Did McCain intentionally take a fall in 2008?

[TwixVoy]

You know to this day I really haven't believed any article I have read explaining McCains choice of Palin in 2008. She was a complete moron (even in the eyes of the sheeple) who came out of no where who brought nothing to the table.

It was such an idiotic move.... Even if I were to believe McCain was truly that stupid I find it nearly impossible to believe his handlers were.

Now we see that the US economy is fu**ed beyond recognition. The result of decades of republican moves to destroy the middle class. It was a death by one thousand cuts.

Now the American public are being told the very people who caused this mess will save them, and it's all "Obamas fault". Do these people have the memory span of a snail? The economy was in a nose dive LONG before most Americans even heard the name Obama.

I have to believe that the republicans wanted to sabotage their own campaign in 2008 so they could set up the democrats to take the fall they knew was coming.

If the republicans take congress in November it is going to be a very very very bad situation for the US and the world. Any hope anyone had left of economic recovery will be finished. The republicans will deal the death blow to the middle class this time around.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. pssst... 2008

[GrantDem]

2. You mean 2008???

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. 2008?

[Wilms]

4. Kerry took the fall in '04, McCain in '08.

It's all staged.

[karynnj]

41. You might be right had you said the "Democratic and Republican party pwers that be"

but it was not true of either man. The fact is that if it were staged, there would not have been anything like the SBVT. There is no way that someone who places the value Kerry does on his honor and integrity would have agreed to having his service, marriage (and his wife's excellent reputation), and his Senate career smeared.

It is interesting to note that both McCain and Kerry were, to some degree "outsiders" to the "leadership" of their parties - which I would define as the Clinton DLC wing, dreaming of a second Clinton presidency, and the Bush/Frist/McConnell Republicans. If you look at it, the only real DLC candidates were Lieberman, who they had to know could not win; Edwards, who they likely saw as too inexperienced to win the nomination, but a young future superstar. Kerry is on lists of the DLC, but never was given a leadership position there and his vote were closer to Kennedy's than theirs. The sad thing is that Kerry is a team player, who did not get the support of the "team" he loyally supports (and supported).

This is less a conspiracy, but a reflection of the fact that it was clear in 2002, that it was unlikely that 2004 would be a good year for the Democrats, just as in 2006, it was clear that 2008 was not a good year for the Republicans. It was also clear that a Democrat taking office in 2004, would have been blamed for not creating a shining city on a hill in Iraq. (It was also clear to economists that the economy was likely to decline - though few would have predicted what did happen. By 2008, the tide had turned and Democratic legislation was a possibility.

I think though that both men really wanted to be President. In Kerry's case, the sadness showed when he spoke of things he could have done that he thought would have made the world or country better. (Here's a small clip from a MA town hall speaking of what he could have done when Abbas was first elected - PLEASE listen to the first minute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXd66eae9K8

Kerry is a serious committed public statesman, who often did important thing that he knew would make it harder to win an election to the Presidency. If you look at the major actions that he has given years of his career to, you can see he is not the typical politician aiming to do whatever is most likely to make him President. The latter is not necessarily a bad thing, it does mean that you work hard to do what is needed to be seen as doing an exceptionally good job and/or showing huge promise. Compare Kerry's choices to Clinton, one of the most successful people, who focused on becoming President.

Can you imagine a young Bill Clinton, had he become a war hero leading an antiwar effort - or would he be "considering his political viability"? Would Bill Clinton, as a young promising Governor fought to end an illegal funding of the Contras and even allowing drugs to enter the country -- mostly through Arkansas? That is what a promising young Senator took on. Would Bill Clinton have fought every power that be for 5 years while undertaking an investigation of a Pakistani bank, that was facilitating international terrorist and drug runners? We know he seemed to ignore the report when he became President. Would Clinton have chosen to head a controversial committee, which was seen by everyone as lose/lose that required 14 emotionally difficult trips to Vietnam, because it was the right thing to do?

Then think about the fact that Kerry was out in Iowa, working 16 hour days within months of cancer surgery. The entire extended Kerry/Heinz families and a large number of his life long friends were 100% committed. There is no doubt his goal was to win the Presidency - to be able to do the things he spoke of in the campaign. Far more than ANY the 2004 or 2008 candidates, Kerry's motive was based on many issues he is passionate about - and which he is still working as hard as he can - as Senator, with a fraction of the ability to set policy.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

5. McCain was the serious Repuke candidate in 2000. Not so much in 2008.

Not at all in 2004.

[RandomThoughts]

6. hehe.

They been listening to the voices. Once their communication lines were found they been doing crazy stuff. Finding entry points for years has had a reason. And more then scouting.

The voices they listened to, and the realities of truthful stuff is shorting out many places. The confusion can't mix with the better thoughts.

Look closely at what this song says.

Dog and Butterfly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfrO5PAhH4


Note: was going to write a story. Tracing back through some thoughts can fry a mind, but there are ways to move feelings to better thoughts to avoid that. Although not what I believe more of a mixed metaphor and part of thoughts on a story.

[zeemike]

25. One of the all time great songs.

I am so happy I have broad band and can see these wonderful viedos...thanks.

[DJ13]

7. He didnt

But his handlers (the real power in the shadows regardless of party) did.

Its pretty well acknowledged he didnt seem to have a say in Palin being chosen for his VP, so the logical conclusion is his handlers deliberately sabotaged him.

[gateley]

8. Believe it. McCain and his handlers WERE that stupid. nt

[zeemike]

26. And stupid can be a powerful tool.

It makes for plausible deni-ability when things go wrong....just made a bad judgment call...not a part of a larger plan,so keep moving...nothing to see here.

[etherealtruth]

9. It certainly appears that way

I have no affection for Mccain .... but, one has to believe only the cognitively or judgment impaired would choose Palin, McCain is not. Add to that his fairly obvious personal distaste for his running mate

[etherealtruth]

10. Sorry duplicate post

[pretzel4gore]

11. yes. bush needed time to disappear...

following '08 election, bush desperately needed time. to fade away. obama was the guy could both give bush time and meanwhile galvanise the rightwing; so they lost nothing. Old Man Magoo never wanted the WHouse, but ...taking candy from a baby requires 1) a baby (the people) 2) candy (power over the people) and 3) a taker (the reactionary right active in obama administration)...obviously, the reactionary right would not be a very good 'taker' in a mr magoo adminstration!

[The_Commonist]

12. That's pretty much what I thought.

Starting about 2 days after he selected her to be his running mate.
They saw the economic writing on the wall, and wanted the Dem to get elected to take the fall.
It's really the only thing that makes sense, to explain their behavior.
And now, we have to deal with the horrible fallout - living in Sarah Palin's 24/7 Twitterverse.

[Drunken Irishman]

13. I don't know, did Mondale take a fall in 1984?

No one could take that campaign seriously, right? Remember when he promised to raise taxes on live TV? While maybe being honest and absolutely correct about Reagan lying about saying he wouldn't raise taxes, it was a dumb, dumb move.

My point? Sometimes there are just dumb candidates with a dumb strategy. Who told Dukakis to go ride in the tank? Who told Bush to look at his watch in the debate against Clinton?

There are countless idiotic moves by losers over the years. Why did Bush pick Quayle? He won - but it cost him in 1992 (one of many reasons).

Why did Gore pick Lieberman? It ultimately hurt him among Democratic voters and didn't help at all in Florida.

Gore in 2000 ran an inept campaign. I mean, truly inept. It wasn't until the final 48 hours that he decided to run something even remotely competent and it got him back into the race.

[tomg]

14. Only one point of disagreement.

Goldfish, not snails.Goldfish have shorter attention spans. By the time they go around the bowl, they forget they have ever been there before.

[Maccagirl]

15. Yes, myself and others have been saying this ever since the

election. I honestly thought Obama had better political instincts than he's shown (I knew Pelosi and Reid would be disasters). The media hasn't surprised me at all. Go ahead America the Idiot, give 'em back the keys and get it over with.

[Ozymanithrax]

16. He had a problem with the religious right...who never accepted him.

Palin brought the religious right on board, probably because a lot of them were praying for McCain to go to his reward once he won.

My other explanation is not political. I think he just Od'd on Viagra.

[Gman]

17. If McCain were to have any chance whatsoever of beating Obama

he had to somehow throw some red meat to the lunatic fringe right wing and get them motivated to go vote. It was a big, all or nothing swing for the fence with a full count, 2 outs, losing by 10 runs and nobody on base. He may have hit the home run with the "base" but next up struck out and he lost big.

[Skidmore]

18. That's giving that craven powerhungry old fart way too much credit.

And, recall that he unloaded Palin and Joe the Plumber on the nation. He could have just as easily shifted leftward and made such a move had meaning. He didn't...he pandered to the hard right. And still is. It's time for him to go.

[hlthe2b]

19. You give McCain far too much credit, I believe...

his desperation and arrogance got the better of him... that is the explanation, I truly believe.

[Scuba]

20. To paraphrase Bill Hicks....

It doesn't matter who gets elected. Immediately after Inaugaration you're ushered into a dark room and a greasy guy with a cigar says "roll the film". You see a video of the Kennedy assasination, from an angle you've never seen before.

[nini]

21. He didn't.. the party threw him under the bus

they didn't want the presidency in 2008 so they could blame W's mess on Obama and the Dems. A big clue was when McCain was given Palin when he wanted Lieberman.

They were playing for 2010 knowing no one would be able to clean up the mess they left in a couple years.

[Morning Dew]

22. He was the fall guy. His intention? Not so much. He got to play the part of Bob Dole. n/m

[TheCowsCameHome]

23. He didn't have far to fall, since he's a bottom feeder anyway.

[stray cat]

24. We may end up electing those worse than him in 2010 and 2012

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. I think so.

[opihimoimoi]

28. Nope...he was seen as outmoded outfoxed old man...not fit to lead...

The current econ is not as bad as the Pubs want us to believe...

The stands are filled in all sports...Nascar, nfl. nba, baseball

[RandomThoughts]

29. Nascar is a metaphor for the republicans.

Who can get nowhere the fastest and use the most gas doing it.

:shrug:

Maybe some would say the same about me :)

[opihimoimoi]

30. The K Busch and T Stewart fans drive for miles and pay hugh ticket pices

Beer @ $6.00 per mug, dogs at $4.00, etc....these guys are Thriving...

[jmowreader]

32. This is one of the truest statements here...

The economy is actually coming out exactly like the Republicans want it to. The rich are still rich--maybe not as rich as they once were, but there's still serious money out there--and the lower class has expanded to absorb the middle class.

[opihimoimoi]

37. The Rich are Richer....they have means to exploit their wealth

we don't

[david13]

31. If you look at his campaign, you have to believe that he may not n o t

wanted the job. He made every pathetic mistake he could.
But you have to understand his personality. Maverick is probably not the correct word, perhaps obnoxious jerk is.
dc

[canetoad]

33. With hindsight, yep...

An extremely idiotic move. However at the time, I believe those that selected Palin thought it was a brilliant, mavricky, flash of inspiration.

[pgodbold]

34. He cud not seh teh stoopid. He cud jest seh teh tits. nt

[Curmudgeoness]

35. I have always believed that the Reps did not really want to win

this time around. They knew what was coming and they knew it would be really bad. Pretty good move to throw the shit on the Dems and let them look like they are smelling the country up.

And stop talking so nasty about snails.

[howaboutme]

36. You mean do the "powers that be" operate on a higher plane than the serfs?

George Carlin said it best. Politics is about making us think we have some degree of control. We have none. The system is in place to keep the institutions of power in power, even if they must trade off power occasionally just to make us feel we have some control.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q (going to 1 million views)

[Stinky The Clown]

38. McCain IS that stupid. His handlers, however, know just what they were doing

McCain was set up.

[Lesleymo]

39. Yup. I've thought this from the start, too.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

"You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
HL Mencken

[lame54]

40. No -He's that stupid