Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

'Honor' Killing: The Crimewave that Shames the World

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 03:53 PM
Original message
'Honor' Killing: The Crimewave that Shames the World
'Honor' Killing: The Crimewave that Shames the World
It's one of the last great taboos: the murder of at least 20,000 women a year in the name of 'honor'. Nor is the problem confined to the Middle East: the contagion is spreading rapidly.

by Robert Fisk

It is a tragedy, a horror, a crime against humanity. The details of the murders - of the women beheaded, burned to death, stoned to death, stabbed, electrocuted, strangled and buried alive for the "honor" of their families - are as barbaric as they are shameful. Many women's groups in the Middle East and South-west Asia suspect the victims are at least four times the United Nations' latest world figure of around 5,000 deaths a year. Most of the victims are young, many are teenagers, slaughtered under a vile tradition that goes back hundreds of years but which now spans half the globe.

A 10-month investigation by The Independent in Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt, Gaza and the West Bank has unearthed terrifying details of murder most foul. Men are also killed for "honor" and, despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu communities have stooped to the same crimes. Indeed, the "honor" (or ird) of families, communities and tribes transcends religion and human mercy. But voluntary women's groups, human rights organizations, Amnesty International and news archives suggest that the slaughter of the innocent for "dishonoring" their families is increasing by the year.

Iraqi Kurds, Palestinians in Jordan, Pakistan and Turkey appear to be the worst offenders but media freedoms in these countries may over-compensate for the secrecy which surrounds "honor" killings in Egypt - which untruthfully claims there are none - and other Middle East nations in the Gulf and the Levant. But honor crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations. Security authorities and courts across much of the Middle East have connived in reducing or abrogating prison sentences for the family murder of women, often classifying them as suicides to prevent prosecutions.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html
--------------------

I don't want to post this on LBN because it will get mixed up with the bible burning crap.

I do want to post it though for women. It should not be over-looked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. We've always had it in the west.
We just call it 'domestic violence'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
left coaster Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's true..
Violence against women is a global epidemic.. and largely ignored, globally speaking.


Cue up tumbleweed roll on.. 3... 2... 1...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not even close
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Homicide is the second leading cause of death of pregnant women..
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/20316.php

And it's almost always a spouse or boyfriend that's the perpetrator..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Not for some notion of "honor". Not by fathers or brothers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Yes, it's always about 'honor'.
Not behaving according to male rules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
left coaster Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. It shouldn't be overlooked by ANYONE..
And I do thank you for posting, superconnected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. percentage breakdown by religion?
every instance cited in the article are crimes committed by muslim men against muslim women.

pointing out the exception, where 1/20000 crimes isn't committed by a muslim, helps to excuse islam of its responsibility to leave the dark ages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. From the arcile
"In Jordan, women's organisations say that per capita, the Christian minority in this country of just over five million people are involved in more "honour" killings than Muslims – often because Christian women want to marry Muslim men. But the Christian community is loath to discuss its crimes and the majority of known cases of murder are committed by Muslims. "

So it isn't quite as simple as Is;am being the cause of it. It's obviously a cultural thing as well.

But I agree with some of the other posters; why was, say, the murder of Nicole Brown SImpson not considered an "honour killing"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. husband versus father/brother
i'm not going for the cultural relativism angle, folks.

i missed that paragraph, but it is worth noting that it occurred in a majority muslim nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. 2nd paragraph in the OP....
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:15 PM by Turborama
A 10-month investigation by The Independent in Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt, Gaza and the West Bank has unearthed terrifying details of murder most foul.

Men are also killed for "honor" and, despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu communities have stooped to the same crimes. Indeed, the "honor" (or ird) of families, communities and tribes transcends religion and human mercy

. But voluntary women's groups, human rights organizations, Amnesty International and news archives suggest that the slaughter of the innocent for "dishonoring" their families is increasing by the year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yeah, those big bad Muslims must have talked them into it.
So if the husband does it, that's different?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, of course it's different when the whole family gets involved.
It takes on a new level of culturally sanctioned violence and oppression.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. And it *never* happens in the WEstern world?
All those old stories about shotgun weddings, etc, were just colourful fables?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You do known that expression doesn't mean "killing"?
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:11 PM by WinkyDink
Nobody is arguing there are no such murders in the West. Indeed, they are too well-known in Sicily, e.g.
The POINT is, however, that "honor killings" are ENDEMIC to, let's just say, large parts of the Third World.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Um, I imagine someone might get killed
if the wedding didn't go off as planned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Let's bring the 19th c. into the fray, now. Yes, hillbilly culture is the quintessential America.
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:13 PM by WinkyDink

BTW, the target of such was never the intended bride.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. SO if the guy got killed, no biggie?
And actually, judging by a lot of the actions these days, hillbillies are a pretty good representative of the American psyche.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. OFGS, stick to the topic: Women being murdered by kin.
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:30 PM by WinkyDink
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, it's terrible
But I'm not sure why you have to make it a favor of religion and not culture. There are plenty of Islamic communities where it does *not* happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. And 'our' world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes. Being killed by kin is WAY different in kind. If a woman is murdered by her child, is that not
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:07 PM by WinkyDink
a shock to the social fabric more than if she were slain by a stranger?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. DO you feel the same way
about the Hindu practise of putting women on their husband's funeral pyre?

My point is that to focus on the Islamic nature of the killings rather than their overall misogyny is short-sighted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Suttee has been mostly eradicated. I am FULLY aware of the heinous bride-murders-by-kerosene
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:30 PM by WinkyDink
in India, by husband and often mother-in-law.

What I am also aware of is how too many people will EXCUSE Islam by pointing to other, non-Islamic examples.

As a 60-year-old woman, I have lived a life conscious of misogyny. I am of the opinion that both the West and the Middle East are brothers under the skin, to wit: one area wants to control and degrade its females by encouraging a lack of clothing; the other by imposing excessive covering. Fundamentalists in both regions wish to deny women reproductive rights, the granting of which has been proven to advance human rights in general.
I am aware that the most dangerous place for an American woman is her work-place, because of being tracked down by a violent man.

I accept as truth what Gaven deBecker has written: Men go through life wishing not to be humiliated. Women go through life wishing not to be killed.

But one expects not to need such a wish when thinking of ONE'S BLOOD RELATIVES, A DISTINCTION YOU ARE OBSTINATELY REFUSING TO SEE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Lebanese "culture" is influenced by it's majority religion
Edited on Tue Sep-07-10 07:20 PM by maxsolomon
but have it your way - ultimately, there's no qualitative difference between the west, where distraught men kill their wives for leaving them, or cheating on them, and the Islamic world (of which lebanon is a part), where men kill their daughters and sisters for 'offenses' we find laughable.

are you saying we must eliminate spouse-killing in America before we can criticize this LARGELY islamic practice in islamic countries? or merely that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones? or that it's the not the monotheism, but the misogyny (that is an integral part of the religion)?





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wookie72 Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's the misogyny
Which is NOT an integral part of the religion. Misogyny exists in every culture, both secular and religious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Absolute agreement.
Doesn't matter what you call it, it all comes down to the same thing. Misogyny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gophates Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Gee and our media won't cover that Xians are as culpable
There with the honor killings and here with the domestic violence. But hey, let's just blame the different people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. put simply: Patriarchy
destroying the world on so may levels.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R Thank you for posting. Nice to see that honor killing amongst men is also included
in this article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. Racist post. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC