Vaccine FAQ: the biology of vaccines, pt 2 of 3

[TZ]

1) There are two basic types of vaccines: virus (attenuated, live etc) that are made directly with the antigen (i.e. virus) and recombinants which are made with small bits of the virus…bits that through extensive testing are determined to be the most likely to provoke the most useful antibody response. Recombinants are considered to be the wave of the future because since its only small bits and not actual virus they are less likely to have side effects.
2) A vaccine is neither a chemical or drug but something entirely different. It is designed to train the immune system into making antigen specific antibodies . Once the vaccine enters the bloodstream it is attacked by the immune system. A good vaccine provokes enough of a response that the immune system will remember it on encountering it again, but not enough that they person actually get sick. Sometimes that happens and people have side effects similar to the actual disease. Sometimes it takes more than one exposure so that the immune system remembers it. Those vaccines require boosters. Vaccines DO NOT linger in the body the way a chemical does. Once the immune system is done “attacking” the vaccine, the now defunct complex of antibody-vaccine(waste product) is removed from the body by the spleen, the same way the body removes the killed virus/bacteria/pathogen of any infection we pick up.
3) Adjuvants. This is actually a technology that has been quite widely accepted and used for years. Some of them have very frightening complex chemical names. In truth, they are small molecules that are attached to the vaccines to “boost” the effect of the vaccine. A good adjuvant can make the need for boosters much less. Some adjuvants work better than others with certain vaccines. A lot of pre-clinical trial work in vaccine R+D is determining what adjuvant works best with a particular vaccine. Since it is attached (or conjugated is the technical term) directly to the vaccine, like the vaccine it is bound tightly in the antibody-vaccine complex which is eventually taken out of the system within a short period of time by the spleen.
4) Side effects- all vaccines have side effects. The thing with vaccines is that they work really really well. However since they stimulate the immune system, autoimmune problems can sometimes result from a vaccine. And sometimes people have undiscovered allergies to some of the compounds and that can cause difficulties as well. As mentioned above sometimes somebody just can’t handle some of the very potent vaccines (the live virus ones usually) and they get sick. Mostly its minor, flu like symptoms aches etc, minor fevers. Sometimes for unknown reasons the reactions are far more severe. No one can predict how individuals are going to react to a vaccine. However the serious reactions are very very small in terms of percentages of overall population. Cold comfort perhaps to the few individuals that have suffered a bad reaction but true none the less. The golden rule on vaccines are this: only healthy individuals are vaccinated. Anything less than healthy is asking for trouble. In fact, it is my OPINION that many of the serious side effects that individuals suffer are due to previously undetected underlying health issues. But that’s only speculation on my part.

Part 3 will be Vaccine misconceptions

Note to mods: I am aware most of these topics are now posted in health but I would like to see these posts remain in GD if at all possible
Note to science geeks: I am aware that I have very much simplified some very complex science in an effort to communicate and inform. In other words, no nit picking, please!

[trotsky]

1. Make sure you put these in your journal!

K&R

[TZ]

2. soooo

does this meet with your approval Mr. Trotsky?

[trotsky]

3. Looks pretty good to me!

But I will be the first to admit I am no expert, unlike those who are quick to bash vaccines.

[eridani]

4. And in the Research section too n/t

[MLFerrell]

5. How about a break down of Thimerosal and other mercury-based vaccine preservatives?

That would certainly seem germane to your discussion...

[TZ]

6. Why?

They aren't used except in certain flu vaccines (see post three). I don't even know whats in them-se when they used them in vaccines, that was way before I worked on vaccines-see part 3

[upi402]

10. You can't get them unless for an infant. Just smaller viles/doses = cost

I'm told it's just the economy of volume and storage. I'd pay more and maybe get a flu shot if there was thimerosal-free vaccine available.

I have enough murcury in my system from the tuna I used to eat.

[SidDithers]

7. K&R...thanks for posting...nt

Sid

[leftchick]

8. my son was just diagnosed with T1 Diabetes

He also had the chickenpox vaccine as a baby. He is now 12 yo and I think he needs a booster yet I am afraid because of his T1D diagnosis. Am I being too cautious?

[TZ]

9. No you are not being too cautious

I would ask your doctor about it. As I said vaccines are for healthy people. I think Type I is actually autoimmune induced so yeah a vaccine might not be a good idea. I am not an MD so I really can't say...I am not giving medical advice here....:)

[REP]

16. Warning: Anecdote

I am a T2 diabetic with non-diabetic kidney failure (ie, massive immune issues). Since I had chickenpox when I was 16, vaccinating me against it isn't an issue, but I have received other boosters on the advice of my doctor without a problem. *Do* ask his doctor - this is anecdotal only and a show of support! (And be sure to ask what the doctor thinks about flu vaccine; most think it's important for anyone with either type diabetes.)

[Lurking Dem]

19. I have type 1

and I was vaccinated for everything. I also have lupus and I think the only one I can't do is FluMist, because it is live.

[atommom]

11. K & R

[blueworld]

12. How about nit counting?

You are doing a splendid job, so please don't consider this a horrible criticism, but in your terrific effort to simplify, IMHO you've oversimplified "recombinant" vaccines, their origins, development & potential risks. As I'm sure you know, DNA technology uses bacteria & yeasts to take those little bits & create proteins used in the vaccines. There lies the rub.

Of course the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks most of the time & in the old days & in the old ways. I'd like to feel more confident that our vaccine development & approval procedures are as up to date as our technology.

Please continue to communicate & inform - you are honestly doing a splendid job.

[TZ]

13. The vaccine research I was doing at NIH

was malaria vaccines and they were all recombinants. I was in charge of a lot of the actual safety, potency and toxicity testing on the multiple candidates (both in animal and human models) they were using and the data was good there. The problem with them was less that they were unsafe and more that they weren't quite producing the desired antigenic response. Trust me when I say, although there are issues, there are some really fine methods of testing and developing novel vaccines including a new concept I was introduced to at NIH where one candidate was a transmission blocking vaccine. In other words..it wouldn't necessarily protect the vaccinee from getting malaria (a poor antigenic response) but any malaria carrying mosquito biting that person would have its parasites killed by the hosts antibodies! In theory you could wipe out malaria in large areas by simply vaccinating a small amount of people!

[Richard Steele]

14. K&R

[Random_Australian]

15. Well, I'll add that to my store of knowledge - a little each day keeps

the overspecialisation at bay. :)

[REP]

17. One TINY Nit Pick, Please?

White space between paragraphs for easier readability?

That's the pick. Great post - thanks!

[TZ]

18. I was a bit rushed on my posts

Cause I posted part 1 and promptly got booted off from DU, and had a hard time getting back on. I was trying to get all three together as much as possible..so formatting went down the list of priorities...Thanks for the positive feedback!:)