Heavy drinkers (supposedly) outlive non-drinkers? So what?

[Flying Squirrel]

This is in reference to the new study which claims that heavy drinkers outlive non-drinkers

Time Magazine article here: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2014332,00.html

Let's assume, for a minute, that this study has really covered all the important variables (an assumption I would tend to question) and that heavy drinkers had a 9% lower mortality rate than the non-drinkers.

(I'm going to ignore the other category, "moderate drinkers", because I believe those who are fortunate enough to be non-alcoholic probably DO live longer, so more power to 'em.)

First off, the only variable that seems to be considered in this article is whether they drank or not. Many people with mental or psychological problems or issues drink to self-medicate. So, if they quit drinking but don't get help with the problems which caused them to drink, it only stands to reason that they would be more likely to die earlier (either by suicide or some other reason). Why not take this into account in the study, and see how many former heavy drinkers WHO GOT HELP for their other problems still had a high mortality rate? Rather than lumping them all in together, as though alcohol use were the only important factor?

I don't even think I need a "Second off" paragraph, but here's one: Let's say you had a choice. You were a heavy drinker and that lifestyle was causing you nothing but misery. Let's say you had the choice to live a different lifestyle without alcohol, and that living this new lifestyle (with the proper amount of guidance and help) made you much happier. But there was this little catch: You might not live quite as long. Which would you choose, a slightly longer but miserable existence? I don't know about you, but I'd prefer a happier, albeit slightly shorter life to a longer, more miserable existence. IF that was the choice I was given. But again, as pointed out in the first paragraph, this may not even be the case, since the former heavy drinkers who did not get help for their other problems were lumped in with the rest of the non-drinkers.

End of rant. If your life is unhappy and you have even the slightest thought that alcohol may be a factor in that unhappiness, find out more. Go get an evaluation at a treatment center - answer the questions honestly and listen to the diagnosis with an open mind. And/or consider showing up at an 'open' AA meeting (defined as a meeting where anyone who is interested in learning more about alcoholism welcome to attend -- call your local office and ask about them) at least once, just to hear what some of those who have seen life from both sides have to say.

Don't just use this incomplete study as further justification for your drinking. A better life is possible.

(Edit: This is intended for those who may have a drinking problem, not for the rest of you. As I said above, if you're lucky enough to be a non-alcoholic moderate drinker, more power to you and have a drink on me.)

[babylonsister]

1. I. Want. BEER!

:beer:


:rofl:


I say, everyone should do what they want, like, and makes them feel comfortable. I'm not about to tell anyone how to act.

[RandomThoughts]

2. LOL

The funny part is I really don't like alcohol that much, it is about being around people and having fun, pool, music, and just talking with people.

Although when at the bar, I like alcohol.

Gone years without drinking by choice, and years with drinking by choice.


But nobody takes such things away from me, and that is the point of the whole beer thing. And honestly really tired of local bars, they have not been much fun for years, and was just a place to be around people. While working on other issues that need correcting.



I do realize some people shouldn't drink, but drinking is not a problem for me.


However someone saying I should not drink, that is a problem, and not my problem.



To be honest, there are things that try to change people into things some other people want them to be, and sometimes don't even know it themselves. And without an argument or learning, it is not just, nor could it be correct.

shrug, long story.

[spin]

3. I think I'll have another one before I hit the sack. (n/t)

[Fumesucker]

4. I read a discussion of this elsewhere..

You might want to check out what they call a "heavy drinker", it's not what many of us would think of when we hear that term.

[Flying Squirrel]

5. Well, they defined a moderate drinker as 1-3 per night

Which would be perhaps an 18-pack of beer or 2 bottles of wine per week. So heavy drinker would be more than that. Doesn't compute?

[Fumesucker]

7. I dunno..

I've seen too many people that put away a quart or two of vodka a day I guess, that's my idea of a "heavy drinker"..

[pink-o]

20. 1-3? Moderate???

Then I say everything in moderation! Woo-hoo!

:toast: :beer: :party:

[burnsei sensei]

6. I suppose they're well preserved. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Plus, they survive the car wrecks that kill sober people.

gotta add that factor to the equation.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. In AA we say that alcohol leads to jail, institutions and death...

And most people in the rooms know people who have faced all three. So far, I've only met those who have experienced the first two, but then I've only been in the program for 22 months... ;(

[babylonsister]

12. Props to you, Rhiannon12866~

my sister just passed 15 years. She loves the program and the people.

And I wish for you that you never know all three. :hug:

[Rhiannon12866]

17. Thank you so much.

I was anxious about reading a reply to my post because I know that many DUers don't think much of AA. However, it's worked for me, and I've seen some real miracles, so I absolutely support it. So many stories I've heard begin with "AA saved my life..." And though I had a "high bottom," I skipped over the first two and confronted the third, so have my bona fides. Kudos to your sister and thanks again for the support... I have 492 days, "One Day at a Time..." ;) :pals:

[Bobbieo]

10. My daughter sure didn't make that list of heavy drinkers.She died at 49.

[Silent3]

11. Do you have any counter-data to disprove the study?

Or is it just that the results offend you? The results don't "seem" to make sense by some personal criteria of yours, therefore that makes the results untrustworthy? You're offended that someone who doesn't drink might take the study as a recommendation to take up (or resume) drinking, therefore it can't be true?

Your complaint "the only variable that seems to be considered in this article is whether they drank or not" appears false from what the article you linked to says. The authors of the study apparently tried to factor out effects of income levels -- the health benefit of drinking, even heavy drinking, over non-drinking remained. They tried to factor out people who may no longer drink at all because they are recovering alcoholics who may have already done serious alcohol-related damage to their health before quitting drinking -- take those people out, and still the same health effects remain. They tried to factor differences in social support -- same lack of change in the results.

While it may be foolish to accept as absolute truth any single study until it has been examined and others have attempted to repeat the results, it's similarly foolish to dismiss a study just because you don't personally like the results.

By the way, I'd imagine that by the standards of this study that I drink so little -- a beer or two a month, if that, with many months going by at a time with no drinking at all -- that I probably count as a non-drinker.

Is it really all that inconceivable that alcohol would turn out to have sufficient health benefits that even excess consumption is healthier than a total lack of consumption? The idea admittedly seems strange to me, and I'm certainly not feeling all that motivated to start making myself have a drink or two per day, but the idea still doesn't seem so hugely implausible that I'd be ready to dismiss it out of hand.

Suppose the study is true. Even then, it wouldn't have to be taken as a recommendation. Despite what the popular press often does when they embellish (and sadly too often, misconstrue and distort) scientific studies, the original studies themselves often won't say, for example, if the study were about lung cancer, anything like "Smoking is terrible and you should quit now", they simply present raw data, rated for statistical significance, that quantity X of cigarette smoking leads to Y% increase in occurrence of lung cancer.

There's no reason to fault the study for possibly presenting a heavy drinker with a dilemma about whether to quit or not. The study either is true or it isn't true. The truth does not have a moral obligation to provide heavy drinkers with the maximum incentive to quit. The truth is what it is.

[KT2000]

13. mean people live long too

not based on a study - just my observations in the neighborhood where I live.

[marmar]

14. George W. Bush is going to live to be 240.

nt

[oxymoron]

15. And if they don't, they don't give a shit.

[Withywindle]

16. Well, you said it yourself, and I agree.

A lot of people DO self-medicate to mitigate the pain of their very real brain disorders.

"Many people with mental or psychological problems or issues drink to self-medicate. So, if they quit drinking but don't get help with the problems which caused them to drink, it only stands to reason that they would be more likely to die earlier (either by suicide or some other reason)."

Yeah, it's true. AA is free. So there is a very real possibility that a lot of heavy drinkers CAN get meaningful help to stay away from alcohol.

But if they are depressed/bipolar/schizophrenic, etc, and were using alcohol to self-medicate, well, real useful treatment for THOSE conditions is definitely not even close to free; in fact it's so far from affordable for blue-collar folks without health insurance it might as well be a mansion or a yacht.

Well, really, considering those odds, is the choice of a pint of Jack to help get some sleep tonight really THAT bad of a choice?

[WinkyDink]

19. And THIS is why I give to street people. Gee, they might buy booze? NO! I though they'd buy a house!

[northernlights]

18. so now I don't know whether I should

take up drinking to anesthetize the pain. Or not drink to get it all over with faster. :dilemma:

[Nikia]

21. One thing I noticed about the study was that they studied people already 55-65

Who were receiving outpatient care for some problem. That excludes two groups of people: people who died before that age and people who do not need any outpatient care at that age. It is possible that heavy drinkers are more likely to die before that age, but if they do than they live longer. It is possible that non drinkers, especially healthy ones, are less likely to need outpatient care. Another possibilty is that people with some kind of outpatient health issue stop drinking for various reasons: that they believe that abstaining will make them healthy, they have trouble physically getting to the bar, alcohol makes them feel ill.
I remember seeing studies that drinking alcohol heavily led to a shorter life span. I'll try to find it.

[Nikia]

22. Here's a link that says something a little different

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20061212/moderate-drinking-may-lengthen-life