oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 05:55 PM
Original message |
Poll question: Did you support (or would you have supported) Bill Clinton or Jerry Brown in the 1992 primary? |
oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message |
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I supported Bill early on. He really stood out in the early debates as the one candidate who I felt genuinely had a chance to beat Bush (who was quite popular at the time).
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Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message |
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Not even if I was a lunatic.
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shanti
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Wed May-16-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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that's what the repukes called him :eyes:
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Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. I hope you're not implying |
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what I think you're implying.
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stevedeshazer
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Wed May-16-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
17. Well, it does seem odd that you would refer to Brown in the same way Limbaugh did |
Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
20. Yea, that does seem odd |
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that me and several other million Americans would call him Moonbeam.
Must be some sort of secret cabal or something.
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stevedeshazer
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Wed May-16-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
22. Why do you choose to call him that? |
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Since you speak for millions, you should take advantage of your big chance and explain it.
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shanti
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Thu May-17-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
Xithras
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Thu May-17-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
49. Lol! Lots of Democrats call him Moonbeam. Has nothing to do with 'Thugs |
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Kinda fits his quirky personality. During the last election, we were referring to him as Attorney General Moonbeam.
FYI, the Moonbeam nickname was coined back in the 1970's by a liberal Chicago newspaper columnist, not Rush Limbaugh. The name was coined after Brown proposed that California put up its own fleet of communications satellites and found its own space center to facilitate in-state communication. Even in pre-Prop 13 California, the idea was recognized as being staggeringly expensive and completely unfeasible. Some visionaries at the time were proclaiming that there would be a satellite dish on the roof of every California house to receive the unlimited free communications network, and that the space center and academy might one day train California moon colonists. Given the immense costs, very few people took the idea seriously, and the Moonbeam nickname stuck.
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shanti
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Thu May-17-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
53. i'm a lifelong dem and |
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i've never called him that. you don't think it's an insult? pa-lease. i voted for him from the first time he ran for governor in 75 here in cali and always considered him an extremely intelligent, aware person, not a nutcase as "moonbeam" implies. from what i've heard, it's not dems throwing that term around...
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Xithras
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Thu May-17-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
56. How does Moonbeam imply nutcase? |
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Of course he's an extremely intelligent person. The nickname reflects the pro-space technology political stance he took in the 70's, and nothing more. Even for his detractors, it's usually a roundabout way of calling him a hippy...which isn't exactly a bad thing either.
I've never seen the insult in it. To be entirely honest, until this thread came up I had no idea that ANYONE was offended by it.
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BrotherBuzz
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Wed May-16-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
23. Only a lunatic would propose putting a satellite in orbit to provide emergency communications. |
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The “Governor Moonbeam' moniker was hung on him by Chicago newspaper columnist Mike Royko in 1978 because of Brown’s idea — which today doesn’t seem very odd — of placing a satellite in orbit to provide emergency communications for the state. Royko later apologized for the label, but it has stuck.
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Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
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The idea of satellite communications came from Arthur C. Clarke, not Jerry Brown.
Jerry Brown allowed himself to be characterized by the opposition and thus earned his moniker.
Ryoko is a name I recognize and revile, but Brown did no service to the Democratic party.
By focusing on tangential matters that should never have been the centerpiece of policy, he allowed the oposition to paint him as detached from reality.
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BrotherBuzz
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Wed May-16-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
27. And Al Gore invented the internets |
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Your using the Moonbeam moniker plays right into the white-wing-wacko game plan; Rush is smiling. :shrug:
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Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
28. If we don't learn from our mistakes, |
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then when will we learn? :shrug:
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BrotherBuzz
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Wed May-16-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
30. Only 29% of this nation refuse to learn from their mistakes |
Xipe Totec
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Wed May-16-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
31. No, you're wrong there |
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Here we are, talking about Jerry Brown and Al Gore, instead of Bill Clinton; the only winning model we have over the last decade and a half. Why?
Why don't we look at the things we did right and try to repeat them, instead of focusing on the screw ups and insist that they should have been winning strategies?
Let's face it; Jerry Brown screwed up and lost. Al gore screwed up and lost (please, let's not revisit the popular vs electoral diatribe). Bill Clinton won. Twice.
Let's focus on the one winning pattern we have, and try to repeat it, instead of wallowing in our should'ves could'ves, would'ves.
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ToeBot
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Thu May-17-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
57. Well that explains it. n/t |
Xithras
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Thu May-17-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
52. The satellite wasn't the only reason for the name. |
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He also wanted to build a California focused space training center in the state to train people for the "space economy". Many pundits immediately picked up on the idea that it would be used to train moon colonists (a popular theme in fiction at the time). While Brown himself never made any claims to training colonists, the idea stuck.
When the satellite concept came up, it simply reinforced the belief in many people that he had his head in the stars (which could have been a good or a bad thing, depending on your political perspectives). Jerry Brown firmly believed that California's economy would benefit if the state became a center of space commerce, and that our future would be best served by looking up. Some people agreed with him, and some didn't, but that platform helped to spawn and anchor the Moonbeam nickname.
FWIW, I've used it for as long as I can remember, and I've never considered it to be derogatory. Then again, as far as I'm concerned...he was right!
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Xipe Totec
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Thu May-17-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
63. We should learn from this, as LBJ learned from Pappy O'Daniel |
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Edited on Thu May-17-07 08:11 PM by Xipe Totec
in 1941 LBJ got ahead of the crowd, talking about issues his constituents didn't care about, and Pappy whooped his ass. LBJ learned a lesson from this that guided the rest of his career.
Jerry made the right call on satellites, but that makes him a visionary, not a politician.
To win, our candidate (whoever she is :evilgrin: ) needs to connect with the public. To do so, the candidate needs to be seen to reflect the majority view.
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Faux pas
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Wed May-16-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Jerry Brown was under appreciated. When he was Governor of |
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California, he didn't live in the mansion to save tax payers money. Any guy who campaigns riding in a bus and eating tuna sandwiches would get my vote every time. Simplicity is a beautiful thing.
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SmokingJacket
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Wed May-16-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message |
4. Weirdly, I don't remember who I supported. |
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I think I supported Clinton, but it might be that I was just thrilled that *any* Democrat won.
That was a lifetime ago, seems like...
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oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
5. Those were exciting times |
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Twelve years of Republicans in the White House finally brought to an end!
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ronnykmarshall
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Wed May-16-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
36. One of the greatest nights of my life. |
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We had a street party in San Francisco's Castro Dist. I still have the video tape with me in the croud. It was a fantastic night. Not only did we elect Bill Clinton, but my beautiful state sent TWO women from Northern California to the senate. I hope to be able to repeat that night in November 2008. *sigh* What a great memory that is.
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Left Is Write
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Wed May-16-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
15. I had the same reaction to the poll. |
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I remember the Gennifer Flowers stuff in the news, and I remember Bill Clinton coming out of seemingly nowhere.
I so happily punched my ballot for him in the general election, though, and there was a huge celebration at the bar that night during pool league play. :)
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LisaM
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Wed May-16-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message |
6. I worked on the Harkin campaign |
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I was sorry he didn't go farther. A true progressive.
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oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
7. I thought Bill would pick him for VP |
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I remember a lot of speculation around that possibility.
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proud patriot
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Wed May-16-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message |
8. I voted for Tom Harkin in the 92 primary |
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Edited on Wed May-16-07 06:27 PM by proud patriot
Brown didn't run in that primary did he .. I thought he ran in the 88 primary :think:
Cause I know I supported Jerry Brown as well :shrug:
edit: I'm wrong, I think I voted for Jesse Jackson in 88. My first vote was in 88 . Jerry must have run in 92 but must have already backed out by the time California's primary came around .
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oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Brown got 596 delegates in 1992, second to Clinton |
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Harkin dropped out and backed Clinton very early I believe.
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proud patriot
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Wed May-16-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. I edited my above post |
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I was so young 18 at the time . Didn't pay much attention back then .
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TahitiNut
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Wed May-16-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message |
13. Brown, Clinton, Harkin, Kerrey, McCarthy, Tsongas, or Wilder? |
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:eyes: Anyone but Bush. I have always liked Jerry Brown and think he gets a bad rap.
Brown, Kerrey, and Harkin were most acceptable to me. McCarthy was a sentimental favorite but didn't get far. Tsongas was good, too.
Wilder was too conservative, slashing education funds to near death ... and seemed to enjoy the death penalty too much.
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stevedeshazer
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Wed May-16-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
16. Yeah, I was Bob Kerrey |
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And very much for anyone but Poppy.
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bigwillq
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Wed May-16-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message |
14. I would've supported Clinton |
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I could not vote yet in 1992
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AlCzervik
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Wed May-16-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message |
18. Paul Tsongas, hw was my senator and i was a lifelong masshole until 7 years ago. |
scarletwoman
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Wed May-16-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message |
19. I caucused for Jerry Brown in Willow, Alaska. There were only 3 of us, everyone else went for Bill. |
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I really didn't "get" why people were so enthused about Clinton, but there it was...
sw
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Pab Sungenis
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Wed May-16-07 06:47 PM
Response to Original message |
21. I voted for Brown because |
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he was the only opponent to Clinton left. (I was a Harkin man early on.) I wanted to see a brokered convention, which might have put someone else in there.
Remember that at the time, Clinton was polling THIRD behind Perot and Poppy*.
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Raine
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Wed May-16-07 07:13 PM
Response to Original message |
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that's who I voted for in the primary.
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TahitiNut
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Wed May-16-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. That was 1988, not 1992. |
oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
33. Remember when the two Paul Simons were on SNL |
TahitiNut
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Wed May-16-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
35. Just the bow-tie alone on SNL was funny. |
Raine
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Wed May-16-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
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Edited on Wed May-16-07 08:36 PM by Raine
yeah that's right, I got mixed up. :blush: THANKS for straightening me out.
Edit to add: I probably voted for Brown being a Californian but I'm not sure. :shrug:
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pansypoo53219
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Wed May-16-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message |
29. was for clinton from the start. |
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knew he would win.
i did NOT support kerry for that reason. Dean would have creamed georgie.
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FreeState
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Wed May-16-07 07:38 PM
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32. I was a republican then |
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I was a republican then and unfortunately blindly supported the old shrub...
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oberliner
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Wed May-16-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
34. What made you cross over? |
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Who did you vote for in 1996?
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FreeState
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Wed May-16-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
40. My Mormon mission turned me into a liberal |
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Edited on Wed May-16-07 09:01 PM by FreeState
My Mormon mission actually was the catalyst for changing parties. I served in Europe for 2 years - when I got home I rethought everything based on what I had learned living "outside the greatest country on earth". I learned not only was American not #1 in everything but it actually needed to improve and the Republicans were all for the status quo. I learned about minorities and people of different faiths and life paths - I don't see how any honest person can vote republican after being exposed to so much diversity in thought, politics and people.
Oh and in 1996 I voted for Clinton:)
(As a side note I know a lot of return missionaries who are not liberal politically - it's not so uncommon outside of Utah anyway:)
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Sapere aude
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Thu May-17-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
45. It is sad that so many Americans never see any other part of the world or see America from |
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Edited on Thu May-17-07 11:35 AM by Sapere aude
another country's perspective.
We are great in many ways but backward in so many others. It would be great if the world could adopt the greatness of each country and remove the negatives. But what I might consider great another person would think is a negative. I think we are very sexually immature in this country and many Americans want us to become even more sexually immature, for example.
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Wed May-16-07 08:17 PM
Response to Original message |
37. Tsongas was my guy. Clinton was a noseholder both times. |
Jed Dilligan
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Wed May-16-07 08:35 PM
Response to Original message |
39. Brown has shown his true colors |
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As mayor of Oakland and California AG. He's an old school, Roman Catholic authoritarian whose politics would be center-right in any other country in the world.
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oberliner
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Thu May-17-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
41. What has he done as Mayor of Oakland? |
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I haven't heard much about his tenure there.
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Xithras
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Thu May-17-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
54. Well, he quit the Democratic Party for one thing. |
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Most of the opposition to him comes from a Guiliani-style tough on crime crackdown in the Oakland projects, and his open support for redevelopment and gentrification activities that replaced poor black neighborhoods with much wealthier middle class households. Before Brown became mayor, Oakland had also been a "black city", with most of the government offices held by blacks and a system in place to ensure that government and major government supported projects went to local black and minority owned businesses. The first thing Jerry Brown did upon his election was to fire many of the top african-american employees (including the police chief and superintendent of schools), and dozens of other mangers and supervisors. Many of them were replaced with whites and latinos. He then disassembled the heavily affirmative-action oriented contract processes, and declared that he wanted to break the "African American hegemony on City Hall".
Obviously, these things didn't go over too well with many of his more liberal supporters.
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Jed Dilligan
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Thu May-17-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
58. The military academy didn't sit well either, |
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nor did his opening move as AG (going after former black militants who haven't done a thing in almost 40 years.)
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Virginia Dare
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Thu May-17-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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that's surprising, I always viewed him as an unabashed liberal, a relative of mine was pretty close to him, so I was plugged into him in the 80's and early 90's, but I admit I haven't followed him much since. :shrug:
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WilliamPitt
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Thu May-17-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message |
42. I voted Brown in the primary, Bill in the general. |
Sapere aude
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Thu May-17-07 11:28 AM
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43. I voted for Jerry Brown. |
youthere
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Thu May-17-07 11:29 AM
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44. Tom Harkin. And I STILL would support him. |
Nikki Stone1
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Thu May-17-07 11:35 AM
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bamacrat
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Thu May-17-07 11:41 AM
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47. Granted I was 9, but had I had the right to vote it would and will always be for Bill. |
Virginia Dare
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Thu May-17-07 01:17 PM
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50. I was always a big Jerry Brown fan...n/t |
deutsey
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Thu May-17-07 01:45 PM
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55. My first choice was Harkin; I wasn't a big Clinton fan during the primary |
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but I was going to vote for the Democratic nominee against Bush I, no matter who it was (within reason).
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Catherine Vincent
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Thu May-17-07 04:46 PM
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59. Big Bill all the way!! |
Vidar
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Thu May-17-07 05:33 PM
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60. My first vote was a write in for Jerry Brown in '76. I'd vote fo him anytime. |
Greyhound
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Thu May-17-07 05:37 PM
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61. I was an independent, but I would have supported Jerry Brown over Bill Clinton. n/t |
KamaAina
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Thu May-17-07 05:38 PM
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62. The flat tax was the dealbreaker with Brown for me |
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until he came out for that, I thought he was well left of Clinton, and thus, closer to me. As mentioned upthread, subsequent events in Oakland and now Sacto. have proven otherwise. Brown's incipient authoritarian tendencies were neatly satirized in the Dead Kennedys classic "California Uber Alles".
Besides, I could tell we had a winner with Clinton, and it had been twelve long years in the scorching Reagan-Bush I desert. I thought Clinton was the man to put a stop to the madness, for once and all... :shrug:
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