Things I hate to hear others say, and why

[The Straight Story]

1. "Get over it, move on."
I heard this for years when I lost my kids, when my mom died, and so on. These same people I knew in my life, still to this day, will bring up things from the past about people who wronged them (even things from 30-50 years ago) and how it has impacted them (often brought up in a way like 'well, one time X did something that sucked' and they still let that affect them).
Day in and out I did not know if my kids were alive or dead. Then when my mom died it was a major hit to me, followed by X dying and finding my kids and learning what they went through. My X in-laws and others were constantly telling me to 'man up' (and they are dems) and just 'get over it' - all the while they and others were constantly bringing up the past of others and how it pissed them off still (so and so borrowed money, was not grateful enough, while living with them their dogs ate the wall, etc and so on).
You wanted me and others to get over things but you go and do the same thing you tell us it is wrong to do. How does that work?

2. "I bet X lives in their moms' basement"
If that is the only argument you have then you lost right there. If you cannot argue the points and values and resort to such a phrase you are simply saying "I am coward and have no other response but to demean someone".
Back in the day, people, from the Indians to John Boy (The Walton's), lived with family and took care of one another. If you really think that someone who chooses to live at home and care for their elders cannot have an intelligent voice in an argument because of that then you fail. Maybe X should get a McMansion and leave their parents to rot, would that make what they are saying more relevant to you and others?
I could move out and get a place, as I have for the last 27 years - I could abandon my dad and my other family members and use up more resources - maybe then what I would say would mean something and be taken on it's own merits.

3. "You only care about Y because you do it"
You only care about abortion because you can have one. You only care about drinking and don't like prohibition because you drink.
Like that has anything at all to do with core values. I smoke. I don't generally go to bars, I could even name all the few bars I have been to in my life. I have better things to do than to go to a bar, drink, smoke, and try to drive home. But I am still on the side of the basic principle "Your body, your choice" when it comes to such things. I drink/smoke at home. Could care less what you do on your time. Supermarkets/Hospitals/places people have to go to survive and such? Ok - regulate that - but you don't have to go to a bar. Your body, your choice of where to go to smoke.
Just because I do something does not make my thoughts on it invalid out of the gate. I have some core principles.

4. "Negative information about one group is ok, about other groups it is hate speech"
"Did you see that recent news story about Iran/Cuba/Venezuela? It was designed to foster hate against them." Yet when you have someone who does not like Catholics (and I am no fan of Catholics) post a negative story about them (or a snide remark about molestation) it is seen as just posting the facts. Of the over one billion Christians in this world there are some who are total jerks and I cannot stand, and some who I think are on a power trip and would use power to do more harm than good - but most are sincerely trying to help others. Most Muslims and Jews are too. The Old Testament stuff about stoning, about gays and such - well that applies more to Jews and Muslims than Christians.
If I posted a ton of threads about Jews and Muslims and Iran and how they and their beliefs were contrary to progressive beliefs how would that be seen?
I get that some fundies in this country are batshit crazy, and I oppose them and always will. Me speaking out against them is not hate - anymore than someone else speaking out against other faiths is not hate.

5. "If you are complaining about Obama you are giving the RW ammo/etc"
I don't judge Obama as much by what he has not done, but by what he has done and how he has done it. Tell me who here would not have put an end to DADT on an executive side had they been elected President? Yes, I prefer Obama, but I sure as hell won't give him a pass on things anymore than I would anyone else we elected.
In defense of Obama - he has 24 hours a day to deal with issues. If he sleeps 8 hours a day that leaves 16 hours a day - then divide that up between all the departments (Indian affairs, forest service, EPA, etc and so on). Add to that he is not a king, he is a President and has to work with others to get things accomplished and it gets complicated real quick.
Obama can do better - and we can be more patient and realize that there are many things on his plate. I don't know the solution, I think though we (and especially myself) can do more to help out. On the same token, as Jesus once said, Judge others as you wish to be judged. How we judge other admins we should do the same now.

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I am just as guilty of the above. Shame on me when I am. If you want to argue a point with someone, argue the point. Calling someone names is not an argument. Question yourself and your own motives. If you want the truth, look for it no matter what others may say.

[Taitertots]

1. 6. Tax cuts help the economy

This is based on the foolish belief that government spending doesn't depend on taxation. The production losses are greater from decreasing government spending than the gains from individual consumption.

[lpbk2713]

2. "I voted for the lesser of two evils."

That usually tells me the speaker is willfully ignorant or too lazy to do any independent research.

[readmoreoften]

5. Nice stealth ad hominem.

"If anyone opposes my candidate they are willfully ignorant or lazy."

Thanks for adding vapid personal attacks to a thread intended to challenge them.

[donheld]

6. Or maybe they've done ample independent research

and that's why they believe that.

[dimbear]

10. That suggests to me the speaker is enlightened.

In general, that is what democracy requires you to do. You should do it as your patiotic duty. You will only very rarely actually be given the chance to vote for a 'good' person, because they don't and can't survive long in politics.

See the relevant episode of South Park, which is spot on.

[readmoreoften]

3. Another words, you hate logical fallacies.

Me too.

[The Straight Story]

7. I hate attacks, including when I do so, that do not address the real issues involved

I welcome when people call me on them, because it helps me to learn more about why I feel as I do about something.

Disagreeing with me is fine and I look forward to the challenge (as I do a good game of chess) but doing so for reasons that are 'out there' just make me shake my head and wonder what the hell someone is thinking.

I am currently engaged on a thread with someone I respect a lot and we are not really agreeing on some things - but we are both civil and trying to understand the positions we both hold. Without resorting to name calling or labels. I have learned a lot there, things I did not know before, and I am really glad I was able to speak openly with him without it devolving into one of the above mentioned categories.

I want to have intelligent conversation and debate, to learn and grow. Sometimes I am wrong, and sometimes I am one of those very same people I am lashing out against. My hope is that we can all have civil disagreements and learn from them - because I think in the end we all want the same things.

[RKP5637]

4. Excellent post IMO. n/t

[Vickers]

8. Dude, admit it...you typed this in your parents' basement in your underwear.

:P

[Chulanowa]

9. To answer your question...

"If I posted a ton of threads about Jews and Muslims and Iran and how they and their beliefs were contrary to progressive beliefs how would that be seen?"

Posting this about Muslims and Iran will get you a fast track to the top tiers of the "Greatest" page. Posting it about Jews will either get your post moved to I/P (where it will be deleted) or it will get you tombstoned.

Some people are more protected on DU than others; if you talk shit about Muslims, Arabs, Mexicans, men, Catholics (As you noted), Mormons, Roma, native americans, communists, or the overweight, then you get to go to the Greatest page. Anything else is scrubbed.

[madinmaryland]

11. How does this affect people who post in their bedrooms about breastfeeding

and smoking in front of screaming children at the Olive Garden.

:shrug:

[Qutzupalotl]

12. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

About the mom's basement thing: it's derisive, but only aimed at the stereotype of the dungeon master who can't cope with the real world. Someone dealing with a family tragedy or illness IS coping with the real world. So they're not talking about you, unless they're utterly clueless.

I disagree that we're not giving the RW ammo. We are, but it's not like they wouldn't think of these things themselves. However, the only ammo they can use publicly is what would resonate with their base. Splitting our base would be redundant; we do a fine job of dividing us on our own.

[bobbolink]

13. "Get over it, move on." Its called REPRESSION, and that is what this society excells in.

It isn't a right-wing thing or a left-wing thing..... it is the USian society.

It is very destructive, and has done as much as anything else to wreck our culture.

Thanks to the Calvinists, we are emotionp-phobic, and project that onto anyone who does anything other than smile. By telling you not to feel anything about what happened to you, they are telling you to become hard, insensitive, and uncaring. Then we wonder why this society is so hard-hearted and lacking in compassion!

When my son was kidnapped, I was told by a couple of people, "What kind of mother are you to let such a thing happen?" It is a way to distance themselves, just like DUers do here everyday in judging poor people and their diets, etc. Judgment. It is ugly, it is damaging, and it is killing us as a people. No wonder so many subsist on anti-depressants!

By allowing them to divide us in this way, they have succeeded in making us focus on what we can buy to momentarily feel better. Its a win for them.

The problem is, hardly anyone sees this as the problem it is. To overcome the power of the corporations, we are going to have to have communities. To have communities, we are going to have to strengthen and support each other for the long haul, with all the catastrophies that involves. To strenghten each other, we have to be aware of and honor our own emotions, so we can do the same for others.

In short... we have to learn to LISTEN..... to ourselves, and to each other.

REpression is death, and the way the corporations want us to behave.

I could recommmend a book I think is excellent for learing to listen to each other, and I will if you want.

However, its my experience that all "progressives", such as the people you list, think they already know how to listen, and besides, its just not that important. So, they continue to harm themselves and each other.

Interested in the book, or do you already know how to listen?

[AngryAmish]

14. I think you need to get over it.

Wait...