Warning: Do not click on this thread if you cannot stand criticism or controversy

[kentuck]

(You were warned.)

The two-Party system is near death.

The Republican Party is like a vampire, living on hate, deceit, and lies, and the blood of those willing to die for their corporate masters. They are already dead. They just don't know it yet.

But let's talk about our Party. The Democratic Party is busy nowadays talking about whether or not to extend the Bush taxcuts, as if that will create more jobs. Ten years of proof in the negative is not enough for them.

The Democratic Party over the last 30 years has become the Republican Party of Rockefeller of the 1960's. They cannot wait for the "right time" to pass another pay increase for themselves. This is one of the few issues where there is bi-partisanship in Washington.

The Democratic Party is no longer the Party of the People as much as it is about maintaining power for individual members of Congress. There are too many Joe Liebermans and not enough Al Frankens.

If the Democratic Party cannot pull itself back from the corporate grasp it has allowed itself to become entangled with, then its days are numbered also. There will be a new Democratic Party.

If Democrats have to guess where their President and their Senators stand on issues like Social Security or taxcuts for the wealthy, that is a situation that cannot continue. They should know. They should not have to guess. It will not be permitted to continue by people that call themselves Democrats.

The last straw for many Democrats will be the vote to extend the Bush taxcuts. There are people telling the President that if they extend the taxcuts, it may help create more jobs. That is a bunch of malarkey but many Democrats are starting to believe that, if we believe the political gossip. We would like to believe it is not true. But we cannot be sure with this Democratic Party.

They may vote to extend the Bush taxcuts? There is nothing more Republican they could do to turn off those voters that are already disenchanted with their lack of backbone and cowardly retreats.

We have been loyal Democrats our entire lives. But we will not accept another Republican Party as a substitute. We do not want to live our lives guessing how our Party will vote on traditonal Democratic issues. We must know.

The extension of the Bush taxcuts is the last chance for the Democratic Party to prove they are still Democrats. If they surrender this issue and the President signs off on it, that will be the end of this Democratic Party as we know it.

(Go ahead. Hit your little chickenshit unrec buttons.)

[LaurenG]

1. This wasn't critical or controversial in my book just common sense

K&R

[Sherman A1]

40. Agreed & Well Said

[Cal33]

206. If there were only some way of making sure that our president

and people in congress would get to read this article!

[SusanaMontana41]

204. And that's the way it is. Well said. n/t

[ibegurpard]

2. Is this your last straw?

this is just overkill for me.

[MrsCorleone]

201. Agreed. OP has quite the discouraging effect, wouldn't you say?

Mind if I insert links here? Today's speech sort of dispels a lot of assumptions.
:hi:

Obama's Labor Day Speech.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_lKbrF50zU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA4q03qH_4Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x1MfzjoyE4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[doc03]

3. I agree 100% what ever happened to the party that stood

for labor and the common man.

[OhioChick]

16. +1 n/t

[stray cat]

4. We may get a party up the middle most DUers would like less - ie Bloomberg

[Mark D.]

76. What We Need

We have, fragmented. The creation of the 'Coffee Party' was good to counter the Tea Party. The idea of a union of th unemployed made sense. But they are disparate, struggling, and most involved are busy trying to live their lives and survive in this downturn. Those opposed to us have plenty of backing from the financial elite those they vote for will serve. The Green Party, however, is in 50 states. If it were possible to meld the above, Vote Vets (to add a military side to it) and even get Michael Moore as a spokesperson we could have something if they all got under the Green Party.

Maybe after this election cycle is over (not now), hopefully with Dems still having control, albeit likely slim. If it could get support from seated Democrats we find aligning to this (Kucinich, Grayson, Feingold, Weiner, Sanders, Franken) with help from those outside of it (Nader, Dean, Robert Reich) and good media (Max Keiser, Mike Malloy, Thom Hartmann, Cenk Uyger, Maddow, Oldberman and others at MSNBC, etc.). We could have something of a real movement. Enough for the next two years between election cycles to either scare the shit out of the Lieberman branch of Democrats, and hopefully with the Beck/Palin Tea Party side splitting the GOP, we can have emerge a four party system. I'm being idealistic here, but if anyone knows how this can be done (I don't have a clue), speak up please. Just imagine the potential of that.

[anAustralianobserver]

118. I always think about instant-runoff voting (preferential voting) in these kind of conversations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_runoff_voting

[defendandprotect]

130. Yes, of course -- but the two corporate parties are blocking it ....

[Lorien]

146. Middle? It's been to the Right of Reagan for almost two years now. nt

[lunatica]

5. You're just facing reality - the last stage of grief

There comes a time when one accepts the reality of the situation and adjusts one's life accordingly. It's the last step in the grieving process.

[maryf]

20. It's time for us all to adjust to the fact that capitalism is killing us

and both parties support it...not a good idea to support a killer; the people start to get upset...their "adjustment" might be pretty drastic...

[defendandprotect]

132. Capitalism is severe exploitation of the planet, animal-life and humans ....

and it's suicidal at this point --

and even more suicidal to continue on with it !!

[Lorien]

150. +1000. nt

[xJx]

154. Capitalism?

It is not capitalism that is killing us. Corporatism replace capitalism some time ago. There is a big difference!

[GeorgeGist]

160. Profits are taxes ...

without repesentation or justification.

[FredStembottom]

176. Welcome to DU, xJx!

You are correct. Regulated Capitalism works great. It's what we once had.
The very effective incentive to the individual (profit motive)remains - but within rules that level the playing field.
Like a bowling tournament. it's exciting, you can win prizes. But there are rules for everyone participating... even handicaps that allow newbies to compete with pros.
Right now, we have a tournament where certain big, thuggish gangs have simply walked down the lanes and kicked the pins over. And we have tournament organizers who have been intimidated into declaring these thugs winners anyway!

That's what has to change.

[Nite Owl]

6. Absolutely agree

the tax cuts should be a given. More importantly is the future of Social Security, this is a democratic ideal and it's the dems who want to take it down? It shouldn't be on the table, Simpson should never have been appointed or most of the others. The new health insurance plan is a corporate giveaway. One thing after another, this is not the party I have given support over decades.

[The Magistrate]

7. Home Truths,My Friend

Particularly the comment that the principal aim of Democrats in Congress is the maintenance of their personal power.

This is what destroyed the Democratic Congress in 1994, crippling the Democratic Executive over the next six years.

If we lose a Legislative majority this year, it will be the most basic cause of the loss.

The refusal of Congressional Democrats to act as a bloc and accept some risk cripples us, and harms the country.

[emulatorloo]

13. My take is this I think we got some very good legislation out of the HOUSE

where we had a clear majority. For the most part house Dems did act as a block.

And then the Senate managed to FUCK EVERYTHING UP because of our razor thin majority. Basically our majority there = Liebermann.

I still think that many of the Dems in the Senate stand for the tenets of the Democartic party. Not the Ben Nelsons and the Liebermanns etc of course,

I'm sure I am being naive

[Odin2005]

21. The Filibuster crap is just an excuse. Make the fuckers ACTUALLY FILLIBUSTER!

As in standing and talking for 12 hours straight.

[emulatorloo]

34. What they do is basically the modern day version, It isn't like Mr. Smith Goes To Washington

anymore. These days all they have to do is vote against cloture.

[Raineyb]

166. Because they choose not to force them. That's no excuse. Make the rat fuckers

do it. If it actually cost them something over and over and over again they'd stop doing it for every fucking thing.

[unapatriciated]

47. My better half has been saying that all year.

Make them filibuster and point it out to the public every day. Take their power away by calling their bluff.

[Lorien]

149. +1. Just about everyone I know has been saying that

The only conclusion some of us can come to is that both sides are really on the same team, and everyone but us "small people" is in on the con. They don't force them to filibuster because too many promises were made to the wealthy elite who own them all.

[Odin2005]

196. Political philosopher Karl Popper made a very timely remark on this.

He said in a properly functioning Liberal Democracy the Opposition Party is supposed to prevent the ruling party from using the taxpayers money corruptly. In a society with a malfunctioning democratic tradition the "opposition" party shares in the spoils and gives the illusion of democracy.

[metapunditedgy]

48. Damn straight. I dismiss all this BS about "filibuster, filibuster, wah wah," because it's

an obvious red herring. If the Senate Democrats wanted to make Republicans pay for filibustering, they know *exactly* how to do it. If they do *not* make Republicans pay for filibustering, well, then they're complicit, aren't they?

[Odin2005]

59. You got it!

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

105. +1,000,000 You got it exactly!

:yourock:

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

100. I agree with you. nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

193. Reid is a coward. I would force republicans to speak 24 hours a day for weeks or months.

Why is Reid such a goddamned coward? He says he was a boxer but how could he ever fight anyone when at the first hint of battle he goes running to the nearest corner to cower in total fear? No wonder this feeble weakling is almost losing his senate race against one of the most insane and inept people to ever run got office. Isn't there anyone better in Nevada than Reid or Angle? The state must be full of freakish zombies if Reid and Angle are the best they've got.

[Odin2005]

195. he's not a coward, he is doinhg what his REAL masters want him to do.

Give a appearance of liberal governance while giving the PTB what they want.

[defendandprotect]

133. And, Rahm Emmanuel/DLC is still in White House looking to put more right wing Dems

into the House/Senate --

[dkf]

8. Maybe I'm the Democrat and you are a Green?

I do agree that Democrats are governing in a more moderate way than the "change" we expected, but a lot of ideas here scare me with the scope of future obligations.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. What ideas scare you?

The OP speaks of Social Security and the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Social Security scares you?

[Enthusiast]

101. These are crazy wild ideas!

:sarcasm:

[liberation]

81. Social Security and stoping tax cuts for the rich scare you?

And you are worndering who the democrat is? Wow...


Conservatives sure loved the "big tent" when they were looking for a less tarnished brand than their fabled GOP, now they act as if they own the place. Typical.

[defendandprotect]

134. Did you vote for a Dem president who would put Republicans in charge of government?

"Moderate"? Overturning public education is "moderate" -- ????

Stomping out the best chance we've had yet for MEDICARE FOR ALL -- 76%+ of the nation

wanted single payer/government run health care plan -- is "moderate"???

Setting up a Cat Food Commission and put Repugs in charge of it is "moderate" -- ???

:eyes:

[emulatorloo]

9. I thought only a handful of Dems are talking about extending the Bush taxcuts?

Certainly not enough to actually make it happen.

From what I hear these are chickenshit Dems who have allowed their 2010 Republican opponents to bamboozle voters into thinking the Bush tax cuts effect everybody, not just the top 3%.

[veganlush]

73. that's the problem

it only takes a handful to throw it the way of the repugnants..

[defendandprotect]

135. Why should any DEM be talking about extending GOP tax cuts for rich ...???

Either Bush's tax cuts or Reagan's?????

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemReadingDU]

11. Agree

The two-Party system, as we know it today, is near death. Once the global financial Ponzi implodes and people realize they really don't have the money they think they do (using credit cards is debt!), more people are going to be jobless, homeless and hungry. Food pantries are already stretched to the limit. I don't see how this country will be able to help everyone who needs it. Desperate people will do desperate things. Perhaps even form a new political party 'Of the People, By the People, For the People'.

These things take time, I probably won't be alive to see it, but my toddler grandbabies will (if they survive).

[chervilant]

70. hmm...

Actually, since the human race is now experiencing change at an exponential rate, you are likely to see this and many other changes within the next five years.

Our economy is grinding to a halt (lo, these many years after St. Ronnie's corporatist-driven disaster). And, since ours is a global economy, the fallout will be global.

The uber wealthy elites labor on under the delusion that their wealth will protect them, since--historically--this has been true. However, the ravages of radical income inequity have ripped the scales from most of our eyes. The less than 400 corporatists who own and control more than 45% of the world's resources--and the 1,011 billionaires who jockey each year to gain the brass ring of membership in that inner circle--will be defenseless against the billions of people worldwide who recognize that it's time for catastrophic change.

The uber wealthy elites' fundamental mistake has been to underestimate the hoi polloi. We have both the courage and the fortitude to pursue an equitable alternative to the giant ponzi scheme known as capitalism.

[DemReadingDU]

72. Perhaps catastrophic change could come sooner

But Americans have become so complacent preferring to watch mindless TV, listen to RW talk radio, and texting. Unless they become of a herd mentality, I really don't see them getting up off their butts until they are penniless, hungry, and no longer receiving government handouts.

[chervilant]

110. Well,

a lot more of us are penniless, hungry and TIRED of having to scrape and scrimp to make ends meet.

However, I'm talking about the growing number of humans on this planet who are getting informed, networking with like-minded people across the globe, and starting dialogues about what we can do to insure effective, productive change.

Not every blogger on DU is a slacktivist, you know.

[chervilant]

112. BTW,

it may feel good to challenge or negate someone else's ideas or suggestions, but I can assure you that naysayers waste a lot of energy whinging about what can't be done. I would rather be a fix-it kinda gal... which, I am. Consequently, I will keep networking, and keep encouraging my activist friends to work together to effect positive change.

[pecwae]

12. How about I hit the Rec button?

:thumbsup:

[femrap]

14. If he extends those tax cuts to the

rich, more and more and more dems will stay home on Election Day.

[Jakes Progress]

15. Actually the disagreement you will get here

comes from a small, but very vocal minority who seem to have some sway with how things are done.

If you notice the number of agreeing posts whenever criticism of the party's rightward tilt are brought up, you will see a larger percentage of a variety of posters doing the agreeing. The same tired group that acts like everything in DLC and WH land is wonderful will show up on occasion and post a lot of replies - mostly smarmy or just "you must love palin" crap. But they only pretend they are the majority. Twenty posts from three posters versus thrity posts from twenty-five responders tells the tale.

This dynamic will, I'm afraid, play out in the mid-terms.

[Caretha]

82. I always like you Jake

cuz you cut right to the chase.

[glowing]

157. Its like mentioning her and the old man were even a viable choice.

She's a gnat fly that won't go away because she's a DIVA mind-set and and very self-centered person... AND the media loves the twit's tweets.

We are 2yrs past the election. Most of us heard Public Option and were willing to settle for that even though we wanted medicare for all type program.

Most of us heard, we are going to tax those above a certain income, and the crowd of 80,000+ people agreed.

Shoot the first day on the job he said Gitmo would be closed in a year (its still open). Either he doesn't want to use his voice or he's been bought off not too.. You don't make roaring speeches, and then deliver that crappy address he did the other night. No passion. NO belief in the words coming out of his own mouth. Written drivel being read from the prompter. Might as well elect a tv personality, they know how to read the teleprompter.

[L0oniX]

183. Quit picking on my sig line friend. Buzz Off.

[griffi94]

17. k&r

[Odin2005]

18. There is no effective Left-Wing in this country anymore, the DLC destroyed it.

It makes me VERY angry! :grr:

[Scruffy1]

25. I think there is-there just not Democrats

I'm always amazed that the MSM automatically categorizes people who are neither Dems or Thugs as being in the Center-whatever that is. A part is just apathetic but there is a large left wing who because of election rules and being too fragmented to actually win an election will usually vote Dem as the lesser of two evils-if they have some motivation to do so. The current state of affairs doesn't give them much reason to back a Democrat. In fact I don't think we have a Democratic majority nowe in the house or Senate. Just putting D before your name doesn't count. Look at Blanche Lincoln, Evan Bayh, or Max Baucus. In the house look at the Blue dogs like Colin Peterson.
Also, off year races will always favor the out party because of very low turnout. One thing about the fascist-they know how to drive their herd to the polls.
Where I live the majority is way left of the Democratic Party and the only contested statwiide elections elections will be for governor and Michelle Bachmann's seat-which I predict she will win because she saves most of her crazy act for National coverage and acts a little more normal on the campaign trail. she also has one of the most gerrymandered districts in the state which is going away in the next redistricting-so the DCCC has never helped any of her opponents at all.In the District just South of her Keith Ellison, black and Muslim will run virtually unopposed.

[Odin2005]

26. Collin Peterson is my Rep. I FUCKING HATE HIM!

He gets re-elected because he delivers farm bill pork, all the while he sells this country out.

[ThomCat]

36. That is very true.

x(

[Richard Steele]

19. Sad truth. K&R

[whistler162]

22. 'nother Sunday we go a bashin' thread!

[earth mom]

23. Great post but I think Social Security is what will infuriate voters the most.

Everyone is used to being screwed over by taxes. SSDD.

But Social Security? That is what will wake people the hell up and get the pitchforks out. :mad:

[chill_wind]

43. I agree. SS and further failure to substantially address jobs and unemployment

will trump by a long-shot. People are pissed about the Bush tax cuts, but much more pissed about the immediacy of their own inability to pay their mortgages (if they still have them), afford health care (if they even have it) and put food on the table. Unemployment is what is driving the Independents' (arguably the largest voting bloc these days) anger above all other issues.

[howaboutme]

96. Media owns us and our thought process

Americans are zombies that are brainwashed by the media...sports, reality, talk radio, etc. The media owns us and they have the capability to keep Americans huddled in front of the computer or TV or movie theater and unconcerned about reality or to stir us up if it fits their mission.

Americans en mass are virtually unable to get stirred up by facts or via their own wherewithal. The powers that be know that the "poorer" society gets the more malleable it is.

We're puppets to a corporate media that works in partnership with political and corporate interests, not as an advocate to honest government or the people.

In France the people are on the streets over the Gypsies. In the USA we are blase about our social security, etc.

[defendandprotect]

138. Europeans talk politics with one another -- Americans don't ....

they'be been long warned . . .

"You don't discuss politics or religion in polite society!"

In fact, politics and religion are two of the most important subjects in the world!!

[sabrina 1]

114. I agree re Social Security, but they are related.

If the tax cuts expire, they would not even have to worry about Social Security, not they have to yet.

But both combined, even the suspicion that they intend to cut Social Security benefits and extending the Bush tax cuts, will destroy this party and likely keep a lot of people home in November.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Aw crap. How clumsy of me. I hit Rec.

The Bush tax cuts would be only one of the many things they might do to continue their alienation of the left (which seems to be their intention). They could also turn their backs on Elizabeth Warren; they could pass the geezer-hostile recommendations that will no doubt emerge from the Catfood Commission. They could fail to propose meaningful jobs legislation. (Maybe already too late to do the right thing on that one). They could do some hits on the veterans' disability scene. They could...well, you get the idea.

Problem is, I don't trust them to not do any one of those things. And furthermore, I don't look for anything positive out of them that might displease their corporate owners.

Recently the VA was setting up to extend Agent Orange disability benefits to cover heart disease & some other chronic conditions. I would be eligible for disability payments. The bastards ruined my health (bypass surgery in 1992 and a lot of subsequent health issues) and cut my life expectancy with their chemicals. I'm almost 66, and this would be the first dime I ever got out of the VA other than some minimal $130/month GI Bill monthly payments for my education in the early 70's. Guess who wants to kill that legislation? Boner? Paul Ryan? Nope. Jim Webb. If they fuck people like me once again, how enthusiastic am I supposed to be this fall?

[kentuck]

27. :-)

They could do any of those things but when they don't, they want to blame the voters for not voting for them?? How fucking insane is that! Just do what is right and the voters will vote for you.

My Party, right or wrong, is a bunch of bullshit. Put another turd on the shit sandwich.

[NuttyFluffers]

164. abandonment then blaming the voters is not just bullshit, it's extortion.

and well, i just don't do business with extortionists...

(but i'm registered RNC, just in case the brown shirts come to load the trains for the camps. it'd buy me some time to ship my family to a safe place overseas. but that's me preparing for the absolute worst, so don't mind me. ;) )

[westerebus]

62. Agent orange.

Webb asked for and got a 60 day hold to review the expansion of illnesses as a result of exposure to AO even if the person only spent one day in country. The expanded list of AO exposure would include heart disease and diabetes.

There are a lot of people with diabetes and heart disease who were not in Viet Nam. There are a lot of vets I know who were exposed to AO and have all kinds of health problems. I know a few Iraq vets who also have major problems from what they were exposed to.

There is a pretty long line of vets who need help. We should get what was promised.

As far as I know Webb hasn't killed any thing. He asked for a review.

If my understanding as to what is going on is wrong, please let me know.

[glitch]

64. Jesus, Jim Webb? What on earth? How does he justify it?

If he says deficit, what an asshole.

[eilen]

178. I am sorry for your health troubles

My uncle ended up dying of cancer because of exposure to Agent Orange. He served 2 tours in Vietnam. Thank you for bearing and sacrificing in service to the US. You and many others should have not only been eligible for disability, you should have been given frequent good healthcare via the VA to monitor your health.

(I know this is off-topic but I wanted you to know I stand with you)

I don't think anyone is energized this election season. There is a lack of passion for justice in Washington. They are literally tone deaf.

[Vinca]

28. Rec. You're correct. The tax cuts are the line in the sand.

[HughBeaumont]

29. K &R.

You either bury the Reagan/Bewsh II way of doing things (that is, following the 14 points of Fascism, particularly rules 9 and 10), or your country dies. Simple. As. That.

[felix_numinous]

30. Political discourse has been destroyed.

Americans are in an identity crisis, the breakdown of education has caused a breakdown of communication, not to mention the social skills necessary to have a civil disagreement are nearly absent.

If language and communication are interfered with, it becomes easy to rewrite history. What was once known as the Republican Party are now predators and people who have not figured out they are prey. They are bent on changing the very structure of this country, and have been quite successful so far. What was once the Democratic Party is now made up of everyone not in the first group: ex-Republicans who are not neo cons, conservative Democrats, and traditional FDR Democrats.

Political correctness has not allowed this discussion to happen within the Democratic Party, out of fear that to bring this internal diversity out of the shadows would threaten to break up the party--when in actuality this is the very discussion that has to happen in order for us to stay together.

[niceypoo]

119. US politics = Jerry Springer Show

As time rolls on, we get less and less functional as a country.

[Skelly]

31. And we have no one to blame but ourselves.

"The Democratic Party is no longer the Party of the People as much as it is about maintaining power for individual members of Congress. There are too many Joe Liebermans and not enough Al Frankens."

I would venture to say it was Democrats who voted all those Joe Liebermans into office, no?

Everyone can name a Democratic Congressperson/Senator that should not be in office. How many name their own?
How many, during the primaries, actually look at the incumbent and KNOW their voting record, then look at the, perhaps never heard of before, opponent and KNOW his/her position on issues and THEN vote accordingly?
The cynic in me says, "very few". The optimist in me says, "we change change this".

[metapunditedgy]

49. I strongly disagree. I voted for Obama because he campaigned as a progressive. It's not my fault

he took a hard right turn once he got into office.

And I'm tired of being told it *is* my fault.

[Skelly]

129. I understand

your frustration. It is not the Presidential election of which I speak. Who are your senators and representatives? What are their views? THIS is where we have lost our focus. Are we voting for those who have our best interest in mind or are we voting for thoseonly thing will win in the general election?

[defendandprotect]

139. Disagree... I didn't vote for a Obama so he could put Repugs in charge of government...

Did you?

We are only permitted to vote for the candidates which the elites give us --

you have to figure that out, as well!!

I'll be happy to name my own -- Sen. Robt. Menendez ... Dem who is DLC -- we should

toss out every Dem who is DLC or "New Dem" --

and we had best be looking to 2012 and a new Dem for president!!

[Lorien]

151. Just who do you think picks the candidates?

Hint: they also own the MSM.

[2Lib4Dem]

177. We Do Not Get a Full Range of Choices

In the 80’s during the Reagan Admin, the League of Women’s Voters were ousted from organizing the presidential debates in favor of the “Presidential Debate Commission.” This is now the group that sets the venue, decides who is invited, where they are placed on the stage, what questions are asked and who gets to answer which questions. The members? A cabal of corporate reps, of course.

[gulliver]

32. On any journey, you have to start where you are in order to....

...get where you want to go. I think it is a mistake to presuppose that the current state of the Democratic Party is somehow not in line with its constituency. I also think that the Democratic Party has not moved en masse to the right by any stretch.

Imagine a time machine where you go back to 1970 and propose to the Democratic party of that time that gays be allowed to marry and serve openly in the military. Imagine that you propose the HCR we just got enacted as part of the Democratic platform. Imagine that you suggest nominating two women to the Supreme Court or, for that matter, seriously nominating a black man to be president.

The Dems of 1970 would have you escorted out of the building.

The Dems of 2010 are being compared by many not to where we were as a party in the past, but to where many of us wish we were now. That's not a valid comparison. You always have to start where you are with the energy you've got. Complaining is fine, but too often laziness and pessimism want to make complaining a substitute for striving.

[kentuck]

35. But we cannot sit idly by...

and watch them destroy what it took us 75 years to create, either.

And sometimes, those great "accomplishments" are not all they have been talked up.

We, the People, are the government. We do not or should not bow to corporations or those that would steal our liberties or hard-fought victories from us.

If we do not fight for it, we will lose it. We cannot be happy with the status quo. If those that represent us cannot fight for us, then we will have to find others that will. They have been bought out. They no longer represent us, the people.

[ctwayne]

38. Check Your History on HCR

Richard Nixon offered a Republican Health Insurance Reform program much like the one that Obama just passed. Ted Kennedy and the Democrats turned it down because they were still fighting for single-payer national health insurance-popularly known as Medicare for All. Ted Kennedy later said he regretted fighting against Nixon's proposal because it was better than nothing.

In some ways Nixon's program was more liberal than Obama's. For example Nixon didn't plan to tax high quality union health care plans to pay for his program.

Both the Republicans and the Democrats are nominating and appointing more women. And the entire gay rights movement was just beginning around 1970.

And yes I think it is great that we have a black president. I'm just a little sad that he turned out to be more conservative than Nixon or Ford.

[gulliver]

39. I thought about checking it, but I rushed the post.

I knew there were serious efforts by Kennedy et al going way back. So, HCR would not have gotten you escorted out of the Dem building in 1970. I agree, and my post was wrong in that respect. We didn't get HCR until Obama, and it was considered a victory for Ted by his family and many others, so I would say that the country has moved left to reach HCR over the decades.

The fact that Republicans have placed a woman and a black on the Supreme Court and are nominating and appointing more women shows that the Republicans have moved drastically to the left. Glenn Beck supports marijuana legalization and admits to using "everything." Laura Bush supports gay marriage and abortion. The Republicans have become leftists.

Actually, no. Nor have the Democrats become conservatives or even "more conservative." I don't know a single Democrat personally who I would say has become more conservative. Quite the contrary. As I say, I think that impression is based on expectations about the rate of change rather than actual accomplishment. Those who expect a greater rate of change often miss the accomplishments.

For example, I think thinking Obama is more conservative than Nixon or Ford would be sad. I don't think that though.

[ctwayne]

45. I Agree with Some of What you Say

You are making some excellent points. You are correct that the rights of women, gays, blacks, Hispanics, handicapped people, etc. have improved since 1970. Where the country has moved to the right (at least in my opinion) is on economic issues. For example, in the early 1970's, the top 1% of the population owned around 7% of the nation's wealth. They own around 34% now. In 1970 unions were powerful and now they are weak. In 1970, auto workers, steel workers, construction workers etc. were highly paid and quite powerful. Now most of the wealth and power resides on Wall Street.

[gulliver]

57. That's mutual.

I am glad to see that we passed the financial reform bill. Interesting that it was signed in the Ronald Reagan Building.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Imagine if you went to the Dems in 1970 and urged them to pass NAFTA and

deregulate the financial institutions.

The Dems have gone left on personal issues and hard right on economic issues.

[tavalon]

33. How is it that this isn't glaringly obvious?

[metapunditedgy]

51. Rather, "Why isn't this glaringly obvious truth spoken more loudly?" n/t

[tavalon]

170. Get ready for some tinfoil hat stuff

I think if we found a way to speak this obvious truth more loudly (read more effectively) this dog and pony show would change and there wouldn't be a pretense of freedom. We may actually be lucky that TPTB see us as mild annoyances and nothing more.

[metapunditedgy]

171. I think the power-players have a whole menagerie of tactics to keep things stable.

When we get angry enough, they'll just make the carrot and stick a little more carroty and sticky, and things will settle down again.

The only way out is to do an end-run on the whole system.

[defendandprotect]

136. It's been obvious for 40 years . . . and we've been being advised of it for 40 years!!

Unfortunately, recognizing it means having to do something about it --

and there are many here who are frightened by contemplating change --

[grahamhgreen]

37. Does anyone know the timeline for the vote? And why would it be brought to the floor?

[kentuck]

46. The present narrative is:

more and more Democrats are in favor of extending the Bush taxcuts.

That is the propaganda being hyped by the media and the Republicans.

If they can get 51 votes, they will request it be brought to the floor for a vote.

Let us hope they do not get enough votes and the taxcuts will simply expire.

My fear is that they will get enough votes to pass the extension and the bill will be sent to the President to sign.

And he will sign it...

[grahamhgreen]

67. It's mind-numbing. All this BS about cutting the deficit, but then they're going to extend

tax cuts for the rich.

Utterly nonsensical.

[G_j]

41. "too many Joe Liebermans and not enough Al Frankens"

:thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

137. 44% of the Congress are millionaires and more -- !!

Only 1% of the general population are millionaries!!

Who keeps throwing millionaires into the candidate pool -- and why do

we keep voting for them?

Clearly, elites have created a system which blocks the ordinary citizen

from attaining elected office -- that's also long been true!

[mix]

42. k&r

I love this country too much to keep voting for the same rancid establishment figures.

[unapatriciated]

44. II know it's the last straw for this household.

I feared it might be coming but was hoping I was wrong.

[Kalun D]

50. Just the Icing on the Corporate Takeover Cake

the last straw for me was the $700 Billion "bailout" for the felony criminal bankers that intentionally caused the problem in the first place. The other last straw was the government allowing the felony criminal perpetrators to "clean up" their crime scene in the Gulf and then aiding/abetting them.

[xultar]

52. Why did you have to bring the whole ignorant ass unrec argument into

such a great OP.

I'll have to unrec just for calling the unrec function chickenshit. Otherwise the post deserves to be on the GP. So it is there regardless.

regards,
x

I just wish people would get the fuck over the unrec thing.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. Tell you what xultar

I was in a biz that lived or died by public recommendation. I don't like to be critical of our beloved management, but unrec is what you call 'ignorant ass' as I told them from day one. Unrec and other 'dislike' boxes to check almost always fail to communicate and in community settings, make for endless upset and bickering. Not only is DU's unrec 'ignroant ass' but so are other similar functions that allow a negative yet unsupported and annoyomous opinion. Unrec as it functions here is a cowardly thing that does more harm than any good it could do.
When they started it, they had a set of expectations from the function. I surely do not see those goals met on today's DU. In fact, the very things that were to improved have of course gotten worse.
The only reason I comment on this at all is that you use such harshly critical terms, including 'ignorant' but in fact, the more you know about ratings and surveys and public opinion gathering, the less you will like a blind dislike comment function here or anywhwere. If you do not agree, that is fine, but my opinon does not stem from ignorance, but from professional 'keep bread on the table' experience with such things. What is your opinion based on?

[xultar]

60. My opinion is based on the fact that in the scheme of things it doesn't mean anything.

nothing.
zilch.
nada.
zero.

I mean really there is so much more to worry about than whether a thread gets an unrec.

Like, well I could have stomach cancer.
My cat just died.
My job is actually costing me money and I'm into my savings trying to keep it.
If I lose my job will I be able to afford to keep my pets. If I can't I'll die before I let them go.
My mom has surgery coming up.
My brother's marriage is going through a rough spot.
I have an endoscopy scheduled and I have to take days off from work that will cost me dearly in the $$ department.
There is a shakeup @ work and I hope I don't get ousted.
Dems possibly losing the house
Michelle Bachmann winning
Sharon angle winning

Should I go on...

[NuttyFluffers]

165. if it meant nothing, then there was no reason for you to act out in spite.

you may now return to worrying about the so many other things.

:hi:

[xultar]

187. I actually don't. I very rarely use unrec.

[Subdivisions]

80. Self-delete because my post will be alerted on and deleted anyway. If you ddin't

sse my post, Bluenorthwest, it was nothing personal to you. You can PM me if you want and I'll respond to you there.

[Caretha]

86. I just wish people would get the fuck over the unrec thing.

you being one of them. Have a great day. :)

[aikoaiko]

54. When you speak of the Bush tax cuts, do you mean the ones below 200K as well

:shrug:

[kentuck]

79. I would let all of them expire ...

and then pass another taxcut for the working and middle-class up to $150,000. Do it by reconciliation, like the Repubs, if necessary. And dare the Repubs to vote against it.

[gateley]

56. This pretty much says it all, kentuck:

"If Democrats have to guess where their President and their Senators stand on issues like Social Security or taxcuts for the wealthy, that is a situation that cannot continue. They should know. They should not have to guess."

It's just been dawning on my slowly this is what it's become. Too many times I "knew" how the Dems would vote, or "knew" what the Administration would do, but I've been surprised and shocked too often.

And again you sum it up perfectly:

"We do not want to live our lives guessing how our Party will vote on traditonal Democratic issues. We must know."

:headbang:

[Radical Activist]

58. "if we believe the political gossip" Only a fool would do that.

As usual, your post is based on a false premise. There's no evidence that Democrats are seriously considering extending Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. There are a few gossip stories which are obvious PR plants by conservatives. Those articles aren't reporting anything: they're campaigning for what the owners of those newspapers want. None of the stories name a single elected Democrat who was reconsidering or gave evidence of any kind that it was being taken seriously. You feel for it hook, line and sinker.

I enjoy criticism and controversy. What I can't stand is stupid bullshit.

[kentuck]

61. Anybody that doesn't think like you is a "fool"

Enough asshole!

[Radical Activist]

168. What's wrong? Don't like criticism?

Don't make daily posts with poorly reasoned, anti-Democratic messages if you can't take a critical response. The articles suggesting Democrats are reconsidering are transparent propaganda and you should learn to see through it unless you want to keep being manipulated by the press.

[liberation]

85. "I enjoy criticism and controversy. What I can't stand is stupid bullshit. "

I used to think it was unmitigated dishonesty which drove some of yer projection, but maybe... it is all just a simple case of dyslexia? Because flipping the likes and hates in that sentence sure describe you down to a T Mr. Reactionary Apologist.

Anyhow, it is always a good laugh... Cheers.

[Radical Activist]

169. And yet, you didn't respond to my point.

You can keep believing propaganda from the corporate press if you want but I'm not going to be that gullible. Why on earth would anyone believe the political gossip press for a minute after all that we've seen over the last 10 years?
I do get a laugh out of posters who make a hobby of attacking Obama but are also thin skinned when someone criticizes their arguments. It's a little hypocritical isn't it?

[SidDithers]

63. Chickenshit Unrec for a horseshit OP...nt

Sid

[kentuck]

65. What part or parts do you disagree with?

Can you be more specific?

[Caretha]

88. Oh Sid my darling

anytime I see that you are in a tether...I know someone has hit your button, you lovely you......

Btw, I'm selling clues and I don't give them away...you lovely you.

[L0oniX]

189. Welcome to my ignore dungeon.

[glitch]

66. K&R#97 nt

[The Green Manalishi]

68. Good Riddance

K&R.
Both parties are rotting corpses, owned by and for the same corporate cartels, bearing little relationship to what most Americans feel or need.
The whole concepts of "Liberal" and "Conservative" are so inaccurate, hypocritical and counterproductive as to be far more harm than help. We are an eclectic, synthesist, freethinking people, we Americans, when the assholes of the DLC (and the 'leadership' of the Republican party) get the hell out of our way and let us examine issues by themselves, outside of and beyond the slack jawed mawkish fascism of ideological zealots *and* "cheerleaders" (The only thing that matters is people with a particular letter after their name) alike.

[democracy1st]

69. K & R nothing but a Goldman Sachs admin

[defendandprotect]

140. +1000% --

[Swamp Rat]

71. Some of us may not live long enough to vote for another Democrat,

thanks to the DLC and Democrats who are owned by the same corporations as repukes.

[Raster]

74. Even though there are two political parties in Washington,

they both eat from the same trough and are fed by the same hand.

[marmar]

75. And perhaps the two-party system needs to die......

nt

[Phlem]

77. I'v felt like this for a long time

and assuming others for even longer. We need to make this a main stream issue so it's on everyone's mind. We need to expose this to as many people as we can, then, maybe then, will the winds of change turn into a hurricane for everyone in earnest.

-p

[anachro1]

78. But - but - but

9 / 11 (registered trademark) changed everything!

BULLSHIT.

[alarimer]

83. Maybe the death of these two parties.

Which would be welcomed by me, celebrated even. Personally, I want progressives to form their own party. Let the corporate shills (Republicans AND Blue Dogs) have their own party.

Not sure how we kill the two-party system when everything is geared for that system.

[OverBurn]

87. I agree with everything you said, but . . .

.. what are we to do?

The repukes are far worse than the Dems and there is not a viable 3rd party.

I'm pretty disheartened over the entire process. What are we to do?

[The Magistrate]

89. It Is Still Necessary, Sir, To Vote Against The Republicans

Welcome to the forum!

"The four most dangerous words in the language are 'It can't get worse...'."

[kentuck]

93. What The Magistrate said...

At this time, we do not have a lot of choice. The Democratic Party needs a fair warning. Either get their shit together or we are gone. Then it is up to them, not us. At the present time, we have to do whatever needs to be done to keep the Republicans out of power. They are bad for us. They are bad for the country. They are bad for the world. We have seen their agenda. It is deceitful and dangerous.

[defendandprotect]

141. If we keep voting for the "lesser evil" it will get worse ... you can be sure of that--!!

Wasn't labor talking about starting a political party?

That was Susan B. Anthony's dream -- LABOR/WOMEN'S PARTY!!

[DevonRex]

188. Thus disproving the very first sentence in the OP. nt

[The Magistrate]

194. Not Really, Ma'am

It remains the system in place, near death or no.

In the present condition of our political life, breaking the Democratic Party will simply deliver the government to extreme reactionaries, who are quite likely to then hang on to power through authoritarian measures, the demographics of the place being so against them over the long haul, and the economic consequences of their policies being so opposed to the necessities of a democratic polity.

[hay rick]

90. Viable third party.

So we're all stuck voters. We have to vote for the Dems, because bad as they are, the Rethugs are obviously a lot worse. Sounds like more of a reason not to participate at all.

A third party is not going to be viable right away. It needs to be built. If the Democratic Party persists in being Republican lite, people will start to leave it in droves. If the third party draws enough votes to sabotage the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will have to re-examine its loyalties if it wants to survive. This process will not be painless.

[defendandprotect]

142. We can TARGET right wing Dems . .. DLC and "New Dems" .. "Blue Dogs" ....

We don't have to vote for right wing Dems --

and we can work to keep moving the party to the left -- pushing for more

liberal/progressive Dems --

and certainly in 2012, we need a new Democratic candidate for president -- !!

[placton]

92. kentuck - it's about time

I finally see the DU leadership drop the scales from your eyes. Many of us have been saying just this, since right after Obama was sworn in by that right wing preacher Rick Warren, errr, he only spoke - but that was the first step.

DU is for Dems - not GOP lite.

Let's all realize that, as the Party formerly known as Democratic leaves us in the rear view mirror.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DeSwiss]

95. K&R n/t

[The Green Manalishi]

97. Voting Democratic, of course

But only because it is like having the choice of gnawing off my little finger instead of my gonads.

[kath]

127. "like having the choice of gnawing off my little finger instead of my gonads"

Just had to see that again.

ANd, sadly, that's about where we are at this point. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[crim son]

98. Great post.

Extending the Bush taxcuts is my last straw too, and I wrote to the white house the other day to say as much.

We can't win. If we are proactive - like the teabaggers - and make our anger and discontent known, we are criticized, and belittled from both sides, repug and dem. We are called spoiled and unrealistic. If we sit back and accept that the change we were promised isn't going to come along, we are called apathetic and defeatist and are called out by those who believe we should be on the streets waving signs - like the teabaggers. It's all bullshit and I will not support anybody who extends the Bush tax cuts, PERIOD. My vote will not help perpetuate any more of the same old shit. I'm done.

[Enthusiast]

99. K&R

The sad part? I don't think they give one fuck what you (and I) think about how they vote or plan to vote. At this present juncture corporate campaign donations (and secret gifts) mean more than any individual voter outrage.

[sendero]

102. I agree...

.. as does anyone with the sense of a billy goat.

[MannyGoldstein]

103. God bless you.

Spot on.

This nightmare must end.

[indepat]

104. We are likely to get a double whammy: paying for extending junior's tax cuts for the wealthy by

gutting social security, a double-whammy, a windfall for the most affluent, a royal f*ckin', and new-found poverty for countless millions, brought to you by those turncoats with a (D) by their name. :P

[lordsummerisle]

107. Geez let's hope

that worse-case scenario doesn't happen...

[indepat]

111. It might not happen, but the hand-writing is on the wall and that's what the tea leaves are

screaming out. :)

Edited for context

[Hawkowl]

125. Agree 100%

The handwriting IS on the wall. Obama will trumpet his compromise solution of actually saving money by cutting SS by more than than the tax cuts are worth.

If Obama and the dems really wanted to win in November, Obama would dismiss his "fiscal commission" in the name of saving SS, saying that the commission overstepped its purview. He'd call on all democrats to turn out in November to stop rethuglicans from destroying SS.

The dems would win in a landslide and, for the first time in his administration, he'd have the rethugs on the defensive.

[L0oniX]

190. +1

[emilyg]

106. k/r

[bertman]

108. Rec and kick. nt

[soryang]

109. The democorporate party and the "expiring Bush tax cuts"

No Congress can bind a subsequent Congress concerning budgeting or tax matters. Therefore, in 2009, the Bush tax cuts became the Obama tax cuts (for the rich). The notion that is was mathematically impossible to change the tax code in 2009 is nonsense. Just as FDR did away with Supreme Court obstruction of the new deal, Obama's majority in the Senate could have easily done away with the cloture rule any time they wanted, temporarily, or otherwise. The reality, they are bought and paid for, and didn't want to alienate their corporate rich supporters. I'm getting tired of the good cop bad cop pretension of party differences in United States national politics. It is patently false.

[RandomThoughts]

113. That is why some want republicans back.

So they have a better excuse for grid lock.

Although it is not all of them, just some, in many levels.


I been thinking if the Soma distribution to the triangle people is pulled, that might have interesting effects.

[leeroysphitz]

115. kick

[ProfessionalLeftist]

116. K & R

If I'd written it (and I wish I had), it'd have been poo-poo'd and unrec'd into next Sunday, & around the moon and back. I'd be called a whiner, a diaper-filler, etc. - ie: I'd get the Rahm/Gibbs treatment (thus my handle here - it's a big 'f' you to those two and anyone else here with their attitude).

So, yea - kudos to you. :applause:

[wisteria]

120. Most Democrat leaders know the tax cuts should not be extended, but...

they are chicken-shits who fear a public backlash and loss of power for allowing them to expire. The Democrats use to know right from wrong, good from bad,and they are well aware that letting these tax cuts expire will lower the deficit. Why don't they press this point? They certainly have the Republicans on this one. Why don't they stand up and fight for what they know is right? I guess, it is more important to get campaign funds and get reelected than it is to do what is good for America.

[Ozymanithrax]

126. There are no "Democrat Leaders"

There is no "Democrat Party"
It is the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party Leaders.

Actually, they know that the Republican control of the media has sold that tax cuts equals jobs. Proof doesn't matter if they lose the elections because of a lie.

The Tax cuts should not be extended. Tax cuts should be increased for the middle class and working class, and reinstated to the wealthy.

But no argument can be offered that a simple majority of Americans believe, because they accept the Republican lie.

One other point, a Congressman is elected by only the voters in his or her Congressional district. If that district believes extending those tax cuts is a magic wand that will bring those jobs in on a pony then the Congressman needs to consider extending the tax cuts or be removed from office.

We often pretend we have national elections, but we do not. There are 435 congressional districts and that is 435 local elections. Senators are elected in state wide elections. Even the President, who is not being elected this year, is elected by 50 individual state elections.

We really need to quit thinking in terms of national elections and what Americans want. Those are irrelevant in local elections.

[Mimosa]

121. Great OP! K&R n/t

[Jim_Shorts]

122. The System is Broken

I'm not surprised by anything the dems vote for anymore, i feel like im living in alice in wonderland. Congress spends half its time raising campaign $. There are monopolies in almost every industry and now they can really contribute. (anonymously) Paul Krugman says that we can have an economy without a middle class so the rich don't really care. I think we're screwed unless we take to the streets, but we've all been cowed. (i'm not exactly sure how)

When France was losing too many jobs to immigration they took to the streets and got it stopped. The French government is afraid of it's citizenry. Big monied interests and our government are not afraid of us AT ALL.

If you read a Peoples History of the United States you will see this class struggle has always been going on, and they are very adept at dividing us. Sooner or later people will stand up but who knows how bad it will have to get

[defendandprotect]

143. Excellent point ... the longer we wait, the weaker we get -- the stronger/wealthier elites get -- !!

[Initech]

123. What we're witnessing is a corporate merger.

There has been so much bad blood between the democrats and republicons thanks to the likes of the Limbaughs and Hannitys of the world that it would only seem natural for the two parties to merge into one. Of course the new second party - is becoming the dangerous and scary teabagger movement. The problem with our two party system is that we only have two voices - the extreme right and the extreme left. Look at Europe where their governments often have 30+ parties representing a huge number of different viewpoints.

[defendandprotect]

144. Where is there an "extreme left" in America ... ???

Are you suggesting that people who want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

or an end to Bush/Reagan tax cuts for wealth -- are extreme left?

Or manybe those who want to preserve Social Security are extreme left?

Preserve publice education... extreme left?

Overturn trade agreements ... extreme left?

Restore New Deal regulations ... extreme left?

NATIONALIZE OIL INDSUTRY . . . extreme left? You might be interested to know that

the 1960 Democratic Platform called for NATIONALIZING OIL INDUSTRY!!

Glass Steagall -- extreme left?

[bkozumplik]

124. I completely agree

I hardly recognize our party anymore. Or the followers who lobby ferociously for acceptance of failure and lowered standards. Always pressuring to suck it up.

We're becoming less about dreams and making our civilization better, and more about bandaids and least-bad-choices. Its not just a pattern now, its all the time.

[defendandprotect]

128. The Democratic Party of FDR died a long time ago, overcome by elite/corporate money buying our

candidates and elected officials --

In fact, the DLC -- corporate wing -- actually moved into the party itself!!

Clinton and Gore - co-founders --

Hillary Clinton -- part of DLC leadership --

Obama admitting to being a "New Democrat" -- !!!

Corporations began buying government more than 40 years ago - and bribing our elected

officials -- it's been over a very long, long time.

Since all of this began, citizens have lost a lot of power -- and a lot of ability to

fight back. The longer we wait, the harder will be the battle!!

We need some new ideas -- what we've been doing isn't delivering the results we want!

[alp227]

131. Yeah seriously, the right-wing meme of "self-interested politicans" is ringing more true now

Why thank you very much, conservative-enabling lobbyists and corporations. Republicans have intimidated Democrats enough to make 'em look bad to everyone.

[niceypoo]

145. Wait, there's more...

The GOP will take over the government again, it is inevitable in a two party system. They will go back to Bush-o-nomics and it will be over. The economy will completely collapse under the weight of debt. The economy cannot stand another doubling or tripling of the national debt, and that is what they will do.

It is inevitable.

[kentestsgod]

147. Well said,

and mirrors my thoughts about our party since Rahm took
office.

[Lorien]

148. K&R. My last straw was that scam they dared to call "Health Care Reform"

All the bullshitters said that they would "fight for a public option" once it passed. Where are any of them now? Insurance companies keep raising their rates to obscene amounts and customers drop away...but they don't care. They'll get them all back in 2014 when we all are forced to pay those obscene rates for a "service" which will likely not serve us when it's needed. If Bush screwed us over like that we'd march on Washington. Instead we just "turn the page." Thankfully I have Alan Grayson as my rep, otherwise going to the polls at all would seem laughable in it's impotence.

[NorthCarolina]

156. +1000. Somebody that Gets It.

[L0oniX]

186. +10000000000000000000000000

[Jamastiene]

152. I honestly cannot see Unrec'ing this OP...

K&R

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polmaven]

155. I will take issue ONLY

with the section stating "The last straw for many Democrats will be the vote to extend the Bush taxcuts."

Though I believe the cuts for the wealthiest should never have been put in place to begin with, the cuts for the middle income people were and continue to be necessary. I have to agree with continuing those and letting the cuts for the $250,000 crowd expire. The vast majority of "small" businesses will not be in the 250k+ category, after deducting expenses etc, and will need the tax breaks. The CEOs like those profiled in a thread here yesterday, who have yearly gross incomes in the multi-millions can and most definitely should pay higher rates.

[jschurchin]

158. Outstanding thread my friend.

And I couldn't agree more. I am not willing to vote for EITHER party any more because they don't serve we the people. They serve only their corporate masters, and it really sucks.

[mikekohr]

159. The biggest mistake Democrats make is when we bend to Republican talking points

A perfect example is the argument that if government would relax regulations on the mortgage/banking industry that the market would create money out of thin air. The majority of Democrats in Congress went along with this argument, President Clinton signed the repeal of "Glass/Steegal," and the mortgage bubble grew, burst and collapsed the economy. And we now find ourselves digging ourselves out of another Republican economic black hole, one that many in our leadership were on the wrong side of.

mike kohr
Bureau County Democrats

[BlueJac]

161. Well said and very true

[creon]

162. criticism and controversy are not a problem.

Professional office holders want to keep their jobs, so they try to see to it that they are not 'fired'. Reapportionment is the first step; to create as many safe seats for themselves as they can. Next, is to raise as much money as they can, so they will not be outspent on advertising. Incumbents are very hard to unseat. That is one reason we have weak party discipline.

I live in a safe Republican district, in a safe Republican state. A Democrat, blue dog or progressive will not win. If, by some miracle, a Democrat does win, it will be a blue dog Democrat. We do have a divided party, and that is something, for the time being at least, that we will have to tolerate. The problem is not the GOP; they are not part of a solution. never have been, never will be.


This means, in order to get anything done, the factions of the Democratic Party have to find something that they can agree upon. We see how difficult that is. Basically, in order to get progressive legislation passed, progressives will have to be in office. That is the task: get progressives elected to office. Progessive legislation follows.

[wookie72]

163. It's not controversial to ask someone to do what they promised nt

[LibDemAlways]

167. I agree with you, Kentuck. Democrats ought to stand up for

Democratic Party principles. If they don't, they don't deserve to be in office. It's that simple.

[katandmoon]

172. "But we cannot be sure with this Democratic Party." And that says it all. K&R.

[Flashmann]

173. Ageed....

....And rec'd

[Pooka Fey]

174. Excellent post. K&R

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

175. This gives hope .....

Hope, because the responses are a reflection of the sanity that DU can be.
Not the "blast you if you say anything against the Dems or Obama" comments that many OP's disintegrate into.

Kentuck, thanks for this post.

I'm ready for a New Democratic Party. Let the games begin.

[Ferret Annica]

179. Good rant, it is why I'm no Democrat, but am a Pacific Green

I like lots of the good things about the Democratic Party, but they have to reinvent themselves back to relevancy.

And I hope they do so; or just die as a party peacefully if they don't.

[recovering democrat]

180. Logica and Accurate...BUT

still no reason to vote for Rethugs or stay home on election day under any circumstances. The rethugs and the tea-bag NUTS will out-vote us only if we let them.

[cascadiance]

181. + ....

[ChiciB1]

182. People Smell AND Are Seeing "Weakness" From Democrats & So

many of us who have been "the base" for so long have been kicked to the side of the road! And for THIS WH & our LEADERS to let this happen, how do THEY expect us to support the pieces of bread they "think" they're throwing our way??

It's no longer about "we the people" because THAT train left the station some time ago! I won't say that the DLC was the ONLY down fall, but it sure has made me lose A LOT OF RESPECT for a party I was always glad to be a part of!

Now, THEY LEFT ME, and so many of us are standing out in the rain, and they're saying... "THOSE people, it's only the base, THEY don't need an umbrella!" Let them slide back under that rock and go away!"

That's HOW they have made me feel!! Why do they want US to stand up and fight for THEM, when they won't even do it for us?? THEY have the power it seems, because they sure haven't been listening when we keep saying otherwise! Oh well, maybe I won't be here when it caves in! Unfortunately, I think I will!! Where once, I wanted to work hard to leave something better for my kids and those who will take power when I'm gone, now I'm forced to just TRY to keep things in order for the here and now!!

Ah well, as so many say to me ALL THE TIME, the one phrase I hear more than any other phrase these days is this..."what are you gonna do about it?" Most say, we just can't fight what's going on, because we are now being held hostage by something so much bigger, and those that have MONEY to make their agenda RULE!!

[kentuck]

184. So where do we go from here??

We know the Democratic Party is not representing us.

But we know we cannot let the Republicans back in power.

So how do we escape this political purgatory?

The sad truth is that no matter what the left might do this election cycle, even if we vote in huge numbers, the Repubs may still win the House and perhaps, the Senate, as well. Most likely, the left will vote in larger numbers than any other political group, left or right. But, we still may lose?

Why?

Because there is a large number of people in the middle of the political spectrum, not very politically savvy, that call themselves independents. They hear voices in the wind. And on television...and on FOX...etc. They believe themselves to be informed voters. But, in fact, they are nothing more than brain-washed zombies - sheep.

They have been captured by right-wing cults, like the Tea Party. They have little desire to search for the truth. They believe they already have it. They don't exactly remember where they got it.

So there we are.

Is it the fault of the left if the Democrats lose this election? Why?

And how bad will it be if the Repubs control the House and the Senate, at least for the next two years? Will the President sign the laws they pass? Will the people see them in a different light two years from now and put the Democrats back in power? What can they accomplish without the signature of Barack Obama?

Be afraid? Be very, very afraid?

[L0oniX]

185. My Rec button got stuck on this one. Yes the parties are 2 sides of the same coin.

I will have to hold my nose and close my eyes to vote for Dems in 2010. It will be like voting for repuke light or repuke dark. When salt looses its taste how do you make it taste like salt again? In other words ...when you through the Dem left of center under the buss then how does the Dem party stay Dem? They are forever leaning right of center to supposedly reach across the aisle to what and for what? Votes? How naive. Good luck with that.

As a side note ...I will be real curious as to how the DU admins handle this. Will they stand with what is right and true? Maybe I and or we could have a little more confidence if we actually knew where the admins stand. I thought they were for progressives too.

[KoKo]

197. "So there we are. Is it the fault of the left if the Democrats lose this election? Why?"

So there we are."

Is it the fault of the left if the Democrats lose this election? Why?

And how bad will it be if the Repubs control the House and the Senate, at least for the next two years? Will the President sign the laws they pass? Will the people see them in a different light two years from now and put the Democrats back in power? What can they accomplish without the signature of Barack Obama?

--------

That's an excellent question you ask, Kentuck. I quote above from your post on the thread.

I wonder about the answer to what you ask, myself.

All these years you and I have been here on DU...and I always saw you asking the difficult questions and as a person who always has been accused of asking "WHY?" too much ...and frustrating folks asking it over and over...

I wonder where it goes.

YOU ASK:

"How bad will it be if the Repugs control the House and Senate" (edit)..Will the President sign the laws they pass?"

Why don't we wait and see. We do the best we can but...don't you and I know that maybe it's time to "let the chips fall where they will" because it's in the "GAME" and "How it Plays Out" that we are left with after all our work that seems to have come up with this incredible failed thing that we had so much hope for.

What's Next? Why not let it play out with what you say. I can't feel guilt for not "having done enough" to change things when our small band here did what we could for years. I feel so badly that we couldn't move the system from the way it's playing out. But, I can't sit worrying about it and making myself get sick over it anymore.

LET IT PLAY OUT....... :shrug:

[kentuck]

198. Are you willing to take that gamble, KoKo...

Yes, we have fought some long, hard battles together.

We could end up with the Republicans for two years before we have another chance to kick them out.

Would they try to impeach the President and would he make a deal with them to save his ass?

I think those are legitimate questions.

Or is it too much of a gamble to take the chance? We need to do everything we can possibly do to keep this present bunch of Democrats in power? Otherwise, what do we end up with??

[KoKo]

199. I have a House Member and a possible new Senator from NC..that I'm working for...

I believe in both of them and am working hard to get them elected. But, the whole system is corrupt and they will make little difference. I'm working for them...because I still believe "every little bit counts" ...but given what we elected at the TOP and who he chose...and the way the House and Senate works I have little hope that those I work for will end up being able to do much.

So....I figure...it will be a gamble. After this turn...I think I'm finished with it.

We really need to CHANGE what's going on..to get the BIG MONEY out of POLITICS and to CHANGE the WAY OUR MEDIA RUNS and USES our AMERICAN PEOPLE's AIRWAVES. What have our Democrats done to CHANGE THAT?

I thought Obama might...but he didn't His Cabinet picks for FCC were BIG BUSINESS...OBAMA IS BIG BUSINESS.

It gets tiresome electing folks who don't even have a CLUE about what's going on...and if they do and don't ever work to change it...then they are COMPLICIT IN IT!

We can see by now...how far our Dems are Complicit in it...can't we? :shrug:

[kentuck]

200. Do you think the Party would change ?

If we sent a bunch of them home and put the rest of them in the minority, for at least two years?
Or would they think they need to move even farther right to win in the next election??

I understand where you're coming from. This is a decision that Democrats will have to make. If we keep them in the majority, what changes?

[KoKo]

205. We who have been around awhile

probably know the answer to that.

The change has to come nationwide...to realize that the Media and Financial System is corrupt from the top and therefore the bottom learns from the top and the corruption goes on.

We gave them a majority...but it didn't matter. The Blue Dogs are blamed but the leadership could have done what the Repugs did when they were the majority and minority. They ruled! Cracked heads, took away choice appointments and campaign money if you didn't vote the way the Repugs wanted. Dems could have done the same thing. But, look at Lieberman. He ran as an "indie" and kept all his appointments. Harry Reid wanted to keep his influence so he could hide behind it when he couldn't get the votes.

In the House Cynthia McKinney lost her seat and when she ran again and won, Pelosi refused to give her back her seniority. Others were treated similarly.

Both parties are to blame. We can see that now. But, changing it? Will take massive movement from the people out here. And most Americans aren't as aware as we in Netroots are. We have to get the money out of elections and that would be a step in changing this biased and incestuous media.

[LWolf]

191. Too late to recommend, but I'll give it a kick.

I don't think the two-party system is near death, though. The two parties are evolving, the nation is evolving, and if one party becomes defunct, another will take it's place.

The parties will change, be re-named, the platforms will change, but it will remain a polarized fight between 2 mega "teams," because that's what our system supports.

How do we shift that?

We need proportional representation, we need some form of IRV, and we need 100% publicly financed elections, with equal, and equally neutral, media time, and debates that ask all candidates the same questions, and give each candidate equal talk time.

How are we going to achieve that, when those who would have to enact that legislation are feeding off the corporate tits and controlled by party leaders that don't want to share power?

[suffragette]

203. + 1,000

Agree with all you say LWolf.

And indeed the problem is how do we achieve that?

[LWolf]

207. Critical mass.

As long as the majority keeps playing the team game, I don't think we can.

If enough people ignored the partisan election dramas and withheld their votes from those unwilling to enact that change, it could happen.

Only when voters decide that holding politicians accountable is more important than following partisan or ideological "leaders," and belonging to a "team," will we be able to enact real change.

In my opinion.

[AnArmyVeteran]

192. Republican Party = Piranha... Democrat Party = Cowardly Red Meat...

Just how long are leaders of the democratic party going to allow themselves to be devoured by the republican party?

Republican Party = Bloodthirsty Piranha
Democrat Party = Cowardly Red Meat

[Pushed To The Left]

202. I'm getting really frustrated too

A lot of the time, I'm voting for Democrats to keep the Republicans from getting in and doing damage. I'm enthusiastic about some candidates I vote for, while others are simply the lesser of two evils. An eye opener for me here in California has been Prop 19, which would legalize small amounts of marijuana. Much to my dismay, many Democratic candidates have come out strongly against this initiative and in support of the drug war. I will still vote for Democrats, but it won't be with nearly the enthusiasm that it could have been. I am enthusiastic about some of the more progressive local Democrats running though.