Crooksandliars: Ron Paul brings the awful truth to the Kool-Aid party (GOP debate)

[Greeby]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/15/ron-paul-vs-giuliani-on-the-root-causes-of-terrorism/

Talk about setting the cat among the pidgeons

[Eurobabe]

1. Hmm, he seems to make alot of sense, must not be a true CON

(I know he's a Libertarian)

[unlawflcombatnt]

4. Paul's Libertarianism-ness

Ron Paul is not of the same lunatic cloth as some Libertarians. He's against unrestricted free trade and has opposed 100% of all free trade agreements, as well as supporting WTO withdrawal. He also opposes illegal immigration, which most Libertarians support.

Paul is more of an independent populist than a Republican or Libertarian. And he's apparently captured the interest of a lot of Republicans, Independents, and even Democrats (such as myself.)

If he gets the Republican nomination, I'll vote for him over any of the Democrats running. He's the only candidate truly representing the American middle class and the American worker.

[Eurobabe]

7. I've watched him in the CON debates

and he does make sense. I don't like what free trade and illegal immigration have done to the US either.

[NashVegas]

12. You Might Want to Do a Little More Research

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm

[Captain Angry]

2. And that was a debate on Fox?

Other than the braindead applause for Giuliani, that means that a lot of the true believers heard something really important.

I can hope that 1% of their viewers saw that and at least decided to look something up.

The sooner people realize why things REALLY happen, the sooner we can get on to fixing the real problems.

[lapfog_1]

3. He was only partly right....

9/11 (if it wasn't an total inside job) didn't happen because we were in IRAQ. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. 9/11 happened because we were IN Saudi Arabia (the holy land).

When the mujahadeen were fighting the Soviets, we were certainly NOT OBL's sworn enemy. If anything, we were his uncomfortable ally. After that, in the lead up to the first Gulf War, Saddam (a SECULAR leader of an Arab nation) threatened the Saudis. OBL, as has been widely reported, tried to convince the Saudi Royal family to let his fighters defend the Holy Land (Mecca and Medina) from the infidel Saddam. The Saudis were no fools, they wanted the OIL FIELDS protected AND they didn't want OBL and his radicals to overthrow Saddam and bring chaos to the region... so they turned him down and asked the US to send troops and equipment... and we did, in vast amounts. But mostly Christian... and some WOMEN as well. And we built permanent bases in Saudi Arabia and put our airplanes and troops and tanks there (and then we kicked Saddam's ass). But it was those bases in the Holy Land (plus the "insult" at not being chosen by the House of Saud) that pissed off OBL and his fighters. Pissed them off so much that they chose to come here and attack us at home. Iraq had nothing to do with this other than if Saddam had decided to sue the Kuwaitis in the world court for their slant drilling oil wells into Iraq from the Kuwait border, none of this (Gulf War, 9/11, current war in Iraq and the GWOT) would have happened.

There are two reasons we are in Iraq today, one is the oil, the second is that the PNACers really WANT those "forward bases" for future military action. And, almost with no press, after 9/11 we have no bases in Saudi Arabia anymore. And while Kuwait and Qatar and similar are fine, larger and more strategic bases were desired, and Iraq would be perfect to dominate the entire region.

[frankenforpres]

5. you might want to check your facts

bin laden's fatwa:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html


"The youths hold you responsible for all of the killings and evictions of the Muslims and the violation of the sanctities, carried out by your Zionist brothers in Lebanon; you openly supplied them with arms and finance. More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void."

[lapfog_1]

10. His "fatwas" are mere AFTER THE FACT propaganda

much like his support (and fatwas) on the Palestinian problem.

And no, I don't need to "check my facts".

Even the fatwa you referenced here is titled "Declaration of War against
the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places." which is in reference
to the exact situation that I discussed, our "occupation" of the holy lands of Mecca
and Medina (the two holy places), not Iraq. Oh sure, after he decided that we were
really the evil empire (for occupying the holy lands), he had a whole host of complaints
about us (and Israel as well). But those were afterthoughts.

Here is the salient paragraphs from the fatwa you referenced:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From here, today we begin the work, talking and discussing the ways of correcting what had happened to the Islamic world in general, and the Land of the two Holy Places in particular. We wish to study the means that we could follow to return the situation to its' normal path. And to return to the people their own rights, particularly after the large damages and the great aggression on the life and the religion of the people. An injustice that had affected every section and group of the people; the civilians, military and security men, government officials and merchants, the young and the old people as well as schools and university students. Hundred of thousands of the unemployed graduates, who became the widest section of the society, were also affected.

Injustice had affected the people of the industry and agriculture. It affected the people of the rural and urban areas. And almost every body complain about something. The situation at the land of the two Holy places became like a huge volcano at the verge of eruption that would destroy the Kufr and the corruption and its' sources. The explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar is a warning of this volcanic eruption emerging as a result of the sever oppression, suffering, excessive iniquity, humiliation and poverty.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly he is referencing Saudi Arabia... the Land of the Two Holy Places (and our occupation of it), not Iraq or some other place. 9/11 was NOT blowback for the Gulf War or sanctions against Iraq. Period.

If he really felt that way about Iraq, why didn't he offer his services to defend Iraq against
the evil Christians either before or after the first Gulf War? Why wait until 5 years after the
defeat of Saddam and the advent of sanctions to complain about it in a "fatwa"?

[Swamp Rat]

6. Bwahahahahaha!!!! ........ Ron Paul BLEW THEIR MINDS!!!!

I am soooooo glad millions of republicans saw that!!! :bounce:

:kick:

[malaise]

8. I like Ron Paul

He's hte only Rethug I really like.

[mod mom]

9. Guiliani is such an ass trying to play up his failure on 9/11.

[loudsue]

11. Is there a UTube version of Ron Paul's speech during the debate?

For some reason, my computer doesn't like loading windows media or quick-time media players, but it will do whatever UTube tells it to do! :shrug: Go figure. I'm not computer-savvy enough to argue with it.

:kick: