Gold 2008! JP Morgan Fixes Prices and the Saudis Snag 180 Tons, Cheap

[McCamy Taylor]

Something is bugging me. Where did Saudi Arabia find 180 tons of gold to buy at a bargain price in the first two weeks of November, 2008? During that period, buried among the stories about our newly elected president and our tanking economy, a few financial bloggers had time to post this

http://gulfnews.com/business/markets/gold-demand-rises-in-saudi-arabia-1.143101

There has been an unprecedented demand for gold in the Saudi market recently, with over 13 billion Saudi riyals (Dh12.75 billion) being spent on the yellow metal during the last two weeks.
snip
Since soaring to an all-time high of $1,033.39 per ounce in March this year, gold has plummeted 30 per cent.
Gold for December delivery on Monday rose $8.60 to settle at $726.80, roughly the same level at which it traded a year ago.
"Many Saudi investors see this as the right time for making investments in gold as its price is the most reasonable one at present," said Al Mohna.

http://gulfnews.com/business/markets/gold-demand-rises-in-saudi-arabia-1.143101

Wow! The Saudis got a bargain! Gold was down 30% right when it came time for them to start diversifying their oil portfolios. Obama had just been elected signalling the rise of the nuclear power and alternative energy industries in the US. The banks had collapsed. Mortgages were in default. Carlyle’s investment group was in debt. The U.S. dollar was circling the toilet. Where and how did the Bush family’s bosses in Saudi Arabia find that much gold for that kind of price?

Of course, no one is talking. So I will play my favorite game. Connect the dots:

In the Spring of 2008, when Bear Stearns was sacrificed to save Morgan Chase and Eliot Spitzer was being prosecuted by the DOJ for revealing the Banksters’ investment frauds, gold must have seemed like a safe bet. Prices were over $1000/ounce.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/13/markets/gold/index.htm

By August, 15, 2008 gold was down to $786/ounce.

http://silver-and-gold-prices.goldprice.org/2008_08_01_archive.html

Why? There are a whole bunch of theories, but this is the one that makes the most sense.

http://www.buy-high-sell-higher.com/2008/10/18/october-18-2008-why-gold-is-falling-and-why-gold-will-spike-up-in-november/

Briefly, the author of this article believes that the Banksters at JP Morgan and HSBC conspired to keep down gold prices for a few months in 2008. Why? So they could steal more of our money. Though demand for the metal was high all through 2008, and the supply was low, the price fell and remained artificially depressed.

You don’t believe that JP Morgan would or could manipulate the precious metals market? Here is a whistleblower who described how they do it earlier this year:

http://www.gata.org/node/8466

In November 2009 Maguire contacted the CFTC enforcement division to report this criminal activity. He described in detail the way JPMorgan Chase signals to the market its intention to take down the precious metals. Traders recognize these signals and make money shorting the metals alongside JPM. Maguire explained how there are routine market manipulations at the time of option expiry, non-farm payroll data releases, and COMEX contract rollover, as well as ad-hoc events.

On February 3 Maguire gave two days' warning by e-mail to Eliud Ramirez, a senior investigator for the CFTC's Enforcement Division, that the precious metals would be attacked upon the release of the non-farm payroll data on February 5. On February 5, as market events played out exactly as predicted, further e-mails were sent to Ramirez while the manipulation was in progress.

It would not be possible to predict such a market move unless the market was manipulated.

The day after he testified. Maguire and his wife were the victims of a hit and run driver. They survived. There was also a fire at the CFTC (although we are assured that nothing of value was lost)

http://mindbodypolitic.com/2010/03/27/cftc-whistle-blower-wife-injured-by-hit-and-run-driver/

Firedoglake complained of a media blackout, including the WSJ which is supposed to report all the financial news, right?

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/38690

More on the U.S. news media blackout here:

In the twelve days since this evidence was presented at the CFTC hearings, there have been no statements of denial coming from JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, or any US government agency. The lack of coverage by mainstream US financial media is notable by its absence.
Outside of the US, this evidence has received extensive coverage. Murphy and Maguire have been interviewed for broadcasts in many European nations, including Russia.

http://news.coinupdate.com/strange-reactions-to-precious-metals-manipulation-evidence-provided-to-cftc-0219/

I became interested in the possibility of gold price manipulation today when an investment adviser said that if such manipulation was taking place, the U.S. government would cover it up to protect the value of its own gold supply. What if such a revelation had already been made? I wondered. I decided to start looking into gold. Unfortunately, there is one little fact that I have not been able to find. Where did the Saudis buy their gold?

Back to 2008. While ordinary investors were scouring stores trying to locate gold, the Saudis had no problem finding 180 tons of it.

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2010/6/Pages/Looking-Behind-the-Saudi-Gold-Holdings-Increase.aspx

All of this leads to more questions:

Who told the Saudis that the price was heading back up? Folks at JP Morgan? Members of the Bush administration who were in on the Banksters’ little scheme? We will never know.

How much has the Saudi investment made them? Around $4 billon dollars according to my calculations. A drop in the bucket compared to their total wealth, but the ultra-rich are notoriously attached to money.

Where did that $4 billion profit come from? There ought to be a record somewhere. No one sells 180 tons of gold without leaving a paper trail. But I can not find this information anywhere! Help!

Why should you or I care? If you sold your gold between April and November 2008 for an (artificially) low price, it came from you. If your country (say the United States) sold some of its gold reserve---say, the reserve that is also described as being in the International Monetary Fund---for a low, low price, it came from you too.

FYI, interesting article about how difficult is to figure out exactly how much gold is where with the feds and the IMF sometimes declaring that they possess the same gold.

http://theostrichhead.typepad.com/index/2010/04/imf-gold-holdings-why-mine-the-stuff-when-your-accountants-can-create-it.html

Who cares if the fed sold it? I care. Papa Bush works for the Saudis. If his son sold our gold (cheap) to his father’s employers that sounds like more insider trading to me. And we all know what an expert Shrub is on insider trading. If the IMF sold U.S. gold to the Saudis in 2008, that was illegal. The U.S. Congress did not authorize such sales until 2009 . Since then, the IMF has been on a wild selling spree.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61H35H20100218

Note that India, the world’s biggest consumer of gold bought about the same amount which the Saudis acquired---at a 30% higher price. I don’t see why people are always putting down Islam. Allah obviously loves the Saud Family. He keeps throwing money their way.

[Flying Squirrel]

1. Careful...

You may be getting too close to the truth.

[RandomThoughts]

2. You touch on some doctrines.

Interestingly although you add nouns that are not my thoughts on the topic.


There is some thoughts on why some people get many things, some even relate it to fattening them. Some think of it as trying to show them kindness so they will share that kindness. Some think of it as making a case, so that some day, they really wont be able to say they weren't treated nice.

To those that much is given, much is expected. So is being rich really good? Hence the idea of blessed are those with less.

Really many concepts on that topic, some think it is because they earned it or something like that, or because something likes them, so there is that side of the argument also.

Really interesting thoughts on that last comment you made.

I try to look at how they got the money, what they do with it, did they hurt to get it, do they help, things like that. Although that depends on if you believe in existence being just or not.

[rve300]

3. Wow

That along way to go to try and describe basic market principles-

1. If the gold price is off it's high by 30% then it's a great buy. No conspiracy needed to figure that out

2. Gold would be the hardest thing in the world to manipulate. It is too widely held. Not subject to the variables that effect other commodities. Like a drought or storm can effect a crop harvest or oil rigs.

3. If you take 180 tons off the market, prices will go up. No back room deals need to to predict that

4. Any gains they have made are on paper only and will be reduced if or when they dump 180 tons back on the market.

5. if you actually look at the gold price chart from 2008, it took almost 6 months for the price to fall the 30% from it's high and it took another 5 months to climb back up and regain that high. Nobody can manipulate a price for 9 months.

5. JP Morgan did not need saving. They were the only major bank who were positioned to swallow smaller troubled firms and survive.

[Demeter]

4. Are You Certain That the Saudis Got Physical Gold??

If all they bought was "paper gold" or a derivative-style product, then they bought a lottery ticket, not an asset. Of course, the "paper gold" market is rigged, too....

[bhikkhu]

5. Probably that doesn't matter

...as the purchase of physical gold in that quantity would involve the transfer of ownership of gold we store at Fort Knox - which comes down to little more than a piece of paper. If they sold it again it would still stay there. Of course, the big irony would be if (as seems possible) the transfer was illegal. Which would be like me buying a crater on the moon and then selling it to more than one person at a great profit. It makes no difference in the end.

[JDPriestly]

6. Tin Foil Hat Warning.

A couple of years ago, I read on DU that the IMF wanted to audit the Fed or the US. Do I remember that correctly?

If I do remember that correctly, what happened on that audit.

I remember thinking it odd that not too long after that we had the big economic crisis of 2008 which was neatly timed and "resolved" right as we were lead to believe that the Republican dominance was ending and we would henceforth have a Democratic Congress and president.

Of course, as we now know, Wall Street and our banks were a cesspool of corruption and cheating at the time.

Now, this gets even more tin foil. So please put on your hats and remember that I am probably talking through mine. But just hypothetically, what if the IMF did an informal (or formal) audit, discovered massive problems, possibly fraud, and awarded some of the American reserve gold to Saudi Arabia at prices that seemed low because they were actually a sort of damages award to Saudi Arabia?

Another possibility -- the gold was sold to some individual or the government in Saudi Arabia because as a bribe to make sure we would not have any more 9/11 events. Remember, most of the 9/11 hijackers/terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.

I can think of a number of other scenarios that might explain the sale of gold (assuming it occurred as McCamy claims) related to 9/11. Remember the scandal in Britain about payoffs to certain individual Saudis in exchange for awarding military equipment contracts to the UK.

This is intriguing, intriguing, intriguing. My intuition tells me that there is something hidden here, but that we do not have enough facts to understand it.

Meanwhile, what is happening with regard to the audit of the Fed? Have we forgotten about that? If so, why? We should not let Dodd and the Republicans stop us on that.

In addition, Ron Paul is requesting an audit of our gold.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/economy/economics-mainmenu-44/4424-ron-paul-calls-for-audit-of-us-gold-reserves

[slipslidingaway]

7. kick for later n/t

[westerebus]

8. Nov 14,2008 Saudi declares larger gold reserves.

Nov 16,2008 Pakistan gets 7.5 billion aid package from IMF. Do the math.

[molly77]

9. Motive?

Brilliant reporting.Don't stop...the bushes bribe a lot. But there seems to be a special bond between them and the Saudis.Still..they are so cheap. A Maine blogger was involved in a Iraq war protest in Conjunct in the bush neighborhood. The neighbors were giving them the thumbs up. Locals said the bushes don't even pay taxes in ME claiming Texas as their primary home. If they weren't the bushes , they would not be allowed to get away with that.So I'm thinking they would have to get something in return even from their dearest friends.

[molly77]

10. Sorry

Don't know how Conjunct popped up for spell check on Kennebunkport.

[westerebus]

12. Welcome to DU.

Almost forgot.

[westerebus]

11. The Saudi' own Pakistan.

They're just looking after their investments. The Saudi could not run their own country without the Pakistani.