A Crash. A Call for Help. Then, a Bill.

[Liberal_in_LA]

A Crash. A Call for Help. Then, a Bill.By CHRISTOPHER JENSEN
Published: September 3, 2010

ABOUT a year ago Cary Feldman was surprised to find himself sprawled on the pavement in an intersection in Chicago Heights, Ill., having been knocked off his motor scooter by the car behind him. Five months later he got another surprise: a bill from the fire department for responding to the scene of the accident.

“I had no idea what the fire truck was there for,” said Mr. Feldman, of nearby Matteson. “It came, it looked and it left. I was not hurt badly. I had scratches and bruises. I did not go to the hospital.”

Mr. Feldman had become enmeshed in what appears to be a nascent budget-balancing trend in municipal government: police and fire departments have begun to charge accident victims as a way to offset budget cuts.

Ambulance charges have long been common and are usually paid by health insurance, but fees for other responders are relatively new. The charge is variously called a “crash tax” or “resource recovery,” depending on one’s point of view. In either case, motorists are billed for services they may have thought were covered by taxpayers.

Sometimes the victim’s insurer pays. But if it declines, motorists may face threats from a collection agency if they don’t pay.

------------------------

Ms. Ingrassia says such charges can place an “undue burden on motorists who can’t choose the size or duration of an emergency response,” which means they cannot control the size of the bill they may get. “We also really don’t want to discourage any motorist involved in a crash from calling for police or rescue services if they fear they are going to be billed for it,” she said.

Mr. Feldman received a bill for $200. The Chicago Heights Fire Department told him the fire truck had responded in case there was a fire at the scene.

But Mr. Feldman, 71, had another question: “Why are you charging me? I didn’t do anything wrong. Charge the other guy.”

Neither Mr. Feldman’s insurance company, nor that of the man who struck him, would pay. Mr. Feldman finally paid the bill with some of the money he received from the insurance company of the person who hit him.

“This is my personal opinion: it is a rip-off and a scam,” he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/automobiles/05CRASHTAX.html?hpw

[DJ13]

1. The great ripoff

The emergency responders are paid whether they respond to calls or not.

[rocktivity]

2. If they were willing to bill Mr. Feldman directly, why not the guy who hit him?

I would have told them, "You'd better hope that I get more than $200 from the other guy's insurance company, because otherwise you're going to have to wait until I'm done suing him in small claims court!"

:mad:
rocktivity

[Billy Burnett]

3. Yet another uniquely American example of "rugged individualism" mixed in with some ...

... good old American entrepreneurial creativity.

[david13]

4. $200? Big Deal?!! Let him get out there in the rural areas, and they

call the helicopter to take him to the nearest trauma center.
Take a wild stab at what the bill is like there? I know one guy who had insurance, but he still had to pay $8,000.00.
The total bill was $45,000.00.
But what the man said was, if he had to pay the entire amount, he would. Because the helicopter ride saved his life.
Without the copter ride to the trauma center, he would have died.
So what is your life worth to you? Not $200?
Well then ...
dc

[rocktivity]

6. It shouldn't cost you anything if you're not at fault for an accident.

If your friend was the victim of an accident for which he was totally not at fault, he should pursue reimbursement of his $8K from either the defendant's insurance company or from the defendant via legal action.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[david13]

9. That's not the point. Now you sound like the chopper pilot, who

radios out and says, "before we fly out there, find out if the guy has insurance, or if the other party has insurance, or assets."
All that comes later.
There are helicopter programs, around the San Francisco Bay area, for the rural areas, for you to prepay, because when the moment comes, you just want to be saved, you don't necessarily want to try to figure out who is going, or not going to pay for it.
Only lawyers should give legal advice.
dc

[Gormy Cuss]

10. That argument would hold sway if you agreed to hire a fee-based service and if

we didn't have public services, paid for as an assurance that if and when we ever need their help they will reply without considering our individual bank accounts.

It's not about what my life is worth to me, it's about living in a civilized society.

[david13]

11. Why do you get the impression that we lived in a civilized society?

I'm an old man and lived here most of those many years. I never really had much of that idea, now moe than ever.
The problem is, the public services are based on entities, mostly cities. And out in the rural, mountainous areas, where it is most fun to ride motorcycles, and off road bikes, there are no services. You may easiliy be, in this state 4, 5, or more hours from a trauma center by vehicle, and in an area where only hiking can be done.
Remember Steve Fossett? It took a month to find where his plane had crashed. And a lot longer to find only bone fragments.
So as part of your ride insurance, you buy into the helicopter rescue service.
It isn't really argument. It's just observation of the facts of life. When you have crashed and you are injured, and perhaps bleeding, you generally don't want to pontificate about what should be.
dc

[Gormy Cuss]

12. Describing the paucity of public services in rural areas is really a different topic, but.

the OP is about a disturbing new trend, that of fee-for-public-service where it is assumed to be available and without additional cost because it's already been funded through the collective tax base.

Fossett's remains? There was no compelling need to find them except for his family. The initial search for him, when there was a good chance for finding a living being, is a cost that most want shouldered by public service.

As to your final statement, that cynicism is what encourages behaviors like that illustrated in the OP -- that the victim should be GRATEFUL to pay a bill for a public service response. Public fire departments in urban areas grew out of the insanely inefficient fee-for-service system that had been in place. Having equal access to police and fire service is the mark of a civilized society.

[david13]

13. I didn't see the op that way, and I don't see the conclusion that way.

I thought the issue was, do you pay for what you get, or does someone else pay? And I don't know that is what defines civilized society.
I think it defines philosophical ideologies.
The cynicism is not the cause of the problem, nor the issue. It is a result of living in the real world.
There are no particular ideological groups today that totally reject the concept of user based fees.
It is really only a question of where the line is drawn. And it's clear to me where it is drawn today, cynic or pollyanna aside.
dc

[Curmudgeoness]

14. Your point does not address this situation. Here, there was

no fire, and no need for the fire truck to be there. Also, this man was no hurt badly and it was not life threatening, so the $200 was just a cheap shot at grabbing some money. "What is your life worth to you? Not $200?" is not an argument here. Apples and oranges, my friend.

[david13]

17. Of course you know more than the fire dept., and of course you know

better than their fire dept policy, because ...
Ah, a Monday mornng quarterback.
Yes, it all makes sense now.
Apples and oranges, and not fee based services.
dc

[onethatcares]

5. so if you die in an accident

you get charged for the emergency personnel that show up? In this town, that might be 4-5 squad cars, 2 ambulances, the fire truck (hook and ladder), possibly the hazmat unit.

Do they take it out of your estate?

[david13]

8. As a matter of fact, they do. In the settling of an estate, any and all

debts are something that has to be settled or paid one way or another, if there are assets to satisfy those debts, costs of last illness, etc.
dc

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. I thought you were going to talk about the Wall Street Crash and the bill we got to pay for it.

[Lothar]

15. Let's just privatize the government already

All our highways can be paid by tolls, replace police officers with bounty hunters, and charge user access fees for visiting your local courthouse. The "common good" and "a government that protects you" are for sappy socialist dreamers.

[anarch]

16. absolutely...and start with the fire departments

not a member of a Fire Protection Club? No fire department for you, cheapskate!