“No one ever got a job from a poor person.”

[OmahaBlueDog]

This is another one of those homespun, cheerful teabagger sayings I keep seeing everywhere. It usually accompanies some Joe-The-Plumber-esque tale of some poor small businessman whose business income is his personal income, and how he or she being screwed over by that pack of thieves in Washington.

Why do these people never stop to ask "Hmmm...why is my boss making $250K, driving a Mercedes, and living in a 6 BR McMansion...and I'm getting $7.75 an hour and no benefits?"

[Skittles]

1. why does my CEO make 60 million while laying people off?

[RandomThoughts]

2. The thing you mentioned happens when rich people do not make jobs.

The truth is, the more unemployed, the less health security and job security that exist, the more people are willing to fight for scraps. So for profit lack of jobs helps the rich.

The poor and middle class make a job every time they create a need for some good or service by having the money, and the willingness to buy something.


The answer is not to respect them, don't serve them meals, don't sell them gas, don't even let them walk on the street without being told what they do to make money. Seeing a person in an expensive car should disgust people, same with extravagant luxury. It should let you know what they are, and what they think will get them respect. They even try to convince people that money should be respected, because that is all they got.


However, the system tries to keep people in servitude so those that do that fear having less.


It is not that complicated.

There are ceos I respect, they try to make a profit and deliver a product that people want, and treat workers pretty good, and even understand base line rules to avoid race to the bottom.

Then some are just assholes in it for themselves. They should not be treated with respect, and only pity should allow you to be kind to them to try and help them learn.

[dkf]

5. You ever wonder if this is what the typical person in China thinks about the average American?

Most still don't have cars after all. And yet their money funds our lifestyle.

[RandomThoughts]

16. That is because of race to the bottom.

Not because of average Americans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I Agree With The Thrust Of Your Argument.

However rich people are like everybody else except they have more money; some are kind and generous and some are mean and selfish.

[LawnKorn]

23. +1

The situation right now is rich people are not making jobs.

The policies put in place by the Reagan Administration then compounded by tax cuts for the rich under the Bush Administration have had disastrous effects. The transfer of wealth to the rich has ended the middle class ability to pay resulting in a viscous cycle of businesses failing because they cannot sell their products. Failed businesses lay off more people resulting in the middle class being unable to buy products.

The money has been transfered to the rich who are just sitting on their assets, starving the economy of cash.

The solution is to selectivity use the tax code to pry the money out of the rich and get it back into the economy. Increasing taxes on the rich is the only solution that will solve this problem.

[EstimatedProphet]

3. This is so fucking stupid that it should be laughed at

NO ONE ever got a job from a rich person, not in the way they mean it anyway. Rich people do not GIVE poor people jobs. What they might do is buy the labor of someone for less than what it is worth, and pocket the change. In practice we all get jobs from poor people, because we get jobs from demand for a product or service. This stupid phrase should immediately be greeted with - "You just proved you don't know one fucking thing about economics, so shut the fuck up and let the people that do make the decisions."

[Scuba]

18. Nailed it.

[Blue_Tires]

52. overly simplistic, second-grade mantras are all they know...

[Chulanowa]

4. Aren't employee wages deductable?

[PBS Poll-435]

6. Yep.

And the cost of each employee is deductable too! (FICA/FUTA/SUTA/Fringe Benefits/Transportation Passes/Health Benefits (unless the employee is a >2% shareholder in an S-Corp))

[Chulanowa]

9. So in other words...

The "Tax hike = wage / job cut" argument is pure and utter bullshit? I always suspected as much, but i'm no expert on how the tax systems work

[PBS Poll-435]

14. The problem is that so few of the largest employers actually pay form 1120 income tax

That the tax "benefit" by hiring is mostly negated.

[GoCubsGo]

28. Yup, pure and utter bullshit. Just look at the converse side of the arguement.

"Tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs"... Well, the wealthy got huge tax cuts back in 2001. Our economy began hemorrhaging jobs after that. That fact cannot be pointed out enough. When someone ,spews that bullshit, just ask them where all the jobs from the last tax cut are.

[gateley]

7. As a couple of DUers posted recently -- Then where are the fucking jobs? This

tax break has been in effect for 10 years, where are the jobs? And another DUer responded -- they created plenty of jobs. In China, India, etc.

[krispos42]

8. So nobody ever makes or sells anything to poor people?

If poor people are buying things, then working-class people are making and selling those things, the workers are being managed by middle-class white-collar workers, and upper-class executives are managing the whole operation and seeing to the company's overall business and financial path.

[Occulus]

38. If your only concern is next quarter's financial statement,

does that particular logic train even leave the station?

[krispos42]

51. Lay off 10,000 people. Oh, look, expenses are down and profits are up!

:crazy:

[provis99]

10. no rich person has ever created a single goddamn job.

Demand for goods and services create jobs, not rich people summoning jobs into existence with their magic wands.

Jeez, teabaggers are jaw-droppingly stupid.

[KT2000]

11. CEO makes $45 million last year

and his success is buying up small to medium companies, shipping jobs to China and laying off Americans.

[OmahaBlueDog]

12. See also....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9077938

It has a link to a jaw dropping CEO pay list.

[KT2000]

13. Thanks - that is disgusting n/t

[Prophet 451]

15. And no CEO ever made a cent WITHOUT a poor person

I think the Teabaggers always forget that. Without the labour force that makes his product, distributes the product, buys the product in many cases; without them, that CEO is just one guy and his rich-man fantasies. Labour can manage just fine without teh CEOs, the CEOs cannot survive without labour.

[HughBeaumont]

24. No CEO ever made a cent without the enormous help of taxpayer DOLLARS also . ..

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/07/5075

What Forbes means by "entirely self-made" is that the fortunes were not inherited but derived from business activity. Does this make the Forbes definition of "entirely self-made" reasonable? After all, if someone starts with modest resources, does well in business, and makes a fortune, isn't it fair to attribute that wealth to individual merit? Not really, though Forbes would like us to think so.

To see what's wrong with this idea, it's easiest to start with criteria that ought to disqualify a person from claiming to be "entirely self-made." After we've applied these criteria, we can see who's left in the pool. So, then, let us scratch from the list of the self-made anyone whose accumulation of wealth has been aided by any of the following:

Laws concerning property or contracts, and the public agencies that enforce such laws
Public schools or employees educated in public schools
Employees or customers who rely on public transportation
Roads, bridges, airports, sewers, water treatment plants, harbors, or other utilities built and maintained at public expense
Mail systems built and operated at public expense
Public hospitals and government-licensed physicians
Health and safety regulations created and enforced at public expense
Police and fire protection provided at public expense
Public libraries and parks
Any public amenities that add value to commercial or residential real estate
Government contracts
Government-provided business incentives
Regulatory agencies, such as the Federal Trade Commission or the Securities and Exchange Commission, that sustain trust in the stock market
A government-granted license permitting the exclusive use of a broadcast channel
The Internet
A form of currency legitimated and backed by a stable government
Social welfare programs that keep the poor from rebelling
The U.S. military

If we use these criteria to determine who can legitimately claim to be "entirely self-made," the Forbes number drops dramatically. It's not 270 out of 400. In fact, it's precisely zero.

If not for the legal and political arrangements that we create and maintain as a society -- with contributions from us all, costs to us all, and benefits to us all -- and if not for what we call "the public infrastructure," nobody could accumulate wealth. In short, there can be no private wealth without common wealth.

Of course, don't tell idiots like Steve Forbes this. That "Lucky Sperm"er thinks he hit a home run by being born on Home Plate.

[Vinnie From Indy]

17. Jesus was poor

Just look at the brazillion dollar industry he spawned over the centuries. Jesus Inc.

[HughBeaumont]

26. FTW!

[grahamhgreen]

19. No one ever got rich without help. Also: there are co-ops where no managers are "rich". Also,

If they paid a fair wage, no one would be rich in the first place.

[B Calm]

20. But if the poor person needs a certain product, then he/she does create jobs.

[alphafemale]

21. Ask around Pittsburgh why the name Carnegie is still revered

Once upon a time the wealthy seemed to actually "give back."

You really don't see that kind of community building anymore.

[HughBeaumont]

25. Heh Heh . . . always HATED that phrase . . . talked about this last week . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=9011550

Some good responses for sure. What it boils down to is that the poor DO create jobs . . . through DEMAND. If it weren't for the have-nots having spendable income (you know, which the rich for some dumbkopf reason want to take away at every turn), there'd be no DEMAND for the PRODUCT the RICH SELL. Somewhere along the way, the rich missed that point and the TeaDickwads . . . well, it just floated through their lobotomy scar and out their ear, or ass, whichever. So yeah, it's pretty much an empty statement - a part without a whole.

It's stunning to me that anyone STILL BUYS this supply-side bullshit, especially considering the 10-year result of this crapcake theory we are and still going through. Were 2 jobless recoveries just not enough to convince anyone that this does not WORK?

[reformedrethug]

27. Hate to break it to you

But it IS true, how many people does somebody making 7.25 an hour provide compared to the boss making 250K.

[Mnemosyne]

32. Tax cuts, etc., for the wealthy, DO create jobs

in China, Indonesia, Thailand...

And where does the boss make his money? Off the backs of the minimum/minute wage workers, without whom the bosses would have no wealth.

Welcome to DU.

[WinkyDink]

36. Here's a question for YOU: Can that "boss making 250K" do WITHOUT workers?

Like, who needs whom, in this scenario?

[ck4829]

37. Yeah, but only if that "boss making 250K" would actually start hiring people now, right?

[potassiumnitrate]

40. And just WHY do those people only make 7.25 an hour?!

Could it be because the rich guy isn't paying out a fair share?

[Xenotime]

42. Exactly. The difference is completely unfair.

[Raineyb]

45. You are dead wrong. Every time a someone goes into business because they

see a demand that needs filling they are creating a job because of poor people. Poor people spend all the money they get, their spending creates job. No rich fuck sitting on his well padded ass waiting for a dividend check ever create a job. Businesses do not come about because some rich person has a few extra million burning a hole in his or her pocket. If that were true we wouldn't be in the economic mess we are in now or did you not notice that the rich got an obscene tax cut a decade ago?

How many times do we as a country have to do the same stupid shit before people get it in their head that it doesn't work?

[Sparkly]

50. The worker creates ALL the jobs.

By purchasing AND supplying goods and services, the worker/'s consumer financial well-being is KEY.

Increasing the wealth of a few at the top does NOT cause them to "give" others jobs. That is a fallacy. Increasing the wealth of the lower and middle classes DOES create jobs; it's then in the best interest of companies to keep up supply.

[western mass]

29. A poor person never outsourced a job to India

they spend their cash at home, which creates job at home.

[OmahaBlueDog]

46. I like that, so I'm going to steal it.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

33. OFGS. Yeah, that's all it takes to go from minimum wage to CEO: "ambition".

You must think that a few success stories in magazines at the check-out are economics and history lessons.

[Iterate]

47. You mean like 23 million Americans?

Because that's how many have taken the sole-proprietor/self employment route. And their average income is about $12k per year. Quick math, Hmmm, even at a standard 2000hrs. per year (and I'm sure many work more) that's about $6.00 per hour, without benefits, obviously. What a deal. Try it, really, I'm sure because of your superior ambition you'll be the one who wins the lottery.

Beyond that, what in god's green earth makes you think that not having enough jobs through employment can be solved if all workers were simply self-employed or contract labor?

[KillCapitalism]

48. Tell me, how does someone with $35 in their bank account...

go start a company? Do you realize that most startups for any kind of business require a 7-figure investment. What bank is going to lend that amount to a poor person? Banks only lend $ like that if you have some serious collateral like real estate holdings or stocks. Basically, you have to have money to make money. The poor person can maybe invest in a vendor cart & sell hot dogs on the street, but that won't improve his situation by much.

[tanyev]

31. No poor person ever shipped a fortune off to secret bank accounts in Switzerland or the Caymans

in order to avoid paying taxes.

[wildeyed]

34. I am an actual small business owner for 10+ years.

I hate that I am used by cons to justify their BS. My problem has never been taxes or government regulation. My problems have ALWAYS been with insurance companies. They jack my health coverage and my employees health coverage significantly every single year. I have issues with my liability insurance premiums as well, even though I have never had a serious accident or lawsuit. They are a big business bleeding my small business dry because they can. I am not asking for a handout, just some protection from the pack of thieves who will eventually drive me out of business. Where are the teabaggers on this issue since they are so, so concerned about my financial wellbeing? Oh, yeah, on the side of the insurance companies.

[WinkyDink]

35. THE ENTIRE U.S. ECONOMY IS FROM THE LABOR OF POOR PEOPLE. Anybody here EAT? Wear CLOTHING? Stay in a

HOTEL?

Don't get me started.

[ck4829]

39. The poor are the backbone, the heart, and the hands of the American economy

Take away all the "cheap labor" in the US, and you leave all those gods-walking-among-us, the wealthy, then you will watch the economy collapse in a matter of days.

[unblock]

41. to PURCHASE is to HIRE. so there's also the SPENDING of the poor person!

if i purchase lawn mowing services from an individual, i'm hiring them.
if i purchase lawn mowing services from a small business, i'm hiring the small business. the boss of that smal business has the ability to hire other people ONLY because my neighbors and i have hired HIM with enough consistency to make it possible for him to build up a staff.

mcdonald's business is built on poor people hiring them to give them quick and easy, if lousy, food.

your paycheck comes from customers' spending, not from your employer's bank account.

[OneGrassRoot]

43. The Facebagger meme now is that Bush had....

the most consecutive increases in employment figures after his tax cuts took effect.

:eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

54. And like ALL FaceBagger memes, it flies like Icarus.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/94

The most consistent period of hiring during the Bewsh administration took place DURING his re-election campaign and 1 year AFTER he was safely in office. Starting around the end of 2006, America took the long Chute DOWN. There have been zero net new jobs created in 10 YEARS.

"Tax Cuts for the Rich Create Jobs" is a burnt canard that needs to be tossed in the garbage and never resurrected again.

[LatteLibertine]

44. Unemployed people

don't spend much or as much as they could if working.

In addition, that wealthy fellow doesn't make the good or services that are being consumed, that would be the undervalued overworked and underpaid laborer. Try being an empire of one.

These same people often fire masses of people who are living check to check so they can get an annual pay increase on an already large salary.

The OP is right in that people don't stand up for themselves and sometimes actually worship these folks.

Some days I feel the poor and middle class get exactly what they deserve. They worship these people and stand by while our government empowers them to exploit and oppress. I guess the baggers think one day they will be like them. Well, 99% of the time that isn't the case.

BTW, gambling on Wall Street with other folks money doesn't create jobs either.

[Fire1]

49. Because such questions require critical thinking skills. n/t

[angstlessk]

53. and a CEO never got rich without workers...its more impossible for a CEO to get rich without workers

than for a worker to get rich without a CEO

[Joe Chi Minh]

55. K&R

[DailyGrind51]

56. No one ever got a job from a rich person either!

He/she purchased your time, talent, expertise, and labor in a negotiated exchange. Until Americans begin to accept that again, American Labor is fucked!

Rich persons aren't hiring many Americans anymore, those jobs are going to Asia!

[chaska]

57. In a skinny minute, I'd put my money on the poor having created...

a hell of a lot more jobs than any rich person.