My mother's 'socialized medicine' story

[GCP]

Feel free to quote this to any teabagger.

My mother's an 80 year old English lady. She recently found a lump in her breast and went to see her doctor. He told her she needed to see a specialist, and made an appointment for her for the next day in a town about 30 miles away. She has no transport and told the doctor so. "No problem" he said, and arranged for a taxi to pick her up (and a friend she wanted to take with her), drive her to the appointment. She had a mammogram, ultra-sound and a consult (the lump was found to be benign), was driven home, and all at the expense of the National Health Service.

No money changed hands, and she wasn't going to be getting a bill.

I wish we had socialized medicine like that.

[gateley]

1. I've told the story about how my friend's brother was traveling and

contracted something, he thinks, in Egypt. Went to Paris and the symptoms appeared, and he felt like hell. Went to London and felt like he was going to die. He went to the hospital and the nurse asked him "did you get this in England?" He said "no, I think I got it in Egypt." So she asked him again -- very pointedly -- Did. You. Get. This. In. England? He got it so he said "why, yes, yes I did." He was hospitalized for like 6 weeks, given medication to take home and didn't pay a penny. His conservative parents thought that was "just ridiculous".

I can't IMAGINE having such good, hassle-free health care!

[GCP]

2. His parents would welcome a huge bill?

That's what's ridiculous about our system.

[gateley]

3. He was an adult and they wouldn't have paid the bill anyway -- but

it shows how we've been brainwashed that our For Profit "health care" is the Best In The World. :eyes:

[malaise]

4. Health Care for profit is the real

Death Panel

[gateley]

5. A-fucking-men. nt

[iamjoy]

6. Indeed

But, I agree with those who say the US has the best health care in the world. I just add one caveat.

if you have the money to pay for it

Countries with socialized medicine ration by need and effectiveness. We ration by ability to pay.

[Doremus]

40. It's mediocre, with or without money.

The quality of our healthcare in this country is so-so.

With what we pay for it we should be given solid gold pens as a thank you parting gift.

[keepCAblue]

43. And it's going to get worse. The health insurance industry...

...has vowed to increase premiums while decreasing benefits. That means more profit for them and less services for patients. Anyone who stupidly bleats that we have the best healthcare in this country has their head in the sand...or up their butt.

[ThatsMyBarack]

56. Sounds like what my insurance company is doing.

:grr:

[daleanime]

33. Hell yea...

:grr:

[truth2power]

34. That should be on a bumper sticker. n/t

[Raster]

39. No trueer words, my friend. Health care for profit is evil.

:kick:

[Joe Chi Minh]

7. Terrific (hilarious) anecdote! You do come across some wonderful people.

[eridani]

28. I understand that there are charitable funds that foreigners who don't pay into the

--system can contribute to if they want to.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GCP]

9. I omitted to mention she'd had an accident

Get this, she'd been riding her bike and a young woman almost knocked her down with her car. Mum got badly bruised on the breast and she found the lump a week or so later. My assumption is that they found a fluid-filled cyst from the injury. As I have another elderly (80+) aunt who's just had breast cancer surgery over there, I think you're full of it.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Morning Dew]

11. You're on a roll.

:rofl:

[GCP]

13. You put up an unreadable link

Which seems to be the New England Journal of Medicine talking about liberating the NHS? Written by an american doctor no doubt.
They have better life expectancy and infant mortality than the US, at much less of a cost, but then, I guess you're a troll and don't want to know how much this country is fucked up.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GCP]

16. As long as you have good insurance

Otherwise you could end up bankrupt. End of.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GCP]

22. What part of greater life expectancy

Do you not understand?
And BTW, when you're in the american hospital, let's hope you didn't take medication for acne when you were a teenager because your great for-profit insurance company might just decide to deny you coverage the day before breast cancer surgery is planned.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/18/AR2009091803501.html

http://www.correntewire.com/how_secret_health_insurance_company_blacklists_deny_you_coverage

I'll give Obama one thing, his bill gets rid of crap like this.

Also British breast cancer rates are better than Sean Hannity's telling you.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100811193425.htm

[xocet]

23. US Health Care at its Finest....

A 17-year old died just hours after her health insurance company reversed its decision not to pay for a liver transplant that doctors said the girl needed.

Nataline Sarkisyan died Thursday night at about 6 p.m. at University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center. She had been in a vegetative state for weeks, said her mother, Hilda.

"She passed away, and the insurance (company) is responsible for this," she said.

(http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Teen_dies_after_insurance_nixes_transplant_1221.html)

Hey, Karen. How much do the insurance companies pay per post these days? I thought that the lobbying effort was over.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

20. Where is the part about for fee medicine becoming the norm in the UK?

So the NHS is being reorganized, that's not even in the same solar system as full private insurance without even a public option.

[Mariana]

27. The story going around among the RWers I'm related to

is that all those numbers indicating higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality and so on are false. The governments of those countries with socialized medicine fudge the numbers, you see, all of them, to hide that people are actually dying like flies in those countries because of rationing. They don't have the slightest scrap of evidence that this misrepresentation is going on, mind you, but they believe it fervently.

[txlibdem]

63. That's pretty much par for the course I'd say

RWers are used to living in a fantasy world.

Trickle down economics, tax cuts don't have to be paid for, the best way to fix education is to destroy education, Corporations are people, etc.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Anyone who uses the term "market forces" is automatically suspect in my book

One of the damned disciples of laissez-faire economics:

"There is no god but Market Forces, and Milton Friedman is his prophet."

Fuck that. The misery caused by Market Forces and Friedman's heartless philosophy is second only to the misery caused by war.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. Bummer, missed the party.

Any leftover pizza?

[Raster]

61. And usually wars are the result of market forces coming to bear in the worst ways.

[soleiri]

26. Wait

your mother is an 80 year old woman who rides a bike?
How cute is that?


I'm glad she's okay.

[onethatcares]

12. I'm glad for your mum,

but just think how happy she would be to have to think about going thru a radical masectomy, a long hospital stay and the great possibility of losing her home just because she had a bicycle accident.

Gaud our health care system is so much better than yours, I can't count the ways:sarcasm:

[bullwinkle428]

15. K&R. Hang your head in shame, Robert Gibbs.

[geckosfeet]

21. damned socialists - as well all know - the UK is a socialist country

[Skittles]

24. nice

hey GCP, we have something in common - my mum is an 80 year old English lady too :hi:

does she have war stories like mine does? :o

[GCP]

29. Mainly the rationing!

She worked on a farm as a farm-girl during the war, to help with the food effort.

[eagertolearn]

25. one daughter had 6 stiches in a Eugene ER after waiting 6 hours

And that cost $1,400 and the other got immediate care in Germany 26 stiches, many other wounds cleaned, tetanus shot, pain pills, antibiotics and dressings for several days all for $75.

[keepCAblue]

44. My bill for a breathing treatment -- about 2 hrs in the E.R. : $3000

AND I had California Blue Cross/Blue Shield at the time who REFUSED to cover it because they said it was due to a pre-existing condition (I had a history of childhood asthma but I was nearly fifty at the time of the ER visit, which was due to a severe case of the flu that led to an upper respiratory infection) I tried to fight the insurance company but they refused to even talk to me and never answered my letters. The hospital finally sent my bill to collection and I then had to deal with vile bill collectors for months before paying off the bill. Yeah, tell me more about how great our health care is in this country. :puke:

[SheilaT]

55. Stories like yours,

which happen dozens, maybe hundreds, possibly thousands of times every single day in this country, need to be widely and loudly publicized.

The real insidious thing about those who think our health care system is just fine, is that they either simply never get sick (I actually happen to be in that category but I DON'T think our health care system is just fine) or they are members of Congress or corporate executives or in some other class where they have truly excellent health care. And have never come up against the "pre-existing" bullshit, or have never had the kind of illness/accident which has them come up against their actual monetary limits.

If every single person who had an experience at all like yours would send copies of all the bills and correspondence to their Senators and Representatives, maybe they'd start to understand. CC the WH while you're at it.

[lyonn]

65. True, as long as you stay healthy you may never realize

that the insurance companies are screwing the people. I'm 72 now, but while raising our family we had no insurance since my husband believed in investing in property, etc. instead. We paid for the birth of 3 kids, one kid spent a week in hospital due to a human bite (crazy huh?) one had a hernia repaired and I had some serious radiation treatments and spent a week in the hospital (1970's), all of which we paid for without taking out a loan, in fact we can't remember the cost it was so reasonable. In 2008 I had the flu, spent 1 week in hospital with lung problems and the cost was $18,000.. I have medicare A & B and it paid for all but $1000..

We do have close friends with horror stories about their insurance companies. One had part of a lung removed one day and the hospital wanted to send her home the next day, tubes and all. Her husband raised hell and she stayed. How insane is that. Mostly they won't know until their company denies them, then, hopefully, the light comes on. There are some that are so diehard R's that they would blame it on Obama or all Dems. Ugh

[SheilaT]

67. That's another thing.

They send patients home far too early, often needing care that family members really can't or shouldn't be providing, because they are not medical care professionals.

My sister is a compliance auditor, meaning she reviews charts to make certain things have been coded correctly, and has told me stories of patients sent home who are expected to be able to catheterize themselves.

[lyonn]

69. Coding - so that is how they get by with discarding patients

Is it the hospital's cooperation or what? The whole system needs an overhaul. How did health care in the 70's and 80's that was reasonably priced get to the shape it is in now? I'm stuck on blaming the repubs. Let the market take care of itself, boy did they. We need rules for the health, banking, contracts, taxes, etc., that we can depend on. In other words, regulations. Oh how the R's hate those damn restrictions preventing them from shearing the sheep.

Oh, and I spend only 3 days in hospital due to flu complications. Senior/senile moment.

[Change Happens]

30. Similar story my dad tells in Sweden, he is NOT Swedish, he was visiting there, fell on ice

hurt his back...After avoiding going to see a doctor for this, fearing costs and other issues, he goes to the doctor, they ordered x-rays, called a taxi for him, taxi waited outside - he got the x-rays, taxi waited outside for him, returned to the clinic, discussed everything with the doctor...etc. Then went home...Paid nothing, zero, nada.

Later I learned that the government has contracts with local taxi companies to "cover" this "benefit." Of course the benefit is the taxi service.

[Change Happens]

31. Similar story my dad tells in Sweden, he is NOT Swedish, he was visiting there, fell on ice

hurt his back...After avoiding going to see a doctor for this, fearing costs and other issues, he goes to the doctor, they ordered x-rays, called a taxi for him, taxi waited outside - he got the x-rays, taxi waited outside for him, returned to the clinic, discussed everything with the doctor...etc. Then went home...Paid nothing, zero, nada.

Later I learned that the government has contracts with local taxi companies to "cover" this "benefit." Of course the benefit is the taxi service.

[War Horse]

32. Anecdote from Norway...

I once got my hand caught between the jaws of a German Shepherd and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I mean literally, both dogs bit down on each side of my hand at the same time. I could see the ground through a pretty big hole in the left side of my hand, and one knuckle (index finger side) got crushed pretty badly.

At the ER the doc checked my hand and requested a surgeon (specialist). I was told that it was a matter of millimeters whether I'd retain movement in 3, possibly 4, of my fingers. The knuckle might never be 100% restored.

Today, all my fingers are 100% ok. The knuckle is only about 95%, and that's a good as it will ever get.

I play the guitar and lift weights without any problems, and I'm very pleased with the treatment I received.

The whole thing (surgery, follow-up, drugs, shots etc) cost me NOK 1200, about USD 200 according to today's exchange rate. I have no idea how much something like this would cost in the US.

Things aren't perfect over here, and there are always things that need improvement, but it seems like there are some horror stories across the pond about 'Socialized Medicine' that have absolutely zero to do with reality...

[madmax]

38. In the US if you didn't have insurance

you would have never had the surgery. A rabies shot and a band aid for you my friend.

I'm happy to read that you have the use of your hand. :hi:

[truedelphi]

58. If you had no insurance, or County run insurance for the below poverty group

Your hand would not have been repaired.

Yesterday someone at DU had a story up and running about a relative with a broken jaw. No one will operate on it (The person can be seen for free at a free clinic, but surgeons will not take anyone into an operating room unless the money, or excellent insurance policy is handed to them first.)

[raouldukelives]

35. We must fight on for a public option

I'm afraid we'll never see a Christian health care program like England but ah, who am I kidding. Better start raising chickens.

[jpak]

36. What - no DEATH PANELS? Is someone lying to us? I thought the NHS was a disaster!

or so we are told.

k&r

[jpak]

37. My Health Canada story

I came down with a horrible respiratory illness at sea of the coast of Newfoundland. I was taken to an ER in St, John's NF and was accompanied by another American.

We both expect I would be in the ER all day and night (like the US) and perhaps even denied care because I was not a Canadian citizen.

I saw a doctor within 5 minutes who did an exam with blood and urine work.

The results were back within 20 minutes - I got a prescription (dirt cheap) at a local pharmacy and was on my way back to the ship.

I wasn't charged a thing.

10 years later I was working again in St. John's NF and had to have a physical for a deployment to the nether regions.

I saw a physician, a cardiologist & a dentist within three days - no death panels, no months on a waiting list. It cost my employer only 1/3 the cost of a similar exam in the States - which usually to a month or more to complete.

and - I was still in there medical records from my ER visit 10 years earlier.

Socialized medicine sucks

not

[kedrys]

41. Here's another - a coworker just had a quad bypass

He waited a whole 2 months between his doctor telling him he needed the surgery and actually getting it. If his life had been in imminent danger, they would have operated immediately.

He sailed through the surgery. They discharged him 6 days later, sent him home with meds and a mild exercise program, and a nurse makes a home visit every 2 days. He didn't have to pay a dime, and his job waits for him when he's done with his recovery in a couple of months.

And did I mention no $$$ changed hands? Not even after the planned triple bypass turned into a quadruple bypass once they cracked him open and had a good look.

[jpak]

50. Here's another from Chile

An American friend of mine now lives in Chile with his Chilean wife

They twins - after the delivery doctors made HOUSE CALLS(!)

It cost him $300

[Dual4545]

54. A small quibble

Canada does not have socialized medicine - it is single payer like Medicare.

[avaistheone1]

42. That kind of peace of mind is priceless.

Hurray for socialized medicine.

[keepCAblue]

45. Michael Moore's "Sicko" has many examples of "socialized medicine"

U.K., France, Canada, even Cuba. All beat the U.S. healthcare system, hands down, and treat their citizens with humanely and compassionately. The U.S. is a shameless landscape of greed, profit and selfishness -- where corporations are considered "people" who don't give a damn whether we, the real people, live or die.

[Darth_Kitten]

48. I don't envy you Americans.....

I'm sorry, but HOW do you even manage to keep it all together? I'm sorry, your wages suck, and you don't have the access to "socialized" medicine.

:hug:

[awoke_in_2003]

64. "HOW do you even manage to keep it all together?"...

years and years of propoganda coupled with the fact that if you protest you may be arrested, which will most likely mean you lose your job. And the beatings will continue until morale improves.

[vanlassie]

46. We ration healthcare here.

I have twice this year been told that the specialist (NOT the insurance co) would read my file and
decide IF they wanted to see me, and how soon. Cherry-picking. After all, I didn't refer myself, my MD referred me.

[arikara]

47. My Mr has had 4 heart attacks

at least 4 angioplasty's, 2 cardiac eblation procedures and has an implanted defibrillator. He also has diabetes. We have never paid a cent for any of his medical care because we live in Canada. If he has any problems he gets right in to the doctor's office, or into emergency if need be. He is still working, but I suspect he'd be dead if we lived in the US. Pre-existing conditions and all.

[Liberal_in_LA]

51. great story

[harmonicon]

52. The NHS is amazing

I've lived in the UK for 3 years now. I've never had any major operation here or anything like that, but just being able to go to the doctor and not worry about money or paying (a lot of money) for medication is amazing. It is one of the reasons why I'm planning to stay here for as long as possible.

[AllyCat]

53. She had to wait a whole 24 hours to get care? Just proving their point

(dripping sarcasm) We waited 7 weeks to get tubes in our toddlers ears when he had not responded to 6 of the 7 possible antibiotics and had demonstrated hearing loss. With good insurance, I just paid the last of those bills 6 months later, after threats of collection for not paying the entire amount owed (about $650 of the $4500 cost) ALL AT ONCE. But hey, we have the best health care in the world. I think. At least he can hear now.

[irislake]

57. We have that in Canada too.

But you will never get it while your politicians (Democrats as well as Republicans) are completely owned and controlled by the corporations. The corporations must love the two party system cuz it gets you fighting viciously against one another leaving them free to loot the country. Divide and conquer. There is so much anger in your country but it is all aimed at the wrong folk!

Horrible to watch!

[grahamhgreen]

59. The crap HCR bill is a disaster - what happened to those who said we'd fix iit?

[polmaven]

60. Yeah, but, but, but....

Everybody knows that Great Britain's health care is so bad! I mean gee,...you have to wait weeks for...um.....you can't get an appoint...um.....they don't have the equipme....umwait...I know there is SOMETHING! Oh, never mind.

I'm really glad the lump was benign and your mother is apparently well.

P.S. I wis we could have that kind of socialized medicine too, but it is NEVER going to happen here.

[WildClarySage]

62. I once had an emergency hospitalization denied

as a "pre-existing condition". I'd had an ovarian cyst rupture. :eyes:

A couple of weeks ago, I landed in the ER with an allergic reaction to Amoxicillan. After waiting two hours in the ER waiting area, the only person who'd looked at me as I itched uncontrollably and scratched feverishly with swollen hands and gasping for breath most of that time, the only hospital employee who spoke to me was the registration clerk. After I went back to the examination area, I had a clear view of the treatment desk and the staff standing and chatting. Finally one peeled off the group to come talk to me. An hour after that, I saw the doctor who informed me that I didn't have a rash. She said stop taking the meds (ya think?) and started to discharge me. Thankfully my wonderful girlfriend is a nursing tech and she insisted they give me a shot of antihistamine before discharge, at which time, I finally started to breathe and feel a little less like I was on fire.

All together, I spent 5 hours at that hospital ER that night. My bill was over $800 for treatment that consisted of a shot of Benedryl. Tell me again how we have the best??? :eyes:

[mwooldri]

66. Good to hear about your mum - that she is OK.

NHS healthcare is first rate, but the wait lists for said care are somewhat of a "lottery", it depends on where you live... sometimes the wait list is short, in other places it is longer.

Example: my dad waited a few weeks for an appointment to see a cardiac specialist, and long story short - he ended up missing his appointment. He feared a long wait again to get to see the specialist and very reluctantly for the first time decided to use his employer-provided private healthcare plan. He got to see the same specialist at the private hospital a couple of days later instead of waiting another 4-6 weeks to see the guy at the NHS hospital.

The NHS is a pretty good concept, but it's the waiting lists that kill it IMO. It also leads Britain to a two-tier healthcare system - the fast track for those who can pay or have private insurance, or the not-so-fast track for those who have no choice but the NHS.

For a lot of routine stuff, the NHS is fantastic. For accident and emergency, they can't be beat and you don't have some office administrator there asking for your insurance card. If it weren't for the NHS, half of my family would have met an early death.

Hopefully the Con-LibDem government doesn't mess up the NHS too much, since new governments tend to always mess with the NHS once they get to power...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. When I was in England, I asked people about the NHS

Here's the most striking story, from the landlady of a B&B I stayed in:

She went for her annual physical, and her doctor told her that he suspected cancer. (She did not say where.) She had further tests, which confirmed the presence of cancer, and then surgery and chemo. So far, she had been fine for several years.

I asked her how much time elapsed between her doctor's initial suspicions and the date of her surgery.

"I was scheduled for tests two days later and had my surgery two weeks after that," she said.

No death panels for her!