Burning the Koran... and what happens beyond the US

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yes, these idiots could and can do this under US Law at present... whoopy do. This is like yelling fire in a crowded theater. No, the riots will not happen here... so try to look beyond your borders

Riots over US Koran 'desecration'

Protests in Jalalabad turned violent
At least four people have died and many were hurt after police fired shots to disperse anti-US protests in the Afghan city of Jalalabad, officials say.
Hundreds rioted over reports that interrogators at America's Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed at least one copy of the Koran down a toilet.

The city is now said to be calm after widespread damage to property. All but essential UN staff are being withdrawn.

US authorities have said they are investigating the Koran allegations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4535491.stm

Oh and yes, we are free to do this... whoopy do... this is also giving the Taliban (just like the Mosque in NYC) a hell of a victory lap in the propaganda department.

So yes, under US law they can... those who are saying they can... who is volunteering to go to the house of any American, in uniform or out, it could easily be a tourist... to tell them, I am sorry your relative died at (insert here) because some folks are idiots!

There are days I think our provincialism and inability to think OUTSIDE our borders are one of our greatest enemies actually. Oh and if anybody wants to burn ANY religious book... people should be able to think through potential consequence and realize that ABROAD people will not make a distinction between the tribal elders and the tribe... (Yes that if Afghanistan, many regions in the Arab World and yes Pakistan too)

[RKP5637]

1. To me, freedom implies some level of responsibility for ones actions. These idiots

make a mockery of freedom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Exactly, you are free, but you need to be responsible

and that is what people are missing. People are going to die. No, not a threat, they will. Just not in the US.

[Dappleganger]

15. Exactly.

But people are far more concerned abut their 15 minutes of fame than another dead soldier or peace worker.

[True Earthling]

41. They know what the reaction will be...

They want to kick the hornets nest and then say... "see! they are violent religion!"

The fanatics will riot and maybe some troops will die... so what is accomplished? What is known that we didn't know before? Was it worth it in the end? - No.

This doesn't help Islam, Christianity or the United States. It's lose lose all the way around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. 'xept for the end of the world fanatics

on all faiths, who are desperate to start Armageddon. That is why they are doing it, quite frankly.

Oh and welcome to DU.

:hi:

It will make travel by Americans abroad, and not just in the Arab world, uncomfortable.

[RKP5637]

43. Excellent points! Also, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Brickbat]

2. People are free to not riot when a book is burned

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. You don't get it

and this is part of our provincialism. You are looking at this from the POV of 21st century American (Western Values). Both the people burning them and the people in many points of the Arab world, and the developing world, are stuck in a 12th century mentality. When you burn a religious book in that mentality... it is a personal attack against your god. It is YOUR duty to defend your god.

Both the church and these people are tuck in a tribalistic way of thinking. It is another type of provincialism.

And if you do not get this, people will die, I cannot help it.

[Morning Dew]

5. A 12th century mentality is the standard we should all follow?

Or someone will die.

Got it.

Do they sell burqas online? Can I get a Burqini?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. In international relations

the culture you are dealing with, and her values, are part of the calculus. No wonder Americans are so ugly when they travel abroad...

[Morning Dew]

26. This seems to be a domestic book burning.

It would be nice if these folks went overseas to have their Koran barbecue.

Since they aren't, I guess the enraged foreigners will just have to realize that the culture they are dealing with and her values are part of the calculus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. It is ALREADY having effects abroad

but that's ok... let them burn it. Hell for all I care, add a few bibles to the roast... a flag... let's go all the way...

And sadly you do not understand the kinds of consequences it is ALREADY having. And that is MY POINT... have a good day... and try to look down this thread where another DU'er is telling you about the UAE.

[Brickbat]

6. I do get it, actually.

If they want to riot, they'll riot. I doubt that rioting is an expression of defending God.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. To them it is

but go on.

[Dappleganger]

17. Oh it is.

[dkf]

7. Agree. Nothing is done in a vacuum.

[dkf]

8. Agree. Nothing is done in a vacuum.

One must understand the implications or you could start something very bad.

[ZombieHorde]

49. Do you think the 12th century mentality people have free will?

Do you think Islam is something they chose, or is being a Muslim something beyond their control? Does religious salvation require free will?

[firehorse]

11. Osama bin laden wins again

Score: Osama bin Laden 7 - U.S. 0

This idiot book burner tool, plays right into the hands of bin Laden. We lose once again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

You get it

and this is a relatively minor victory. The USPA is a far greater one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You get it

and this is a relatively minor victory. The USPA is a far greater one.

[NoNothing]

13. Please STOP using the "fire in a theater" analogy

Here's why:

That analogy has a specific meaning in U.S. First Amendment case law. It is a prototypical example of the kind of speech that actually can be banned without violating the First Amendment. So, to people familiar with civil liberties, saying some speech is "like yelling fire in a theater" means you are saying it should not be protected by the First Amendment. If I understand you correctly, though, you do not dispute that this speech is actually protected by the First Amendment. So your argument is contradictory, unless you really arguing that this speech *should* be banned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Whatever,

once people are killed you may get the analogy. ESPECIALLY if those killed are IN THE US. I mean outside, nothing I can do... most Americans don't care for what happens outside our borders.

Perhaps then you will get it WHY they are actually parallel... and YES I KNOW the case law.

Parochial thinking and not being able to think outside the box I see.

Oh and attacks on any religion of this kind... perhaps it will end in front of a court... or perhaps not...

[woo me with science]

32. +1 nt

[JCMach1]

14. Yeah, crap like this makes me nervous here in the UAE!

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Hell I will be traveling very much AWAY from the Arab and Muslim

world, and it makes me nervous as hell.

You take care and keep a very low profile. You know the drill. Most folks round these parts don't get it.

[Lyric]

18. I think they're doing it on purpose to try and provoke a violent response.

Or even just an equivalent response--for example, a group of Arab Muslims burning a pile of Christian Bibles as retaliation. Imagine what the Republican Party would do with the photos of Muslims burning Bibles. Hateful campaign ads would only be the beginning.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. For all I care we can burn all and any religious

books from all seven world traditions... but it is exactly what this is meant to do.

This end of the world 'xtioans are not different from the end of the world Muslims... or Jews, or insert tradition here. Some people are in a twitter about getting that clash of civilizations that really does not exist, well ongoing.

I agree with you by the way... and if they manage to get a few terror attacks, even better... a large one will get us to go nuts!

[Old Troop]

19. What if a church member stops to read it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. They might find it is not that scary

<--------------- read it after 9.11... and just like the Old Testament it has some sections that I went oh my... others that are just lyrical in nature.

But I doubt these people would be open enough to notice that...

Hell, they may even realize that Jesus Christ is one of the major prophets of Islam... the other is Moses.

[Lyric]

25. That would be a great, tolerant response to the burning. Organize a large group of volunteers

to stand nearby and READ the Quran while the nutjobs are burning it. Even if you think it's just a book, it's still a valuable cultural artifact and thus no worse a read than any other religiously-inspired text. Best of all--the readers would have a really good chance of stealing the media thunder that the church is trying to create.

[tritsofme]

23. Seems analogous to the Park51 affair.

Despite the controversy, each party certainly has a legal and constitutional right to do as they wish in these matters, but perhaps cooler heads with prevail, and both will realize it may not be wise to follow through.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. There are significant differences

this WILL ignite riots and get people killed. Perhaps not in the US, but it will.

The Park 51 project is being led by Suffi's who are the peacenicks and most moderate of all Muslim branches. oh and the Park 51 project became a HOT potato once silly season started. I mean even Lauran Ingraham applauded it LAST YEAR. This burning is meant to get a response, a violent response.

[tritsofme]

28. I understand your point. It is a shame that there are people in the world so childish

that burning a book is a call to arms. I do hope the pastor makes the right choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Well truth be told

both the preacher and these people are stuck in the 12th century.

[gort]

30. 30% chance of Thunderstorms forecast for Saturday in Gainesville

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Gainesville&state=FL&site=JAX&textField1=29.6742&textField2=-82.3363&e=0

I also heard some people were planning a counter protest by pelting the fire with water balloons but I only heard that on the radio and cant find a source for it.

I also heard that a white separatist hate group is planning to provide security for the event. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/25/right-wing-extreme-group/

I think for every Koran these idiots try to burn we should pledge to gift 10 new copies to a local mosque.

Just a thought.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Separatist white group is not doing it

and we already have had riots in kabul

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afghanistan/100907/quran-burning

As well as protests in Indonesia

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/us-quran-burning-sparks-i_n_705973.html

So this will probably happen... I give you a 100% it will happen, because it IS happening.

Though the idea to donate Korans is not a bad one.

[customerserviceguy]

33. How is Islam's possible violent reaction

to the burning of a Koran really any different from their reaction to a cartoonist's drawing of Mohammed? Why do we rightly condemn the latter, but 'understand' the former?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Don't matter what you think

or not... it will happen... mostly it is ALREADY happening.

[WinkyDink]

34. Why are these morons even being paid any attention?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Ask editors at news bureaus around the country

in particular the ones at FOX and points hither.

[RKP5637]

44. MSM ratings and profit. Only profit counts for MSM. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

35. First of all

I think the burning of the Koran is a moronic, unnecessarily inflammatory thing to do. I think the World Outreach Ministry of Doves (or whatever the stupid church calls itself) is so full of irredeemable bigots that they have no right calling themselves good Americans or Christians or human beings. They are vile.

Having said that, your opinion of the rest of the world is so low that you suppose that crazy pandemonium, rioting and wide-spread panic will be a result of these actions?


That is the most sad viewpoint in all of this to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. So this is not my opinion

we have had riots in Afghanistan OVER the rumor of this in 2005. We already had demonstrations THIS WEEK in Kabul. Oh and a massive demonstration in Indonesia (where I suspect people will mostly stay peaceful)

I guess facts are hard to argue. By the way... Afghanistan, a few tribal areas in Pakistan and a few tribal areas in the Arab World does NOT the world make. They share one thing with the Council of Doves, 12th century thinking.

Yes, some people WILL DIE. Why? People HAVE DIED in the past... is this past is prologue is hard to comprehend for people?

[Brooklyns_Finest]

39. Interesting

Seems like you are really scared of them Muslims overseas. I'm sorry, they might be loud, and while there are many more of them than us, I don't give a damn about Muslim sensibilities. If any act of violence occurs because of this, it has more to do with their inferior mindset than the "Christian" clowns who decided to burn the books in the first place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Nah if you think I believe the Taliban will get over here

with remote control planes, and blow something... you are not readying or trying to comprehend the OP.

But if I were a trooper on patrol oh on Kandahar Province, that just adds to the list of concerns.

But do carry on.

By the way, if you happen to be the Taliban... this is a cheap recruiting poster, hey at least it i made in the US of A... at least we still make SOMETHING.

[Hello_Kitty]

45. And what if they decide that our letting women walk around unveiled is an affront?

How far do we take this accommodation of the religious sensibilities of people in other countries?

[Kolesar]

46. The war in Iraq was the biggest Al Qaida recruiting drive, ever

"Pastor" Jones is up there, too

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Exactly

hell before the war there was no Al Qaida in Iraq... but you knew that.

:hi:

[TexasObserver]

48. Those who will riot need to learn that their expectations are merely theirs.

It makes no sense to calibrate our country so that it doesn't offend the most backward persons of some other country. They're free to have whatever rules they wish in their country about ownership and destruction of books, but they're not free to impose that point of view on us.

It's just a book, and no matter how offensive someone in the world may think it is, we should not change our approach to attempt to placate them. Anyone who can be offended by someone burning a book that belongs to the person burning the book should learn that their anger is their problem.

I suggest that those in Pakistan who want to get upset about something look all over their country and see the horrific repression their 7th century beliefs create. They treat their women like second class citizens and summarily execute homosexuals, among other oppressions.