Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Not the Bush 'surge', but rather prior completion of ethnic cleansing. calmed Iraq: Satellite images

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:39 AM
Original message
Not the Bush 'surge', but rather prior completion of ethnic cleansing. calmed Iraq: Satellite images
"... the surge has had no observable effect" (See last paragraph below).

The "success" of the surge in Iraq is a convenient Republican lie, according to scientific evidence from satellite images of declining populations in minority Sunni neighborhoods. Did you miss this two-year-old report?

Why did Democrats ultimately give up pointing out the obvious truth and and go along with the Republican deception?

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION?

IMAGE: http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20080919&t=2&i=6073224&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2008-09-19T202401Z_01_N19530660_RTRUKOP_0_PICTURE0

From http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1953066020080919 :

'Satellite images show ethnic cleanout in Iraq. By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor; Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:24pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Satellite images taken at night show heavily Sunni Arab neighborhoods of Baghdad began emptying before a U.S. troop surge in 2007, graphic evidence of ethnic cleansing that preceded a drop in violence, according to a report published on Friday. The images support the view of international refugee organizations and Iraq experts that a major population shift was a key factor in the decline in sectarian violence, particularly in the Iraqi capital....

Minority Sunni Arabs were driven out of many neighborhoods by Shiite militants enraged by the bombing of the Samarra mosque in February 2006. The bombing, blamed on the Sunni militant group al Qaeda, sparked a wave of sectarian violence. "By the launch of the surge, many of the targets of conflict had either been killed or fled the country, and they turned off the lights when they left," geography professor John Agnew of the University of California Los Angeles, who led the study, said in a statement. "Essentially, our interpretation is that violence has declined in Baghdad because of intercommunal violence that reached a climax as the surge was beginning," said Agnew, who studies ethnic conflict.

Some 2 million Iraqis are displaced within Iraq, while 2 million more have sought refuge in neighboring Syria and Jordan. Previously religiously mixed neighborhoods of Baghdad became homogenized Sunni or Shiite Muslim enclaves. The study, published in the journal Environment and Planning A, provides more evidence of ethnic conflict in Iraq, which peaked just before U.S. President George W. Bush ordered the deployment of about 30,000 extra U.S. troops.

The extent to which the troop build-up helped halt Iraq's slide into sectarian civil war has been debated, particularly in the United States, with supporters of the surge saying it was the main contributing factor, and others arguing it was simply one of a number of factors. "Our findings suggest that the surge has had no observable effect, except insofar as it has helped to provide a seal of approval for a process of ethno-sectarian neighborhood homogenization that is now largely achieved," Agnew's team wrote in their report....'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you, anonymous recommender
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. LINK to full report by John Agnew (UCLA) is at
http://www.truth-out.org/false-advertising-about-iraq-surge60326 ,
an article from June 2010.

Sometimes academics back down from their original findings in response to peer criticism. Not this time, apparently,; Agnew stands behind his 2008 report findings two years later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Wouldn't John Agnew make a great potential guest for Rachel Maddow or
some other intelligent TV or cable political show this week?

He'd potentially be a great counter to renewed demands on Fox "News" from Rs that Obama properly acknowledge Dubya's "genius" for the wonderful success of the 2007 "surge" in Iraq.

How come I've never seen John Agnew on TV? Have any of you ever seen or heard him speak? Is his "TVQ" high enough for him to appear?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Agnew's co-author on the surge study, Thomas W. Gillespie (UCLA), actually DID appear on Rachel
Maddow's show a year ago, apparently, but he talked about another study co-authored with Agnew, not this one. See http://geospatial.posterous.com/using-geography-to-find-osama-bin-laden .

Does anyone recall seeing this show? How was Gillespie as a guest? Was he boring?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. This Fact, Sir, Was Much Remarked On At The Time
It was obvious to anyone who had been following events with any seriousness.

People had largely run out of neighbors to kill, and the Sunni groups had consented to accept bribes to remain quiescent. The soldiers just came in and policed up boundaries and stragglers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thank you, sir--I remember it well. But have you heard or seen this argument in the media
during the last year and a half? I have not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. No, Sir, Nor Will You: It Is Not The 'Official Story'
It will be the gist of every serious historical account of the matter, however.

Small comfort that, of course....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. "it will be the gist of every serious historical account" And Agnew's creative use
of satellite imegery for scientific evidence of ethnic cleansing surely will be part of such accurate historical accounts, unlike the 'official stroy' now pushed by incurious and bought-and-paid-for "infotainment".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. the surge was merely a tactic in an illegal unwarranted war...part of the crime
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes--thanks for the bigger picture reminder. But did the tactic have the desired
effect--putting the bigger picture aside for a moment?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Right. Did you see Begala make a similar point last night vs Fleischer on
AC360? It was a HARSH and accurate put down of the recent meme that Bush was right and Obama was wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I thought Fleischer had QUIT lying for Dubya. Unlike his successor Dana Perino.
isn't Ari way too smart to believe what he might have to say to make a few bucks?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. good points. Plus, Obama's claim was that the surge may not be necessary...
not that things wouldn't be calmer afterward.

PLUS....the surge was supposed to create the political space for increased security and stability. Can we really say this has occurred?

MSM and Fox are hammering away at how wrong Obama was. Bright spot: Paul Begala laid the wood to Ari Fleisher last night on AC360, which isn't easy. Among other things, Begala was appalled that Fleischer would have wanted more pats on Bush's back from Obama for resolving the war. Begala, with much devastating detail, said that we would be willing to give Bush ALL the credit for the surge if Bush would take just HALF the credit for the war nightmare in the first place. It was great.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Paul Begala always did have all the facts at his command. I miss "Crossfire".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC