Scary, ugly scene in New York

[marmar]

from AlterNet:




Posted by Joshua Holland at 8:54 am
August 23, 2010

Updated: Black Man Who Looked Vaguely “Muslimish” Accosted at NY Anti-Islam Protest
Posted by Joshua Holland on @ 8:54 am


Max Blumenthal flagged this video, in which a man whom John Cole described as having made “the mistake of looking Muslimish” at a protest against the NY Islamic center is surrounded, harrassed and nearly assaulted.

Watch: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/08/23/black-man-who-looked-vaguely-muslimish-accosted-at-ny-anti-islam-protest/


I think that a devout Muslim who supports the Park 51 project would be perfectly safe at one of these events as long as he or she were lily-white. But if you’re brownish, or your appearance falls anywhere outside of the mainstream, I’d give these mobs wide berth.

Recall this incident from a similar protest in June:

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.

“Go home,” several shouted from the crowd.

“Get out,” others shouted.

In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque.

“I’m a Christian,” Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.

But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.

These people are profoundly misinformed about Islam. Their views of the Other have been distorted by cheap demagogues like those I highlight on the front page today. They are a classically irrational, angry mob whipped into a frenzy with images of a dark alien presence — a fifth column, a cancer — eating away at America from within.

This is how Kristallnacht was possible, folks, make no mistake about it. ..............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/08/23/black-man-who-looked-vaguely-muslimish-accosted-at-ny-anti-islam-protest/

[Zoeisright]

1. Nothing uglier than an ignorant mob.

And that's all those teabagger, racist idiots are now - a mob.

[Enthusiast]

189. Ignorant is the key word here. nt

[Solomon]

194. No, racist iss the key word.

[Towlie]

196. But he was out of uniform! He should have been wearing one of those vampire stoppers around his neck

[Tesha]

2. Maybe now these two will understand why so many of us support the right...

...of folks to build Park 51.

Maybe they won't be protesting it from here in out.

Tesha

[butterfly77]

55. They don't care ..

anytime they see a muslim,arab or pakistani,african,Jamaican or anyone who looks like they are from the middle east they will call them un american and claim they are the terrorists. Did they just relate this too 911 because they were brainwashed during the bush years..It doesn't matter where they put it.

[nc4bo]

3. The same types who shouted "Kill him" during Palin/Mccain rallies.

In fact, the GOP encouraged and embraced these people and their irrational, hate filled mob mentality.

Guess what? Nothing's changed.

[calimary]

123. That's why they're called Hatriots.

Hatriots - with a long A in the first syllable.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marmar]

5. So it's the planned community center's fault that these people are idiots?

nt

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinboy3niner]

45. No, actually, it wasn't predictable

Early on, hardly anyone even paid it any notice at all. It even sounded like a good idea to Laura Ingraham, subbing for O'Reilly on FNC back in December:

"I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," Ingraham says of the Cordoba project, adding at the end of the interview, "I like what you're trying to do."

An examination of the story's development by Salon found:

In short, there is no good reason that the Cordoba House project should have been a major national news story, let alone controversy. And yet it has become just that, dominating the political conversation for weeks and prompting such a backlash that, according to a new poll, nearly 7 in 10 Americans now say they oppose the project. How did the Cordoba House become so toxic, so fast?

In a story last week, the New York Times, which framed the project in a largely positive, noncontroversial light last December, argued that it was cursed from the start by "public relations missteps." But this isn't accurate. To a remarkable extent, a Salon review of the origins of the story found, the controversy was kicked up and driven by Pamela Geller, a right-wing, viciously anti-Muslim, conspiracy-mongering blogger, whose sinister portrayal of the project was embraced by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post.

More (w/ timeline):
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins

[newspeak]

70. I wonder if Murdoch and his ilk, laugh at the way they can sway the people

How they can influence people to act like fekkin ignorant idiots. All they have to do is make "much ado about nothing", and create a controversy out of a fabrication or something inane. Some people will eat it up and start acting like frothing mad dogs. So much power, to sway a group of people to act like rabid frightened animals. Kind of reminds me of Julian Streicher.

[harun]

I not only think they laugh, I think the driving force of ego-maniac's like Limbaugh, Beck

and Murdoch is that they can influence people to do this nonsense. I think it is more important to them than specific ideologies.

[Steely_Dan]

91. I Hate To Say This...

But the fact that President Obama took a principled stand and then "appeared" to back off of that stand did not help this situation.

-P

[RetroLounge]

172. What's shocking is how bigots get to keep arguing for their bigotry

on DU when every person reading this thread knows they are bigots.

You disgust me...

:puke:

RL

[dionysus]

8. by all means, let's appease hateful RW bigots.

:puke:

[dkf]

18. We appeased Bin Laden by getting out of Saudi Arabia.

That was probably a good idea too.

[dionysus]

24. if it's okay to let RWers bully muslims, what other groups is it okay to be bigoted against? where

does it stop?

[newspeak]

77. it's those damn brown people

I believe "mexicans" are also being targeted. Spread that hate around so you can deflect the blame from some of the real culprits of our economic woes. I mean Guthrie wrote "Deportee" because the same scapegoating was going on while the wealthy robber barons were already funneling money to fascists like Franco and Mussolini.

[sabrina 1]

155. It would have been a better idea never to have been there in the

first place. If we could stay out of other people's countries we might never have heard of Osama Bin Laden in the first place, except maybe in the Social Columns where he might have been found at a cocktail party thrown by his family friends the Bushes.

Everything has consequences so it's no use whining about them when they occur if you didn't think ahead before taking the very actions that result in those consequences. We do not belong in the ME.

[DUFan]

10. The people behind Park51 are not the aggressors.

The teachable moment may be that this is the result of listening to Beck and Palin. They have been pushing and inciting this hatred for two years and we are now seeing the result. If this community center is not built, the bigots win. Then, emboldened, they will move on to the next group that they hate.

[dkf]

17. They could have been the saviors.

They decided that was less important. So be it.

[DUFan]

27. I don't understand

Saviors of what?

[dkf]

89. If they had moved it they could have been a symbol of understanding.

They could have gotten assistance for their funding. It would have been a win win situation. Now we have this mess.

[MadBadger]

120. Symbol of understanding bigots?

Yea, that gets you far

[GoneOffShore]

139. Wouldn't have mattered where it is.

The wingnuts and the racists would find a way to object.

Those opposing the center are the new "Know Nothings". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

[frylock]

146. the racist assholes are protesting a proposed mosque here in temecula, ca..

nowhere even close to the shadow of the shadow of the WTC. they could put it on the moon and people would still protest.

[left is right]

152. "They could have moved"

As I understand it, the building/land was a gift. Once a gift is accepted, it becomes the property of the acceptee. Did any of these hatriots offer to buy back the land and building? Did anyone offer to trade a different but equal property for Park 51.
What about the Islamic Senior citizens/children that would use the community center upon completion? It is likely, that the site was chosen because it was convenient for the very people that would use it. Did any of the hatriots offer to provide transportation for these people that might have been able to walk to the site?

[TheKentuckian]

159. That's why the bigots are blocking a mosque here too, I reckon.

All over the country from New York Island to the Redwood Forrest and some insist that there is nothing to see here.

Just some concerned good Americans.

[JerseygirlCT]

168. Understanding of what? Bigotry? Ignorance? Blind hatred? nt

[shellgame26]

169. Really?

Then how do you explain Murfeesboro Tenn.?

[lunasun]

206. I assume you just missed the sarcasm thingy on you post by mistake...........ugh

[blogslut]

14. I hope you save some of that blame for the wingnut pundits and politicians

...who are exploiting this community center as a wedge issue.

[dkf]

16. Both things were completely predictable.

Who is acting out of character? No one really. The way this is unfolding is so typical.

[seabeyond]

23. black should have just sat down and stfu. women should have stayed in kitchen and stfu

so we would not have your "predictability".

[dkf]

26. Blacks achieved freedom of movement, women get to vote

Muslims get a building. But hey whatever floats your boat.

[seabeyond]

28. wow, way to dishonesty interpret the issue. muslims get the right to practice religion, but wtf. nt

[dkf]

29. You all said they have a mosque two blocks away from this one.

Who was preventing them from practicing their religion?

[seabeyond]

30. they were settle and could not be kicked out and not a good enough wedge issue.

that mosque alone tells you the non issue this is. this is created and you embrace for your own personal reasons. so, if they found a building FOUR blocks away, that is ok with you all? people are now demanding NO mosque on u.s. soil

yet you refuse to see the reality of the issue

[seabeyond]

32. let me ask, why it is not simpler for you anti mosque people to educate yourself that this form of

religion has NOTHING to do with what happened with 911 and that it is attack by those very people that flew into the buildings.

is it so fuckin hard to educate yourself on the realities presented to you?

[dkf]

34. Hell I say if you want to prove this religious freedom for Muslims point you need a mosque ON ground

Zero. The argument that it is two blocks away now makes it only acceptable two blocks away but not on the grounds itself. If we want to make this an international example you all have invalidated the original purpose which was to connect that location to the 9/11 attack with the idea of Islam as the healer. Who is clueless here?

[seabeyond]

35. again, stupid argument. is there an available empty building zoned for business up for sale on the

tower site?

you are making, creating an argument this is about 911 site. it isnt. that is the WHOLE point.

what it does show is your unwillingness to allow any kind of healing and i have to wonder about your refusal. such a dogmatic stance on hate.

[dkf]

37. The Imam said that is why the site was chosen specifically for it's 9/11 connection.

Have you been reading anything? Geez Louise. And Ground Zero is still a hole in the ground. You can still do whatever

Per wikipedia:

"The specific location of the planned facility, "where a piece of the wreckage fell," so close to the World Trade Center, was a primary selling point for the Muslims who bought the building.<45> Rauf said it "sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11" and "We want to push back against the extremists."<45>"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51?wasRedirected=true

[seabeyond]

40. no, you still cannot do whatever. that area is allotted for a project.

and again i say... so what. if you are the least educated you know this religion is nothing to do with what happened on 911. maericans have been yelling for ten years for the muslims to stand up and renounce those extremist. they do, you cry. no.... want to hate them all

i can't stand bigotry. i cant stand people that dress it up to make it look pretty.

hate, is hate.

says everything about the hater, .... nothing about those you hate.

[dkf]

42. Personally I think 9/11 was about getting the US out of the holy land of Saudi Arabia.

I say get out of Afghanistan and let the Taliban rule if they so desire as long as they don't harbor Bin Laden. I don't care much if Iran gets the bomb either. So much for hating Muslims huh? I just look at the miscalculation of this Imam and it seems like PR malpractice to me. From a results point of view this project is a big huge FAIL.

[seabeyond]

44. not that you would leave out the equation of foxs news promoting the hate and wedge issue

but hey, to bring that in, one would have to be balanced.

[dkf]

54. What else do you expect from them?

That was part of the huge miscalculation. The smart thing to do would have been to reach out to the 9/11 families first. Inform them how Sufism differs from Wahhabism, allay their fears, make them comfortable, make them part of the solution. Once you have established that first level and can say you have the support of most of the families, then you move on to others. Park51 wasn't an effort to exercise Muslim right to worship. It was supposed to be a peace bridge to understanding.

When Hillary Clinton started debating Obama on the need for preparation before you meet I did not understand that concept. Nor did I understand that churches also have to do outreach to the communities before they move in. But part of the advice that even Christian chuches get is to have a clause giving the church an out of the property if they are not able to get zoning due to public outcry. Even they understand that it is not the lawyers and Government officials that approve the Church but it is the community. That part is achieved by talking, praying, patience, and understanding.

[seabeyond]

56. there was no issue. they were welcomed. no reason to be doing shit cause all appearance

the center was embraced. the rw and palin and fox made it something and people, people like you jumped on.

you are telling the center to address issues that were NOT there.

[dkf]

60. They never went to the 9/11 families. That is THE problem.

[seabeyond]

65. they were welcomed by fox. they were welcomed by u.s. govt. they were welcomed by

nyc. they were welcomed by the other religions. they were welcomed by fox ownership. in their heart, they know they are doing good.

and your whole bigoted response is they did not talk to every member of those who lost loved ones in 911 to see if they would be welcomed. and how would they have done that? called each on the phone? all over 3000 victims and the extended members and friends of loved ones?

do you know the percentage of loved ones that are opposed?
do you know the percentage of loved ones that think this is a good thing?

that is not, was not the issue. you are being purposely stupid holding this one thing up as the fault of the center.

stupid in bigotry is done purposely to hate. because you could not have this hate, unless you blindly created it.... purposely, with intent

i cant do stupid. i cant do hate. i cant do bigots.

[dkf]

82. Overlooking the people who were most affected by 9/11 is not smart.

And because they were being embraced by the movers and the shakers they forgot who was most affected by this tragedy. It was a huge oversight. The families didn't count as people the Imam and his group consulted with. They were not significant enough in his eyes.

[seabeyond]

84. you cleverly, conveniently miss the whole point in order to keep your one piece alive

again, it is a dishonest discussion.

you DEMAND, BLAME, the center for not being all things, and going beyond what is possible as you refuse to see the obvious.

[dkf]

86. They are the ones putting in the center. It was their burden to properly prepare everyone.

Unless they don't care about community opinion or outcry. Then you get what we have now.

[seabeyond]

87. keep on fine tuning your incorrect problem. kinda just what the rw does to create their mess, hate

wedge issue for a mere vote.

there reason your argument does not fly from any angle, any perception is because it is wrong. it is that simple. when a person tries to argue for the ugly, tries to argue for ahte and fear, tries to argue for the lowest that we are, inevitably they lose.

[dkf]

92. The reason it does not fly for you is you can't see beyond "it's my right".

Try that one the next time we have a discussion on concealed weapons.

[seabeyond]

93. you are wrong. nt

[Alameda]

178. it was fine until Pam Geller fanned the flames of hatred

[wtmusic]

88. How far away would the center have to be to skip the consultation process?

This is insane. People in the area overwhelmingly support the center. Do we have to round up everyone personally affected across the country and take a vote? Even 9/11 family support has been mixed from the start:

Sue Rosenblum, of Coral Springs, Florida, whose son Josh was killed in the WTC attacks on 9/11, said in reference to the planned Mosque: "What are we teaching if we say you can't build here? That it's OK to hate? This is a country based on freedom of religion."

[dkf]

90. The point IS the consultation process. How do you create peace by avoiding dialogue?

Does that make any sense?

[pinboy3niner]

99. That's ABSOLUTE BS!

Park51 leaders have been working with Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a group representing 250 9/11 families, for years.

The freeper meme that there's been "no consultation" is false, yet you continue to try to promote this propaganda here.

That's just shameful!

[wtmusic]

106. Not initiating dialogue is not the same as avoiding it.

Again: how far would the center have to be from Ground Zero before you would entitle the planners to skip consulting 9/11 families?

Some 9/11 families support the center. How would you decide which input to consider?

[dkf]

100. 90. The point IS the consultation process. How do you create peace by avoiding dialogue?

Oops responded to wrong post earlier.

And Im not the original person who said the process was done wrong. I think it was Richard Haas who pointed it out.

[beam me up scottie]

98. Bullshit. American muslims are just as American as 911 victims, they don't need special permission.

It's not their responsibility to convince bigots that they deserve the same rights as every other citizen.

I think you're the one that needs to get over it instead of advocating bigotry under the guise of "concern" for 911 victims' families, who, btw, include muslims.

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that this same mob scene is being played out all over the country and all of the anti-muslim bigots are using the same dog whistle language you're shilling.

Apparently Murfreesboro, Tennessee still isn't far enough from "Ground Zero" for you and your kind.

[Dorian Gray]

130. 100% right

[shellgame26]

174. Well said

Goes to show, everyone is affected by poisonous hate-filled propaganda, not only the RW.

[Hansel]

132. Delete nt

[liberalhistorian]

137. What utter and complete horseshit.

Does that include the families of the American Muslims (including some first responders) who died on 9/11? Or do only the white Christian and Jewish victims count as "real" victims in your eyes ('cause that's the way it seems too many Americans feel at this time).

Surprise: The 9/11 families are NOT homogenous, they do not all think alike. Who the hell are you to speak for them? Do you know how each and every one feels? And is every single builder who wants to do anything anywhere near Ground Zero supposed to check in with each and every single family member of the 3,000 victims? What horseshit. Your ire would be best directed at the RW wingnuts who've perpetuated ignorant lies and misinformation and who've whipped up the frenzy for their own nefarious purposes.

[uppityperson]

119. Oh bullshit. Here's proof otherwise.

Edited to add this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51#9.2F11_families_2

/11 families
Some relatives of victims of the 9/11 attacks expressed support for the project.
Colleen Kelley, who lost her brother William on 9/11, says, the "irony in the debate over the section of the building that would house a mosque is that one might assume that God (the same God to Jews-Christians-Muslims) would be pleased with any type of effort that involves prayer and service to others."<218>
Orlando Rodriguez and Phyllis Schaefer Rodriguez, whose son died in the attack, say they "support the building of the Islamic community center in lower Manhattan" and "feel that it would honor our son and other victims".<219>
Herb Ouida, whose son Todd died, said: "To say that we're going to condemn a religion and castigate a billion people in the world because they're Muslims, to say that they shouldn't have the ability to pray near the World Trade Center—I don't think that's going to bring people together and cross the divide."<135>
Marvin Bethea, a former EMS worker who was forced to retire in 2004 because of breathing problems caused by working at the 9/11 site, believes racism is a factor in the controversy, He said "even though my life has changed, I don't hate the Muslims. Especially being a black man, I know what it's like to be discriminated against. I've lived with that."<135>
Donna O'Connor, whose pregnant daughter died on 9/11, expressed the opinion that "This building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans ... recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent."<220>
Ted Olson, former Solicitor General in the George W. Bush administration, whose wife, television commentator Barbara Olson, died on 9/11 in the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, has expressed support for the rights of the Park51 organizers to construct the new site. In remarks on MSNBC, Olson said "we don't want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith."<221><222>
Bruce Wallace, whose nephew died as he rushed in to help the victims, says "the media seems eager to trumpet the feelings of those hurt by the idea of the center. They mostly ignore my feelings and those, like me, who feel the center is an important step for Americans."<223>
Judith Keane, whose husband died was killed on 9/11, says "To punish a group of Americans who live in peace for the acts of a few is wrong. The worst atrocities in history found their base in fear of those who were different."<224>
Talat Hamdani, a Muslim whose son, also a muslim, was a first responder in the rescue effort and died in 9/11, co-wrote an article supporting the center in the interest of pluralism <133>. She has also criticized the argument about sensitivity arguing that it was more about the legality of the situation and "our rights as Americans. We are protected under the Constitution. There is freedom of religion." Implying that the ban could be the thin edge of the wedge she said "You know, if it’s one faith today, it’s going to be another faith tomorrow. That is scary. And to scapegoat the Muslims for the acts of a foreign terrorist, that is — that is hatred." She went on "... if that argument is valid, then, by that token, Timothy McVeigh’s actions also makes all Christians terrorists. So, that is wrong."<225>
The anti-war group September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, released a statement in support of the center, saying "we believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all," adding it will be "an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans stand against violence, intolerance, and overt acts of racism and that we recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent".<226><137>
Terry Rockefeller, whose sister was killed, said: "this doesn't insult her at all. This celebrates the city she loved living in. It is what makes America what we are."<137>
Sue Rosenblum, of Coral Springs, Florida, whose son Josh was killed in the WTC attacks on 9/11, said in reference to the planned Mosque: "What are we teaching if we say you can't build here? That it's OK to hate? This is a country based on freedom of religion."<227>

[pinboy3niner]

124. Thanks for that link. Also...

...from Daisy Khan's appearance with Christiane Amanpour on "This Week":

KHAN: Well, we have already been in touch with 9/11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows. So, they represent 250 families. We've been working with them since 9/11.

Transcript:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-karzai-khan-levitt/story?id=11454631&page=2

[uppityperson]

125. Thanks for that also. I am so tired of the throwing out of emotional crap and then no reply after

facts are posted. At least that one isn't writing "on hallowed ground" anymore.

[Hansel]

131. The 9/11 families? You act like it is a monolithic group.

It's not. There are plenty of non-Muslim 911 families who are offended by people who are taking the stand that it shouldn't be built there.

[eilen]

175. I'm one of them.

My cousin was killed by a man named Muhammed Atta who was a terrorist who happened to be a communicant in a radical violent Muslim sect known as Wahabism. He and his co-conspirators crashed the plane she was working on into the first tower. She left two children and their father as well has her parents and extended family.

Many things about this event piss me off. The fact that thousands more have died overseas fueled by the grief and anger of the electorate is a big one. Another thing that pisses me off 10 years later is that they have not rebuilt the tower.

As for building a church/temple/mosque in the general area, I think people have that right under the constitution and our private property laws. They passed what they needed to for zoning ordinances. It will be good to have more work/construction in the area. The people protesting it are wrong, and are very bigoted. So concerned about the funding!? Seriously? In NYC? NYC has had more places built, knocked down, built over again etc. It is a living ever-changing cityscape. I wish so many came to protest the sell-out of Coney Island into privately developed condos. There's a historic "People's" place that could have used some support. Mostly, I am annoyed because the rhetoric was amplified by some Republican politicians in NY (Paladino and Lazio) that desperately wanted someone to pay attention to them in a craven attempt at relevancy.

It would be nice if there was an ecumenical center in the area for all faiths to come together, worship and build bridges of understanding-- kind of like a UN of spirituality. These faiths are more alike than they are different.

[BrklynLiberal]

183. wrong place.

[BrklynLiberal]

184. Thanks for that very eloquent post.

[JerseygirlCT]

170. Ridiculous

Just what amount of space in downtown Manhattan should the families have veto power over the development of? How many blocks do we cede to their veto? Are any sort of building projects not subject to their ok?

[shellgame26]

173. WTF?

Why do you think they have to do that?

[uppityperson]

118. And we REALLY appreciate your continuing to spread that nasty talk.

And here are the rest of us, talking to people about this, informing them of the facts, stupidly trying to promote peace. You are SUCH a valued DU member for continuing to speak out, to go against the flow, to post over and over and over how the Cordoba House community center is a Mosque on Hallowed Ground and if ONLY they'd given in to those bigots the Situation Could Have Been Saved.

[Dorian Gray]

127. You can't do "whatever"

on the Ground Zero site because it's taken 9 years to get cranes there and city permits to start the building. It's one of the most shameful things in NYC that that hole still exists.

But, once the new tower is built... if a Muslim group wants to rent space in it and build a mosque.... cool. Why would that be a problem if they can obtain the proper permits from the city?

[uppityperson]

129. "You can still do whatever" on the WTC site? No, you can't. Have you been reading anything?

[wtmusic]

85. Agree 100%.

Suggesting anything less is putting part of the blame for 9/11 on Islam, and catering to prejudice.

Of course, an action like that would require courage the American public may never have.

[dkf]

94. That is another thing that gets me. The utter hypocrisy of saying the Mosque is okay because the

Site is actually 2 blocks away from ground zero. If a Mosque is okay then it should be even more ok on the WTC site itself. Yet we hear everyone going on about " the lie that it's ground zero when it is two blocks away." Give me a break.

[beam me up scottie]

102. The lie that they're desecrating "hallowed Ground Zero" is dog whistle for bigots.

Keep blowing.

[dkf]

109. So it would be a desecration to build a mosque there? See where this argument goes?

[beam me up scottie]

112. Keep blowing.

[Dorian Gray]

133. Dude...

BMUS said no such thing. There is no desecration of anything happening.

The only people who think it would be a desecration to build a mosque are those who are bigoted against Muslims. For whatever reasons.

As for building a mosque on Ground Zero... there is already a building be built there. It only took 9 years for plans and city approval, but it's there. If a religious group wants to rent some space and applies for the proper permits from NYC, then go for it.

Until then, this is what they were approved for.

[dkf]

138. "desecration" is what happens to "hallowed ground"

I just think that this is now an international issue and if we are going to piss off 9/11 families anyway we might as well go whole hog and earn some international Islamic cred. This isn't a half measure type issue.

[CLANG]

149. "desecration" and "hallowed" ground

Are primarily religious terms. Is it OK to build a church there, but not a mosque? I bet you think so...

[Dorian Gray]

163. There are quite a few

families who lost loved ones on 9-11 who support the Cordoba House's right to exist.

Either way, the fight for civil liberties often goes against the popular opinion. What's right is right, and the threat to take away people's right of assembly when they've been approved by the city and afforded the proper permits is seriously problematic. Especially because it's based upon people's feeling. Laws are not based upon feelings, and as understandable (psychologically) as it is for some people to be mistrustful of Islam after the attacks on 9-11, it doesn't make those feeling right, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should change our system in any way to reflect those feelings.

[seabeyond]

165. as olsen says.... the constitution is not up for popular vote. i love that. nt

[Chan790]

185. I don't care where they build it.

Much like I don't give a flying donut fuck about the feelings of bigots or cynics in search of a wedge issue.

Regarding the feelings of the families of victims, opposed to this cultural center: These are not the people who attacked us and killed your loved ones. They don't owe you an explanation, an apology or any concession. If they cannot grasp something that clear and simple, they've invalidated any sympathy I might have had for them on this issue.

There is no legitimate non-bigoted position in opposition to this project based in reality.

[verges]

136. The argument is that is on GZ.

Refuting an argument with a fact is hardly hypocrisy.

[AllTooEasy]

156. It would be okay on ground zero. Satisfied?!

[JerseygirlCT]

171. And the retail development planned for the actual site of

the towers... there's no problem there, right? That's not to be treated as "sacred ground"?

I don't care if this congregation had bought property 2 blocks or no blocks away. Doesn't change a thing. There's no problem with them building this, period.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

50. doesnt scare me much. does disgust me. nt

[newspeak]

75. what scares me is the violence of a mob.

Germany had mobs and attacked people--people who were jewish or defended jews.

[seabeyond]

111. agreed. yes. a black man walks thru a crowd and the willingness and eagerness

to take their hate out on him.

[Karenina]

143. Two Coptic X-tains there to PROTEST Park51

were overheard speaking Arabic and needed a police escort out of the crowd. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Where did I see that? (senior moment) :freak: I'll post the link if I can find it again.

Correction: That incident was a precursor from early June.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8510738

[seabeyond]

52. well, on thought, i guess it is scary in that these people create an ugliness for all of us to live.

gotcha.

[LostinVA]

68. Right, that's exactly what I meant

[dkf]

62. You won't stop true discussion by screaming Bigot!

I'm so tired of that word being used to shut people up. Being a minority in every way possible gives me the freedom to think for myself and not be inflicted with white male Protestant guilt.

Too many are doctrinaire liberals unable to process anything other than "it's my constitutional right".

[dionysus]

64. it is bigotry. there's no way to tapdance around it. you're bigoted against muslims.

it's no different than opposing a gay bar because the patrons are gay, or opposing a black church because the folks that attend are black.

no difference.

"true discussion" indeed.

[dkf]

71. No I think that the way it was handled defeated the purpose.

As a bridge to peace it could have continued if they had decided to move it earlier. But there is no point in it now. As a peace center it's done.

I also think that this Imam is awful at PR. I hope he doesn't botch up our efforts abroad as he botched his own efforts here.

The incompetence is amazing.

[ShamelessHussy]

134. Muslims have nothing to apologize for, only folks who equate them with terrorist do

yet, think Muslims do, only reveal their own ignorance.

[seabeyond]

66. being a minority does not exclude you from being a bigot either. nt

[LostinVA]

74. +1

[dkf]

79. As far as I'm concerned it's just another n word.

I'm from the most multicultural multiracial multireligious state in this country. Once you've seen your Samoan Mormon mayor doing the Buddhist Bon dance with the Jewish former head of the party and the refuse to disclose her religion Lt Gov candidate who sponsored Islam day, you've truly experienced a wonderful thing. You people have no idea what true multiculturalism is.

And I only looked up the religion of these folks because I was tickled that they know how to Bon dance. Other than that no one really knows or cares much.

[seabeyond]

83. and you are truly clueless what "You people " have an idea about or not. nt

[dkf]

95. Well tell me about where you live then. I highly doubt it can be as varied as my city.

[seabeyond]

96. so now we are in a competition who has more diversity? and this will

decide what? are you fuckin for real?

[dkf]

101. I said you people haven't seen multiculturalism like I have. You took offense at that.

So why are you offended if it is the truth?

You know what multiculturalism is? When you don't know the exact race of your sweetie nor your nieces and nephew because there are too many to count.

[beam me up scottie]

104. Couple weeks ago a black man asked me what a woman like me was doing with a Mexican.

My bf is multiracial and that black man was just as much a bigot as the anti-muslim ones.

You have no idea who seabeyond is or what she's experienced, for all we know you're a straight white christian male pretending to be a minority because you think it makes you look credible.

You owe seabeyond an apology.

[seabeyond]

107. offended by the truth? as i say, you are clueless. what an obsurd direction to take your post

it is like calling someone on sexism adn being accused of being asexual, or ugly and then defending my sexuality or looks. BS and i dont play that game.

[uppityperson]

122. Having seen multiculturalism doesn't exclude you from being a bigot

Do you know what a bigot is?

[shellgame26]

181. maybe "us people"

take offense to the fact that you would assume to know the lives of each of us. You sound very insular and narrow-minded and it's too bad that the "multicultural" environment where you live has taught you nothing.

[beam me up scottie]

105. You've got nothing to prove, seabeyond.

You are one of my favorite DUers and can always be counted on to rally for the underdog, no matter how unpopular.

That makes you tops in my book. :hug:

[seabeyond]

108. i have alwyas refused that cute little trap of defending myself in that manner

and i hate seeing others fall into it.

and arent you the sweetest. thanks. and backatcha.

[stranger81]

117. Next he's going to say he even has Muslim friends!

Jiminy Christmas, I thought I was on DU, and instead I've wound up somewhere on Powerline or something. My bad.

[seabeyond]

135. lol, isnt that the way that argument is going. you made me laugh. nt

[frylock]

148. tell us about your black friends

:popcorn:

[shellgame26]

180. sounds more like

"I'm not racist, I have a black friend" crap. This should be a good moment for you examine yourself.

[uppityperson]

186. You really can't see the difference between calling someone a slur and calling a bigot a bigot?

[newspeak]

212. what your saying then is any frothing rabid zealot can go create a

hate website where a right wing faux organization picks it up, thus creating a faux scandal whipping up the bigots. Before the bigot had her web site there was no scandal. So, it seems that the whole incident was virtually created with the help of MSM and blathering idiots like Beck.

[uppityperson]

121. +1000

[beam me up scottie]

103. Your minority status does not prevent you from being a bigot, it just makes you a hypocrite, too.

You seem to think it allows you the right to fan the flames of hatred for another minority without being called on it.

Fail.

[CLANG]

150. You must hear that word often.

[shellgame26]

179. WTF? Are you serious?

"Being a minority in every way possible gives me the freedom to think for myself and not be inflicted with white male Protestant guilt."

You think taking a bigoted stance somehow absolves you because "you are a minority"? Yet you side with Fox News' "white male protestant" position? The only thing your statement proves is that being a minority does not immunize you from being an ignorant bigot.

Well I am neither white, male nor protestant and I think YOU ARE THE BIGGEST TOOL FOR GETTING COZY WITH THE LYNCH MOB. Because the enemy du jour may be muslims today but someone else (perhaps you) tomorrow.

[madmom]

39. The same thing that's keeping "christians" from worshiping in one of the many

churches on every fucking corner in every fucking town in this country. Why do "christians" have to have so many churches? I find that a blight on the landscape. Why can't they tear them all down and they all go to just one? From my front yard I can see 4 churches, talk about over kill.

[pinboy3niner]

41. WOW--that is really disingenuous! Nice try at irrelevant distraction.

You've been following this issue closely, and you know very well that the the mosque 4 blocks from the WTC site, Masjid Manhattan, is a completely DIFFERENT congregation from Park51 and is temporarily located in a space that is far too small for its OWN congregation.

From the Masjid Manhattan website (for the benefit of those who don't know the facts about this):

OUR MASJID NEEDS YOUR URGENT HELP!
Help Us Replace What We've Lost.

On May 25th 2008 our Masjid was evicted and forced to vacate the building which it occupied for 28 years. By the mercy of Allah, we found a small temporary location just two doors down the street from the old location and Alhamdullillah we did not have to close the Masjid. This new rental space is extremely small and it only has room for 20% of our members during Jummah. The rest of the members have to pray on the sidewalk outside the Masjid and are not able to listen to the Khutbah.

We, the members of the Board and the Committee, are working very hard to find a proper location to relocate the Masjid to. We ask every brother and sister to make sincere duas to Allah-Subhanahu-wa-tala to help us and to make it easy for us. We also plead to those who are financially able, to help us by donating or by giving us a Qardhan hassanan (Islamic loan).

http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/

[uppityperson]

115. You truly believe all Muslim sects are the same? sort of like all christian ones?

Who is preventing them from promoting peace, tolerance and having a community center open to all? Bigots. So, who to blame for the bigots reactions? Gee. Let me guess.

[TheKentuckian]

161. There is another mosque but is it this group's?

You might be telling the Methodists to go to the Southern Baptist church.

You like conflating all Muslims. Hell, you might be telling one set of Baptist to blend in with another they don't subscribe to.

They have the right to practice as THEY see fit, not as you find acceptable.

[pinboy3niner]

164. She knows very well it's a bogus argument

This is the mosque she's talking about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9004951&mesg_id=9005387

[seabeyond]

166. not to mention it is too small for the people that are a part of that mosque as it is. nt

[Alameda]

177. it is too small for the congregation....

[bowens43]

190. Yes and blacks can set in the back of the bus.....

who would be stopping them from getting where they're going? Right?

Unbelievable. Seeing this attitude here amazes and disgusts me.

[unpossibles]

207. and blacks had seats at the back of the bus. Why were they complaining? nt

[MilesColtrane]

73. The freedom to practice the religion of your choice doesn't float your boat?

You know, there are other countries out there that would love to have you as a citizen.

[Dorian Gray]

126. Or

you know, freedom of religious assembly so that they aren't attacked by mob mentality.

Or you can just call that "a building."

[uppityperson]

128. I really appreciate you. eom

[Dorian Gray]

162. Right back at you!

:)

[uppityperson]

114. Having hope is a good thing but in this case I think in vain.

[seabeyond]

19. wow... you are into people behaving horribly and putting ownness on the nonabuser

arent you insightful

[pinboy3niner]

160. It's a classic case of blaming the victim

The ugly racism and bigotry are all the Imam's fault for being such an advocate of peace, understanding and tolerance! :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

167. yup. nt

[chrisa]

49. The opposition to the mosque has nothing to do with Ground Zero. This should be obvious by now.

It's more about hatred and alienation of Muslims. If the mosque were being built somewhere else, there would still be the same opposition to it. How do I know this? Look at the other examples, such as in Nashville, Tennessee.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/article_25bd34aa-aec7-11df-af64-001cc4c002e0.html

Note the phrases like, "We're at war with these people," and "Stop the spread of terror." The large, ignorant portion of the American populace believes that we're at war with Muslims, and have a hate/fear idea of them. The idea about is that Mosques are breeding grounds for terrorists (or even that all Muslims are terrorists, or "the enemy"), so any new mosque now is going to face hordes of ignorant people against it.

If the spread of this hatred, 1930's Germany style, doesn't scare you and everybody else, it should. That's a real issue to be afraid of (as opposed to this new, acceptable form of racism by these protesters).

[Sea Witch]

51. Bigotry should never be an acceptable road to peace.

[Beetwasher]

53. Wow, That Is A Sick, Sick Fucking Thing To Say

Holy shit. How depraved.

[fascisthunter]

76. sorry but with this attitude you side with the bigots

[lame54]

6. The Lord of the Flies

[Liberal In Texas]

9. It's often embarrassing to be an American.

These stupid people are like the ones who attacked Sikhs after 9/11. Many Americans have very little knowledge of the rest of the world and other cultures. They know nothing beyond what the see on their TV sets and that is mostly American Idol, Lost, Americas Most Wanted, Cops, etc.

[Sea Witch]

57. That should be changed from "an American" to " a Human"

Because quite frankly ignorance, bigotry, racism and fear of "others" are found in every corner of the globe.

[seabeyond]

69. it isnt jsut america. it is world wide. hate, bigotry, fear. there is no where

that is safe from this. and the more we and the world feeds it, the bigger it gets.

the more we as a collective conscious, dont allow it, it lessens.

[Evasporque]

11. As with most conservative positions...racism is at the core....nt

[Hepburn]

12. I have a good friend who is East Indian ~~ from Northern India

He is light skinned, but looks Middle Eastern. He was raised in England and obtained two Ph.D.s ~~ both in the medical area. He does amazing work for disease diagnosis and prevention in 3rd world countries and holds numerous US patents.

You can guess the rest...

[lunatica]

13. Unfortunately they got a dose of worked up mob hate

I'm very glad they were safely taken out of danger, but I can't help wondering if they could have just as easily been caught up in the mob mentality if it had been someone else being the target of irrational hate.

This should be a wake-up call for them.

[Turborama]

15. Would anyone feel safe walking past this lot?

Well done, Faux & Co. Just look at their faces and revel
in the hate and fear that you've created....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8998375&mesg_id=9004449">The Reichwing media aren't called that for nothing


Mission Accomplished!

[jaxx]

20. Did you ever think someone in the USA would have to shout out

"I'm a christian" to back off a bunch of ignorant bigots? The rightwing has sunk about as low as it can go now, the hatred is their essence.

[Amaril]

213. Ummmm................

It's happened before -- Salem witch trials ring a bell?

So sad that we have evolved ZERO as a country and a people in 300+ years.

[jdlh8894]

21. Only one way to settle this.(IMO)

Build the Mosque(Park 51-whatever)
Rebuild the Towers

Then if 9/11 happens again,we will finally find out who was right!

:sarcasm:

[Warpy]

22. It all seems to start the same way

Bosnia, Rwanda, Kosovo all started with a drumbeat of hate from radio. Before there was radio, there was a drumbeat of hate from pulpits and yellow journalist newspapers. It always ends the same way, with innocent people being beaten or killed outright until either people are exhausted by slaughter or enough revulsion sweeps through the population to stop it. Sadly, it's usually the former.

It not only can happen here, it is happening here. Stupid, easily led people will gladly attack anyone they've been given permission to hate by unctuous voices on their radios.

Stupid, easily led people will always be with us. The only question is what will have to happen before their hate filled leaders are finally put under control, reined in by an FCC charged with policing the nation's airwaves so that they remain in service to the public.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Amen

I've made that point at DU before I'm involved very deeply with Rwanda Partners and a little less deeply with Genocide Watch.

Any student of the Rwanda Genocide knows the words "Cut The Tall Trees" and how it was hammered over and over again as the 'code' until yes indeedy - people walked next door with machetes and hacked their neighbors to death. Rwanda at the time - though not fully 'first world' in terms of its infrastructure - was a burgeoning country on the brink of modernity. When the radios blared "Cut the Tall Trees" after the onslaught of propaganda and hate filled speech for years and years - it caused the Hutus no discomfort to hack to death Tutsi sympathizers, Tutsi - and the (pardon the pun) very 'little' referenced Twa.

Actually - eh? My fascination with Genocide and how it happens and WHY it happens started when I was about 7 or 8 and watching a PBS special on the Holocaust.

Folks have made the connection between the Nazi Regime and its followers in regards to Muslims at DU . . . but it 'feels' more like the quick, fast, hate and fear filled paranoia on the part of the Genocidaire in Rwanda. Maybe followed by Bosnia then the Armenian genocide. So fast and so brutal is what we are heading towards unless . ..

We Jam the Airwaves Now.

[chrisa]

61. It's not being done or supported by the government or police, yet.

But God help us if that ever happened. Fortunately, our government's legal system is strong, and would arrest and prosecute anybody who did that. We're nowhere near that type of insanity yet. However, the canary in the coal mine is starting to cough a little bit. These people have the right to protest, but any forms of violence or threats should be taken very seriously, imo, to send out the message that denying these Muslims' their rights to worship will not be tolerated.

These people protesting are not the fringe, sadly. Anti-Muslim hatred is prevalent in our society. However, we should work towards pushing these people into the fringe, like stopping a spreading virus, so that others don't fall victim to their stupidity. We're all we have, and I feel sorry for anybody that spends their days hating groups of people for no reason. I'm not angry at these screaming bigots, I pity them.

[CanonRay]

25. "These people are profoundly misinformed about Islam"

Actually, these people are profoundly misinformed about almost everything.

[nc4bo]

80. What's really troubling is that they have no desire to educate themselves..

They have no empathy and can't seem to shut off the hate screams long enough to think about why they hate or who is behind the calls to hate.

The just prefer to just respond to commands from an owner, like a dog.

[mike r]

38. Typical teabagger racism

If this isn't racism, then pigs fly.

[madmom]

43. I think we need to find where a church is being built close to an elementary school and

protest the hell out of it just to get some reaction. :nopity:

[Colorado Liberal]

157. It doesn't even need to be a church...

Truth be told, we need to protest a YMCA being built near an elementary school. A YMCA is just the same as a chapel, don'cha know...

[chrisa]

46. KKK Rally. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Coptic Christians protesting religious freedom what irony!

[closeupready]

58. This shows unequivocally that racism is on the rise again in the United States.

It also seems to be on the rise in Europe.

[closeupready]

59. Did anyone ever see the film "My Name is Khan"?

n/t

[AspenRose]

63. I love what the guy said to them..it should be a bumper sticker or sign

“All y’all dumb motherfuckers don’t even know my opinion on shit.”

[Javaman]

67. "Both said they had come to protest the mosque."

"In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque."

Now that they have had a taste of the hate they they themselves were promoting, I wonder if they have changed their minds?

Morons.

[bullwinkle428]

78. This aspect of the story has a very "Twilight Zone episode" quality to it!

:evilgrin:

[mstinamotorcity]

72. I have seen this type of

mentality before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

[wtmusic]

81. I have to wonder how many protestors in this manufactroversy

live anywhere near New York.

None of your business people...Just. Go. Home.

[Poll_Blind]

97. That is just fucking sick. Is it really about being Muslim or just being brown, period?

I dunno. It's fucked up here in the Land of the Free...

PB

[Douglas Carpenter]

110. kick and recommend!!

[myrna minx]

113. K&R n/t

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Wizard]

140. Pox News and hate radio

have abused their positions. They have promoted violence and incited people to riot. When will they demand that all Muslims wear yellow crescents on their clothing so as to identify them as terrorists in the event the the totalitarians need a scapegoat much like what happened to Jews in Eastern Europe during the pogroms.
If there was a drought the authorities would blame the Jews and kill some randomly until it rained. We are dealing with the same kind of thinking in the American right wing. They are really stupid, weak and easily frightened people who are of lynch mob mentality.
The Republicans and their media megaphones need a good beating, and I don't mean at the polls. With pain comes awareness. Like the American philosopher Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

[Scurrilous]

141. K & R

:thumbsup:

[wookie72]

142. i'm so depressed about this whole thing.

There's so much ugliness about this issue. I'm sick of it all. The lies from the anti-mosque people, the attitude of "well, I support their right, but should they?"

I was on a site dealing with gender issues, and I expected that most people would be fairly progressive. And yet some still had the same attitudes as the most virulent anti-mosquers.

This goes beyond "typical teabaggers." Sometimes it's even couched in so-called "progressive" "I'm against all religions" sentiments.

Please, somebody give me some hope.

[Douglas Carpenter]

144. another kick

[CLANG]

145. These people are profoundly misinformed about EVERYTHING!

[proReality]

147. The ugliest Americans, taught nothing good by even uglier Americans. n/t

[wookie72]

151. it's not just Americans

I live in Canada, and our own ring wing drums up the same hateful nonsense.
But I think we're all become coarser, more combative. It's easy to say "stupid teabaggers" or whatever. But we're all guilty of being carried away with the crowd.
I don't think it's a matter of "if we do this the terrorists win." They've already won.

[rtw]

193. I agree.

It's both sides.  Here is some footage from the pro-mosque
demonstration.  At about 4 mins, the speaker denigrates
zionist Jews.  A lady walks away in disbelief.  Ironically,
the next speaker talks about those who are fomenting a pogrom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlgyw01ZQew

[wookie72]

197. I'm beginning to think the Internet is the problem

100 years ago, someone like Glenn Beck or Pamela Geller would be limited to reaching people within the sound of their soapbox on whatever streetcorner would tolerate them.

But as well, anonymous commenting allows people to be harsher and more abusive than they would ever be face-to-face. I'm not exempt from this.

[seabeyond]

199. +1. nt

[wookie72]

200. stupid question...

what does nt mean?

[seabeyond]

202. nah. not stupid, just a newbie question. no text. so you dont have to go into

the post... nothing there.

[pinboy3niner]

203. Welcome to DU, wookie72!

Googling unfamiliar terms and abbreviations can help, and you can also use the DU Glossary as a reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190

:hi:

[rtw]

201. I don't know.

I think the more voices the better, the more information the better. However, this requires even more personal discernment to get to the truth for yourself. Forced to think for yourself, not a bad outcome.

[wookie72]

205. Trouble is the 'net is a megaphone

It lets the loudest people get more attention.

[savalez]

153. Pure Racism. That's all they have, that's all they are.

[savalez]

154. Now watch FOX deny it happened - claim the video is doctored and people are lying.

[wial]

158. Lord forgive me for saying this but

if we have to have a Kristallnacht, why can't it be the Teabaggers who get it?

I don't mean that. They're our demented diabetic older relatives and they should be dear to us however addled their received ideologies. But wow could this country use a housecleaning.

[defendandprotect]

176. These rw thugs have been purposefully misinformed about Muslims ....

Bushco took the opportunity of 9/11 to brand ALL Muslims as "terrorists" --

Few in MSM have really pointed that out --

In fact, US/CIA had a lot to do with transporting those violent Islamic textbooks

into the ME obviously to create a more virulent strain of Islam! US created and printed

those textbooks Americans were made so frightened of!! And we shipped them into the ME!

9/11 was a stone which knocked out quite a few birds -- a big international money heist,

two wars -- mercenaries/privatized army -- opportunity to bankrupt the Treasury --

and a Christian "Crusade" -- !! Don't forget -- W spoke with God who told him to

attack Afganistan and then on another occasion told him to attack Iraq!

[BrklynLiberal]

182. Ignorance is being used as a weapon by the repukes..and sadly, they are using it very

effectively.

Scary, scary , scary.

[Maraya1969]

187. I hate that they make a big deal about, "it's all right I'm a Christian"

As if that makes everything OK. This mosque thing has gotten way out of hand and the media makes it even worse by always mentioning what religion the "right" person is. They should add something like the Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with it" when George and Jerry were wrongly outed as gay.....they said it every time they talked about the situation.

I would like to stand up at a teabagger meeting and say, "My name is Maraya and I am not a Christian. I'm sure it would get booed but it would make a point.

[Withywindle]

188. Ugly ugly ugly

Shortly after 9/11 a co-worker of mine had kids throwing rocks at her and yelling anti-Muslim slurs as she rode her bike to work.

She's Mexican-American and lapsed Catholic, as it happens, and was wearing a scarf on her head because it was cold and drizzly out.

[spicegal]

191. Make no mistake, the GOP and right wing media has fomented this kind of hatred and bigotry.

They're playing a very dangerous game, creating tigers they cannot tame, as they unleash unrest across the land. These people cannot be returned to power. They will only go on hurting the country.

[BeHereNow]

209. Bingo- Just like the Rawandan Genocide was encouraged by their own Glenn Beck.

Dangerous people, the hate talk show hosts.
BHN

[ingac70]

192. LOL at the Egyptian Christians.

Hope it was nice and scary, douches. Now you know what it's really about.

[Deep13]

195. If the guy was white, the crowd would have assumed...

...the guy in the funny hat was Jewish.

[olegramps]

198. How ironic. The two dark skinned Christians who came to protest the Center are attacked.

Edited to apologize for insulting gnats.


For me that is the most important aspect of the post. It so clearly demonstrates that the mob has a collective intelligence of a gnat.

[lunasun]

204. Well who cares if they were not really Muslims; in both cases

they were not white and that is what's wrong darn it! get real

[citizen snips]

208. I think everyone needs to read Joseph Nastralla's statement.

Dear Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer,
I am Joseph Nassralla, a Coptic Christian activist from Egypt and founder of The Way TV, a Christian Satellite TV station.

I attended the 10,000 person protest rally against the building to the ground zero mosque which took place at ground zero in NY on Sunday June 6th. We Coptic Christians wanted to express our full support to your initiative and to this important rally.

There was a minor incident at the rally that was blown out of proportion, when my partner, Mr. Karam El Masry, and I were distributing material with some Quran verses and we were also speaking Arabic thus we were mistaken by a few people in the huge crowd, for being Muslims infiltrators trying to disrupt the event. This misunderstanding was clarified when we explained who we were and that we are there to support the crowd against the building of the mosque. I was a little frustrated initially for being identified as a Muslim infiltrator, but was glad that the issue was resolved later. My partner, Mr. El Masry, was even able to freely speak to the crowd after our identity was clarified. He explained how Christians are tortured, killed and oppressed in Egypt at the hands of Muslims who are encouraged to persecute Christians from the pulpit of mosques by Muslim preachers.

The reason I am writing to you, is because I am very disappointed in the mainstream media who used this minor incident to make a blanket generalization about all the attendees of the rally as Muslim haters. This kind of generalization was unfair to the good American people who legitimately stand against the building of a mosque next to ground zero and who are against Islamist agenda in the US. I am very well aware of such an agenda which has destroyed the Christian and Jewish existence in the Middle East.

The same mainstream media who denounces painting all Muslims with a broad brush, is doing the same thing they claim to stand against. They shamelessly use our incident to paint with a broad brush that everyone in the rally was a Muslim hater. I want to make it clear that we are not haters of Muslims, but we are against the Islamist agenda in America, the same agenda that drove us out of our homeland Egypt. We have the right to expose Muslim hate and oppression against us, the minorities in the Middle East who are oppressed on a daily basis by the Muslim majority. This mosque should never be built next to ground zero, it is an insult to the memory of the 3000 fellow Americans.

We did not mean to cause any misunderstanding at the rally, on the contrary, we came to support you and your organization. We come from a Muslim country where we suffered from Muslims and the Islamic Shariaa ourselves. That's why we felt burdened to attend this rally and flew for 9 hours to be part of it.. We do support you with our heart and soul, and will always support you and everyone who is opposing Islam. We do honor Mr. Robert's invitation to attend your next rally in September, God's willing, and are looking forward to seeing you there.

We have come to America to seek refuge from the oppression of Islam and expose to the American public what kind of instigation we suffered at the hands of hateful Muslim preachers who incite the worshiping crowds to burn our homes, kidnap our girls and suppress our freedom to practice our religion. We will never allow media misrepresentation to stop us from our mission.

Yours truly,
Joseph Nassralla

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/live-webcast-tonight-coptic-christian-activist-joseph-nassralla-pamela-geller-and-robert-spencer-res.html

[Name removed]

210. Deleted message

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

211. You're right. It's probably not real muslims building that mosque.

Maybe they're Scotsmen.