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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:58 PM
Original message
In Case You Actually Want To Read What Ron Paul Wrote...
Because I'm finding a lot to agree with in this...

Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots: Stop Your Demagogy About The NYC Mosque!
By RonPaul.com on August 20, 2010


Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.


Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.


The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.


Link: http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-paul-sunshine-patriots-stop-your-demagogy-about-the-nyc-mosque/

:shrug:

:kick:


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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Americans have this big problem
We as individuals follow the lead of political interests and pundits like puppets on a string instead of leading and deciding on our own what it is that is important to us. When we decide the Parties and pundits must follow our lead.

The best thing that could happen to the USA is to separate Party elitist interests from our own interests.

There is a day of reckoning coming where traditional political ideological values will be thrown out the window because they only help politicians and do little for the people.

When it comes to 9-11 are you convinced that we Americans know the truth about who it was that planned it, executed it, and benefited from it?
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whatever else he is, does, think and feel - in this instance, he at least is consistant.
If I take only the highlighted text, without knowing anything else, I support that viewpoint.

Scary, or reassuring?
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm in his district.... he is right on some things...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 08:31 PM by Lisa0825
Have you ever read "Neo-Conned"? Excellent speech.

He was against the Iraq war. He was against letting foreign companies manage our ports. And he is actually pretty responsive when I contact his office on occasion.

All that being said, I disagree with him about 85% of the time, and included in that is some batshit crazy stuff.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I Disagree With Him Most Of The Time Too...
But I will give credit, when credit is due.

Plus... anybody who regularly pisses off the Republican Establishment (whatever THAT is these days), can't be all bad!

:evilgrin:

:hi:
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yep, that is what I like best about him!
He speaks out about it too! But then, he isn't really a Republican, but a Texas Libertarian... only ran as an 'R' because he had to in order to win in Texas. So he really doesn't have a lot of loyalty to the rethugs. I think he enjoys pissing them off now and then.
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Ted_White Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have always liked Ron Paul's stance on civil liberties, as well as foreign policy
Its just some of his economic policies that I show some concern over.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. He's spot on re: civil liberties
He's just a naive buffoon when it comes to economic policy.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. ... abortion rights ... gay rights... racism.... he is wrong on a lot aside from economics. nt
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah I could have phrased that better
He's right on the civil rights aspect of this issue. In the quest for brevity when I'm posting from my iPhone my meaning gets a little lost. :crazy:
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. According to Ron Paul people shouldn't hate Muslims.
They should hate minorities, women, and poor people.

Just because he happens to agree with us on one issue doesn't mean he deserves any respect whatsoever.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. So What Do You Suggest ???
Ignore it, censor it, pop-up-blocker it???

Nobody was suggesting he be respected, but those of us open to various views being aired on a political discussion board might want the respect WE DESERVE when we want to read the actual words\essays that people are talking about across the net. I've seen several threads where it was OBVIOUS they hadn't read the piece, didn't intend to, yet were inveighing heavily as to their feelings of Ron Paul and why we shouldn't bother with any of it.

Great... who cares... I still want to READ THE PIECE FOR MYSELF!!!

Sorry if I'm coming off mad at you, I'm not. I just would like the right to read and judge for myself, thank you very much.

:shrug:

:hi:
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Fair enough.
On re-reading what I said, it was a bit dickish towards you without meaning to be. So I apologize for that.

The very badly made point that I was shooting for was that the real danger of people like Paul is that they can come across as reasonable on some issues. The problem is that they're absolutely unreasonable on a whole lot of others, most of which they generally won't talk about, and if they do they'll use dog whistles.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick.
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