Are all corporations evil?

[MineralMan]

Condemning corporation seems to be the pet project of some, but I wonder if all corporations are the evil entities, bound to destroy the nation, they are made out to be.

Corporations can be as small as a single-person business or as large as a multi-national company. Do we lump them all together? Is it the fact of incorporation that creates evil?

I have to admit that I can't see a good alternative to capitalism in a nation as large as ours. We need goods. We need national distribution of goods. We need places to buy goods. The Mom and Pop company isn't really equipped to cope with such a large economic structure, as good a model as it is. In any case, many Mom and Pop businesses are corporations, too.

So, perhaps we need to focus on the individual corporations who are looting the economy, rather than the entire concept of capitalism and incorporation as a business model.

Who can name some corporations that are good citizens? Lets see if we can differentiate the good from the bad.

[RB TexLa]

1. To answer the question in your title. No.

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Doesn't Ben & Jerry's have a good reputation? N/T

[Warren Stupidity]

8. you mean Unilever?

[tsuki]

3. No, amoral. They are neither people or citizens.

[rock]

9. Let me jump right on that boat with you!

Just like guns and bombs. Inanimate objects cannot be evil (or good). A coporation is only animate through the people that make it up.

[lpbk2713]

4. Just be careful of what corps you consider "good".

The big ones have the wherewithal to pad polls and to have the media chorus sing their praises.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. no.

"Condemning corporation seems to be the pet project of some" - "Are all corporations evil" - "The Mom and Pop company..." => strawman attack.


The condemnation is against a system that has become dysfunctional from the corruption of large corporate cartels. If you would like to address the real issue here, please do so.

[MineralMan]

11. Not a strawman at all. The statement that corporations are

evil is a common one here. I just want to explore that. I'd also like to explore the alternatives to capitalism, if anyone can describe a workable alternative. I've been unable to come up with one.

This is an honest, straightforward OP. It has nothing to do with anything but the subject of the question. That is the real issue I'm proposing as a question. Are all corporations evil? If not, why do I keep reading statements to that effect?

[H2O Man]

14. Public schools are nice.

Public highways are superior to turnpikes.

[MineralMan]

16. How would government grocery stores be?

Government trucking companies? Government auto makers? Are those things feasible?

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Yes all of those things are feasible.

You might not like the restricted choice, but certainly governments can and do provide goods and services. By the way the postal service is a 'gummint trucking company' that provide a service that enables commerce, communication, and connections to communities that capitalist enterprises simply could not provide as there is no profit in it.

If 'some people' stated that 'all corporations are evil' they misstated or grossly over-simplified the progressive left view on modern capitalism. The issue is not one of good or evil. The Great Satan is not holding court in Jackson Hole this week. The issue we are faced with, which as I stated earlier one of the chief symptom of which is the blatant dysfunctional corruption of this republic, are way more complicated and interesting than this fake binary morality play you want to have fun with.

For example:
This system is ruining the planet. It is very successful at generating vast wealth, mountains of consumer goods, and passive consumer societies, but it is based on a model of continuous growth and assumes infinite resources while it concurrently avoids almost all the 'externalities' associated with its orgy of production. As the post industrial societies of western europe and north america burn up the remaining supplies of cheap oil, destabilizing the ecosphere in the process, billions of outsiders are striving to live the same way we do. Is capitalism in its current form really the only option? If it is we are in serious trouble.

[H2O Man]

35. Blended economies

have some advantages. I'm not sure that having everything socialized is the ideal solution. But certainly with capitalism, there are areas where strict regulations are necessary.

[izquierdista]

6. They have only one organizing principle

To make money. Anything else breaches their fiduciary duty to their shareholders. If the old saying that "the love of money is the root of all evil" is true, then all corporations grow from evil roots. Any shaping or pruning or topiary that makes it look like a duck isn't going to make it quack and lay eggs.

I say to get rid of the evil, we have to go back to the early 19th century model of limited duration corporations of fixed capital. When their duration is up or they run out of capital, they need to be liquidated, and the profits left over distributed back to the investors.

[Silent3]

7. Nuance gets in the way of a good self-righteous rant

So yes, all corporations are evil, Big Pharma makes nothing but poison, all corporately produced food is poison, and capitalism is killing the planet.

[MineralMan]

13. OK, you've made the very statement that is the one that prompted

this OP. I'm glad you joined the thread. Again, are ALL corporations evil? Is all business evil? I ask because many corporations are simply small businesses. At one time, my one-person business was incorporated. It was a corporation, but it was not evil in any way.

[Silent3]

28. I hope you realize I made that "very statement" sarcastically.

Of course corporations aren't evil, nor or they good. Without proper oversight and regulation, however, and if people of good conscience are the least likely to gain power and influence in the business world, you're going to have to expect "evil" results.

What bothers me about people who rant against corporations and capitalism, is that, much like the teabaggers who rant against "government", they seldom have good alternatives to propose, can't be bothered with dealing with the obstacles and downsides of changing (or "tearing down!!!") what they oppose, and they fail to see how problems of basic human nature will also screw up alternative ways of conducting business, commerce, and societal organization.

My big problem with corporations is this: "Socialize the risk, privatize the gain". That is essentially the reasons corporations exist. A small amount of that concept isn't actually a bad idea -- it helps provide an extra incentive for the kind of risk taking that is needed in a dynamic and innovative economy, which, when it works right, rewards society as a whole for sharing these risks not by cutting society a bigger slice of the pie, but by growing the size of the pie.

The problem is that society isn't driving hard enough a bargain for being willing to back some of the risk of corporate failure -- risk that takes the form of unpaid debts when a corporation fails, without recourse to much of the personal wealth of the owners of a failed corporation to defray those unpaid debts.

What we really should be saying to people who want to establish corporations is this: "You want to maximize personal wealth? You want a freer hand in anything that's "just business" and doesn't risk or harm anyone but your willing business partners? Fine. But your personal fortunes and personal property are all on the hook. You want to protect yourself from some of that personal risk, you want to form an LLC or corporation? OK, then, but here's the deal... higher taxes on your profits, better pay for your employees, better working conditions, these obligations to the communities where you do business...", etc., etc.

[H2O Man]

10. Corporations

are not limited to capitalism.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. Hell no, too bad there isn't a rating system, something that could

pin a threat level to them so to speak. Someone would have a cow over that though.

[MineralMan]

15. Actually, that sounds like a very good idea. A rating system

for corporations. How might we come up with something like that? How would we rate them, and on what criteria? This is interesting.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

34. Let their employees rate them number one, let them be rated on

their environmental impact and most importantly rate them on their greed.

Greenpeace might have a say, labor unions and perhaps consumer affairs.

Come to think of it, we already have this service at our fingertips.


http://www.bbb.org/us/consumers/


http://www.bbb.org/us/Find-Business-Reviews/
Check Out a Business or Charity

[valerief]

17. What does "evil" mean? nt

[MineralMan]

18. In this instance, I'd define evil as "destructive of society."

I'd include all ramifications of that, from causing death to destroying the environment. You can add any other criteria you wish.

[valerief]

20. Well, if no controls are in place to restrain corporations and corporations are

designed to be self-gratifying with no satiety level, then, yes, corporations are inherently evil. Cancer puts cells to work but kills the host in the end just like unrestrained corporations.

[varelse]

19. I think I'll follow this for a while, just to see

if there are any detailed replies with examples of "good corporate citizenship".

[phasma ex machina]

21. US Bank tried to refuse TARP funds, but that made the banksters look bad, so the powers-that-be

twisted US Bank's arm until they too took TARP funding, at least temporarily.

BTW. Note the absence of bank failures last Friday. The powers-that-be didn't want any poopers ruining "Helicopter" Ben's Jackson bash.

[sandnsea]

23. Yes, all banks were required to take TARP money

So people wouldn't panic and make the situation worse.

But there is NO bank that is not guilty of shoving these no interest loans off on unsuspecting people. Not even your local bank. They all need to suffer some of the consequences of their shitty lending practices, which they continue with, by the way.

[sandnsea]

22. Multinationals? YES

Don't diminish the damage gigantic global corporations do to everybody in the entire world by comparing them to the little mom and pop s corp. They aren't remotely the same thing and everybody knows it.

[MrScorpio]

25. I watched "The Corporation"

And I agree with its premise that they're sociopathic.

[hack89]

26. Not the one that writes my pay check. nt

[boston bean]

27. you are being simplistic

Corporatism is bad.

Corporations controlling public policy is bad.

We are on a road to corporatism and moving away from capitalism.

Your post is a strawman, mineralman.

[FooshIt]

29. since they exist only for profit then yes they are evil

[Bonhomme Richard]

30. No. Just as all people are not evil. Those that cannot be civil

in society are punished. The same needs to apply to corporations.

[Nay]

31. All corporations are AMORAL. They are not people--no matter what

the Supreme Court says--and cannot be moral or immoral.

That said, people who own/run corporations can be any mix of moral and immoral, and can run their corporations however they want within the law. The pressure on corporations to act against the well being of real people is immense and many go into bankruptcy if they try to be "too" moral and give decent wages, keep jobs in the US, etc. This is where we have lost our way -- stiff, enforced laws against the worst that corporations can do is really the only thing keeping them in line. When the sociopaths who own the largest corporations decide to buy politicians, ship jobs overseas, and do other hurtful things, they are most often rewarded with great profits. Only taking the great profit out of such actions for EVERY corporation will level the playing field and be generally beneficial to people at large.

[DailyGrind51]

32. You have to ask a few questions.

How does management treat its employees?

What is the difference between what the CEO earns v. the average worker?

Are workers fairly compensated? Do they enjoy reasonable benefits? Are they permitted time off to deal with personal problems?

Is management transparent with its financial documents?

Are facilities environmentally safe for both workers and the greater community?

Are products submitted to rigorous quality controls prior to distribution?

If the answers are in the affirmative for all of these questions, the corporation is a good and responsible corporate citizen.

[Odin2005]

33. By definition, yes.

Because it is involved with the left of wealth created by the workers.