Are the people of America being held hostage?

[kentuck]

By Wall Street, Big Business, and corporations?

Do they have the power to make the American people suffer if they do not get what they want? Would that not mean that they are in charge? It is not the President or the Congress - it is Wall Street and Big Business, including banks and corporations, that are calling the shots.

We are told they are sitting on $1.8 trillion dollars in assets but they are too "nervous and insecure" to create more jobs at this time. That may be true? But were they this frightened when the stock market was dropping toward the 6500 mark and they were losing trillions in value on the stock market? Were they really scared until they were bailed out by the same people that now need jobs. But there is too much uncertainty? We can't ask these folks to contribute.

[msongs]

1. being fed lies and deceit about Iraq - does that count as being held hostage? nt

[Angry Dragon]

2. They have enough power(money) to shift the markets

any way they wish. The have the money to destroy any country.
I heard it was $10 trillion.

They want tax cuts to stay but will not create jobs now, so are the republicans going to make them create jobs if the tax cuts stay??
It is time to break up Wall Street. They are no different than terrorists with guns and bombs.

[HughBeaumont]

13. They haven't created jobs in 10 years WITH them.

The TMTR is the lowest it's been in 75 YEARS.

[Angry Dragon]

17. I have no idea what TMTR means

[HughBeaumont]

18. Top Marginal Tax Rate.

[Angry Dragon]

20. Thank you

[RandomThoughts]

3. Sounds about right.

Hence why they are being taken down.

Although I don't suffer personally, I know there are many that suffer.

They are not in charge of what I do, I could do many things if I gave them charge over my life by doing what they want. People suffer if they keep them in charge, better to have nothing then join a group that thinks they deserve any respect or say in society while showing they are wrong.

The lack of resources I have is a choice because I will not accept what is not acceptable, and instead will either outlast them and watch them fall, or not.

Or they will correct the issues, it is proven they, in part, owe me, so why worry. All they can do is continue to prove they are unjust.

So I am in charge of them, because I now have shown they exist, and that I also make them prove they are unjust every day. And they do that real well, showing what they are. Note they prove it by there free will choice of actions.

Things are going pretty well.

The hard part is not being happy about watching there debt to me pile up. That doesn't seem right to be happy about that because of the ramifications.

[Anakin Skywalker]

4. "nervous and insecure"? The rightwing claims that these are bold, fearless "leaders"

F*ck 'em all! I have had it with corporatist lies. They ARE creating jobs, just not here in America. They are hiring overseas for pennies on the dollar.

[The Magistrate]

5. Pretty Much, Sir

The same thing was done in the last year or so of President carter's administration.

[kentuck]

8. I remember , Magistrate...

But I thought I was only paranoid...

So what should the Democrats do? Put up a challenger to Obama, like they did with Carter?

[The Magistrate]

9. Keep Our Nerve And Hang Together, Sir: That Is The Only Course

Mr. Kennedy made a very bad mistake by attacking President Carter, and that should not be repeated It only confuses people, and plays into the hand of the other side.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. So if you have the money to hire a minimum wage worker as a gardener...

or to clean your house,
or watch your kids,
are you holding America hostage?

If you don't hire a homeless person to clean your windshield with you last $5.00, are you holding American hostage?

[tkmorris]

12. You miss the point friend.

These are people who have within their power the ability to stall the entire US economy, or conversely to stimulate it. The question being asked is essentially not whether they are causing the economy to stagnate, but rather are they doing so for political rather than practical reasons. I cannot answer that with any certainty though I do believe that their actions are suspicious at best and downright childish at worst.

[Ozymanithrax]

16. If your goal is to return taxation levels back to 1955, I'm there...

But if you simply advocate making individuals or corporations spend there money for the benefit of society, because they might be doing something we don't' like, I'm opposed to that.

Yes, they, as a group, may be trying to stall the U.S. economy for political reasons. That is not against the law because no law requires them to spend money for the benefit of society. However, they may be reacting to the same, lackadaisical economy that those of us with lesser means are reacting to.

Consumer sentiment that drives the largest part of our economy is low, and consumers are just not spending. Are consumers withholding spending for political reasons? To quote you, "I cannot answer that with any certainty though I do believe that their actions are suspicious at best and downright childish at worst."

As a nation, our tax policies are skewed in the wrong direction. A return to real progressive taxation should be pursued because it will, ultimately, make a healthier nation.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. The OP states 'Wall Street, Big Business, and corporations'

So explain how you get 'a guy who hires a gardener' out of that. In English, the groups described do not include a person who can manage to hire household help on the cheap. To me, those who hire help for minimum wage are not even well off, they are hiring the cheapest help, not the best help.
Just can not see how what you are speaking of relates to the OP in any way at all. At all.

[Ozymanithrax]

26. There is nothing in our laws, in our Constitution that requires individuals...

or companies to spend money for the good of the nation. So if an individual or a corporation wants to hold on to their money, they have the right to do so. But if a Company is betraying Americans by holding on to money rather than spending it, then so are individuals who could hire a minimum wage worker or go out and buy duct tape.

I believe in progressive taxation, where individuals and corporations pay back in proportion to how they benefited simply by existing here. I think rolling back the level of taxes to 1955 would be good for this nation and even for companies. But they are not betraying the nation by holding on to money rather than hiring workers. If they could turn more profit, they are betraying their stockholders or owners.

What we need to to change our tax structure and tax companies and individuals who make huge amounts of money in proportion to the benefit. Inequality in income will always exist as long as their are individual rights. That inequality is part of liberalism's virtual DNA. We have equal individual rights, not equal income.

[The Magistrate]

27. In Other Words, Sir, You Support Our Government Taking This Money, And Spending It To Public Good

That is certainly the best way to accomplish the necessities.

But it remains a fact that the people presently in control of the bulk of our capital are using it in ways that damage most of the people of the country, and benefiting only themselvesT, and every reason to believe they are doing this to shape the political life of the country to a course that will aggrandize themselves further, at the greater expense of the rest. here is no reason save fear and incapacity for the mass of the people to put up with such behavior.

[Ozymanithrax]

29. As taxes owned by individuals and companies...yes. Congress can levy taxes for the public benefit.

And there is no law against corporations or individuals benefiting themselves at the cost of others, even for political purposes. I'm not claiming it is moral or ethical, only that it is legal and their right to do so. In the same way it is your right to use your money in any legal way. You may boycott these industries, refuse to spend money, which if you got enough people to act with you could crush a company and put up to hundreds of thousands of people out of work to the detriment of individuals and the nation. It is your right to do that, and on many of these corporations you could make an ethical and moral case that you are doing something good. My argument is that that are not betraying the nation when they refuse to hire people because the individuals running those corporations have the right to do that, even if what they do is morally or ethically reprehensible.

[The Magistrate]

31. You May Argue It, Sir, But You Are Wrong: They Betray the Nation By Their Actions

You agree the behavior is reprehensible, and ought to stand by the consequences of that.

There is no moral difference, and not much practical difference, between what these people are doing, and what a mugger or a protection racketeer does. The fact that the former behavior is legal and the latter not is simply an artifact of who pays for the laws to be written, rather than any testimony to a difference of character, in either the actions or the perpetrators.

[Ozymanithrax]

33. There is no law against it. It is not betrayal in law, or under the Cosntitution...

In this country, and in accordance with liberalism, we do not make shit up as we go along just because it feels right.

[The Magistrate]

34. You Seem, Sir, To Define A Liberal As a Man Who Will Not Take His Own Side In A Fight

Not much use, people like that, except perhaps to the other side, once the chips are down....

"Some men rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen.:

[instantkarma]

7. Yes. I think it's all about the tax cuts.

If the banks and corporations hold out on lending/creating jobs until the elections maybe they think the people will vote the old guard back in and thus, the Bush tax cuts would not be allowed to expire. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. I think they're "nervous and insecure" about their taxes being increased and they'll do whatever they can to stop that from happening.

[notesdev]

10. The crime isn't kidnapping

it's slavery.

We are being enslaved by obligatory debt and a horde of rent-seeking parasites.

[KT2000]

11. I honestly believe that Obama

knows that he has to play ball with Wall Street or they will destroy this country. Geithner and Summers are there to keep things in check.
These are sociopaths that are free to manipulate markets, move money and "call loans" whenever they desire.
They have picked the pockets of every souce of money except Social Security.
Wall Street/Banks and the defense industry have it sewn up.

The future economies are in China and India - not the US.

[rucky]

15. Yep. Their terms are pretty straightforward:

Give us cheap labor here, or we'll find it elsewhere.

[HughBeaumont]

14. I've been saying it for a few years now: Corporate America is Holding America Hostage.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/120

[kentuck]

21. If true, it must be changed.

That would mean we are a fascist nation.

In a capitalist society, corporations are not created solely for the enrichment of the owners and CEO's. They have a responsibility to their community, which supplies them labor, electricity, good roads, and cheap water. Sometimes they are openly subsidized with tax dollars.

This is such a scary thought. You will do as we say or we will move elsewhere. I say, let them move. We will not send the US military to protect their plants or resources and they cannot expect to bring their products back into the good ol' USA.

Which brings us to the gist of the problem. We need our Congress and Senate to do something about it. Unfortunately, the majority of them, yes, the majority, are in the pockets of these corporations and big businesses. They refuse to raise their taxes. They refuse to stop them from taking their jobs overseas. They actually subsidize and give them taxbreaks if they move their jobs.

The saddest part is that it doesn't matter if we change Parties. We could put in a huge majority in the Senate and the House and they are still beholden to their masters. What is the solution? Get a new government. Start completely over.

[Angry Dragon]

19. Corporations exist by the discretion of the governemnt

by extension that means by the people

Until the current situation is reversed and brought back to this, then this country is in peril

[kentuck]

22. The President warned of "corporate takeover" in his last speech...

With the decision by the Supreme Court to permit unlimited donations by corporations, isn't the mission fait accompli?

[Joe Fields]

24. Excuse me, but I thought it was common knowlege for anyone ...

that has been paying attention. What is happening has been going on for decades. What we are seeing now is just the end game coming to fruition.

[kentuck]

25. True.

Lack of vigilance and allowing ourselves to be manipulated by partisan lies and deceit have gotten us to this point.

[Barack2theFuture]

28. capitalism is an extortion racket;

by extension so is party politics.

Who cares if it's the DeGambinos or the Racketinis--it's a mafia shakedown, whoever you are.

[Uncle Joe]

30. That's the true meaning behind "too big to fail."

Thanks for the thread, kentuck.

[mdmc]

32. always

[mwb970]

35. The greedy have enlisted the dumb, the fearful, and the hateful to push their agenda.

Of course, the dumb, the fearful, and the hateful are mentally unable to realize they are being manipulated and used to fight against their own interests and those of their families. The rantings of vile right-wing wackos and idiotic teabagging nutjobs dominate our political "discourse". The lies on False "News" gets these dopy yokels all fired up with misguided fear and rage. They are such easy marks!

America is being held hostage by its least educated, least informed citizens.

[The Magistrate]

36. And They Come Damned Cheap, Sir

"Truth cannot be imparted; it must be inflicted."