Airline CEO - "Let's take out the 2nd pilot" Train flight attendant to land plane

[Liberal_in_LA]

(CNN) -- He's already suggested installing coin-operated lavatories and selling standing room on flights, so it may not be surprising that the latest idea from the colorful CEO of Ryanair is once again pushing air travelers' buttons.

It's not necessary to have two pilots on every flight, Michael O'Leary said in a recent interview.

"Let's take out the second pilot. Let the bloody computer fly it," O'Leary told Bloomberg Businessweek, adding that a flight attendant on each flight could be trained to help land a plane if something goes wrong.

"If the pilot has an emergency, he rings the bell, he calls her in," O'Leary told the magazine. "She could take over."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/09/06/ryanair.ceo.comments/index.html?iref=NS1

comment following article
LouisSilex Heck, why not have the clients bring their own seats ? Maybe the crew could bring the wings... And those pilots, why don't they pay for the gas? They have all the fun driving those planes don't they?

[dkf]

1. Omg. Ryanair huh? Guess I know what airline to avoid.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. lol! My thought exactly!

:rofl:

[Catshrink]

2. Remind me not to fly that airline!

Will they be adjusting the flight attendant's salary to compensate for the increased responsibility?

:wtf: and :wow:

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. agreed. Landing the plane is the hard part. The flight attendant who is

trained to land plane needs a major bump in pay. In fact, wouldn't that flight attendant really be a pilot at that point?

[Capitalocracy]

10. They're more likely to make them pay for the training. nt

[Matariki]

19. In his mind flight attendants are female, pilots are male.

So, to answer your question: no.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Technically, this makes sense

Pilots let the things fly themselves anyway.

But psychologically - I don't think this will fly (pun intended)

[Diclotican]

16. MannyGoldstein

MannyGoldstein

That is not correct assumtion.. Even tho a modern airplane are using a large degree of computers to fly, the fact is that a modern aircraft, would not even get off the ground, if it was not for the prepartions before the flight, and under the flight its a need for a two manned cocpit as the PIC in comand, usaly dosen't work the radios who also is important.. And under takeoff and landing both pilotes have their share of workload cut out for them... It is not that easy to land a big plane, or a small plane even when you have been doing it many times

Diclotican

[Frank Cannon]

23. The "Hudson River Landing" we all remember well...

simply could not have happened without a well-trained flight crew and a highly experienced and level-headed pilot and co-pilot.

This is typical corporate cost-cutting, profit-boosting insanity.

[Diclotican]

30. Frank Cannon

Frank Cannon

Absolutely, a computizered airplane, would never be able to do that ditching, withouth at least 90% fatalises onboard.. A computer, regardness how "smart" they are, are no match for the abilities that an human can do in the same situation..

At least, the modern use of computer in aircraft, can help pilotes when they are in troubles, but a airplane who is fully automated are not a aircraft I am willing to sit on, not even if the aircraft have been operated for many years withouth even a dent...

A computer, even the largerst one, is no near the abilities that an human have, and it wil take a least 50-100 year before we have computers who can compete with a higly experienced pilot... Even tho computers can WORK faster than we do today, they have not the abilites that we have, and would not have it as long as we live...

Computers have their place in modern life, but not at the helm, withouth supervision from pilotes of a aircraft..

Its insanity, and I would belive that, it is not able to be used anytime near in future either.. And if Ryanair want to try it out, and it failes. Then Ryanair wil be dead before the aircraft have crashed..

Diclotican

[MajorChode]

53. Actually it's just a publicity stunt

The CEO in question is known for them.

[Frank Cannon]

79. It's almost impossible to tell anymore.

Isn't that sad?

[MajorChode]

81. It's just the way of things these days

Substance doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how you're promoted. That's why Palin, Brewer, Bachmann, etc. can get votes despite being intellectually bankrupt.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

68. Or the Sioux City Flight 232 crash (loss of flight controls due to catastrophic engine failure) .

The one where it took the flight crew AND an extra pilot, who happened to be a passenger that day, to get the plane SOMEWHAT landed on the runway and save most of the passengers. Without the decades of experience and teamwork of the flight crew, that flight would have ended as a smoldering hole in the ground with NO survivors.

[Hannah Bell]

71. +100. insanity.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. That's what I was told by an L1011 flight crew

Pilot was a friend's dad, and we were out tippling.

They told me they usually set the various coordinates pre-flight and let the plane fly itself. Perhaps they were overstating the case.

[Diclotican]

35. MannyGoldstein

MannyGoldstein

I think they might have overstating the case... Even tho aircrafts like L1011 aircraft indeed can fly most of the way itself, they have to have a human imput on many points under the flight.. And l011 is an OLD aircraft compared to the modern aircraft that exist today.. Im not sure L1011 even have a modern FMC, or they are still using INS to program their aircraft... They might have refittet some of the L-1011 with a modern FMC, but Im not sure about the rest - is it a Locheed L1011-500 your dads friend is flying, they might have refitet a FMC into the guidance system, and therefore have a easy trip compared to the old INS system who was standard on most aircraft build before 1975-1980... At least I know most B737 have a FMC from 1980... And I belive most modern aircraft, have a sort of FMC in their program route.. Who is more advanced than the old INS system...

And the L1011 is a tree man cocpit, modern aircraft have to day just 2 man in cocpit, as the navigator is not used anymore... But I would doubt that a one man cocpit wil be the norm, in many decades to came... The tecnology have to mature a lot before one man/woman can fly a big aircraft halft the planet and land safe... Maybe when our kids are grown up and have their own kids, then "might" the tecnology is able to cope with the workload - and have the safty in mind.. But not before that... And I really doubt we wil se a One man cocpit in our lifetime... It is just not safe..

Diclotican

[MajorChode]

57. That's pretty much how it works

Almost all modern transport category aircraft have autopilots that fully automate the landing, meaning when the pilot engages the sequence he never has to touch any of the controls until it comes time to taxi the plane to the gate.

The aircrew simply has to tell the box whenever there are changes to altitude or airspeed. The next generation systems will get even more automated. Soon flights will follow a pre-set sequence from start to finish and the aircraft will even talk to each other to tell them to speed up or slow down to maintain spacing. The pilot will eventually just be a spectator who is there if something goes wrong.

[neverforget]

37. The computer can't talk to ATC for landing clearances, avoid weather or other aircraft,

taxi instructions, or take off and land. Plus when something goes wrong mechanically or the computer crashes, you want a pilot there to fly it.

[CurtEastPoint]

6. I'm picturing from the 'Airplane' movie the flight attendant 'inflating' the auto pilot.

Anyone else remember that? He inflated with a big grin on his face? That movie was SO silly but I LMAO.

[Politicalboi]

14. Who can forget Otto

LOL! Just blow him up, and he's ready to go.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4-1J9sBDcYY/RlPVFSIkhPI/AAAAAAAAABc/-AzMu_pDft0/s320/Airplane+the+Movie%27s+Otto.jpg

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. Actually, the grin wasn't on its face ALL the time.

If you know what I mean.

[rocktivity]

7. Rocktivity: Let's take out the airline CEOs

How essential are they, really? And not only could the co-pilots keep their jobs, all the employees could get a raise.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Uben]

8. Make co-pilots do flight attendant work!

Then, if needed, they can go land the damned plane, and we can pay them less so they can qualify for federal assistance! What an idea! I bet all the pilots would be hankering for one of those jobs!





/sarcasm

[ManiacJoe]

9. Whatever O'Leary is smoking,

I wish he would share.
:smoke:

[hedgehog]

11. aaaand once again, Michael O'Leary scores some free ppublicity for Ryanair....

[cordelia]

32. Exactly n/t

[pink-o]

12. I have worked for the airlines (as ground staff) for 22 years...

and we used to make jokes about pay toilets and straps to hang onto while you stand. Things Ryanair would like to see become a reality.

One thing Ryanair does is charge you for printing a boarding pass. If you come to the airport and haven't printed it online it's like 3 Euro or something if you want the ground staff to print it. I swear, I would wear a bag of shame over my head if I worked for them!!!

No wonder everyone hates flying so much.

[RamboLiberal]

13. Guess he thinks this never happens

Thursday, June 18, 2009

he captain of a Continental Airlines flight en route from Brussels to Newark died during the trip, but the flight landed safely with two co-pilots at the controls.

A doctor who examined the pilot said he likely died of a heart attack.

Dr. Julien Struyven, a cardiologist, said he responded Thursday to an announcement made on board Continental Flight 61 asking for doctors.

He examined the captain, who was already dead, and concluded that heart failure likely killed him. Struyven said there was "no chance at all" of saving the pilot, though he did use a defibrillator to try to resuscitate him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,527076,00.html

Imagine no other pilot on this flight except the FA.

10:11 AM CDT on Friday, June 18, 2010
Jon Hilkevitch, Chicago Tribune
CHICAGO – Patti DeLuna hadn't piloted a plane in about 20 years.

Back then, it was a small Cessna. On Monday, she quickly stepped up to a Boeing 767 airliner.

DeLuna, 61, an American Airlines flight attendant, helped her captain land the jumbo jet at O'Hare International Airport after the flight's first officer fell ill with stomach flu.

"I was the best available (back up pilot) they had on the plane," DeLuna said Tuesday from her California home. "I spent a lot of time in the cockpit looking at the flight deck panel and asking questions. My first question to the captain was, 'Where are the brakes?' "

-----

The captain assigned DeLuna to change the altimeter settings a few times because the altimeter gauge, which measures the airplane's altitude, was on the right side of the flight deck panel, she said. She also familiarized herself with the cockpit's public-address system.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nationworld/stories/DN-pilot_18nat.ART.State.Edition1.419bd9c.html

Even with computerized cockpit there is a need for 2 qualified pilots to be up on the flight deck.

[IDemo]

15. He DOES realize this guy is a fictitious character, right? ->

[Xithras]

17. You know, I usually have no problem with RyanAir's cuts.

There's nothing wrong, in my book, with running a cheap, no-frills airline.

But when those cuts start eating away at basic safety and operations, I have to draw the line. If they do this, I'll never fly them again. If something goes wrong with the pilot, I don't want a fugging stewardess landing the plane!

[Lyric]

18. In other words, train flight attendants as pilots

but don't PAY them like pilots. Kinda like how some big companies train cashiers to function as managers, but refuse to give them the title, pay, and benefits of a manager.

Oldest strategy in the book.

[xultar]

21. +1`

[gmoney]

25. from what I hear, pilots and flight attendants get paid next to nothing

Like, WalMart wages... many of them have to hold second jobs and/or go on food stamps to make ends meet.

Personally, I like my pilots well-paid, experienced, and with at least one back-up, just in case. Not every flight will have a Ted Stryker.

[walldude]

33. Flight attendants don't make squat.. pilots however

aren't doing too badly... Most are paid well over $100 an hour, depending on the type of plane, some are closer to 200 an hour...

You can see rates for different airlines here:

http://www.willflyforfood.com/airline-pilot-salary/

[strategery blunder]

51. You do realize they don't always get paid for a lot of those hours, right?

There are FAA regs that severely restrict how much pilots can work (and these regs are needed so that pilots aren't fatigued). Pilots can't just work gobs of overtime like some other workers can.

Now, take the fact that pilots can only be on duty for so long, and subtract from that what they DON'T always get paid for...

Anything before the aircraft pushes back (which means bad weather REALLY affects their pay!)

Sitting on the tarmac in ATC delays

Anything after the aircraft arrives (i.e. they don't get paid for any administrative shite they have to deal with)

All that time they spend in airports...waiting

By the time all that stuff is taken out, the pilot might not have enough hours on his paycheck to NOT qualify for food stamps...even at $100/hour.

The mainline carriers pay enough that this isn't a problem, but regional carriers (basically, anything that flies smaller than a B737/A320 family aircraft) are NOTORIOUS for this stuff.

[woo me with science]

29. +1 nt

[Dark]

82. Eh, like pilots make that much. What is it, like a third are on food stamps? Probably more.

They're trying to get blood from turnips.

[hobbit709]

22. Me to CEO "Take up skydiving without the parachute"

[Mendocino]

24. "Pilot has heart attack,

dog lands plane" read the World Weekly News a few years back. Now absurdity could be the new reality.:)

[Vickers]

26. I know this guy is spouting nonsense to get some free publicity, but I just

want to point out that programming the flight director is almost as hard as flying the damned things.

[Initech]

27. Passengers to Ryanair: Go fuck yourself.

This is the same airline that wants to start charging people to use the on-board toilet. Fuck them.

[Hawkeye-X]

28. That is exactly the reason why Ryanair is on a permanent shitlist from us

And I just recently that VivaAeroBus (A no-frills airlines in Mexico) is also owned by RyanAir.

Right now, O'Leary needs to go fix 99% of his planes. I'm quite tired of seeing RyanAir on the incident lists.

[Brickbat]

34. Railroads try to do this all the time with one-person crews both in yards and on the road. There is

no federal prohibition against one-person crews, and the BLET and UTU bargain two-person crews.

[mysuzuki2]

36. I do not think I want to fly on that airline.

[Phil The Cat]

38. Keep the Co-Pilot

AND train the attendents! AND pay them a bonus when they qualify!

The more qualified people on board who can bring the bird safely down, the better!

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. On a very serious note we are getting to the point

that 99% of flights could be handled by a damn computer.

But this guy is just saying what I am sure his friends in the industry are thinking.

[Frank Cannon]

40. Even if pilots are just up there to handle landings and/or emergencies...

I'd still say that's pretty goddamn important.

[Confusious]

46. Nowhere near that

A computer can keep a plane flying straight and level, which you could also do with a few rubber bands, but they couldn't take off nor land the plane.

And/ or if something went wrong in flight, loss of an engine, etc, one little variable unaccounted for, well, kiss your behind goodbye.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

69. Civilian transports have been using "Autoland" for some time now.

Not all, but some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland

In aviation, autoland describes a system that fully automates the landing phase of an aircraft's flight, with the human crew merely supervising the process.

[Confusious]

73. Interesting

I still think though, that if there was an emergency, and the plane wasn't in perfect flying condition, many computers wouldn't be able to deal with it.

Based on my experience of working with computers for 15+years and watching computer development.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

75. Oh I agree and I've been a private pilot for 20 years.

Someone up-thread pointed out the Hudson River water landing and I mentioned the United 232 crash.

Also, the wikepedia link has an paragraph about a known crash caused by an auto-land hiccup.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

76. dupe delete

[Hassin Bin Sober]

70. Yeah, but that 1% is a real bitch.

[JohnyCanuck]

41. Come on now landing a passenger jet can't be that hard to learn

After all, Hani Hanjour, the hijacker that we are told flew AA Flt 77 into the Pentagon was considered a failure by his flight school instructors because he had difficulty maintaining control of puddle-jumper, single engine, light aircraft, and when he attempted to rent a small aircraft from an aircraft rental outfit he failed (badly) their pre-rental flight test. Yet, in spite of this, he was still able to navigate a 757 a few hundred miles and complete a difficult high speed, 320 degree, diving turn at around 400mph (almost 4 X the cruising speed of your average Cessna 172) to end up still in control and skimming the Pentagon lawn at approx. 1ft above ground level before slamming into the side of the Pentagon. With this in mind, it should be a piece of cake to teach a flight attendant how to land the thing.

[Nailzberg]

43. Shhh. That kinda fact will get this moved to the Sept. 11 forum.

[jobycom]

44. OFFS. He failed in 96, went back, and eventually earned a commercial pilot's license

earning a "satisfactory" rating. Why does that seem odd or unbelievable to you?

[JohnyCanuck]

60. And even after getting his "commmercial" licencse,

flight instructors or flight school managers from the flight schools where he would occasionally put in intermittent appearances to supposedly try to upgrade his skills attempted to warn the FAA that he did not exhibit the English language proficiency or piloting skills necessary for someone to hold a FAA commercial pilots license, and in Aug 2001, he still failed check rides necessary for him to rent a small, single engine, Cessna for a solo flight because of http://www.gazette.net/200138/greenbelt/news/72196-1.html">his poor flying skills according to the two flight instructors assigned to check him out.

[jobycom]

66. And yet, he had a commercial pilots license and passed the test with a satisfactory rating.

:shrug: So he could fly the plane, even if his instructors thought his English was too bad. You're really rewriting some serious facts for that claim. Honestly, even if I had any inkling that there was some type of inside job or remote controlled stuff involved here, your twisting and cherry-picking details would weaken that inkling.

[truth2power]

62. Thank you, JohnyCanuck. I was wondering when that little inconvenient fact

was going to show up. Amazing how many anonymous individuals are invested in the scenario you describe. I wonder why?

[jobycom]

67. More like convenient lie. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Not sure why those planes need all those engines, either.

Most of 'em could do just fine missing one, right?

[Confusious]

49. Backup

A loss of one engine usually isn't critical in some cases, but a second loss will be catastrophic.

Also depends how loaded a plane is. A fully loaded 747 needs all of it's engines to get off the ground.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. I was being facetious.

:hi:

[Confusious]

77. Oh, ok

Just trying to be helpful. :)

[MajorChode]

54. Mine only has one

Thousands of box hauler aircraft take to the skies every night with only one engine.

[Regret My New Name]

59. Better yet, does it really need two wings?

That just seems wasteful.

[Incitatus]

45. I wonder how long before they try to stuff passengers in the luggage hold under the planes. nt

[texanwitch]

48. Maybe the babies and little kids.

Nothing would surprise me about the airlanes.

[Darth_Kitten]

64. Hey, just toss in a few bottles of water and those wheat snax....

and who's complaining? :D

[Daphne08]

47. What an idiotic idea!

:crazy:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

50. I absolutely refuse to fly Ryanair

They're the one that started the charging of extra luggage. I don't know why airlines continue to use abhorrent practices, it's most certainly not good for business!

I don't fly Ryanair but I do fly BMI Baby and Flybe, and all of them are as bad as each other. Flybe advertised a ticket from Birmingham to Belfast City at £80, reasonable price. I get to the checkout, it's jumped up to £150. They preemptively charged for luggage, insurance, picking seats, etc etc. I finally shoved it back down to £110. False advertising at its best.

I used to love flying. I loved the little presents they gave us on the airlines for the long distance flights.

[autorank]

52. These are truly the end times n/t k*r

[unblock]

55. why stop there? why not require one of the passengers to fly it?

you could give that passenger half-fare for piloting!
everybody wins!

and hey, while passengers are waiting for their oft-delayed flight, they can go up to the tower and help control traffic!

:sarcasm:

[Morning Dew]

61. I was going in that direction

except I'd have the passenger pay extra for flight training.

[Frank Cannon]

80. They could tell the passengers in the front row that they will be landing the plane...

in an emergency and to read and follow the instructions printed on a card. Kind of like what they do currently with people sitting in exit rows.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. Okay, I figured it out.

We have been promoting psychopaths into the CEO positions. That's why everything is an accident waiting to happen.

[Vinca]

58. I just added Ryanair to my "Do Not Fly" list.

[Darth_Kitten]

63. Standing room? Oh, I would love to sit down and have some guy's....

crotch facing me for a 7 hour flight. Oh, yes, that would be just like taking the bus....only much longer, of course.

Hang on tight, here's turbulence? And get out of the way of the snack tray, bud......

[Evasporque]

65. Brilliant....also drop liability insurance. Too expensive...nt

[mwooldri]

72. Ryanair is to the airline business as Walmart is to the retail business.

Always trying to drive down the prices and treating the employees in a not-so-nice way.

At least Ryanair is upfront about it and doesn't try to hide it. You know way in advance that although you may have purchased a plane ticket for 5 Euro, the extra fees make that ticket more like 100 Euro. Fly the legacy airlines and you get charged upfront the cost and for the other services, even if you don't use them. IMO Ryanair is good as a paygo airline - just travelling yourself and a small carry on, pay by debit card and print out boarding passes at home and bring your own snacks... you pay for what you need. If you want business class... go ahead and pay for it.

[L0oniX]

78. Someone's been watching too many air catastrophe movies.

...and ...the flight attendant is a she? WTF what an asscarrot. The flight attendant is a person!