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"You Tax-hiking SOSHULISTS just want to punish SUCCESS!!"

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:34 AM
Original message
"You Tax-hiking SOSHULISTS just want to punish SUCCESS!!"
UH .. .



. . . oh yeah, and . . .



. . . during which those massive tax cuts led to this off-the-chain volcanic job growth . . .





. . . yyyyyeah, back to those rich peeps . . . wow, SUCH an oppressed minority in this country . . .





. . . we're simply NOT doing enough to please them, are we? Yeah. Then there are these gems . . .





. . . oh, and to add some more history, howzabout these . . .







:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: <<< See that, Teahadists?

Those are the world's most microscopic tears being shed for your precious, revered, ever-SO-punished wealthy.

Now . . . contestants . . . who wants to buy a "U"?



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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Success...

as defined by robbing workers of their labor.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him whose? - Don Marquis
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Love that quote!!
I saw an old friend this weekend. I love him like a brother, and I would give my life for his. Our bond is that tight.

However, he has become even more right wing crazy than what I remembered from years back. He's angry at the government, welfare recipients, the whole enchilada. It was frightening.

But then, the magic words came out that are so representative of every far-right winger I know. He has worked hard. No one helped him. He pulled himself by his bootstraps. He went back to when he was a young man, making minimum wage and eating Raman noodles. The same story I have heard countless times.

These folks should know that they received help along the way. It is a very, very rare occurrence that someone pulls himself by his bootstraps. With the exception of some people who lived and worked in the Depression (like my Grandpa, who really had nothing), I don't think I have ever met someone who truly did it on his or her own.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. Wow
91% under Eisenhower, thats alot for anyone, also lol at that wheel of fortune pic
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Someone unrec'd this? REALLY?
I dunno, what about it rings false? Broken record? Preaching to the choir? OWN up, what's wrong?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. K&R for Truth
Thank you for an outstanding resource, HughBeaumont.

Throw in the debt the middle class has accumulated in order to stay afloat during times of, eh, economic hardship and the USA has a pretty big hole to dig out of. Let's turn those who've prospered by the corruptions of government into ditch diggers.

PS: The R/U should be public info. The turds who support the greedy warmongers should be exposed and sent packing.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Some people love them some capitalism.

They can rub two nickels together and think they're akin to the Rockefellers or something. Pretty fuckin' pathetic, the rich will grind the petit bourgeois into dust just as they would the worker.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. Everyone at the trailer park thinks they're going to win the lottery any day now...
... think of all the nice shoes they will be able to afford them to cover up all those self inflicted bullet wounds on their feet.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. FTW!
:rofl:

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #62
86. Ain't them I'm talking about.

Sure, there is that sort of delusion, pathetic as it seems, but it is no different than the small business owners who see themselves as of the same breed as Carnegie. I believe this type makes up the core of the TBs. They do have an often legitimate gripe, in many localities taxes and fees do fall heavily upon them, what they fail to see is that their economic betters with whom they most identify are not so afflicted, get all kinds of breaks and goodies, the result of their economic muscle. Eventually many of them will see which side they are on.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. IDENTIFY RECS AND UNRECS!
Why not? Lets see who has voted and what that vote is. Just like at DKOS.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
39. I would vote for identifying RECs and UNRECs in a heartbeat.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
79. Me too.
Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 05:06 AM by Enthusiast
I have unrecommended threads that I felt were way wrong headed. Nothing wrong with it. Just own up to it.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
43. Probably would reveal some hit and run freeps who don't want to read the truth.
"Yew means them rich's been LYIN' t'us? Heads . . . about . . . tew . . . . epxlode . . ."
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #43
84. It would probably reveal much more than that. This world isn't just black and white.
Neither is DU.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. wow...EXCELLENT post-I'm bookmarking!
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I am as well - geat work
:patriot: :thumbsup: + :rec:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. Actually a large percentage of the rich have inherited money and have done
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 08:15 AM by old mark
little or nothing to earn it...and oppose any social program to help those who have nothing.

BUT....many are people who own small businsses and choose to live modestly. THE majority of NEW millionaires in the US are people who have family incomes of around $130,000 per year, and do not spend most of it...NOT the flamboyant people who spend all their money on appearing rich.

Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html


mark
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. until their world turns upside-down
....and we are there to pick up the pieces and help...
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. and your point is?
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. That not all rich people are the same , just as not all working class people
are the same.


mark
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Not really the point of the OP.
It's design to dispel the TeaHadist/CNBC/Faux notion that this country "robs from the rich and redistributes to the poor", especially under Democratic administrations. If that's the case, then why have wealthy incomes for the past 30 years skyrocketed metric tons in real dollars while the incomes of the lower 80 percentile have either gone stagnant or reduced in that same time period?

It's a class war and we're losing BIG time.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. It has ALWAYS BEEEN a class war, all I am saying is not all the "rich" fit the evil stereotype
so many people seem to have.

mark
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. Then those rich people who are not evil should have no problem paying their fair share of taxes.
Alas, I don't think the stereotype of evil rich person really has ever been applied to the type of people you were concerning yourself with, and I am sure you knew that.

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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. yeah, some "rich" are on the same side as us.
they are not the problem, and hardly anybody here is blaming them or calling for higher taxes on those people. the generally accepted cutoff for high earners in the tax debate is generally the 200-250k range, hence my confusion why you'd bring such low income into the debate.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Those you speak of aren't really the 'rich'.

Comfortable perhaps, but they do work, and that is an important distinction. They may think they are rich and identify totally with the seriously rich, foolishly believing that what applies to the rich also applies to them. But when push comes to shove they are as much fodder for the capitalist's mill as the worker. They are the petit bourgeois, and when push comes to shove they will be on our side, if they got any sense.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Correct & they aren't the ones whose taxes will be going up if the Bush cuts at the top are repealed
This is always used to obscure the facts in a debate with the right on tax cuts. The right works very hard to convince middle and working class people the tax increases will be on them.

I know one idiot RWer who makes $35,000 a year and thinks Obama will raise his taxes. He also thinks if he takes his $1200 a month SS next year (at 65) and keeps working, the taxes will mean he'll have less money than he does now.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. So what happens when we raise the taxes on the rich?
Do they just go and happily pay them to the govt? NO, they find ways to hurt the not rich i.e., if they are a business owner they layoff workers so now I lose a job because of the tax hike that the rich guy got. Maybe they don't buy that RV or new boat this year and so when that happens on a massive scale the RV and boat builders get laid off....

A defecit in the govt means simply that the govt is spending more then it is taking in. The solution seems simple enough, cut govt spending.

I think a solution may be very targeted tax increases i.e., a serious luxury tax, that way if the rich guy wants to buy a Porche or a boat then he/she really needs to feel the pain of owning such extravagance. That is one way the govt could get revenue.

Another Option that I like is for the Govt to take control of all oil production in the USA and charge people for rationed gas at a price that they can afford i.e., Rich guy pays 10k per gallon of gas, in comparison with my 40k annual income I pay $1.00 gas chits are rationed to the people through their jobs with the end goal of getting all of us off OIL faster.

Am I wrong?


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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Yes.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4055386

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/120

Businesses are taxed on PROFITS, not EXPENSES. If you have no DEMAND (which is created by people who have money to spend or who WILL spend ALL of their money their paltry wage affords them . .. like, for instance, the poor/working/middle classes), you have no business. Wealthier owners don't create jobs or lay people off because they're getting a tax hike or cut. It's a supreme disconnect the right tries to pull on the unsuspecting that you seem to have bought into. Businesses aren't taxed the same way individuals are.

The government could easily get money out of the wealthy by initiating a 0.025 percent tax on all trade transactions.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Why don't Democrat
politicians rebutt the Repukes when they say that tax hikes will cause job losses? Obama should actually come out and say it won't. The problem is it appears almost to be common sense if a company has to pay more to the govt then it in turn must either cut back on payroll or raise the cost of its products.

That is basic economics, I am not talking about multi-million dollar industries that even when they lose money they gain in write offs. I am talking about small business owners i.e. answer this question.

If you owned a small business and employed 10 people and the taxes on your business profits increased how would you handle it?

How would you handle tax increases coupled with a downturn in consumers buying your product due to recession?

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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. If the rich cannot afford to pay their taxes,

then let them get a second job working week-ends. /RadioShowFinancialAdvisers

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Well didn't Junior say working 3 jobs was real American?
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #72
80. He did. But Jr. is an idiot.
He has never worked ONE job. Born on third base he was under the impression he had hit a triple. Jr. didn't learn to speak well because the silver spoon in his mouth kept getting in the way.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Yep that's the truth!
He is still arrogant and still stupid.
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Kweli4Real Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. Well ...
that's only 100+% of the U.S. median income. That is hardly starting from scratch. And can only be considered "not that much" when compared to millionaires.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
81. I agree, old mark.
DUers like to demonize the wealthy like freepers like to demonize the Muslims. Gotta have an enemy!
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. At least our case is founded in reason.
Mark isn't talking about the wealthy, he's talking about the rich.

The wealthy don't live or play by the same rules as we have to. Bending over backwards to please them has cost this country dearly.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Like THIS editorial in my local paper
http://www.elliscountypress.com/editorials/9924-constitutional-thinking-attention-homeowners.html

-snip
To appease the nation’s workers, Congress rushed through and Cleveland signed the bill to create Labor Day. Unions went on to organize more than 50 percent of the labor force in the country, but today is only 15 percent.

Hopefully, today, we are all wiser, so instead of it being just a socialist holiday which I don’t want to celebrate, since socialism is always evil, we now recognize how important it is for all Americans to work together for our country to be successful. If you don’t feel that way, you had better wake up fast.

snip

Will you let Obama attack your home? These Democratic idiots MUST be removed from office this November for this criminal activity.

feel free to comment/rate at site...
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. like this LTTE in my local paper
http://www.leavenworthtimes.com/opinions/letters_to_the_editor/x863079978/Press-not-doing-job

"A discussion of Reaganomics might quickly bore or confuse most readers or viewers, but shouldn't people care that in 1986 the top 1 percent got 11.3 percent of the pie and in 2006 they got 22.1 percent while the bottom half got 16.7 percent in 1986 and only 12.5 percent in 2006? It was Reaganomics that made that happen. The bottom 50 percent should be able to out-vote the top 1 percent, but the bottom 50 percent get most of their information from TV.

Now my TV is inundated by ads from big business and from Americans for the prosperous (as they should properly be called) trying to defeat Carnahan, Skelton, and Moore. They certainly have the money to get their message out ­– that Moore should represent Kansans and not Pelosi."
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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. I would like to volunteer to buy them that "U"...
Great Post...the facts are easy to see and yet we have a majority of Americans right now saying that in 8 weeks they plan to vote to return the party that did ALL of this to power once more in Congress...

This - along with Obama's stump speech analogies for the Party of No - should be the democratic message. The Republicans are selling a false bill of goods (its too much spending) and the antidote to their lies is a healthy dose of facts and truth repeated over and over and over and over and cranking the volume to "11" while repeating it one more time.

I sent a link to your post to my right wing brother-in-law who LOVES to bash Democrats as being "job-killing tax and spenders"...he will of course ignore all of this, but I think I will keep a copy of these handy to keep sending to him!
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. GREED IS MY RIGHT! I WORKED HARD TO INHERIT MY MONEY!
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. More stolen wallpaper!
Love the Wheel of Fortune STFU! Thanks! :hi:
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. K and R for Hugh. His posts are always spot on.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. Great info. Recommended.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. K & R!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Haven't bookmarked a thread since last night. :)
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. The Obama lapdog liberal biased media is all over this.
Once a week on ABC there is an hour-long program focused on income inequality and worker pay. CBS has a weekly show about the state of worker pay and labor rights. NBC does a weekly hour on CEO pay and performance, spotlighting a different CEO and the board(s) they sit on or work with. Special emphasis is placed on tracking the interconnectedness of board members.

Oh, wait. None of that is on the "liberal media". Because there is no liberal media, just liars who claim that there is.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Speaking of interconnectedness of board members . . . don't know how up-to-date this is, but . .
http://www.theyrule.net/

Yeah, we need to just do like Jello said - BECOME the media. Relying on a corporate-controlled Fourth Estate is going nowhere really slow.

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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. A guide to success:
1. Use Enron-style accounting to book non-existent future "profits".
2. Hire a PR firm to publicize your miraculous performance. (CNBC is very useful for this purpose).
3. When stock prices rises, sell $50 million worth of stock.
4. Prohibit your employees from selling stock in their retirement plans.
5. When corporation collapses, retire to your estate.

If someone suggests returning to the tax rates under Ronald Reagan, scream "Marxist"!
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. And if there's ANY station that's an effective PR arm for the wealthy and the RNC . . .
. . . it's CNBC.

That list is spot on, with -

6) After the whole furshluginner mess goes "kablooey", go on (insert propaganda arm here) and with some hyper-GALL, state "No one could have predicted that this would happen . . . ." :mad:
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Luciferous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. Great information, but these people don't actually care about the facts.
My mom is friends with a right-wing nutjob teabagger (I don't know why, since they are COMPLETE opposites) and even after my mom showed her proof that she was wrong about all the bullshit she's been spewing, she STILL won't believe that it's wrong.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. It's funny watching the videos of TeaLamers being interviewed.
Even when confronted with the facts, they all hightail-it outta there or get all angry, like their worlds will crumble at any notion that Faux lied to them. "Yew mean I'm not RIGHT? AH refuses to believe that!!"
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
30. major kick
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. The more I see of "success" the more I realize
that most of it's already punishable by law, the laws just weren't being enforced. Use the tax code to punish it? Sure why not.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Exactly. Why not indeed?
After all, it's not like, say, the SEC was asleep at the wheel throughout the entire Bewsh Administration, were they? :think:
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
73. During cheney*/bush* the analysis and enforcement arms of the SEC were pared down....
...as much as possible to make the "climate" as corporate-friendly as possible. Slowly the number of accountants, analysts and attorneys at the SEC is rising.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
33. Bookmark this thread.
Good stuff.
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Jankyn Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
34. Kick and Rec...
...because income inequality is the BIG issue that no one will discuss in the U.S. Instead, so many Americans (even some who would describe themselves as "liberals," as if that word had any meaning these days) continue to believe that somehow, some way, they will join the ranks of the super-rich and therefore need to support the continued transfer of wealth.

It's the ugly legacy of Horatio Alger.

Then there's the way that fear of the left has been inculcated into Americans (the "Red Scare" did its work, because people are still scared of anything other than unrestrained capitalism).

I'm reading Thomas Geoghegan's Were You Born on the Wrong Continent? right now, and it's pretty revealing. For instance, Germany (which had to absorb the terrible poverty of East Germany only 20 years ago) still manages to have lower levels of poverty overall, and among children and the elderly, than we do--along with free education, national health care, guaranteed retirement, plenty of vacations and no national debt. Even the rich like it; it makes the community so much safer and more livable.

But Americans will never go for that. Instead, the super-rich will wall themselves off from the rest of us, and the middle- and working-classes will continue to tear themselves apart, while the poor will just rot. It's the American way.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. +1
I've been meaning to read that book.

Also, what happens to countries that follow American economic practices (U.K., Iceland and Latvia, for example)? That is, turn all their shit over to speculators/finance and put production/manufacturing on the back burner or send it overseas?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
35. KBR
No pun intended. ;)
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
38. The facts and figures don't lie: the republican tax cuts and wealth redistribution have
only benefited the most wealthy among us. The gains for the top 2% should be criminal.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
40. K & R nt
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R n/t
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. I have a question...
I really don't understand, the Repugs say that Small business will incur a tax hike if you roll back the Bush tax cuts. If small business pay taxes at the individual rate on their income like the Repugs say they do, then I can see how even a very small business lets say 5-10 employees at a franchise would be hurt by this. The business may take in 500k - 1 mil per year but after salaries, overhead, rent, utilites etc the owner of that business is obviously not becoming rich by any means.

I mean again don't flame me I am ignorant to the facts of small business but shouldn't we be fighting for a rewrite of the tax code so that business could be excluded from any increases in taxes especially during these trying economic times. If the goal is for the private sector to create jobs there must be some incentives.... otherwise the unemployment rate will never go down.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Why should people be dependent upon capitalists?

We do all the work and they rip us off then threaten us with destitution if we dare complain or try to better our lot through collective action.

Fuck them, take the means of production from them, we can do just fine without the parasites.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. I was being serious...
What type of system are you advocating? Obviously at its core this is a capitalist country, I don't think there is really any chance to change that at least there aren't any polticians advocating the destruction of the capitalist model, that I know of? Enlighten me please.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #57
87. And I am serious as a heart attack.

What do you mean, "at it's core this is a capitalist country"? Is it genetic or something? Or is it a historical artifact, a system of production which insured the domination of one class, the owners. Ain't nothing writ in stone, history marches on.

We do not wait upon the political class, they are servants of the owners. Progress can only be made through the solidarity of the working class, which is all of us except the owners, developing a movement and program for our purposes, number one of which is to get the capitalist owners off of our backs.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. Businesses, like individuals, are taxed on net income.
That is, their Federal tax is based on the amount of money they make AFTER deducting the costs of doing business, like paying employees, salaries, rents, and other overhead.

This has resulted in the delicious situation of gigantic businesses being able to buy lawyers and accountants clever enough to prove that they "didn't make any money" in spite of having paid out huge shareholder dividends, obscene executive salaries, outrageous board compensation, and large amounts of cash mysteriously vanishing into offshore accounts, foreign subsidiaries, and other boondoggles. Smaller businesses (like mine, and like my husband's) must perforce actually report what it costs us to do business and how much money we make and pay taxes on the difference.

I'm fine with that. If we ever make enough money to pop into a higher bracket it will be partly because we live in a country that provides all kinds of infrastructure and makes it possible for lots of people to afford to use our services, and I'm fine with paying for that, too.

What chaps MY butt as a small business person is the thought of those corporate lawyers sitting around thinking up more and weirder ways to hide the vast profits they are making so they don't have to pay legitimate taxes.

Thanks for asking, though. Your concern is appreciated.

dryly,
Bright
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Ahhh OK...
See I thought you got taxed on what your business made before you paid off all your overhead costs... IOW in my mind a small business owner that had maybe 5-10 employees that were each making 35k per year or there about and the business was taking in say 700k per year so I thought that the govt taxed the 700K then the owner paied all his overhead and whatever was left was his income....

thats why I believed that increasing the tax burden on these people would result in them reducing their employees... or raising their costs.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. Any business owner who whines about Federal revenue taxes "forcing them" to lay off employees...
...is, to put it politely, blowing smoke. The principal reasons most businesses lay off employees come in three categories: One legitimate, one semi-legitimate, and one despicable.

Legitimate:
Events or conditions occur that have a comparatively sudden impact on the demand for the product or service provided by the business. Such decreases in demand may be temporary or permanent, but in any case they are usually a legitimate reason for the business to cut back in production and hence usually in the labor force.

Semi-legitimate:
The business owner(s) or manager(s) either planned poorly, lost track of what they were doing, or otherwise operated on a set of bad assumptions, the most common one being that they could offer their product at a certain price point that would yield an adequate revenue stream to cover overhead plus a reasonable return to owners/stockholders. At that point they either have to change the equation or go out of business. There are only two ways to change the equation: 1. Change the cost of the product, i.e., charge more to the customer; or 2. Change the cost of production, i.e., use cheaper materials, move to a more efficient or cheaper production process, which often involves laying off the least productive part of your labor force. Sometimes this is reasonable, sometimes it borders on the third category:

Despicable:
This is sheer greed. This is when you are in business ONLY to make as much money as you can, as fast as you can, and when the margins look like they might start dropping, you get out. You sell the business to a sucker, you put out an IPO, realize YOUR holdings, and walk, or otherwise pursue some form of sleazy manipulation. This frequently involves a shell game of making your margins LOOK extremely impressive over a short period. The best way to do that is to cut the mythical "fat" and suddenly decrease operating costs, making for a great-looking bottom line while you grab your swag and get out.

Those are essentially the only three reasons businesses lay off employees. Business net revenue taxes have diddly to do with it. Business people who bitch about taxes are usually bitching, not about Federal revenue taxes, but about regressive sales taxes that increase their production costs by increasing the costs of materials, etc. If you hear a business owner whining about the income taxes their business pays, it is EXACTLY THE SAME as hearing anyone complain about their personal income taxes. Maybe the net that they realize from the business, after revenue taxation, doesn't seem like enough to justify the work involved in running the business that they own. And that's a legitimate gripe and maybe a reason to sell or close the business, but not a reason to take it out on the employees and blame the taxes.

helpfully,
Bright
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. K&R!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
48. "You Tax-hiking SOSHULISTS just want to punish SUCCESS!!"
no... it's the greed stupid!
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. It absolutely amazes me that Obama has to be apologetic to these very kinds of cretins in his speech
Just today, when he was speaking in Parma, OH, the CNBC ticker read (and I'm paraphrasing):

"Obama: We're not out to penalize the well-to-do"

You know, why should he CATER to that element?

If the TeaHadists cannot put two and two together when it comes to Failure Fratster's Reagan Redux stupidity and see that low taxes on the rich does not translate into jobs, then that's not OUR problem, it's THEIRS. WE did not build the TeaHadists without intelligence or common sense . . . genetics did that.

Or worse yet are the TeaDopeaddicts who have intelligence but refute hard data to believe a cornpone story.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #55
83. In a Way He is Legitimizing Their False Concerns which is a No-No
if it had truth then that would be different, but this is plain stupid. I think he listens to too many who have their heads in-the-sand.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
49. Tall glass of shut up juice right here
Excellent compilation, thanks for posting.

I'm glad people are finally catching on to what's really happening with the economy. Well, at least on one side of the political spectrum.
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Jim_Shorts Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
50. To use the language of the stockbroker,
our needy unemployed would be cared for when,as,and if some fairy god mother should happen on the scene. -F.D.R.

I voted for and support Obama but the truth is he couldn't carry F.D.R.'s jockstrap. If you listen to his speeches you will see what we're missing and what we've lost.

ENJOY http://millercenter.org/scripps/archive/speeches/detail/3307
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. "Brawwwk!! Polly want a tax cut?!" They're parrots. They don't even understand what they say. nt
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
61. K&R ed
Hugh, can I borrow those charts, put together as you have?

I'd posted some similar stats on other boards. I really like the way you've indisputably illustrated the truth about economics in the USA.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. Spread it far and wide.
And get an umbrella, because there'll be heads explod . . . oh who the hell am I kidding? The 'bags will just deny it, like they do everything else that doesn't fit in with their amazing technicolor dreamworld.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Hugh, there are Democrats who deny the economic facts.
Thank you for saying I can copy this.*hug* I have tried to wake people up.

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R, now at three-digit goodness!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. K&R
bookmarked. I like the ideas of General Strikes and sit ins in the major media places, "tell the truth or we ain't leaving" kind of stuff...
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
67. If Facts Could Cure Ignorance...
There would not be ignorance.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. K&R, right-click and save
:woohoo:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
76. You are on to us!
LOL!
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Come on, I always thought magical debt faeries took care of the bill!
POOF! All gone.

At least that's what conservaturds think.

"Ah lurves mah TAX CUT!!!"
"You DO know that's not free money, right? You DO know that's a United States loan with interest, right?"
"Just SHUT UP you stupd fascist nazi commie LIB . . . and . . . and . .. SHUT up . . . and stuff . ."

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
78. K&R

Take it back to 60%!
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