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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:45 PM
Original message
Kristol: Obama Not A Muslim
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/08/23/kristol-obama-not-a-muslim/?xid=rss-topstories

Posted by Joe Klein Monday, August 23, 2010 at 4:02 pm
74 Comments

Well, it's good to learn that there are limits to Bill Kristol's tactical skeevery. He clearly states here that Barack Obama is not a Muslim. No winks, no nods, no gratuitous McConnellesque "If he says he's not, that's okay with me." But read the editorial all the way through and you get to this paragraph:

It's similar with the Community Center Formerly Known as the Ground Zero Mosque. Today's progressives are multiculturalists. They're inclined to make grand claims about the positive merits of a multicultural, non-judgmental mosaic replacing our old, uniculturalist melting-pot view of America. But when political realities force them to retreat, as Obama has done in the mosque controversy, from a proud multiculturalism to a narrow defense of the right to the free exercise of religion and the right to build on private property, they're in trouble. The free exercise of religion and respect for private property are not a promising agenda for progressives

Say what? Is Kristol actually admitting that his crowd, including his aspirational hand-puppet Sarah Palin, have been arguing against the conservative themes of the "free exercise of religion and respect for private property?" Of course, the idea that the mosque debate can be simplified into a Manichean, liberal versus conservative, multiculturalist v. uniculturalist standoff is the sort of cheap campaign demagoguery that has become Kristol's sole intellectual product. There are plenty of us who support both the mosque and melting pot uniculturalism (I'm certainly one of those). And I dare say that there are more than a few honorable conservatives who support the Islamic center because they believe in freedom of religion and private property (and more than a few not so honorable liberals and moderates who oppose the center for reasons of their own). This was never about multiculturalism, never about bilingualism or political correctness. It was always about one thing: the Constitution, a document that is proving to be inconvenient for populist wingnuts in many areas.

The cynical desecration of traditional conservative principles is a hallmark of the damage that people like Kristol have done to American political discourse and to a philosophical movement that, in its best, most sophisticated--and yes, ultimately, elitist--form, has plenty of value to contribute to our current policy discussions. Here are some conservative principles I admire: Foreign policy realism, budget discipline and a belief in (carefully regulated) markets as the best vehicles for delivering prosperity and even some forms of government services. The best conservatism has a healthy respect for complexity and a deep skepticism about the perfectability of human nature. Kristol's superficial cant is somewhat different: it combines a deep addiction to oversimplification with an even deeper cynicism about the exploitability of human nature. This brand of radicalism--bellicose crusades abroad, riotous tax-cutting and cronyism at home and a mean-spirited nativist populism--has been a sad but witting perversion of a valuable tradition.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even if he was.....who cares?
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 08:53 PM by Cali_Democrat
I mean seriously. Since when did all 1 billion Muslims become bad people? Where in the Constitution is it even written that a Muslim should be disqualified from being President? Where is it written that mosques can only be built in certain locations?

I'm getting so sick and tired of the bigoted bullshit.

This country is a joke.

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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Amen to that!
:toast:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. are you sure billy boy? if he was it's none of your fucking business.
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BlueCheese Donating Member (897 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. What's wrong with saying...
"He says he's not, and I believe him."?

How else can you know someone's religious beliefs, besides what he or she says they are?

But yes, this entire issue is beyond tired.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's mighty "Christian" of him... Oh, wait he isn't Christian, but it is mostly these
"Christians" in name only who are questioning it

The most outrageous thing, other than this lie is being propagated with the help of the MSM, is that the implication is that if he was a Muslim that would be a bad thing

Shame on the so-called media in this country. They are suppossed to REPORT facts, not encourage misrepresentation and prejudice


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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. One of the facts they are leaving out is that the President lived with his grandparents.
I don't think they were Muslim.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You are correct /nt
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Breaking: Man Who Is Constantly Wrong About Everything Gets Something Right
I can see why this is a news story.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Your wit and the Top Ten are sorely missed!
I hope that you are enjoying your time with the little one.
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why do I feel like I am wrong for just not caring what his religion is?
Since when has that been an important part of being president?
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. It is truly ironic that this country prides itself on religious freedom ...
and then insists on knowing "what" religion. And if that religion happens not to be the "right" religion, then uh-oh.

One area where I would actually support a "Don't ask, don't tell," policy is in the area of religion. What does it matter anyway? Religious practices and affiliations do not necessarily make a person good; we've all seen that with our own eyes. Many good persons are not religious at all. We can tell whether or not people are decent human beings from their words and actions. Their religious affiliations certainly do not guarantee their conduct in any way.

Right now, the acts of far too many who are "in-your-face Christians" are simply unacceptable. Jesus wept, indeed.

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