Anyone ask the Lenape Native American tribe about the 'mosque'?

[AnArmyVeteran]

Since the Lenape Native Americans owned the land in New York City you would think they should have a say in what is allowed to be built there, not redneck thugs who are descendants of those who invaded North America and practiced genocide against native Americans so they could steal their land.

Of course, most of those people who murdered the true owners of this country's land were 'Christians' too, just like the so-called 'Christians' who are condemning an entire group of people just because of their religion. I put Christians in quotes because I'm not talking about real Christians.

Real Christians are practicing Christians who wouldn't condemn entire groups of people for the actions of a few. Right wing 'Christians' are not 'Christians' at all, because it is impossible to be a right wing conservative extremist and a Christian at the same time. They are opposites of each other.

Conservative extremist Christians do not walk in the footsteps of Jesus. They walk on a path covered with hatred, bigotry, racism, fear, rage and profound ignorance. And they certainly don't adhere to the words in the Bibles they are thumping. It's obvious they haven't read the parts that say "judge not, lest ye be judged" or "take the plank out of one's own eye before trying to remove a splinter from another's".

The best word to describe 'conservative extremist Christians' is 'hypocrites'. They live and breathe hypocrisy...

[joeybee12]

1. Come on, that's not fair...

You're being REASONABLE! Repukes/Freepers/fascists can't understand that concept.

[AnArmyVeteran]

4. I'm sorry Joeybee12. I'll try to be more unreasonable in the future :)

[old mark]

2. I'm part Osage, not Lenape, but nobody asked us about St. Patricks

Cathedral, AKAIK, nor that "state" thing, highways, cities, etc.

Some people take an awful lot for granted.

mark

[AnArmyVeteran]

5. For the rest of the thieves & murderers who took this country, I apologize.

Although, my family wasn't involved (my grandparents were from Europe) I believe it was a crime what the white man did to native Americans. Right wingers call this 'God's' chosen country and say how Christians founded it, but they never want to accept responsibility for the carnage of the early 'Christians' who slaughtered native Americans just to steal their land. I've heard people try to even bring that subject up on talk radio and the hosts always go on instant attacks condemning the callers as being anti-American. They believe no one should ever say anything negative about our country, even if it is true.

It's cool you are related to the true owners of this land.

[old mark]

6. You all gonna owe us a lot of rent.....nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

7. I have a few Mardi Gras beads :)

That's about all I have too... :(

[old mark]

12. Well, I have a few guns and blankets...all I need is a horse...

and hair....Bald ndns don't make it...


mark

I do have an old Hyundai, too...Hmmm

[AnArmyVeteran]

16. The blankets are not infected with smallpox are they?

[old mark]

25. No, but some of them smell like my dog....nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

32. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep my stinking beads.

[proteus_lives]

11. "true owners of this land."

Really? :eyes:

I'm an American, you're an American.

We're all the true owners of this land.

[old mark]

13. Mighty white of ya.....nt

[proteus_lives]

14. Lulz-worthy.

So you're more of an American then me?

[old mark]

24. Probably not. You seem to be more of an "american" than I want to be.

Have a great day.

mark

[proteus_lives]

29. Even more lulz-worthy.

Back at ya.

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. If another country invaded us and took control would it be 'their' land?

Or would it be considered stolen?

Hawaiians own the land and non-Hawaiian people who live on top of it can only own their structures.

[proteus_lives]

18. If this were 1710, you'd have a point.

[AnArmyVeteran]

20. What difference does time make? Just curious.

I guess the statute of limitations is 7 years for theft, but there are no limits for murder. And that's what white men did to take control of this land. I don't believe the powerful should always triumph over the vulnerable or weak.

It's happening right now but in a different way. The rich and powerful are using laws they wrote to basically steal our country and our government. We the people built this country but only a handful of people own most of it. It's not much different than those who live in total poverty like in the Middle East while a handful of corrupt members of the 'ruling class' can steal all of their county's resources. And what makes things worse is the US supporting those oppressive regimes against the people. We've been meddling in that area for 3 generations or more and our actions led to people being oppressed by the tyrants we support, like Saddam Hussein and countless others. No wonder s lot of people in those areas hate Americans. If we were in the same situation we would probably react just as they have.

[proteus_lives]

21. Here's the rub.

"I don't believe the powerful should always triumph over the vulnerable or weak."

You're right, in a perfect world they shouldn't. But the human race isn't perfect and it probably never will be. White Europeans conquered the U.S. The Chinese eliminated/subjected other Asian cultures to unify China. Shaka Zulu wiped-out other tribes to form his Zulu empire, the Aztecs brutally reigned over Central Mexico, etc. etc.

We've only just recently began to experiment with different ways. The sins of America's founding are tragically not original or limited to that event.

And today we're making a lot of the same mistakes the British empire did, the Romans did, the Russians did, the Chinese did, the Japanese did, the Egyptians did. Maybe it will turn out the same, maybe our democratic origins will be reclaimed. Who knows?

"No wonder s lot of people in those areas hate Americans. If we were in the same situation we would probably react just as they have."

No wonder at all. Doesn't matter what we do. People will hate us. We're the top country at the moment and no one likes the toughest guy on the block. Another thing you can learn from history.

"but there are no limits for murder."

Do you really believe that people should be punished for the sins of their ancestors? Because then every human on earth belongs in jail. Think about it.

[SpiralHawk]

17. Native peoples have a very different concept of relationship to the land

and to the earth. "Own" was not part of traditional Native ways in relation to the land or the Earth. That's an imported concept, and practice.

Everyone needs the land to live. Thus, everyone has a right to the land, and a responsibility to the land.

[SpiralHawk]

22. LENNI-LENAPE = 'The real people'

...there is evidence of sedentary Anishinabe-Algonkian settlements going back at least 6,280 years, and occupation in the area dating back 7,000 years as it became inhabitable after the Ice Age...

[AnArmyVeteran]

33. Thanks for that info!

[SpiralHawk]

3. Great read: Native New Yorkers, by Evan Pritchard

Tells the story of Manhatta before the Dutch, and everyone else arrived...

Fascinating to get a sense of the island when it was populated with native peoples and villages...and how the native people fared as the Colonialists took over, and how their descendants continue to fare...

Evan also wrote Henry Hudson and the Algonquins of New York, and No Word for Time.

http://www.algonquinculture.org/

[SpiralHawk]

8. Kamunipaw - the site of the World Trade Center

"On September 11, 1609, the Half Moon anchored at the far landing of the great crossing place of the Tulpehoken (Turtle Island) Trail, where they were greeted by a great throng eager to trade. Hudson and others rowed to shore in their small boat and stepped onto Manhattan opposite Kamunipaw, which itself means “on the opposite side.”

"It was apparently an important spot for greeting and exchanging trading goods with foreigners. This was the site of the future World Trade Center, which fell exactly 392 years later, on the last day of the year following the end of the Seven Fire cycles. He presented the people of Turtle Island with a crossroads, a time of decision, as had been predicted so many centuries before.

"Those who knew of the prophecies greeted the Half Moon voyagers royally. Although the native people of New York did not generally share their prophecies with whites, some of them relating to Hudson were revealed in the letter from Munsee descendants to Zachary Taylor in 1849..."

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/PritchardE1.php?p=6

[SpiralHawk]

10. The Tammany Legend

...that sounds interesting...

Apparently Kamunipaw was a point of prophetic focus long before 9/11 came along...And it sounds like the kind of place that would welcome people of all colors and all faiths. That's the old tradition here on Tulpehoken (Turtle Island/North America).

Fascinating...to this Hawk, at any rate...

[gratuitous]

9. Why should anyone ask? They sold the land

Okay, now I suppose you're going to get all up into that whole "ownership" thing, but what you will never understand is that those aboriginal savages and the present Mooslim owners of the building now don't got no rights, at least not like white folks have rights. So white people get to dictate the terms of property ownership after they've bought, after they've sold, and just about any other time they want, in perpetuity. While folks that aren't white or don't worship the right God have to do as they're told.

There! I've run rings around you logically. I expect my phone to ring almost any second now, with a job offer from Fox.

[stuntcat]

19. reckity rec!

kickity kick :kick:

these "Christians" have turned me into a militant Atheist.

[malaise]

23. Maybe we should ask all the indigenous Americans

what they think about all the Christian terrorist churches that sprung up while they were being slaughtered in the name of Jesus.

[Rebubula]

26. All Land is stolen

There are no countries\empires\monarchies that have existed that did not have the blood of someone on their hands.

All are born in violence.

I know that is not really your point, but many people act as though the US is the only nation to ever subjugate\enslave\mass murder other peoples during its history.

[H2O Man]

31. Perhaps you could

explain who exactly the Lenapi stole their land from? Perhaps even provide a source?

[Rebubula]

27. DUPE - Delete

DUPE

[whyverne]

28. Lenape Festival this weekend. Go ask them.

Just outside of Pittsburgh. http://www.thundermtlenape.org/festival

I'll be the white guy dancing in the turquoise ribbon shirt.
My people came from Poland in the 30s. I like Pow Wows better than polkas.

Shameless plug for this event.

[H2O Man]

30. I believe that

those people are of the Munsee-speaking branch of Lenape; those in the NYC area were of the Unami-speaking branch.

In the OP, reference is made to the Lenape as a "tribe." This is, of course, inaccurate: the Lenapi were a confederacy of tribes. In some ways, they were similar to their neighbors, the Iroquoian groups that were also banded in confederacies. The Lenapi were more like the Susquehannock and Wyandot ("Huron") in the sense of being more of a loose-knit confederacy than the Haudenosaunee, or Five (then Six) Nations Iroquois Confederacy.

[whyverne]

34. Sorry I've been busy getting ready for pow wow.

I just wanted to say that you are right. I meet mostly Munsees.