Maybe some old-fashioned values weren't so bad after all.....

[LiberalLoner]

When I was growing up, I was really into women's lib and everything modern. Like many young women of my time, I didn't really appreciate the homemaking role and thought it an inferior choice to choosing a career. I am so ashamed now of myself for having thought that as a young woman.

Now that I'm older and hopefully slightly less stupid (but still pretty stupid I'll admit), I can see there is really a lot of value in being a homemaker. I look back on the days of my grandmother making apple butter from scratch from her McIntosh trees and baking cookies and cooking delicious meals, and the days my mother created beautiful crocheted and knitted items that really were works of art, and now I get it - I get the love and the sacrifice that those choices entailed.

I think about the sacrifices mothers make every day for their children, and all the hard work. I wasn't as grateful to women who had children as I should have been. These days, when I see a toddler crying in the grocery store, and a harried mother, I make sure to smile and say "you have a beautiful son (or daughter)" as I pass by. Because the way I see it, she's doing all that hard work for all of us, for society in general, and I owe her.

I wish my mother were still alive so I could tell her how much the memories of the home-cooked meals she made for me mean to me.

I'm baking some brownies from scratch as I type this, and I feel a connection to my mother, to my grandmother, to all the women throughout time who have taken the time and effort to cook for their families. Decades ago, I might have felt sheepish admitting I spent time baking brownies from scratch. Not today.

I wonder, with the economy in a never-ending downturn, if these old-fashioned pleasures and values will come back into style. Maybe we will pull back, as a society, from the idea that a person's value is measured solely by how much they earn and how many degrees they have and their possessions.

[Taverner]

1. I can't wait for the time where I can throw my cloak over a water puddle...

So that a woman passing by won't get her feet wet :evilgrin:

[LiberalLoner]

2. LOL okay, maybe some things seem dumb to us today, but...

well, maybe there is something to be said for consideration for our fellow humans, whether they are men or women. I know how silly and childish this sounds, but I long for a kinder, gentler world. I want a nicer society. I want Stuart Smalley as my neighbor, LOL, and Mr. Rogers too.

[bobbolink]

20. Consideration and care for others sounds silly and childish?

That's why we are where we are. :(

[LiberalLoner]

22. It's true. But you wouldn't believe how many times in recent decades

people I've worked with, etc. have said "you're too nice" and made fun of me. And all I tried to do was be a decent person.

[bobbolink]

24. It is truly our choice whether we decide to be a member of the Harsh Brigade, or whether we choose

to keep the values we know builds, rather than destroys, a healthy culture.

That is why we need to create sanctuaries for those of us who are more sensitive and caring.... to have a place to be renewed and accepted as we are.

I appreciate my Indian friends for demonstrating to me there is another way, and that we *can* decide to create this for ourselves.

[LiberalLoner]

26. :) I'm hoping all the time we choose that better way. I'm wondering if the bad economy

will shake us up enough as a society that we will finally choose a better way. Although I hate the bad economy, I hate how people are suffering. It sucks.

[Jim__]

3. I don't believe that it's ever been accepted that a person's value is based on their income or ...

... education.

Of course there are people who push those values as universal; but, I believe most people have enough sense to reject them.

[LiberalLoner]

6. I think you are right...I think I just see a lot of people caught in the rat race

because I live in NoVa and it's kind of career-oriented here, a lot of struggling to get up the career ladder.

[bobbolink]

4. I recently came back from visiting people who fiercely maintain those values.

They are the first inhabitants of this land, and while keeping their ancient traditions, they serve family and visitors alike... sometimes hundreds in one home! They exude acceptance and hospitality... it is truly a gift!

And all they do and give isn't considered a hardship... it is viewed as a sacrifice for their community... for the world.

In their dances they pray for their village, for their crops, for the life of the world, and for all of us.

They are wonderful people who really GET what life is about, and I am so fortunate to know them! I come back renewed and refreshed, with my own values sharpened.

And I love them for it.

[LiberalLoner]

7. That sounds so wonderful! They sound like a wonderful culture! Would

I be too nosy if I asked where this was, what culture, etc.? Just really curious... I'm glad you had a good experience. Did you want to stay there? I would have wanted to stay there I think.

[bobbolink]

16. Pueblo Indians of New Mexico. There are several Feast Days within a relatively short time in August

The dances always transport me, and leave me with a deep sense of peace.

Courtesy of my favorite painter, Pablita Velarde:


That looks very similar to the Pumpkin kiva at Santo Domingo Pueblo, (now formally returned to the original name of the village, Kewa.)

Not being Indian, I couldn't live there. But having made friends there over the years, and being welcomed into their homes is my idea of heaven.

[LiberalLoner]

18. Thank you! :) What a beautiful painting, thank you for sharing it! I have

read some of the predictions/prophesies of some of tribal leaders in that part of the country and feel there is such wisdom there.

[lukasahero]

5. As long as women (and men) are allowed to make the choice

People should do what works for them. People who judge others probably shouldn't.

I was, and still am, big into women's lib. That has nothing to do with denigrating the choices women make for themselves.

[LiberalLoner]

8. That's a really good way of looking at things! n/t

[FreeState]

9. There is nothing better than home baked goods - however a Man can be a homemaker too

I know quite a few stay at home Dads who do it all (by choice).

I'm hoping the economy will in a way force people to return to their nutritional roots and homemaking roots (for both sexes). I've been taking baking classes for almost a year now and all the classes are about 40% men 60% women (of the women at least 20% of them are retired, all the men are a bit younger and unemployed or working but not of retirement age - Im guessing that has to do with age and sexism but I have nothing to back that up with, just my hunch).

[LiberalLoner]

11. Oh, that's true! I know of some men who have done this and are the most wonderful

fathers and homemakers you could ever want to see.

I'm glad to see that there is a renewed interest in cooking and baking, too. I know so many don't have the time, energy or money to cook from scratch, but for those who do, I feel it's a real pleasure and I was sad that of so many I knew of my generation, so few felt that cooking was a valuable activity. When I lived in an apartment complex, I literally never once saw anyone offloading groceries, but I saw the pizza delivery man several times each evening...

[seabeyond]

56. i have a brother that is a nurturer. his wife, not so much. the worst thing in their marriage

he was the provider and she stayed home. adopting the tradition roles were all wrong for them. and marriage lasted a decade. it really should have been the other way around and would have been much healthier fitting each others strengths much better.

i agree. roles have to be fluid.

[gratuitous]

10. The feminists I knew and ran with

The 1970s-era feminists I knew didn't take a dim view of women who were homemakers. Indeed, it seemed one area of the society where women didn't need a lot of help to survive and succeed, and even the worst male chauvinist pig was content with a woman who remained at home, preferably uncompensated for the work she did. The real fight seemed to be in the work force, the political arena, and practically anywhere else. To some undiscerning eyes this appeared to be antipathy toward homemakers on the part of feminists, but as has been said, "Those who are healthy have no need of a physician."

But I am glad to hear that you too have found a measure of happiness in doing "traditional" woman's work. The struggle was and is not for that sphere; the struggle is against being restricted to only that sphere.

[LiberalLoner]

12. I didn't realize that...as a young woman, I really felt a lot of pressure from articles I read

in magazines, TV shows, etc. to have a career and not get married young, etc. At least I felt like I was under pressure to choose that way, but maybe it was just my experience, not common to others of my generation.

[antigone382]

39. Well, I'd say there is definitely a need to reassess the value of the work done in that sphere.

Cooking, housekeeping, and child-rearing serve critical social needs, but don't carry nearly the same prestige (and certainly none of the income) as the activity that goes on outside the home. That women should be allowed into the public sphere is unquestionable; but also important is that the work we have done and the roles we have played should be viewed with more esteem, and should be emulated by both sexes. Though things are continuing to improve, there is still a large statistical disparity between men and women in the time spent doing household chores, and I believe a large part of that is the stigma attached to men doing "women's work." That's why I don't really mind when men are praised for taking care of the kids or doing the cooking or cleaning. It may be unfair for men to be praised for work that women are simply expected to do, but I think at this point that work needs to be socially rewarded for its perceived social value to be enhanced.

[no_hypocrisy]

13. One can be a feminist and homemaker at the same time.

No contradictions in doing both, so long as it's your decision and it's neither a command nor a Hobson's Choice.

[LiberalLoner]

15. :) Now I have to look up "Hobson's Choice" because I don't understand the

allusion, LOL.

Yeah, it is my decision, although poor health kind of forced me into it. I'm somewhat better now, but still not 100%, and am so grateful for the slower pace I can take in the home when I need to. For awhile I was ashamed of being a homemaker, and really struggled with that, but I really have come to see that I'm doing something of value, even if I'm not getting paid for it.

[no_hypocrisy]

31. Hobson's Choice is no choice or rather, only one choice.

Look, as long as you find satisfaction and even divertisement (it's interesting) in your housework, go for it!

[LiberalLoner]

32. Thank you. :) I looked it up - interesting! "Take the horse nearest the

entrance or none at all..." I like it! :)

[sinkingfeeling]

14. I chose to do both. I made cakes and cookies from scratch, knitted my kid's sweaters, and

still climbed the corporate ladder. I just didn't get to spend my days with my son and we did move across the country several (7) times as I continued up the ladder.

[LiberalLoner]

17. That's wonderful! I really admire what you've done. I never felt like I had the energy to

do much of anything else when I was an Army Officer - I'd come home and crash, basically. I've always been a low-energy person though and have always needed an insane amount of sleep. I really admire people who are so productive and who accomplish so much.

[cyberswede]

19. Live Simply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living

Simple living is a lifestyle characterized by consuming only that which is required to sustain life. Adherents may choose simple living for a variety of personal reasons, such as spirituality, health, increase in 'quality time' for family and friends, reducing their personal ecological footprint, stress reduction, personal taste or frugality. Others cite socio-political goals aligned with the anti-consumerist movement, including conservation, degrowth, social justice, ethnic diversity and sustainable development.

The book "A Painted House" reminded me a lot of what you discuss (though I'm not usually a big fan of John Grisham). The lives of the protagonists he describes seem difficult, but appealing at the same time.

Also, "Little Heathens" describes rural life in a similar way. (http://www.little-heathens.com/book/index.html)

I enjoyed your post - thanks!

[LiberalLoner]

21. Thank you so much! Those links look very interesting, and I am very

intrigued by the book! My mother grew up as a farm girl, getting up early to milk the cow, and on her mother's side, the family descended from the Amish. My great-grandmother chose to leave the Amish life. Sometimes I wonder how my life would have gone if my great-grandmother had remained Amish and all her descendants too, including me.

My grandfather on my Mom's side was born in Sweden but raised in the U.S. He used to speak Swedish to make us kids laugh - we'd laugh because it sounded so sing-song to us. The village he was born in doesn't exist anymore, but it was a small village way up north in Sweden. (I'm guessing by your user name that you are Swedish or have some Swedish ancestry?)

[cyberswede]

38. We have an Amish community nearby

I'm always intrigued by the Amish people I encounter. I wonder how happy/satisfied they are with their lives, or how much the modern environment infringes on them. A few years back I attended a huge outdoor fireworks exhibition and spotted a half-dozen Amish men standing around their van (not all of them eschew motor vehicles) passing around a bag of Doritos. I should have taken a picture - the juxtaposition was really funny. :)

My mom and dad grew up during the Depression, so a simple life was more a necessity than a choice. My dad's mother died when he was 8, and he and his brothers were all sent to a children's home (his father and sister stayed on the farm and visited the boys on Sundays). My mother's family also lived in the country, and they actually ate snow with molasses on it as a dessert. They wore homemade clothes and grew much of their own food, and had to wear hand-me-down shoes, whether they fit quite right or not.

And yes, I'm 3/4 Swedish. My grandmother's family spoke Swedish at home, but she didn't remember very much of it by the time I came along. :)

I hope you get a chance to read "Little Heathens" - it's a great book, and the author is very interesting!

[pipi_k]

49. Same here only it's Mennonites

with a booming business making furniture.

Beautiful, quality furniture.

And a few other little side businesses, like a pastry/ice cream shop, roadside stands selling fruits and vegies from their gardens, etc.

They built a church in just a few days with help from a whole slew of members.

The people dress in the traditional fashion and we often see them down in the "big city" nearby doing shopping and stuff.

They always look so....content.

:)

[handmade34]

33. "Live simply- So that others may simply live"

on my bumper until my car went... and we know that it is not money or power that brings happiness (just a shield against the harshness of life sometimes)

All my experience teaches me that wellbeing and happiness come from connection with community and caring for each other, whether it be from baking bread for a neighbor, helping to build them a house or teaching new skills to a group.

[LiberalLoner]

34. That is great wisdom! n/t

[seabeyond]

57. this is really the best. works so well all the way around in balance.... nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. "Your money or your life" was an epiphany to me. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

23. not a matter of "values". a matter of economics. capitalism destroys all such values.

"feminism" = more workers for the machine.

[bobbolink]

25. While I understand what you are pointing out, my Indian friends live in the midst of capitalism,

one foot in each world, and still maintain their traditional values of sharing and simple life.

It can be done, and if done with love, will eventually destroy capitalism.

[LiberalLoner]

27. Oh, boy, I wish that would happen. I'm not liking capitalism ever since I saw

the movie by Michael Moore about capitalism.

[bobbolink]

29. We have these choices, and can make it so, one step at a time.

Our problem is our Rugged Individualism, and we are so steeped in it that we don't even see it in ourselves, and what it is doing to us.

We can see this everyday, right here at DU.... "Its all about *me*, and I don't care if my words hurt you, I will say what I feel like saying."

As long as we cling to that, nothing will change. It is truly up to us. I am serious when I talk about a refuge, a sanctuary. A place of acceptance for renewal.

There are so many choices we could make, right now, right today, to live differently, but we REFUSE to look at our own selfishness, our own control, our own barriers to community.

We all have them, and we can choose to do the hard work of NoT having those barriers, or we can continue with the pain those barriers cause us.

[eleny]

28. I wish your mom could be there with you, too

You've described this nostalgic time so well. I miss my mom, too.

When my aunt does certain things she says that she does them that way to carry on the ways of her mom, my grandma. I think it's sweet. And your sweet, too, for remembering your mom while you're baking.

[LiberalLoner]

30. Thank you. :) I'm sorry you've lost your Mom, too. It's a hard loss.

[SheilaT]

35. I'm old enough to

have been in the workforce when women were routinely not hired just because they were female, married, and therefore assumed that one day they would become pregnant. And I saw women being routinely let go from a job just because they were pregnant.

I became an ardent feminist, never had a career, only some jobs. I did stay home to raise my two sons, and I'm very glad I did so. It has always enraged me that the world of work makes it very hard for a person to be a parent, father or mother, and advance in a career. Yes, there are women that manage to do so, but somewhere along the line there's a cost. No job should demand an eighty hour commitment. Everyone needs time for themselves, whatever family they may have, involvement in the community or church or whatever. We need to have, collectively, a more sensible idea of what life is about.

Personally, I love baking cookies and cakes from scratch. Can't knit, but I like to crochet. Love to read and listen to music. I even do some volunteer work feeding the homeless at a local church (not a member myself, but good friends with someone who is). Others would do different things. There's nothing wrong with working. There's nothing wrong with staying home. We all need to honor and appreciate honest choices. And we all need to be truly free to make such choices.

[LiberalLoner]

43. So true! It makes me mad too that the workplace isn't more flexible. n/t

[gulliver]

36. We think we can do without things we can't do without.

We think we can do without free time, wild open spaces, spending long lengths of time bonding with our kids and visiting with each other, recess, neighborhoods, civic-mindedness, physical labor, empathy... It's all being optimized away to make spreadsheets look better.

Liberals are the ones who can save the traditional values, ironically. The conservative laissez-faire dogma creates a huge bait-and-switch. Mom's apple pie mutates into bait for a profit hook. Freedom turns into social and fiscal anarchy. George W. Bush was President of the United States of America.

[LiberalLoner]

44. I never thought of it that way, but you are right! n/t

[Dappleganger]

37. Just received a box full of cookbooks

that were inherited from my mother, and it really brought back memories while flipping through the pages which were often spattered with the ingredients we'd used together.

BTW, my husband is also fond of cooking and our kids have a strong connection with him while being in the kitchen. I don't see it as a mother thing so much but as a parenting tie we have with cooking and doing things in the home, or just making special memories. Any dad can do this and most of them have done it.

[LiberalLoner]

48. What a wonderful gift to inherit! I'm so glad you have those good memories! I am sorry

for your loss of your Mom though. I know that's a tough loss. No matter what age you are, you feel kind of like an orphan for a moment when you hear the bad news.

I just realized I was being sexist in my post and implying only moms cooked and baked...I feel bad about that. I know a lot of men who are great cooks and great bakers - and when I think of it, almost all the famous chefs I've heard of have been men! I was just thinking in my family, it was the women who cooked and baked and it gives me so much comfort to feel a connection with the women who went before me in my family. So that was what was in my mind when I posted.

[blueworld]

40. Yours is a beautiful post & I thank you.

Over the last several weeks I've been pretty busy canning & freezing & cooking & drying my own large harvest. My husband & I have a large garden & the greatest fun preserving these things & sharing them with our son & his family.

I think you are correct that these values are being more honored recently because the absolute trust we all put into industrial food prep etc. is seen to be slightly less than perfect!

It does definitely save money & provide satisfaction & express love...all the things you wrote about. Unfortunately, when I was younger I simply didn't have the time to do what I can accomplish now. But I do believe these simple things do, in fact, keep us deeply connected to what's real in life.

Hi-tech is wonderful (think food processor:) but old-fashioned is wonderful too. I don't know you & I don't want to sound presumptious, but indirectly I'm proud of you & thank you again for your post. :hi:

[LiberalLoner]

45. Gosh, thank you so much! :) I really appreciate it! And kudos to you

for having a beautiful, productive garden and being able to can! I am sooo irrationally scared of canning. I just bought an "introduction to canning kit" last weekend though (am fantasizing about making my own dill pickles and canned jams someday) but then I realized, I don't have a stock pot big enough to sterilize the jars in. I'll have to go get one. But anyway I have this irrational fear that I will do something wrong and end up poisoning my husband and myself.

I had a small garden this summer and got eggplant, green bell peppers, zucchini and tons of tomatoes and herbs from it. I didn't have to buy many vegetables at all from the store this summer, which was a nice thing! I did buy some corn now and then because I love corn on the cob, but that's cheap when it's in season.

You're right, there is so much happiness in these simple pleasures of life - cooking, baking, gardening. And in our relationships with other people where we can be caring and genuine.

Oh, I totally share your view on the food processor - I keep mine out on the counter and use it several times a week usually! Such a great invention! The other great invention that I always have been glad for is an electric mixer. Although you can mix by hand, it takes quite a bit of work to whip up whipped cream or something like that.

You know, I have noticed though among young people, when I share cookies or bread or a meal with them, they are so grateful and almost surprised by home-baked or home-cooked foods! You can see in their faces that it's really something they do value, this younger generation. So maybe times are changing.

Thank you again for your kind words! :)

[old mark]

41. LL, I am a 63 year old man, and I love domesticity - I do most of the cooking,

almost all of the holiday meals - although my wife makes wonderful cakes, I make all the pies.
We have been on various diets this year, and I am looking forward to having a few great holidays to break the thread...

I hope you enjoy what you are doing - I am happy people are learning to do this before the art dies out. Cooking is absolutely a wonderful thing to be able to do.


mark

[Big Blue Marble]

42. I so agree with you.

I started cooking nearly sixty years ago when I was seven. I come from a large family.
I still after all these years, love cooking, love creating new dishes, and enjoy trying new recipes.
There is joy in the process and delight in the sharing.

What a way to bring more love in the world.

[LiberalLoner]

46. Mark, that is so wonderful! It's such a real pleasure to have home-cooked

meals that are delicious instead of something out of the freezer and microwaved! Those microwaved meals are good for when you are short on time and energy but they just don't have much soul if you ask me, LOL. I think a home-cooked meal has soul!

My husband said just today that it's not even worth it to go to a restaurant any more because he likes the meals I cook better than almost all restaurant food. We do still go out for birthdays, and other special occasions though. For instance I never cook prime rib for just the two of us so that is something I love to order on my birthday as a treat.

I love cooking and I love it even more when people like my cooking or baking! You know, I've known some people over the years who roll their eyes and laugh when I say I like to cook and bake. They say it's a waste of time and they seem to be implying I'm a simpleton for pursuing such an activity. I always just bit my tongue and let them laugh. But those people are mostly of my generation (I'm 49.) I've noticed the younger people seem to have a real appreciation for home cooking and baking, and I'm glad that people are seeing the value of it again.

[knitter4democracy]

47. We knitters are ready. :)

Those of us who spin our own yarn, knit sweaters and socks and what-all else, and love to keep the older crafts alive are all still alive and well. Many of us can and freeze and bake from scratch, too, regardless of where we work. We work with our hands, and we love it.

[LiberalLoner]

51. Oh, that's so wonderful! You know, I know this is a generalization and

I should be careful not to use generalizations, but I've noticed that the people who do these kinds of homey things, are some of the nicest, most kind-hearted people I've ever met. When I hear that a person does these kinds of things, I automatically think that this is a person I will like knowing. :)

[pipi_k]

53. Hahahaha...I'm laughing as I sit here and slogans go through my head...

One of them being:

"It's hard to be an asshole when your hands are busy"


:7

[pipi_k]

52. Knitter! Knitter!

I don't spin my own yarn, but I do love to knit (and crochet).

In today's rat race world, it's so calming.

And you get to make lots of really neat stuff.

:)

[LiberalLoner]

54. That's true! I don't knit, but I've done crewel work over the years and when I was

young I used to do macrame and really liked it. I still have one picture that I did, crewel work, and I got it framed...still hanging in a spare bedroom. And I've given gifts to relatives of stuff I've made.

[Fire1]

50. Totally agree. My mother was educated and had a career

but she ALWAYS cooked every meal from scratch. Every now and again when time did not permit the making from scratch she would order a carry out from a neighborhood diner and even those were made from scratch. Of course, that was long before the days of fast food. Indeed, those were the good ole days. I miss them.

[seabeyond]

59. we will have fast food once every couple weeks and restaurant once every couple months

or more.

in the world today, what the kids see of other families, they feel alien... lol. they like the difference. thinks it is cool.

but are really excited when they do get that fast food.

[seabeyond]

55. ah liberal, i felt the same way. there was not a chance in hell i would take role as housewife.

for so many preceived and factual reasons. to the point of scorn.

i had my first child and there was no way i was going to work and let someone else raise him

i took me a handful of years learning to be at peace in this role. about five to truly settle in without fighting it. (a second son came along)

i look back 15 yrs later, and i am so thankful and blessed by our decision and choice of creating our family in this manner and all the unknown advantages. i think back to how i preceived the role and would truly feel foolish, if i werent so accepting of our lack of ability to really understand if we are not experiencing, so i am easy on me.

but i hear you.