDS, and then laid the blame for their illness at the feet of homosexuals, claiming the disease was God's punishment to the world for tolerating homosexuals. He was a purveyor of misogyny, railing against any and all rights won for women, encouraging dominance over the whole sex and advocating violence against those who don't properly submit.

This man, if he can be called such, was a blight upon our species. it has jack shit to do with his political leanings. It has everything to do with what he did, and what he encouraged others to do. Were it not for Falwell and his ilk, I'm certain more gay men and women would be alive today. Many people's elderly relatives would not have lived in squalor while trying to buy their way out of the hell this man told them they were waiting for. The many men, women, and children infected with HIV would be less likely to be treated as though they deserved the condition as divine motherfucking punishment.

[pampango]

42. I advocated not "pissing on his grave" not to win favor with the RW

(I agree with you that would be both futile and craven), but because I insist on living with a set of principles, including not "pissing on graves" that would be alien to freepers.

While I agree that we should not be glad that just any RW'er is gone, the notoriety of any (in)famous RW'er (or LW'er for that matter) will come from what they have done or said. Opening up "grave pissing" for all (in)famous "wingers" is not for me.

[Frank Cannon]

47. Falwell wasn't just an "(in)famous 'winger'"

He is DIRECTLY responsible for much that is fucked up in this country today, in case you hadn't noticed.

I'm glad the bastard's dead, and I have no moral qualms about that feeling. I feel the same about his passing as I would if I went to the doctor and found out that a colon cancer I had was gone.

[Chulanowa]

51. I don't advocate pissing on his grave, either; it's a waste of good urine

I don't really get the notion of holding respect for the corpses of people who deserved none during life, however. So he's been downgraded to "inanimate object" status in the grand hierarchy of organic matter. Death is not a big deal. It's not some state of being that only a deserving few can hope to achieve, after all. Keeling over today does not erase the fuckups of yesterday, not for me, not for you, not for Jerry Falwell, either.

The fact is, this man was an utter piece of shit while he was alive. The only redeeming factor that death has added to Jerry Falwell is that, because of it, he's finally shut the hell up.

[montanto]

60. !!!there it is!!!

[Maven]

96. Holy crap.

Excellent post!

:thumbsup:

[philosophie_en_rose]

56. If it's not true, who gives a damn what the RW say.

They'll say any number of things, regardless of whether a liberal is dead or not.

If it's not true, then why should we be defensive about their comments?

[mondo joe]

72. So we shouldn't be truthful because someone else might lie?

Hmm.

[TankLV]

124. Oh get a fucking clue!

It's as simple as right and wrong - GOOD and EVIL.

The liberal has done good deeds and any derogatory comments would be to a person who did GOOD WORKS - do you fucking understand that?

I know of no liberal that supports racial or class division or hatred...

Are you fucking nuts?!

You and people like you are one of the major reasons our country is in the bad shape its in...

You, and people like you, make me sick...

[Perky]

38. K&R well stated. But as loathsome as Falwell's politcs are

Descrating anyone's burual site is just tacky.

[LeftishBrit]

40. Yes.

Extremist Moslem preachers can get jailed or deported for inciting violence and terrorism. Falwell was in the same category IMO; but somehow it was all regarded as legal.

[5X]

41. K and R. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

43. Giving a history of why Jerry Falwell

was not a good person and rallying around the battle cry to continue the fight against the fundamentalist mentality that pervades the USA is a far cry from glorifying in an orgy of hate that I have seen on these boards.

It is a matter of class.

[Cobalt Violet]

44. K & R

:kick:

Farwells dead! :party::party::party::party: :party: :party:

[Stuckinthebush]

45. That, my friend, is the best summation I've seen

you are a very good writer. Thank you for your clarity.

[EstimatedProphet]

46. I understand everything you say

I am simply not going to REJOICE in his death. He was scum, pure and simple, and I am glad that he can't hurt people anymore. Nevertheless, I'm not going to gloat. I'm not making a statement about what other people should be doing - I'm doing what I feel I must.

[mwb970]

48. Your position is hard for me to understand.

A piece of "scum, pure and simple" who "hurt people" is gone, yet you are not going to REJOICE. I'm different. When terribly bad things go away, I do rejoice. But hey, that's just me.

[EstimatedProphet]

70. I love the fact that he can't spread his filth anymore

I'm just not rejoicing over his death. We all die, and we all want to live.

[NastyDiaper]

50. Tinky Winky: "Flowers not Piss."

o_O

[progressoid]

52. Oh you WildEyedLiberal with your...your words and stuff.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[debbierlus]

53. Good riddance

You are dead on.:beer:

[SnowCritter]

54. Great analysis!

I hope you don't mind, but I've copied your text and saved it.

If it's OK with you, I'd like to use it when need arises - with proper attribution, of course.

[catmandu57]

55. I've stayed out of the threads too

I didn't like this fat faker when he was alive and just because he died doesn't mean I have to like him now. If we had never been cursed with this maggot I'm positive the world would have been a much better place, he was a putrid vile extremist. Extremists of any stripe bother me, christian, muslim, dobbism, they're pretty much the same.

The way I feel about it, the fucker is dead, if I'm wrong he's being called to justify his actions before a higher court, if I'm right he's dead and will rot away never knowing nothing forever and ever.

Great post.

[hvn_nbr_2]

58. "Dedicated his life to vicious hatred" "National spokesman for hate"

That about says it all.

[saigon68]

59. Great Post

[kayell]

61. Falwells death almost makes me wish that I did believe in his religion

so that I could really believe that he was suffering in the hell that he tried to consign so many of us to.

[montanto]

62. kick-a-roony

[LeftHander]

65. K&R - Best of the best....

[Maven]

66. K/R

[Hawaii Hiker]

67. Excellent post

Good point about Ryan White..That poor kid went thru hell in large part because of those filthy right wing "christians"....Bad enough for Ryan to have gotten AIDS thru a blood transfusion, but Falwell helped build up a fear & hatred of AIDS victims...

Alot of these evangelical leaders have fortunes in part because they were able to convince some poor woman on social security to send her monthly check to the likes of Falwell, etc...

Jerry Falwell was a bad person, plain & simple...He helped start a movement that preaches absolute hatred of those who don't share their warped views on religion...His comments about the gays, athesists, etc. being to blame for 9/11 might be the most disgusting thing I've ever heard...

[dansolo]

79. The irony of his statements on 9/11

The thing about 9/11 is that Falwell, and his ilk, and their pro-imperialist agenda, were much more direct causes of the attacks (assuming you don't believe MIHOP).

[nam78_two]

68. K&R-Thank you-the best post on the topic so far imo.nt

[kid a]

69. i agree..best post today...thank you nt

[yardwork]

71. Right on!

[treestar]

73. So true, there are people who cannot benefit from even their own death

As a time of sympathy. Some people are just over that line. Hitler, for an obvious choice. And a few others.

Death does not undo what he was in life, and it is his legacy we are talking about.

[China_cat]

74. The fact about Falwell (or anybody else)

is that an asshole doesn't stop being an asshole just because he's dead.

It just means that he doesn't have any chance of amending his assholiness.

[racaulk]

76. Thank you for posting this.

You've summed up so well why many of us feel the way we do. Thank you! :)

[greyghost]

78. Concise...

and to the point. Very well said!:kick:

[Jack Rabbit]

80. Ms, WildEyed

As one of those firmly in the first group, I understand the animosity toward Falwell.

To those who give him no respite in death: what's the rush? We have an eternity to damn his memory. There is no point in starting right away. This is a time to respect those who were close to Falwell personally and let them mourn. To do otherwise, in my mind, doesn't so much bring us down to Falwell's level but to the level of Fred Phelps. It's just ghoulish.

If I could work my will, Falwell would live on and everything he stood for would die. Unfortunately, bigots, like the poor, will always be with us. The best we can do is marginalize them.

[sofa king]

82. Jack Rabbit, I respectfully disagree.

Specifically, I disagree with your statement that we have an eternity to damn his memory. Rather, what I see a lot of readers here doing is reminding all of us about the dark and thoroughly disagreeable side of Falwell that's being carefully washed over in the press.

The man is being dutifully cleansed in death by those who have profited from his agenda of political motivation through manipulation of peoples' ignorance and hate--and it's the hagiography that people are going to remember if we don't do something about it right now.

I think everyone deserves to have it pointed out that at this point even though he can't personally make it any worse, we are in fact living in Jerry Falwell's America: our greedy, corrupt, ignorant, hypocritical, hate-motivated, jingoistic, crusading, over-righteous America. Falwell may deserve more credit for the creation of that America--the parts of America we so desperately want to and need to change--than most others.

Let's make him bear that cross in death that he so scrupulously avoided in life. Let's do it right now.

[Maven]

97. This is exactly it.

We still live, to quote Gore Vidal, in the United States of Amnesia.

The recasting of this man's legacy has already begun by the very people who profited from his vile career when he was alive. We have to stop that from happening, NOW. To do otherwise would be an insult to all the people hurt already by this despicable man, and all the people who will continue to feel the effects of his lifelong hate campaign long after his death.

[Jack Rabbit]

110. Response

Unless Dr. Falwell's theology has more literal truth than I give it credit for having, he's not going to bear any crosses ever again.

You give Dr. Falwell too much credit. Falwell did not invent using Scripture to promote hate and fanaticism. It's as American as apple pie. In the twentieth century, he was preceded by Fr. Coughlan and Rev. Carl McIntyre. He had many contemporaries who conflated Christianity with right wing political views, such as Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and Pat Robertson. And please take a look at your American history. If you want a good example of a Bible-thumping hatemonger, I suggest you examine Cotton Mather. The phenomena to use religion to inspire or justify hate has been around for a long time. It's not going away just because one of its most notorious practitioners died.

I can go on and on about Falwell and maybe in a few days, I will. For now, it seems like a good time to give it a rest.

[sofa king]

129. Fair enough.

I understand your position and believe me, I've had plenty enough of Cotton Mather to last me a lifetime. He was also a terrible historian, by the by, and the guy crapped out books faster than Stephen King. He's a perfect example of influence by volume, and with a different definition of the word "volume," it brings us right back to the subject at hand.

[EFerrari]

93. Is Jerry Falwells's family subbed to DU and nobody told me?

No.

And tell me how to muster respect for a family who supported his destructiveness.

[northofdenali]

103. Exactly my thoughts, sfexpat - I found a quote that adds to this -

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.
-Haile Selassie

Not just the family, but all those out there who gave support to his misogyny, bigotry, hatred and fear of the unknown. His life should never be celebrated, only castigated.

[EFerrari]

131. James Dobson is comforting the family, they don't need me.

And while I have a deep appreciation of the collective kindness of DU, imho we shouldn't make the Reagan mistake again which only gives the destructiveness of these people more traction in our culture.

[Jack Rabbit]

113. How to muster respect for a family who supported his destructiveness.

They are human beings. They have lost a loved one.

Any problems I had with Falwell I had with Falwell the public personality. It would be awfully silly to think that was all there was to him. Otherwise, not being a believer in original sin, there is no reason visit the sins of the father on his children or those of the husband on his wife. They are in pain; let them be comforted.

[EFerrari]

127. No deal.. That bastard didn't thrive in a vacuum.

[Jack Rabbit]

128. Excuse me, Ms. Expat, but I'd like to point this out

In my response to you, I riased the matter of his loved one and their needs.

In your reply to me, you remarked that the basterd didn't thrive in a vaccuum. That is true, but why are you so concerned about the bastard now? The bastard is dead. No amount of verbal abuse you can heap on Falwell now is going to bother him in the slightest. You can kick his corpse down the street, if you'd like, but he won't feel it.

Falwell was a symptom of a larger problem. He was not the problem itself. That problem will live on through Pat Robertson and James Dobson and a few other silly old men and their followers. And the next generation of them, too.

A more constructive task is just do the right thing and not worry about Falwell. If there is a God, He'll take care of him. There are AIDS patients to care for; there are homosexuals being persecuted; there are civil liberties being violated; there's an arrogant, imperialist war we need to stop.

Falwell spread fear and hate. Fear is to be washed away not with more hate, but knowledge. Go out tonight and light a candle. Spread the word: the groups of people Falwell hated are not any one's enemy. That will do more to diminsh Falwell's legacy than a thousand curses on his name.

[EFerrari]

130. Like this loved one? Little Jerry Junior?

The Falwell Family History

Forbes profiles Rev. Jerry Falwell and his son, Jerry Falwell Jr. and their efforts to turn Liberty University into a “a West Point for the faithful.”

The article examines how the Falwells turned their business around after falling into a $100 million debt which stemmed from the school’s reliance on Falwell’s dwindling ministry. Part of the recovery can be attributed to the fact that they have received multi-million dollar donations from the likes of best-selling “Left Behind” author Tim LaHaye, who donated $7 million to “build an ice rink and a student center with five basketball courts and an Olympic-size pool.”



http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2006/09/the_falwell_fam.html

Maybe Dr. Dobson is right.

Dobson Grieves with Falwell Family
Social conservatives will continue 'battle for righteousness' in Falwell's honor

May 15, 2007

Colorado Springs, Colo. –– Focus on the Family Chairman James C. Dobson, Ph.D., issued the following statement today in response to news that the Rev. Jerry Falwell had passed away:

"Our hearts and prayers go out to Jerry’s wife Macel, his children Jerry, Jonathan and Jeannie, and his church. This is a tragic loss for them – and for all Americans. Jerry’s passions and convictions changed the course of our country for the better over the last 20 years – and I was proud to call him my friend."

http://focusonthefamily.com/press/pressreleases/A000000869.cfm

You're right. Falwell was only part of the problem and his two sons, one of whom was his lawyer and the other - who is no doubt a fine pastor - seem to plan to carry on his "work".

[Raffi Ella]

83. Bravo!

Bravo Bravo Bravo!Thank you for articulating so beautifully what many many many Americans are feeling on the occassion of that vile mans death.

Just one other thing to add:Secular America is wide awake now;one good thing that came from the culmination of Falwells decades long crusade to obliterate what we know as The United States of America is to strengthen our - Secular Americas - resolve to NEVER allow them - Falwell and the like -to take us to the brink of fascism as they most certainly had until the mid terms of '06 again.

Let Falwells legacy to Secular America be to STAND UP and FIGHT and never again allow such evilness to pervade our country EVER again!

[mnhtnbb]

84. Well said. May Falwell receive the judgment he deserves.

[NBachers]

85. Church sanctified Mussolini

I remember watching a filmclip of Mussolini standing on a parapet over a throng of people. As Mussolini stood there and goaded the people on, a priest used his holy water container to sprinkle Il Duche with holy water in the sign of the cross, over and over again.

Figures who use pseudo-religion to build movements of hatred and fascism deserve to burn in hell. Roast, Jerry, roast.

[L. Coyote]

86. HELP list the BUSH/CHENEY scandals, PLEEEASE ... list just toooo looong.

This is just too much work for less than a group.

Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x899312

"You have to give America's most-hated Christian a lot of credit. Even in taking his final fall (while alive), to the floor in his office at oxymoronic "Liberty University" in solitude, he pulled off a thorough going coup like noone else could have mustered. Like the lead buffalo of a large herd, he caused a massive shift in direction as he went down. Except, in this case, the herd that followed him in his descent wasn't his own--he took the opposition herd down with him, over the buffalo jump to hell. .... "

[Crunchy Frog]

87. Best post that I've seen on this subject.

I expressed no vicious sentiments over the deaths of Ford, Reagan, or Anna Nicole. Jerry Falwell is in a totally different class. I genuinely think of him as one of the most evil people in recent history, with no redeeming characteristics, and his death brings me no greater sorrow than bin Laden's death would.

For his sake, I hope that there is a Hell.

[WildEyedLiberal]

91. Exactly

No American is going to pretend to give a damn when bin Laden dies, and no one should give a damn for Falwell, either. Both are evil and both have damaged America greatly, albeit in different ways.

[The Count]

90. Beautiful! Not celebrating - but assessing.

[Jawja]

94. Well said.

I believe one of his most despicable acts was to blame the attacks of 9/11 on "gays, lesbians, feminists, liberals and the ACLU..." (paraphrasing here). What a disgusting thing to say when 3000 Americans died; and what a foolish thing to do in trying to demonize fellow Americans at a time of a great national tragedy.

That un-American statement is enough alone to merit the eulogy Falwell is getting on DU at this time.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

99. Excellent, excellent post.

Most of the time when a person dies, you can think of SOMETHING good they did or represented. Not so for Falwell. I have no feelings of regret at his death at all, just relief. I will not watch news coverage about his death. It won't accurately portray what he did in life and will just make my blood pressure go up. I wonder if he was also a total ass to his family.

[Maryland Liberal]

100. Mark me down for the first group

I think the Golden Rule applies here - do you want people ripping you apart when your time comes? And what about Falwells Family? Have a little respect here.

[TankLV]

126. Because it WON'T EVER HAPPEN - I'm a GOOD person - I can't even begin to start being as EVIL as that

ugly fat cretin if I were to start today for the rest of my life - that's why.

I can bet your life that NOBODY will rip me apart when I die.

Count on it...

[rpannier]

101. I agree with your post

I share with you, in that, I never felt compelled to 'celebrate' Reagan, Ford or the litany of other republikkans that have died over the past by re-living the many things about them that I despised when they were alive.

Falwell is another story. He used that smirking, happy, man-of-God media-driven drivel to push his anti-Homosexual, anti-non-fundamentalist Christian on a nation. He was the ultimate wedge-driven person. He may have been one of the two-or-three most intentionally divisive men of the 20th Century.

The litany of his hypocracy was amazing. He criticized Clinton for his heterosexual, adult, consentual affair, but glossed over the disgusting Foley scandal with a teen-aged male page as something that was insignificant.

There are only two other men whose death I will NOT stay silent about, and both of those men are supposedly 'men of God', they are Marion 'pat' Robertson and Fred Phelps.

on edit: I admit when Pinochet died I would have thrown his body from a helicopter into the Pacific Ocean. And if I ever find his grave, I will dance on it and piss on it.

[NanceGreggs]

102. A thoughtful and clear-headed analysis ...

... of what went on here yesterday, not only in print on this site, but in the minds and hearts of those who reacted the way they did.

I, for one, couldn't agree more. While I feel compassion for Falwell's family members and friends in their time of loss, I feel nothing but relief that someone who devoted his life, his fame, his fortune to promoting hatred and bigotry is no longer capable of doing so.

Falwell, and those of his ilk, chose celebrity and a public persona, and therefore cannot be shielded by any pretended sense of privacy in death.

Had Falwell spewed his venom as merely a political figure, it would have been despicable enough. The fact that he did so under the guise of a man of Christian faith is beyond reprehensible.

He deserved no respect in life, and is equally undeserving now.

[WildEyedLiberal]

105. Getting a compliment from you is mighty humbling

:blush:

Thank you, I'm glad you liked my attempt to put this into words.

[Political_Junkie]

104. Agreed!

Thank you for putting into words what I was too angry to voice. (Without lots of expletives, that is.) As far as I am concerned this man helped to ruin my country. I, for one, will never forgive him.

[19jet54]

106. I would have preferred to...

... throw a warm cup of piss in his face while he was in a wheel chair, invalid from a debilitating stroke, every day until his long slow death - BUT, this will do! :evilgrin:

[greiner3]

107. I've got my own fuckwell story;

When I was living in south Virginia, I worked with some good ol boys. One of them, younger and a bit more educated than the rest said that the night before he had had a date with fuckwell's daughter, jeannie. This was confirmed by our boss who said that my co-worker went to church with her. Well anyway, this kid said that upon arriving at the fuckwell estate he was escorted into their mansion and met the head fuckwell, jerry himself. jerry said not to keep his jeannie out too late, say 3 or 4am would do it. jerry gave this guy his gold Visa (before platinum or titanium were around much) and the keys to his brand new Cadillac for the evening. This kid came to work and told us this and I forgot to ask if he nailed her. Given that her dad all but gave this kid her dowry, I'm surprised that they weren't engaged that night. You just never know about people. But I know about ol jerry 20 years ago!

[bullwinkle428]

108. Absolutely amazing post! You hit on a number of essential elements,

including my own similar feelings of discomfort over some the negative comments that followed the deaths of those you mentioned, as well as the way he was able to foment such hatred of AIDS victims to the point where a 13-year-old boy was receiving death threats.

The blogger at LTR put together a great column which included a number of particularly odious quotes of Falwell's...here's the link for those interested:

http://ltradio.blogspot.com/

[rhett o rick]

109. Great post. I agree that we should never sink to the level of those we oppose.

However, expressing hatred for a wicked person is way different than behaving like him. A bad example is that it is ok to hate Adolf Hitler but not exterminate people. Way, way different. As far as worrying about the vermin on the right's reaction to a liberal death, it shouldn't even cross your mind. They are wicked and will do it anyway. Mr. Falwell has to make his peace with his maker. My money is on hell. Someone else said in here said something like, "God may forgive Mr. Falwell, but I can't". Mr. Falwell can no longer hurt anyone.

[upi402]

112. Rightards can't take their own medicine

Tough shit
Take it Righties.

You've used our best and bravest as canon fodder and political ad props.

You've abandoned the troops after you used them like al-anon wives.

You've murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents and had a pretty good payday for it.

You've looted our treasury and sullied our country's good name.

And the immoral majority made it all possible.
Yes, Falbad was a sick sick man. So was Dahmer and Bundy.
Effemall!

[Faygo Kid]

114. Liberty U. and Regent Law School will smite our nation for generations

It's not just him. He has left a legacy of Monica Goodlings ready to do the bidding of Bush and his similar successors without question, until they have thoroughly wrecked the Constitution. That's the real Falwell legacy. We can recover from his hypocrisy and hate, but we can't recover from the untold thousands of right wingers ready to battle for God and George Bush (who appear to them to be one and the same, from what I can see).

[tlsmith1963]

115. The Fundies Brought GWB & the Neocons to Power

That's enough of a reason for me to hate them, even Falwell. It's their fault that the world is so screwed up. It will be a long time before I forgive them, if ever.

[tomp]

116. just a little nitpicking.

i am of the opinion that nixon, ford, and reagan's legacy are very much with us today, that the failure to properly investigate, expose, and sum up the lessons within their "legacies" is what has brought us to where we are today. the kid glove treatment they all received in life and in death is very much an ongoing problem. progressive people have to expose the treachery of these traitors at every step without let-up.

wonderful post, thanks!

p.s.: i was going to post yesterday that i see falwell as a pharisee. i hesitated and you beat me to it.

[Chovexani]

118. Well said.

For some of us, Foulwell was more than a guy on the opposite side of the political fence. He was actively trying to make our lives miserable--to the point of ending them.

[and-justice-for-all]

121. auf Wiedersehen arschloch!!!

..A worthless piece of shit who will get NO REMORSE from me.