On Iraq: They Got Away With It

[Yavin4]

They outright lied us into a war, and they got away with it scott free. Not one inquiry. Not one investigation. Nothing from the policy makers. Nothing from the media. Nothing.

More than anything else this is why we're in decline as a nation.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Do you use 'scott' free as a group?

I am perfectly willing to take down Scots if they get in my way.

[cascadiance]

5. I think Scott Ritter was trying to help take them down...

so probably wouldn't be useful to take that Scott down...

[babylonsister]

2. I don't know. Saddam is gone. Is that good or bad?

Are Iraqis better off or worse? It was idiot son's choice to do this. The lives he influenced negatively are astounding. I hope they don't get away with it in the history books and talking heads.

[Poboy]

4. Defending the Invasion and policy of preemptive war? wow

Besides this OP was about the various criminality of the enterprise.

[babylonsister]

10. Get lost. I wasn't defending anything. Nice try. nt

[EFerrari]

15. Come on, the illegal arrest, show trial and brutal execution of a former CIA asset

has to have some value. :sarcasm:

[NoSheep]

31. It's worse than it was when he was still in power. So I'd say that's bad.

[Raster]

35. Saddam gone: good or bad... for who?

Certainly good for the oil corporations. All of that lovely oil and natural gas is now in the hands of the petroleum mafia and cartels.

Are the Iraqis better off or worse? According to the Iraqis themselves: worse, much worse. At least under Saddam they had electricity and running water. The infrastructure of their country has been destroyed as have 1,000,000 INNOCENT Iraqi citizens.

[wiggs]

36. Big oil thinks it's good. Iran thinks it's good. So do Kurds. Turkey not so much, Iraqiis

not so much. The 7 years have been MUCH worse for Iraqis, especially women. Aside from the 100,000 to 1,000,000 dead, there are millions injured. Depleted uranium and aftereffects in Fallujia may last for generations. Institutions and cultural treasures are lost.

No guarantee there won't be another Saddam someday because a strongman is going to be more effective in an unstable country.

We have created a vast amount of bad will and hate throughout the world.

Saddam was no threat to the US. Where are the positives that he's gone? Slightly cheaper oil? But that hasn't really happened. Some democratic foothold in the middle east? Turkey and Israel were already democratic. Iraq's democracy is more than questionable and how is that supposed to help anyway?

I don't understand how an extremely complicated, gigantic issue with legal and moral complications that could fill volumes of books gets boiled down to..."Bush's surge worked...Obama was wrong" and "the world is better off with Saddam gone".

[polly7]

37. Read this, especially the archives, and decide how much better off they are.

There were articles out almost immediately stating the Iraqi people felt they were better off under Hussein.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

What was done to Iraq and its people for oil and empire is the biggest crime in over 60 years. Abandoning them now after creating hatred between sects that used to marry, work together, where women were freer than anywhere in the ME, millions fed each day at co-ops set up for them, cultural items and buildings centuries old now ........ gone, and yeah, they got away with it. As they will in Afghanistan, and on to ............?

I hope this woman publishes her writing as a book and sells it all over the world. The lies coming out now that the coalition is 'leaving' (but not of course all those bases guarding that newly denationalized oil, the embassy / palace, not to forget all those hired mercs) is a joke. Other things'left' would be all those cluster bombs, the DU, the deformed children, the polluted rivers, Bremmer's Monsanto seed laws, and misery.

[progressoid]

42. "Are Iraqis better off or worse?"

Well, there are probably a few hundred thousand Iraqis that would prefer to at least be alive.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. "I hope they don't get away with it in the history books and talking heads." and not

in a court of law? By allowing them not to be accountable is aiding and abetting.

[Barack2theFuture]

44. are you serious?

this is the *classic* bush-cheney-ista retort to any criticism of our illegal invasion.

I set the bar pretty low around here, but you managed to get under even that with this one.

[Poboy]

3. So true. All the stolen money, torture, lying a nation into war (treason)

Laughing all the way to the bank.

[EFerrari]

12. Sending our troops into battle without proper protection.

Remember the families had to buy and send their own vests? Remember the soft sided vehicles?

And how many combat rotations have our service people endured for Bush's wars? When they come home broken, they are disallowed from treatment with the pre-existing personality disorder bullshit.

[flvegan]

6. Off the table! Get out of the past! Nothing to see here!

Sorry, trying to keep my DLC talking points sharp.

[lib2DaBone]

7. The was is over (except for the new Blackwater Mercenaries we are sending in)

[tabatha]

19. I thought the Iraqi PM wants all contractors out.

[G_j]

8. it's official!

war crimes are
OK

[Poll_Blind]

9. Yes.

The reality of it is as phantasmagoric as watching jets fly into the World Trade Center towers on September 11th. Watching those horrific acts changed me in some ways but the knowledge that the Greater Crime which followed will go unpunished is changing my world view and will continue to for the rest of my life.

PB

[bbgrunt]

11. this country no longer has any honor. Maybe

Beckerhead has the right meme, just the wrong rationale. We will never regain any honor until we hold those responsible to account.

[BeFree]

13. What? Huh?

You mean you can NOT actually trust the government?

Yeah, that will force a decline on a nation.

I am praying for an October surprise such as a headline exclaiming:
"Bush Indicted"

[BeHereNow]

14. Yavin, take a look at the C-Span video I posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9053972&mesg_id=9053972

Bugliosi on the his book, The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder."

I refuse to let that video be swept into the memory hole.

It truly reveals what a SHAM our Congress and government is.

BHN

[Hannah Bell]

16. +100

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[AndyA]

24. I didn't exclude Congress.

But we know Obama also can help set the agenda, and he hasn't.

Sorry that the facts are that Obama hasn't done such a great job in this area, inconvenient for you perhaps. Put your head back up your --- and continue on with your unenlightened delight of our current situation.

:eyes:

[Yavin4]

30. Again, You Throw Away A Line About Congress

And then use your post to attack Obama. That's all that DU has become.

[AndyA]

34. No, there are two factions at DU when it comes to Obama.

Those who see things as they really are, realizing that Obama isn't Superman, but that he hasn't given some things a 100 percent effort, either.

And those who insist he's wonderful, has kept all his promises, and must not be criticized at all.

Even Obama has told us to hold him accountable. Well, if we don't complain and let our feelings be known, we aren't holding him accountable.

People need to take off the rose colored glasses and realize that many of the failures the last two years can be traced back to Obama's failure to commit, failure to pursue, and failure to ensure fairness and that there was no conflict of interest. No, he can't do it all by himself, but he can take the leadership role and lead the way, which he has not done.

Facts matter, and the fact is that Obama has not been an effective leader.

[mmonk]

20. And it is why we are permanently divided as I knew we would be.

[chill_wind]

21. And they governed fully certain they would. And we're left to merely "study" it.

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too. We're history's actors and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

[hootinholler]

22. The real question is why they've gotten away with it so far...

There is no statute of limitation on war crimes or murder.

-Hoot

[blindpig]

23. They were let off the hook. n/t

[Lost4words]

25. I agree with you 100%

[CanonRay]

26. Yes, they got away with it

and if the Rethugs re-take the House, you're going to see investigations like you've never seen before: Acorn, Obama's ex-reverend, Michelle's trip to Spain, you name it, all leading up to impeachment. That's the thanks obama will get for "looking forward, not backward." You heard it here.

[JohnnyBoots]

32. I agree. The only silver lining I can maybe see is that

people will actually start to realize how rediculous and do nothing the Republicans are. Bush gets to skate for everything, yet Obama is impeached for using a salad fork to eat desert. It is doubtful this will happen - people seeing the truth - especially with the 24 hour coporate spin machine media....Pretty sure we're all fucked.

[Solly Mack]

27. Yes

They were allowed to get away with it

[raccoon]

28. Yeah. Like we were expecting something different? K&R. nt

[spanone]

29. and we created an entire nation of terrorists who will 'get us' for generations

[joeybee12]

33. Hey..I'm reccing one of your posts!

You're absolutely right on this.

[bvar22]

38. It is a War Crime to cover up War Crimes.

The USA is REQUIRED by several International Treaties to investigate possible War Crimes.

[Count Olaf]

39. They have been getting away with everything!

Great song-

You Got Away With It- by Todd Snider


(A Tale Of Two Fraternity Brothers)

The tale of two brothers...a memoir
Remember that kid we beat up back in college
Me, you, and Thompson out in front of the frat
And that hippie went home crying to his parents
I can't believe you got us out of that
How sweet was that
God we were drunk
Drove around all night after it with that keg in the trunk
And when the cop pulled us over
You talked us out of that, too

You got away with it
You got away
You get away with
The things that you say

I had to quit partying about a year and a half after you did
I don't regret it though, I think it was fun
Besides, it was the 70's
We were a couple of rich kids
And aside from that one hippie
We never really hurt anyone
Well, there's that other thing that I won't even say
As God as my witness I'll take that to my grave
Cause that was an accident
And you did what you had to do

You got away with it
You got away
You get away with
The things that you say
I worry forever
Never for you
You'll get away with it
You always do

You never did tell me what happened with you and your brother down there in Florida
I heard they gave you a hell of a time
Everybody around here was afraid you might lose
I told them not to worry cause I knew you'd be fine
Had me out here to Camp David a few times over the years
I think the first time we were teenagers sneakin' beers
Look at you now you old son of a bitch
You got the run of this place
Unbelievable

You got away with it
You got away
You got away with
The things that you say
I worry forever
Never for you
You'll get away with it
You always do
You'll get away with
This new thing too

[chill_wind]

40. And now they know for real they can do it again. Bigger and better

eom

[earth mom]

41. Kicker is-they got a slick, well spoken & pretty guy named Obama to do their dirty work for them.

Amazing that so many fell for and are still buying into the slick but totally fake hope & change they sold everyone! :crazy: